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By Big Tent Democrat

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    Thanks (5.00 / 4) (#2)
    by carolyn13 on Fri Feb 22, 2008 at 10:50:56 AM EST
    Jeralyn and BTD, you two are heroes. I can't imagine how hard it must be behind the scenes here to keep the threads readable. I'm in awe of your dedication and commitment to reasoned debate. Thanks.

    All credit to Jeralyn (5.00 / 3) (#6)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Feb 22, 2008 at 11:02:04 AM EST
    As anyone familiar with my blogging past knows, that is not my insitnct or even inclination.

    I am a foul mouthed political brawler.

    Just ask Page.

    Parent

    LOL (5.00 / 3) (#7)
    by Plutonium Page on Fri Feb 22, 2008 at 11:03:20 AM EST
    @#$%@#$%!!!

    Heh.

    I can teach you how to swear in Dutch now, if you want.


    Parent

    It would get past the TL censors (none / 0) (#10)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Feb 22, 2008 at 11:05:22 AM EST
    Oh, cool! (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by Plutonium Page on Fri Feb 22, 2008 at 11:07:43 AM EST
    Kidding, I won't ever tell anyone "krijg de kolere".

    (Amsterdammers say "get cholera" instead of "f you".  Sort of a comment on history, sanitation and how the canals used to be, ugh.)

    Parent

    Hillarious... (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by Stellaaa on Fri Feb 22, 2008 at 11:11:44 AM EST
    I guess it's all the dikes.  

    Parent
    Dikes.... (none / 0) (#36)
    by kdog on Fri Feb 22, 2008 at 01:40:47 PM EST
    Easy now Stella...the PC Police are watching:)

    Parent
    I got stuck (none / 0) (#23)
    by Kathy on Fri Feb 22, 2008 at 11:33:42 AM EST
    saying that I would pay my rent...or at least thinking that's what I said...

    "Ik wil de hoer graag betalen"


    Parent

    You have to admit (none / 0) (#11)
    by Stellaaa on Fri Feb 22, 2008 at 11:05:22 AM EST
    The prohibition makes us better people all around.  

    Parent
    Sure (5.00 / 3) (#13)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Feb 22, 2008 at 11:05:54 AM EST
    But I sure do miss my brawls . . .

    Parent
    yes (none / 0) (#3)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Feb 22, 2008 at 10:57:05 AM EST
    I said this in the last thread but it is worth repeating

    Parent
    oh yes, indeed (none / 0) (#5)
    by Plutonium Page on Fri Feb 22, 2008 at 11:00:24 AM EST
    And the link is cool :-)

    Parent
    From the obscure news file... (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by Plutonium Page on Fri Feb 22, 2008 at 10:59:05 AM EST
    ... Obama wins the vote of Dems Abroad in the Netherlands.

    This is like the "what the human says and what the dog hears" Far Side comic, so just go "ja ja ja ja ja" with the following:

    De gewezen first lady haalde 32,6 procent van de stemmen tegen 65,1 procent voor Obama.

    Loosely translated, that says that Obama beat Clinton 65.1% to 32.6%.

    And:

    Meer dan 22.000 democraten in 164 landen brachten hun stem uit in de voorverkiezingen. van hen steunde 65,6 procent Obama en 32,7 procent Hillary Clinton.

    More than 22,000 Democrats in 164 countries voted, and it was 65.6% Obama to 32.7% Clinton.

    Now, in English:

    Obama Wins Global Primary

    Scroll down to see what it means in terms of delegates, etc.

    I was in my home state of NM for Super Tuesday, so I voted there.  Didn't vote in the Global Primary, in other words.

    I go to Europe (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by Stellaaa on Fri Feb 22, 2008 at 11:09:52 AM EST
    only to find Euro Obama bots.  What in heavens name is going on?  Last night German TV Letterman type show, this guys says:  We know Clinton would make the better president, but Obama would be more fun.  Applause.  Ahhh....screaming all the way.  

    Oh good gawd (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by Plutonium Page on Fri Feb 22, 2008 at 11:21:21 AM EST
    At least there is some criticism out there... did you see this article in Der Spiegel?  I know very little German, but the title is "The Messiah Factor:  Longing for a new America".  

    And de Volkskrant (the best Dutch newspaper) has had similar stuff (charisma vs. substance), as well as sneaky humor.

    But we did go out for a few beers the other night with my husband's best friend, who said "I like Obama.  He's for change."  So I said "change of what?  Which policies of his do you like?"  And he couldn't answer my question.  He laughed, though, and acknowledged that I'd made a point.  He also couldn't articulate why he "hates" Hillary Clinton, except she "takes money from lobbyists".

    ARGH.  He's a smart guy, but he totally fell for the talking points.

    Parent

    I will get you the links later (none / 0) (#29)
    by Stellaaa on Fri Feb 22, 2008 at 11:50:39 AM EST
    There is a guy who writes for Speigel who is very critical of Obama.  Apparently, in the comment sections in German, he is getting flamed like you would not believe.  This is a real veteran correspondent.  Amazing.  

    Parent
    I wondered about that and (none / 0) (#19)
    by oculus on Fri Feb 22, 2008 at 11:17:39 AM EST
    haven't been getting any first hand info from my kid in Ireland, who could have voted in a pub, but I haven't heard if she did.  

    Parent
    I guess this would not be a story (none / 0) (#1)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Feb 22, 2008 at 10:35:10 AM EST
    if they were winning.
    still it seems pretty dumb.

    Clinton campaign spending worries supporters
    Can struggles be traced to lavish spending on accommodations, advisers?

    Yup (none / 0) (#25)
    by muffie on Fri Feb 22, 2008 at 11:44:17 AM EST
    I agreed with the quote at the end:

    [T]hese budgetary post-mortems tend to follow a familiar pattern; winners are by definition smart, and losers are dumb and wasteful.

    I suspect Hillary can pretty easily pay off another $5 million loan to her campaign, so its not too big a deal for now.  By the way, is it the case that the campaign finance laws view repayment of loans for a primary as being under the same monetary limits as all primary contributions?  I assume so, as otherwise that's a pretty massive loophole.  But I do seem to recall that there's essentially no time limit for repaying the debts.


    Parent

    BZ (none / 0) (#8)
    by Wile ECoyote on Fri Feb 22, 2008 at 11:03:23 AM EST
    to the crew of the Lake Erie for the excellent shot the other night.  

    Well, yes, they succeeded (none / 0) (#12)
    by Plutonium Page on Fri Feb 22, 2008 at 11:05:45 AM EST
    But you have to think beyond that to the repercussions.

    Parent
    CNN delegate Math (none / 0) (#9)
    by Stellaaa on Fri Feb 22, 2008 at 11:04:29 AM EST
    Wait a minute...it's not a slam dunk Mr. Obama...
    video
    Ahh, why is this not true?  why is he the alleged winner?  

    I think we all agree (none / 0) (#14)
    by NJDem on Fri Feb 22, 2008 at 11:06:58 AM EST
    that we don't like Penn and think he's way overpaid.

    But I wonder if this NYT 'hit job' only sets up an article about BO's spending, or a more interesting article on where he gets his money from.  I know he has 1 million new donors, and I'm not denigrating his enthusiastic support.  But there have been stories (though possibly unconfirmed?) that he's got GOP money behind him.  

    Frankly I wouldn't be surprised.  Anything to stop the Clintons, right?

    I thought the GOP was licking their chops (none / 0) (#24)
    by Joike on Fri Feb 22, 2008 at 11:42:11 AM EST
    hoping to face Clinton in the GE.

    They could run their "Hillary wants to kill your doctors" nonsense.  Bush wants OBGYNs to be able to practice their love with women.

    Parent

    Campaign managers get %s (none / 0) (#26)
    by Cream City on Fri Feb 22, 2008 at 11:47:41 AM EST
    of ad expenditures, so with outlays 4 times as much by Axelrod, I'd find it interesting to see what his real bottom-line take will be, too.

    Parent
    Renzi Indictment (none / 0) (#18)
    by Joike on Fri Feb 22, 2008 at 11:16:54 AM EST
    Rep. Renzi (R-AZ) gets indicted for a laundry list of bad acts.  Standard operating procedure for a GOP Congressman.

    Does he have any connection to McCain?

    If so, how quickly does McCain eject Renzi from the Straight Talk Express?

    Does McCain realize that his Express is heading off the rails?  At least, Limbaugh's on his side now.

    He is AZ co-chair of McCain campaign. (none / 0) (#20)
    by oculus on Fri Feb 22, 2008 at 11:18:25 AM EST
    but Huff Post has him as just "co-chairman."  Rather deceptive.

    Parent
    Huff Post is pretty lame with (none / 0) (#28)
    by Joike on Fri Feb 22, 2008 at 11:50:02 AM EST
    their headlines.  They'll have these salacious headlines then when you read the article, it's full of a lot of nothing.

    Parent
    Had news orgs previously reported (none / 0) (#22)
    by Josey on Fri Feb 22, 2008 at 11:24:50 AM EST
    Renzi was under investigation?
    Or is this all new.


    Parent
    Snow Day and Elections (none / 0) (#27)
    by Lora on Fri Feb 22, 2008 at 11:49:12 AM EST
    I'm enjoying a snow day here with a little time to kill, so I will return to my favorite (and most important, in my opinion) topic: election integrity.

    For those of you who think our election process, particularly with regard to electronic voting, is just fine, let me ask you a few questions:

    1. How do you think the monumental and ever-growing number of errors, discrepancies, glitches, break-downs, and anomalies reported with e-voting affect our ability to hold a fair and accurate election?

    2. How can we verify election results on machines that have no original hard-copy back-up that the voter filled out?

    3. Given an original hard-copy back-up, how can we verify election results without an impeccable chain of custody and an accurate audit with a fully transparent process and citizen oversight?

    4.  Why do you think so many people in high places, repubs AND dems, spend so much time assuring us there is nothing wrong with our election system without any facts to back them up?

    Just wondering.

    Clearly, the electronic voting machines are (5.00 / 1) (#30)
    by Joike on Fri Feb 22, 2008 at 12:11:43 PM EST
    subject to hackery and abuse.  Paper receipts offer some form of protection.

    In the larger sense, large scale democracy is always subject to abuse.

    The system relies on a large number of volunteers to run the preceincts and tabulate the votes.  In large part, we rely on the good faith of the volunteers, but both major parties typically have their own volunteers keeping an eye out.

    The real failures occur at the state level where legislatures discriminate against poorer districts when it comes to apportioning equipment.

    If states were serious about election fairness, we'd see a lot more investment in equipment for all precincts.

    You get a lot of games being played by State office holders throwing names off voting lists for no good reason.  We've had the US Justice Dept ginning up "voter fraud" cases claiming it an epidemic when intentional voter fraud is extremely rare not counting Ann Coulter's transgression.

    Voter intimidation is a very real problem.  Don't need to worry about counting the votes of people you've scared away from the ballot box.

    I'm more worried about the shenanigans that occur before the voting takes place then counting the ballots afterward.

    Look at the recent acquital of that guy Tobin who, as part of the GOP plan, lead the efforts to block Democratic voting efforts in New Hampshire in a close election in '02.  He may be re-tried, but he may get off despite the plaine evidence of wrond-doing.

    This is the crap that thwarts democracy.  It's a game to these people.  They feel good about depriving others of the right to vote if it helps their side win.

    Parent

    Both are worthy of attention (none / 0) (#31)
    by Lora on Fri Feb 22, 2008 at 12:22:13 PM EST
    I'm more worried about the shenanigans that occur before the voting takes place then counting the ballots afterward.

    They are just as important, but not more important, I believe.  A) Being able to exercise the right to vote in the first place, and B) having your vote counted as you intended are the two parts of our election process.  One without the other is meaningless.

    This is the crap that thwarts democracy.  It's a game to these people.  They feel good about depriving others of the right to vote if it helps their side win.

    I agree.  I would add that part of their game is to deprive us of the right to ascertain whether or not our vote was counted.

    Parent

    Daily Texan endorses Clinton (none / 0) (#32)
    by RalphB on Fri Feb 22, 2008 at 12:26:15 PM EST
    UT student newspaper and it's a pretty good editorial as well.  FWIW

    link

    Here's one for the girls. (none / 0) (#33)
    by carolyn13 on Fri Feb 22, 2008 at 01:00:24 PM EST
    Susan Wood posts today on Taylor Marsh.

    Good info, I bookmarked the link (none / 0) (#45)
    by Cream City on Fri Feb 22, 2008 at 03:19:07 PM EST
    and thank you for alerting us to that endorsement -- that is the sort of endorsement that really matters.

    Parent
    "Xerox" or "Photocopy" (none / 0) (#34)
    by marcellus on Fri Feb 22, 2008 at 01:25:55 PM EST
    Which do you use?  Personally, I think this line fell flat because I haven't heard "Xerox" in the last 15 years.  I'm 31, but do other people still use this term?

    every day (none / 0) (#35)
    by Jeralyn on Fri Feb 22, 2008 at 01:39:22 PM EST
    it's what it's called -- every copier has become the "xerox machine" -- "let me go xerox this for you" -- "can you xerox this for me" -- maybe it's just lawyers, but I think everyone understands it.

    Parent
    We say copies.... (none / 0) (#37)
    by kdog on Fri Feb 22, 2008 at 01:46:31 PM EST
    in my office.

    Haven't heard xerox in awhile...I remember my elementary school teachers calling them mimeographs.

    Parent

    me too (none / 0) (#43)
    by Lora on Fri Feb 22, 2008 at 02:28:28 PM EST
    I used to love to be the one to go down to the office and get the mimeos.  Mmmmmm.  I'm probably lucky I didn't get cancer or brain damage from sniffing them.

    Parent
    Yup. Remember the sound of the machine? (none / 0) (#44)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Feb 22, 2008 at 02:39:27 PM EST
    ch ching ch ching ch ching ch ching...

    Parent
    I'm 45, and ever since my first office job (none / 0) (#39)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Feb 22, 2008 at 01:52:46 PM EST
    it's been photocopy. Only "older" people, in my experience, make "Xerox" a noun or verb.

    I believe Xerox itself had a lot to do with making sure "Xerox" remained a trademark (or something) and not a part of speech.

    Parent

    when I first heard the one-liner.

    Parent
    Check this out on Google Earth (none / 0) (#41)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Feb 22, 2008 at 01:56:56 PM EST
    Go to Google Earth, go to "Fly to," enter: 45 24'29.28"N, 123 0'28.35"W, click on the magnifying glass, and see what the heck's sitting in a farmer's field outside of Portland.


    Can someone give me a good (none / 0) (#46)
    by BrandingIron on Fri Feb 22, 2008 at 07:46:25 PM EST
    link to the Ayers connection?  I know little about the whole Obama-Ayers thing or what even it was in the first place.  I'd like to read up.  Thanks.