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Obama Wins Virginia

By Big Tent Democrat

All the networks call it. NBC says the exit polls had the following demo breakdowns, but CNN has different exit poll results:

Clinton win whites 52-48, white women 56-42. Obama wins white men 55-45. African Americans were 29% of the vote. Assuming Obama takes 80% [CNN says Obama took 90%] of that vote, I calculate Obama carrying 62% of the vote.

Update (TL): The county/geographic map is here. Tim Russert says 20% of voters were Independent and 8% were Republcans who crossed over to vote in the primary. More than 70% of these voters went for Obama -- The cross-over candidate. All these figures are exit poll results. Russert says Obama will tout this as a sign of his electability in November, that he can win Republicans and Independents. I take it as another sign he's a compromiser and not a fighter for a progressive agenda.

Update [2008-2-12 20:17:12 by Big Tent Democrat]: Obama Wins DC says NBC.

Update [2008-2-12 20:41:36 by Big Tent Democrat]: Chuck Todd projects delegate split as 49 to 52 for Obama and 34 to 31 for Clitnon. From 15 to 21 delegate gain for Obama.

Update (TL): Comments closing here, you can continue discussion of tonight's primaries here.

< Joseph Wilson: Why Obama's Lacking in Foreign Policy Affairs | Demographics of Virginia Counties Won by Hillary >
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  • Display: Sort:
    Came from behind! (5.00 / 1) (#87)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 06:54:17 PM EST
    I find it interesting when Obama supporters point out that Obama was way behind in the Potomac states polls in October, but CAME from BEHIND to win in a huge way.

    It's as if his name recognition equalled Hillary's back then and he just gained popularity in the last few months due to his excellent policies.

    However, when anyone points out that he lost Florida?  Well, that was due to lack of name recognition.

    As the public (none / 0) (#99)
    by doordiedem0crat on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 07:01:22 PM EST
    becomes more aware about Barack, the better the turn out for him. If Florida or Michigan re-voted. Hillary may not have the delegate count.

    [ Parent ]
    Independents are scary! (1.00 / 1) (#164)
    by dmfox on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 07:29:38 PM EST
    The county/geographic map is here. Tim Russert says 20% of voters were Independent and 8% were Republcans who crossed over to vote in the primary. More than 70% of these voters went for Obama -- The cross-over candidate. All these figures are exit poll results. Russert says Obama will tout this as a sign of his electability in November, that he can win Republicans and Independents. I take it as another sign he's a compromiser and not a fighter for a progressive agenda.

    Yes BTD, inspiring independents to vote for a Democrat is a terrible thing.  You say you're a tepid Obama supporter, but smear him for positive developments like winning a lot of independent voters from John McCain.  With this kind of logic, BTD will find a loser more honorable than a winner in November, provided he wins the Northeast and California.  Nevermind the fact that Obama could get more votes than Hillary and McCain combined tonight in a red state primary.

    Bowers is also reporting that there is no difference in voting among education levels, and that Obama won the Latino vote.

    But then, I forgot, Virginia doesn't count, even though it's a primary, because independents can vote in their primary, and black people live there, and it's not a core blue state like Massachusetts.

    Keep spinning, BTD.

    Excuse me (none / 0) (#170)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 07:31:58 PM EST
    I did not write what you are attacking and you do not get to insult either Jeralyn or I at this site.

    Do it again and you will be suspended.

    [ Parent ]

    Sorry if I went a little overboard (none / 0) (#195)
    by dmfox on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 07:39:56 PM EST
    I just couldn't believe your comment that destroying McCain among independents shows something wrong with Obama's candidacy.  I found the logic baffling.  In Virginia, of all places, Obama is wiping the floor with not just Hillary, but the Republicans as well.  You think a Democrat would get excited about a candidate performing this well in a red state primary instead of baselessly smear him for it.

    Sorry to conflate your comment with the spin the Clinton campaign has put on Obama's victories at the end of my comment.  I don't usually fly off the handle like that.  I just found your observation counterintuitive to, you know, winning elections.

    [ Parent ]

    I just told you (none / 0) (#209)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 07:48:08 PM EST
    it was NOT my comment.

    [ Parent ]
    Why? (none / 0) (#177)
    by Stellaaa on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 07:34:29 PM EST
    Do tell me why does someone having a different opinion or posing some different questions upset you so? I just don't get it.

    [ Parent ]
    I just thought we were in the business of winning (none / 0) (#199)
    by dmfox on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 07:41:44 PM EST
    elections, not ripping on a candidate for convincing independents to vote for him, independents any Democrat will need in November.

    [ Parent ]
    He took 90% of AA votes. (none / 0) (#1)
    by Teresa on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 06:19:15 PM EST
    They just discussed on MSNBC that being a black candidate benefits him in a Democratic primary and it seems white men won't vote for a women.

    They pay people at MSNBC to come up with (none / 0) (#3)
    by Geekesque on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 06:21:03 PM EST
    that crap?

    [ Parent ]
    Soon you learn to turn off the TV (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by andgarden on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 06:21:55 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    my tv is off (none / 0) (#69)
    by dutchfox on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 06:46:34 PM EST
    I rely on TL!

    [ Parent ]
    SO does that (none / 0) (#8)
    by Jgarza on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 06:22:35 PM EST
    mean that white women aren't willing to vote for a black man?  Since you insist on viewing this entire election through the lens of identity politics?

    [ Parent ]
    When a candidate gets 90% of a (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by andgarden on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 06:24:08 PM EST
    particular demographic group, that's worth talking about. Not the only thing worth talking about, though.

    [ Parent ]
    Very true (none / 0) (#13)
    by BlueLakeMichigan on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 06:25:20 PM EST
    If it's true, then it's not something to be ignored, but there are so many other factors, too.

    [ Parent ]
    Well, he might get 95% in Pennsylvania (none / 0) (#14)
    by Geekesque on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 06:25:56 PM EST
    thanks to Fast Eddie.

    [ Parent ]
    "Fast Eddie" (none / 0) (#23)
    by andgarden on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 06:28:14 PM EST
    is like "Billary." Right wing BS conveniently appropriated by Obama supporters.

    And frankly, everyone knows Obama is going to win the black vote in PA.

    [ Parent ]

    That's a little oversensitive. (none / 0) (#39)
    by Geekesque on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 06:35:05 PM EST
    Corzine 'blessed' to be alive; Rendell still 'Fast Eddie'

    Calling a guy known for violating the speed limit while driving "Fast Eddie" hardly seems like a vicious slur.

    The newspaper reported his Cadillac limousine was clocked at 100 mph nine times by troopers since November.


    [ Parent ]

    "fast Eddie" goes back before that (none / 0) (#43)
    by andgarden on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 06:36:34 PM EST
    and was coined, if I'm not mistaken, by Michael Smerconish.

    [ Parent ]
    Used by the NY Times: (none / 0) (#50)
    by Geekesque on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 06:39:15 PM EST
    THE 2004 CAMPAIGN: THE PENNSYLVANIA GOVERNOR; In 'Fast Eddie,' Kerry Has Statehouse Ally

    I would concede that it's not a turn of phrase meant to flatter him, but that was kinda my point.

    Also, dude's a speed demon.  

    [ Parent ]

    Ah, Obama Supporters (none / 0) (#67)
    by BDB on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 06:46:00 PM EST
    Never shy to insult other democrats using Republican smears.  Feel the unity.

    [ Parent ]
    BDB (none / 0) (#165)
    by auntmo on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 07:30:31 PM EST
    Yes. They now  sound  like   freepers.

    [ Parent ]
    Come on... (none / 0) (#183)
    by mindfulmission on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 07:35:43 PM EST
    .. Freepers?  Are you serious?

    This is getting pretty ridiculous.

    Obama supporters allegedly sound like freepers.

    Obama is no a George W. Bush clone.  Or a Clarence Thomas Clone.  

    You all are hilarious.  

    [ Parent ]

    ohh i'm talking about (none / 0) (#16)
    by Jgarza on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 06:26:44 PM EST
    white men won't vote for a woman meme because they voted for Barack.

    [ Parent ]
    Pride not prejudice Jgarza. (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by Teresa on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 06:24:19 PM EST
    I was just stating what they said. It doesn't bother me or surprise me.

    [ Parent ]
    Will you Obama supporters ENJOY (none / 0) (#27)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 06:29:04 PM EST
    your big win instead of looking for fights at every turn?

    [ Parent ]
    Be fair... (none / 0) (#48)
    by ROK on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 06:38:27 PM EST
    Obama fans are very guarded on this site and for good cause. Every win is somehow diminished and an excuse for the loss is offered.

    It was a good win for Obama, but he still has an uphill battle.

    [ Parent ]

    I call them as I see them (none / 0) (#81)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 06:50:59 PM EST
    If that seems like diminishing, then so be it.

    [ Parent ]
    electability? (none / 0) (#94)
    by A DC Wonk on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 06:58:06 PM EST
    You wrote:
    Russert says Obama will tout this as a sign of his electability in November, that he can win Republicans and Independents. I take it as another sign he's a compromiser and not a fighter for a progressive agenda.

    Question: are they mutually exclusive?  I notice that you did not say that this doesn't point to his electability.

    And, frankly, electability means a lot to me.  Four more years of a GOP Prez will continue to exacerbate permanent damage being done to the US (budget, war, soc security, supreme court picks, etc etc.)

    I'll take someone who's a bit less than my ideal for an assured victory any day.

    So, again: while it says to you that he's not a fighter (and that's debatable), does it not also mean that he can capture what might be the crucial so-called independent vote?

    [ Parent ]

    I did not write that (none / 0) (#104)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 07:03:06 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Today (none / 0) (#169)
    by Bob In Pacifica on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 07:31:56 PM EST
    Clinton missed the fight.

    [ Parent ]
    Electability Is a Fool's Game (none / 0) (#208)
    by BDB on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 07:46:31 PM EST
    Neither Clinton nor Obama nor McCain is unelectable, they are all within the mainstream of American political discourse.  Of the three, McCain is probably furthest outside of it, but this goes unremarked by the MSM and so it doesn't matter.

    Electability is created by talking heads to get you to care what they think and to avoid talking about policy.  There's no there there.

    More importantly, Democrats suck at predicting electability because electability requires you to predict what will happen in November 2008 after a long general election campaign.  I don't even know if Obama or Clinton will win Texas in a couple weeks, much less what either will look like by November 2008.  There are too many things that can happen in a campaign and in the world.

    Remember the last candidate nominated for his "electability" was John Kerry.  Now, in retrospect, it was easy to see why he'd be a bad candidate.  Can't put a sentence together without immediately trying to rewrite it in the next breath.  A 20 year voting record in the Senate to pick through.  Instead, all we heard from the media was that Democrats were soft on terror and we needed a war hero.  

    Now, maybe Kerry was the most electable and Dean or Clark would've been worse.  We don't know and will never know.

    What I do know is the very thing the media convinced so many Dems made Kerry electable - his Vietnam war hero status - contributed to his loss.  Nobody foresaw that the GOP would smear him on that or that he'd do such a crappy job responding to it.

    I believe either Clinton or Obama will become the next president of the U.S.   But I also believe either have the capacity to lose to John McCain if things go wrong in the campaign.  If that happens, I can easily hear Democrats say

    "I can't believe we nominated a black guy with only two years of Senate experience, who had never faced a serious GOP opponent,  who used squishy rhetoric about change that let the GOP define him, and who depended on winning independents from John McCain.  What were we thinking?"

    And I can hear

    "I can't believe we ran a woman in the middle of a war and one who went in with high negatives and united the Republican base and who the mainstream media hates.  What were we thinking?"

    And then, of course, we'll all say in unison, "this time I'm voting for someone who is electable, that's the most important thing!"

    [ Parent ]

    Excellent analysis (none / 0) (#82)
    by doordiedem0crat on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 06:51:24 PM EST
    Review past blog posts for reference.

    Obama will need a large margin victory in the expectations game. Very important.


    [ Parent ]

    before I bow to O (none / 0) (#211)
    by thereyougo on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 07:57:11 PM EST
    I'm going to have to see him take the
    big states. Ohio Texas Penna.

    Its almost as if this guy, who I'm unimpressed with is talking it up, with JFK speechwriters to make him sound like he's a throwback to Camelot of all things, crazy isn't it? I mean please. Reminds me of the GWB hype . All the catchy phrases, the empty promises. I'm not convinced about him,but give him the benefit, since he's the underdog.

    White men voting for Obama means that this group sees AfroAms successes in sports (baseball, basketball,golf,tennis,), entertainment ( all the wrap stars) and they think the  presidency is a natural progression of that appeal. Which is  a  good sign that the US has come a long way in race relations, and I'm happy to see it.                    
    But if he gets the nom. Karl Rove is going to wail on him with everything he's got.Open up the pearly gates because as bad as McCain is they don't want to pull out the troops in Iraq. Not after spending trillions of borrowed money. And race, religion, guns and Jesus, with a little machine malfunction will be called on once again to decide it for the Rs.

    I hope I'm wrong.


    [ Parent ]

    Obama supporters (none / 0) (#172)
    by auntmo on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 07:32:45 PM EST
    Wow,  BTD,  I  was  beginning  to  think you  hadn't  noticed  how  eagerly  they start  fights.  

    My  apologies.

    [ Parent ]

    Wha? I thought the MCM said talking about (none / 0) (#78)
    by jawbone on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 06:49:46 PM EST
    Blacks voting for Obama and someone talking about it meant the speaker was being "racist" or "racial." You know, like that Bill Clinton racist guy?

    (Sarcasm alert)

    Damn, guess being an MCMer (member of the Mainstream Corporate Media) is just like being a Rethug: IOKIYAMCMer.

    [ Parent ]

    I got around 61% to 38-39%. (none / 0) (#2)
    by Geekesque on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 06:20:11 PM EST
    Maryland will be even worse.

    The delegate counts will be interesting.  

    The VA loss is probably his most impressive performance of them all--a primary in a decent-sized purple state.

    No way for Clinton to spin this one.

    Geek, when you get 90% of 29% as a (3.00 / 2) (#7)
    by Teresa on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 06:22:12 PM EST
    beginning, you'd have to do well. And white men don't want to vote for HC obviously.

    [ Parent ]
    If you are a Clinton supporter, (none / 0) (#10)
    by independent voter on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 06:24:16 PM EST
    you better hope it is not true. (that white men don't want to vote for HC obviously)

    [ Parent ]
    In total (none / 0) (#15)
    by Stellaaa on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 06:26:03 PM EST
    more women vote.

    [ Parent ]
    in most dem primaries (none / 0) (#22)
    by Jgarza on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 06:28:11 PM EST
    but that is not the case in a general, if white men really won't vote for her, she can't win.

    [ Parent ]
    True in general elections too (none / 0) (#38)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 06:34:28 PM EST
    Here's the 2004 exit poll for you:

    2004 exit poll link

    [ Parent ]

    No, more women, (none / 0) (#134)
    by echinopsia on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 07:16:29 PM EST
    as in more than half of the electorate, and they vote in higher percentages than men.

    Women voters in the U.S.

    IOW, if we got together behind a candidate every time, we'd win every time. Scary, huh?


    [ Parent ]

    Yes, black people and men discriminate, but (none / 0) (#12)
    by Geekesque on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 06:24:30 PM EST
    white women vote on the issues.

    Lame spin.

    [ Parent ]

    Like I said, it is pride not prejudice on (none / 0) (#18)
    by Teresa on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 06:27:07 PM EST
    AA's and women (I hope). Plus white men voted for Bush over Kerry so you know they'll vote McCain over Clinton.

    [ Parent ]
    But we (none / 0) (#24)
    by BlueLakeMichigan on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 06:28:36 PM EST
    Gotta try to get a large chunk of that vote. I think either candidate can make it happen, but somehow it has to happen.

    [ Parent ]
    Do you have ANY proof that white men (none / 0) (#26)
    by Geekesque on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 06:29:03 PM EST
    voted for Obama due to gender-related reasons moreso than white women voted for Clinton out of gender and race-related reasons?

    [ Parent ]
    I actually do not like the tone (none / 0) (#29)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 06:30:14 PM EST
    of this discussion.

    Both of you calm down or I close this comments thread.

    [ Parent ]

    No, Geek. I was just saying what they said (none / 0) (#52)
    by Teresa on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 06:39:34 PM EST
    on TV. I think a lot of people of all races love Obama including all of my family in SC. I didn't mean to make anyone angry. I just thought it was an unusual remark on TV is all. I will just leave rather than upset you guys anymore.

    [ Parent ]
    Be gracious (none / 0) (#20)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 06:28:09 PM EST
    I am sure Teresa did not say that.

    [ Parent ]
    Of course I didn't. I was just telling you what (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by Teresa on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 06:32:21 PM EST
    they were discussing on TV. They also discussed Gov. Rendell's statement and said what he said is true but he shouldn't have said it.

    I don't blame AA voters for voting for a special candidate with a great chance of winning anymore than I do women for voting for a pretty awesome woman.

    [ Parent ]

    Well, the suggestion that (none / 0) (#30)
    by Geekesque on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 06:30:22 PM EST
    white men voted for Obama because they're sexist is really insulting.

    It's like saying "white women voted for Clinton because they don't like voting for black people."

    [ Parent ]

    Well (none / 0) (#46)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 06:38:04 PM EST
    take it easy. Surely SOME men are sexists.

    [ Parent ]
    Sure they are. (none / 0) (#58)
    by Geekesque on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 06:42:15 PM EST
    But, bad spin should be debunked.

    [ Parent ]
    Bad spin (none / 0) (#192)
    by auntmo on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 07:38:31 PM EST
    "Bad  spin  should  be  debunked."

    Yes ,  Geek,  on BOTH  sides.

    We're  all eager  to see  you be  consistent  in  applying  that  rule  fairly.  

    Teresa, on  the other  hand, is  usually pretty  fair.  

    [ Parent ]

    Wow... (none / 0) (#207)
    by mindfulmission on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 07:45:30 PM EST
    ... if you really think that bad spin should debunked on both sides, why do YOU never debunk bad Clinton spin?

    [ Parent ]
    But (none / 0) (#17)
    by BlueLakeMichigan on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 06:26:48 PM EST
    white women do. Older people do. Working class people do. Creative class individuals increasingly don't. I mean, what's the point when as Democrats we'll need ALL these groups together in a coalition if we want to win in November?

    [ Parent ]
    California? (none / 0) (#142)
    by Socraticsilence on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 07:20:40 PM EST
    While Clinton didn't get 90% of 29%, she did get 66% of 30% in California (from Latinos), so really I don't know how much California should count (assuming you discount VA, if not then there both good victories).

    [ Parent ]
    Is this a herd thing? (none / 0) (#174)
    by Bob In Pacifica on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 07:33:48 PM EST
    Maybe a majority of white men in Virginia just prefer Obama to Clinton.

    [ Parent ]
    Teresa (none / 0) (#180)
    by auntmo on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 07:34:49 PM EST
    Down here in Texas  (except  for  Austin),   those  white  men   who  won't vote  for  Hillary  will  go  McCain instead of  Obama  in  the  general.  

    Fact of life.

    [ Parent ]

    fact of life... (none / 0) (#188)
    by mindfulmission on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 07:37:55 PM EST
    ... Texas won't matter in November.  

    McCain will win.  Regardless of who the Dem candidate is.

    [ Parent ]

    Texas won't matter (none / 0) (#196)
    by auntmo on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 07:40:19 PM EST
    Well,  all right  then.  

    We  won't  count  any of  the  delegates  Obama  wins  in  Texas.    

    [ Parent ]

    What? (none / 0) (#206)
    by mindfulmission on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 07:44:25 PM EST
    Where did I suggest that.  

    I never said Texas didn't matter in the primaries.  I said Texas wouldn't matter in November.  

    Two very different things.

    [ Parent ]

    What do you think the break down is... (none / 0) (#190)
    by jor on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 07:38:16 PM EST
    ... for geriatric white women? 80-20? Unfortunately exit polls don't have this specific break down, although it would be highly telling. Although, all 3  demographics factors favor clinton, so it doesnt seem to be so outrageous to think it might be something like 80-20. Identity politics goes both ways in this race.

    [ Parent ]
    The CNN exit poll seems wrong to me (none / 0) (#19)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 06:27:20 PM EST
    I would think Obama got a bigger share of the male vote and a much smaller share of the women vote.

    Something seems wrong. But 62% seems right to me.

    Now for the delegate split . . .

    [ Parent ]

    65-34 is a pretty big share of the male vote. (none / 0) (#31)
    by Geekesque on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 06:31:20 PM EST
    I wouldn't have guessed an Obama blowout in VA two weeks ago, let alone a month ago.

    [ Parent ]
    Funny (none / 0) (#44)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 06:37:10 PM EST
    I have predicted it for quite a while. 23 is about right to me. I predicted 60-40.

    Obama ran a bit better with white men that I thought.

    [ Parent ]

    60-40 seemed right as of late. (none / 0) (#61)
    by Geekesque on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 06:43:43 PM EST
    But, Obama was behind 49-25 there in October, which was the last time it was polled before Super Tuesday.

    [ Parent ]
    Ancient history (none / 0) (#79)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 06:49:51 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Two-thirds? (none / 0) (#47)
    by BlueLakeMichigan on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 06:38:22 PM EST
    Wow. What percentage of the results are in?

    [ Parent ]
    How many precincts have reported? (none / 0) (#4)
    by Florida Resident on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 06:21:20 PM EST


    For what it's worth (none / 0) (#5)
    by andgarden on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 06:21:27 PM EST
    You can watch the vote come in by Congressional District here.

    CNN VA exit polls (none / 0) (#21)
    by Coldblue on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 06:28:11 PM EST
    are showing Huckabee leading McCain in the veterans demographic. Wow.

    now that is (none / 0) (#25)
    by Jgarza on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 06:28:58 PM EST
    grand, nice tid bit of data you found there lol.

    [ Parent ]
    for the first time ever (none / 0) (#28)
    by NJDem on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 06:29:15 PM EST
    I actually turned on Fox, and with less than 1% in it went up to 51/48 for BO--obviously this wasn't going to last, and the gap widened to about 13, but I still don't get the criteria for calling them.

    Something seems fishy about this VA race.  60/40 for BO on the economy? And a large majority of women?  Either it's really bad news for HRC or something's up--notice how McCain is now losing too?

    Not really (none / 0) (#32)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 06:31:25 PM EST
    He carried 90% of the A-A vote, 30% and 48% of the white vote.

    That is to be expected.

    [ Parent ]

    Wait a second (none / 0) (#37)
    by Kitt on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 06:34:02 PM EST
    I thought I heard on MSNBC that in Virginia one didn't have to register party and you could vote in both primaries, Rep / Dem.

    [ Parent ]
    That's right (none / 0) (#42)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 06:35:51 PM EST
    Open primary.

    [ Parent ]
    BTD, is there any truth to the rumor (none / 0) (#143)
    by echinopsia on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 07:20:49 PM EST
    in your opinion, that a lot of the crossovers are voting for the Dem they want to vote against in the general?

    I.e., the one they think will be easier to beat?

    [ Parent ]

    Who knows? (none / 0) (#158)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 07:27:24 PM EST
    Look, this is a good night for Obama.

    But this gets decided March 4th.

    [ Parent ]

    Unless it gets decided on April 22nd (none / 0) (#175)
    by andgarden on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 07:34:00 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Well (none / 0) (#185)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 07:37:02 PM EST
    if Clinton win Texas and Ohio, then it gets decided on april 22.

    [ Parent ]
    A fair number of women also fall into the black (none / 0) (#41)
    by andrewwm on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 06:35:39 PM EST
    group. So he's winning all the black females. Of white females he's probably taking a significantly smaller percentage.

    [ Parent ]
    42%oif white women (none / 0) (#62)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 06:43:49 PM EST
    with white women probably 2/3 of the segment and 90% of A-A women as 1/3 of the vote - thus I get 53-54% of the total women's vote.

    [ Parent ]
    Actually (none / 0) (#66)
    by Fultron on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 06:45:11 PM EST
    45%

    [ Parent ]
    Oops (none / 0) (#71)
    by Fultron on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 06:47:13 PM EST
    Sorry, my "Actually" part was referring to the first post, not BTD's stating 42%.

    [ Parent ]
    Obama wins (none / 0) (#33)
    by Jgarza on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 06:31:56 PM EST
    Catholics in VA according to Tim Russert.

    Not accordint to CNN exit polling. (none / 0) (#36)
    by BrandingIron on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 06:32:52 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Is that a significant demo in VA? (none / 0) (#40)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 06:35:22 PM EST
    I would not think so.

    [ Parent ]
    17% of Democrats who voted (none / 0) (#45)
    by andgarden on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 06:37:57 PM EST
    according to CNN.

    [ Parent ]
    Not that significant then (5.00 / 1) (#53)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 06:39:40 PM EST
    Not even sure that saying "Catholic" predicts anything anymore anyway.

    [ Parent ]
    Do you guys think (none / 0) (#60)
    by Stellaaa on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 06:43:00 PM EST
    all Catholics are white?

    [ Parent ]
    Heck of a point (none / 0) (#76)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 06:49:07 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    how so? (none / 0) (#155)
    by mindfulmission on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 07:25:55 PM EST
    how does the race of catholics have anything to do with this specific thread?

    the push to make everything into racial/gender identity politics is getting quite frustrating...

    [ Parent ]

    Because it relates to Obama's (none / 0) (#184)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 07:36:03 PM EST
    support among A-As.

    Sorry if you think the demo that is important for A-A Catholics is Catholics, then you believe in fantasies.

    Besides, the Cathloic demo is basically meaningless.

    [ Parent ]

    fantasy? (none / 0) (#200)
    by mindfulmission on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 07:42:34 PM EST
    Sorry BTD... but if you think that I said that I said the Catholic demo was important to anyone, than you believe in fantasies.  

    I simply said that the race of Catholics was not very relevant to the conversation.  

    Further... the % of Catholics are African American is very small.  Back in 2000 it was only 3%, so I would be surprised if a significant portion of the Catholic vote in VA was from African Americans.

    [ Parent ]

    Can someone tell me (none / 0) (#34)
    by BrandingIron on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 06:32:11 PM EST

    why projection at 1% of the vote in does anyone good?  Particularly on CNN where the vote spread between McCain and Huck is even larger than the vote spread between Clinton and Obama but they're saying it's "too close to call" w/McCain/Huck.

    Exit polls (none / 0) (#49)
    by Fultron on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 06:38:50 PM EST
    showing BO taking 90% of the black vote (30%), and the rest splitting 50/50. As others have pointed out there, those numbers predict at least 60-40 for Obama, outside of a reasonable margin of error on ~1000 polled. I haven't looked at the exit polls on the Rep side, but if they come out within 3 points, it's probably too close to call now.

    The 1% of precincts that have reported are probably demographically different and/or small compared to the rest of the state.

    [ Parent ]

    Indeed... (none / 0) (#56)
    by Fultron on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 06:41:17 PM EST
    they show about 46/45 Huckabee vs. McCain.

    [ Parent ]
    What about Washington State? (none / 0) (#189)
    by Bob In Pacifica on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 07:38:13 PM EST
    Did the Republicans ever get around to counting the last 13% of the votes there?

    [ Parent ]
    AF (none / 0) (#51)
    by AF on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 06:39:20 PM EST
    I take it as another sign he's a compromiser and not a fighter for a progressive agenda.

    How do you interpret the fact that Obama wins Democrats 59-40?

    Well (none / 0) (#54)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 06:40:40 PM EST
    Nearly 50% of the Dems are A-A in this election and they went for Obama 90-10.

    [ Parent ]
    Okay, but (none / 0) (#55)
    by AF on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 06:41:12 PM EST
    What is the evidence the white Democrats were voting on issues on not race?

    [ Parent ]
    lol (none / 0) (#57)
    by andreww on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 06:41:48 PM EST
    so really there is nothing Obama could do to impress you huh BTD?  

    [ Parent ]
    Incidentally (none / 0) (#63)
    by AF on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 06:44:20 PM EST
    A-As appear to be 37% of Dems.  But you are correct, white Dems went for Clinton 58-41.  

    [ Parent ]
    That number seems shaky to me (none / 0) (#72)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 06:47:34 PM EST
    Should be much higher than that.

    [ Parent ]
    36% actually (none / 0) (#84)
    by AF on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 06:52:11 PM EST
    Vote by Party and Race
                         Clinton Obama              
    White Democrats (40%) 58% 41%              
    White Independents (16%) 35% 64%              
    Black Democrats (24%) 12% 88%              
    Black Independents (5%) 14% 86%              
    Latino Democrats (3%) N/A N/A              
    Latino Independents (1%) N/A N/A              
    All Republicans (7%) 25% 71%              
    All Other Party (3%

    A bit of arithmetic shows 36% of Democrats are black.


    [ Parent ]

    I am not buyng that exit poll (none / 0) (#101)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 07:01:38 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Which Exit Poll Is That (none / 0) (#160)
    by BDB on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 07:28:49 PM EST
    Because those numbers differ from the ones I saw on CNN.  Unless the weighting has begun.

    The weighting is the hardest part.

    [ Parent ]

    I am making sense of the number (none / 0) (#68)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 06:46:31 PM EST
    Obama's strength among A-As is hardly a signal that he is a Dem Fighter.

    Let me be clear. I judge these things objectively.

    You have your big win in VA. If you want an irratonal celebration, I suggest to you Daily Kos is having a big party right now.

    I am providing analysis, not cheers.

    [ Parent ]

    I'm not gloating (none / 0) (#89)
    by AF on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 06:54:31 PM EST
    I was responding to your analysis of the exit poll data, which you said showed Obama is "a compromiser and not a fighter for a progressive agenda."  That analysis is valid only if you assume blacks voted on race but whites voted on issues.

    [ Parent ]
    I did not say you were (none / 0) (#98)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 07:01:07 PM EST
    I was responding to Andrew.

    Silly to gloat over me anyway, I am not a Hillary supporter.

    [ Parent ]

    Really? (none / 0) (#109)
    by AF on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 07:04:32 PM EST
    Who do you support?

    [ Parent ]
    Holding my nose (none / 0) (#131)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 07:13:39 PM EST
    Obama.

    [ Parent ]
    Wow (none / 0) (#136)
    by AF on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 07:16:56 PM EST
    Did you just switch?

    [ Parent ]
    Sigh (none / 0) (#141)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 07:19:59 PM EST
    I know you refuse to read the archives, but I wish you would stop making assumptions if you refuse to do so.

    [ Parent ]
    Fair enough (none / 0) (#150)
    by AF on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 07:24:46 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    from tepid (none / 0) (#144)
    by Stellaaa on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 07:21:50 PM EST
    to holding nose. I want a graphic.

    [ Parent ]
    Objectively, you are a Hillary supporter. (none / 0) (#114)
    by Geekesque on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 07:05:48 PM EST
    Your actions and analysis/spin objectively assist her candidacy at the expense of Obama.

    For instance, you are spinning this showing against Obama in every way possible.

    [ Parent ]

    you need to calm down (none / 0) (#132)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 07:13:58 PM EST
    I am saying nothing that I do not believe.

    Spinning assumes an agenda.

    Frankly, I am not a big fan of either candidate.

    You are walking close to the line right now.

    you want cheering. you know where to go.

     

    [ Parent ]

    You know, when someone says he's (none / 0) (#162)
    by echinopsia on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 07:29:15 PM EST
    for Obama, I take him at his word. Just because there someone supports Obama does not mean he has to act like he's rabid for Obama.

    The fairest people I have seen are the ones who prefer on over the other only slightly. They are capable of honest criticism and they are very rare.

    It's very helpful for those of us who aren't interested in nothing but rah-rah spin for our candidate. That's why TL is so much better than blatantly pro-Obama or pro-Clinton blogs.

    [ Parent ]

    I do too (none / 0) (#194)
    by AF on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 07:39:21 PM EST
    I was not incredulous, just surprised.  BTD's recent posts have struck me as consistently pro-Hillary.  Now my curiosity is piqued.  I am going to run to the archives and read his anti-Hillary posts!

    [ Parent ]
    echinopsia (none / 0) (#210)
    by auntmo on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 07:49:43 PM EST
    Agree  completely.   BTD  is  pretty objective  and   rational.   Geek  wants  a party,  go to  TPM  or  Kos.    

    And you're  right...no one  minds  a  rational  Obama  supporter;   the  bashers  are something else.

    [ Parent ]

    Reaganesque? (none / 0) (#147)
    by Socraticsilence on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 07:22:45 PM EST
    Would you characterize Reagan as a centrist? Just asking because he drew similar support from Dems and Indies as Barak draws from the Gop and indies.

    [ Parent ]
    I wrote a post on t he subject (none / 0) (#154)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 07:25:55 PM EST
    I wish Obama WAS Reaganesque. He is not.

    [ Parent ]
    Ran as a Partisan (none / 0) (#157)
    by BDB on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 07:27:11 PM EST
    I would not call Reagan a centrist, but he ran as a very partisan Republican.  Obama is not running as a partisan.  Which is why I think he attracts "independents" and also why I wonder if it will last after six months of GOP ads calling him the "most liberal Senator in the Senate."

    [ Parent ]
    Reagan ran conservative (none / 0) (#187)
    by Socraticsilence on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 07:37:53 PM EST
    Reagan ran conservative, but he also maangaed to convince Independents and a significant minority of Dems that they were conservative as well. While I would admit he needs to a better job of it, Obama seems to be attempting to convince a majority of independents that they are part of a new progressive majority. (the "most Liberal Senator" thing does bug me I'll admit especially since its total crap, the numbers are heavily cooked, though If it is true then that would seem to belie the argument that Obama is a centrist).

    [ Parent ]