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Monday Afternoon OpenThread

I've been out of commission all day. Anything exciting happen?

This is an Open Thread.

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    Krugman gave his Nobel speech (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by andgarden on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 05:26:47 PM EST
    but I've not yet seen the video anywhere.

    Oh, and I'm almost through my first bottle of hand cream this winter.

    Thanks for the reminder (none / 0) (#12)
    by nycstray on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 05:44:05 PM EST
    I'm almost through my hand cream also! I keep it at my side these days  ;)

    [ Parent ]
    Last year I found a perfect kind (none / 0) (#15)
    by andgarden on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 05:48:48 PM EST
    Aveeno Intense Relief. Amazon is now out, but I have a 3 pack left.

    [ Parent ]
    Thanks! I like their stuff (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by nycstray on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 06:01:00 PM EST
    I have a moisturizing body wash from them that I use. Def adds another layer of moisture :)

    I saved the link so I can order when it's in. :)

    [ Parent ]

    The best stuff is Pacquins! (none / 0) (#43)
    by hairspray on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 07:16:50 PM EST
    Very hard to find it though.  Very creamy, sinks right in and gets rid of the chapped feeling overnight.

    [ Parent ]
    I have the (5.00 / 1) (#49)
    by robert72 on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 08:09:17 PM EST
    diabetic hands - thick rough skin that cracks and peels and is so sore. Any suggestions out there? The best I've found is called Miracle Hand Repair and is 60% aloe....

    [ Parent ]
    Try pure lanolin (5.00 / 1) (#53)
    by The Poster Formerly Known as cookiebear on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 08:58:31 PM EST
    I'm not diabetic, but I know a lot of people who are, and pure lanolin seems to really help them.

    It's very inexpensive. You can get it at a good pharmacy. It comes out of the tube solid, but "melts" upon contact with the skin.

    [ Parent ]

    Kinda (none / 0) (#61)
    by Fabian on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 09:17:45 PM EST
    lanolin is considered a "wax" more than an oil, and does need some heat to melt.  Warm your hands and the lanolin in warm water if you tend to have cold hands.  (I've got a container of it.)

    [ Parent ]
    Wow, you just gave me a memory (none / 0) (#96)
    by ruffian on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 10:31:01 AM EST
    My mom used Pacquins when I was a kid and I haven't thought of it in at least 40 years.  Now I can see the jar and smell and feel it.

    Thanks!!

    [ Parent ]

    Mine too. And my same (none / 0) (#98)
    by oculus on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 11:01:22 AM EST
    thought when I read the name.  

    [ Parent ]
    I was a nurse in a children's hospital (none / 0) (#103)
    by hairspray on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 07:44:33 PM EST
    and was required to wash my hands between each baby for 2 minutes.  Try taking care of 5 babies and washing every 5-8 minutes.  Pacquins is what we used.  Once in a while you can find it in a Longs or Rite Aid store.

    [ Parent ]
    Another excellent choice (none / 0) (#56)
    by BackFromOhio on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 09:08:09 PM EST
    and verrrry inexpensive is No Crack by Restoration Hardware.... comes in scented & unscented and lots of different sizes at Xmas time (at least it used to!)

    [ Parent ]
    Is this unscented? (none / 0) (#70)
    by gyrfalcon on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 11:44:12 PM EST
    I have dry skin anyway, but my water (from Lake Champlain) is so heavily chlorinated, it's just hell on my hands.  I have a filter on my showerhead which does a fantastic job, but they don't fit on my bathroom sink and are a pain in the neck in the kitchen.

    [ Parent ]
    It's not perfumed (5.00 / 1) (#72)
    by andgarden on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 11:51:14 PM EST
    but it does have a very faint smell.

    [ Parent ]
    And since I can't talk this up enough. (none / 0) (#42)
    by andgarden on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 07:05:26 PM EST
    Daily Howler finally has an RSS feed!

    [ Parent ]
    Via iTunes.

    The good news is, today was my first day of vacation, meaning I was paying bills this morning instead of over the weekend like I usually do. So I caught the &^^ almost immediately. Had I paid over the weekend, it would have been several days before I figured out what was going on.

    Kudos to my bank - they took care of it almost immediately and got all the charges reversed.

    Someone stole your CC # (none / 0) (#5)
    by andgarden on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 05:30:41 PM EST
    and used it in itunes? Or worse, your debit card? (With the latter, you're out the money until your bank corrects the problem; that's why Visa/MC linked debit cards are evil.)

    [ Parent ]
    CC (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by The Poster Formerly Known as cookiebear on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 05:32:41 PM EST
    I've now shut down everything, from my eBay account to Paypal.

    [ Parent ]
    Ive heard that... (5.00 / 2) (#37)
    by Thanin on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 06:49:10 PM EST
    paypal is the devil.  Supposedly theyre very corrupt.

    [ Parent ]
    What? (none / 0) (#71)
    by gyrfalcon on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 11:45:22 PM EST
    What are you talking about?

    [ Parent ]
    PayPal is very safe (none / 0) (#73)
    by Jeralyn on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 11:51:46 PM EST
    safer than a credit card because you don't give your number to the sellers. I've never heard of a paypal account being hacked (knock on wood.)

    [ Parent ]
    I've heard horror stories (none / 0) (#77)
    by andgarden on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 12:17:49 AM EST
    of people having their accounts frozen and audited for bizarre reasons. I would not keep any money with them, or tell them my checking account number.

    [ Parent ]
    Not according to my bank (none / 0) (#85)
    by The Poster Formerly Known as cookiebear on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 08:09:39 AM EST
    They said (and i quote): Paypal's the worst.

    [ Parent ]
    Rice n Hillary (5.00 / 1) (#3)
    by squeaky on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 05:29:38 PM EST
    Dine together tonight. Rice hosts, may make southern fried chicken.

    'I think she's going to be terrific,' Rice said. ..

    war & piece

    The election is over - Kilroy WINS! (5.00 / 3) (#7)
    by Fabian on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 05:37:29 PM EST
    Huzzah!  The home of DFHs and gays no longer have a Republican representing them!

    Now if Franken can clinch his contest, I'll be happier.

    (Don't ask me about global climate change.  It's looking like Change is heading our way.  This dry autumn is due to a change in Artic atmospheric circulation.  No word on any changes in oceanic circulation.)

    Yeah, and Winter came a month early (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by BarnBabe on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 05:47:45 PM EST
    It was 7 degrees this morning in NE Penna. First we got the early snow and now cold temps. All I can say is Spring better start in February.
    50 expected on Wed with rain. The weather is so confused this year. Heh.

    [ Parent ]
    Oceanic changes (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by Fabian on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 05:54:46 PM EST
    will hit the coasts first - and hardest.  Plus changes to the (remaining) fisheries.

    Atmospheric changes are faster and more transient.  Oceanic changes are slower, last longer and have the most potential for catastrophic changes.  The atmospheric changes are nothing to ignore since they can wreak havoc on food production.

    I'm tempted to look into stocking up on food for long term storage.  My gardening plans for this spring will be reconsidered.

    [ Parent ]

    You telling me I should enjoy (5.00 / 3) (#17)
    by andgarden on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 05:55:59 PM EST
    my Maine lobsters while I can get them?

    One of my favorite foods in the world. . .

    [ Parent ]

    I can be sure of nothing. (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by Fabian on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 06:05:47 PM EST
    But your Maine lobsters are probably safe for a while.

    The real question is: Where will all that cold water that was once the Arctic ice cap go?

    Ice doesn't move much.  Water does.  The Younger Dryas period appears to have been caused by an interruption of the thermohaline ocean circulation.  What exactly caused the interruption is unknown.  What effect would a large influx of cold water have?  We don't know.

    [ Parent ]

    Beachfront property in Pittsburgh! (none / 0) (#24)
    by andgarden on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 06:07:37 PM EST
    (UGH).

    [ Parent ]
    And Alabama above the panhandle (none / 0) (#45)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 07:33:31 PM EST
    goody goody

    [ Parent ]
    Anybody want a beachfront trailor? (5.00 / 2) (#46)
    by jeffinalabama on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 07:39:32 PM EST
    I might just have one for sale, heh.

    [ Parent ]
    And Florida (none / 0) (#65)
    by cal1942 on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 09:55:22 PM EST
    Gone.

    [ Parent ]
    Miami (none / 0) (#80)
    by Fabian on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 04:22:59 AM EST
    The most densely populated coastal city in America.

    If not "gone" then waiting for the next hurricane or typhoon to come calling.  Repeat for similar cities all over the globe.

    [ Parent ]

    Interesting note. (none / 0) (#25)
    by Fabian on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 06:16:34 PM EST
    The whole of human civilization including  agriculture and metal working happened since the last major Ice Age.  We've never dealt with a major climactic change as a civilization before.  

    Last major ice age peaked approximately 18,000 years ago.
    10,000 BC agriculture
    3,000 BC bronze age
    1,300 BC iron age

    [ Parent ]

    An old Greek figured it out (none / 0) (#106)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 10:18:35 PM EST
    Try this.

    Take a glass and fill it full of ice cubes and water right to the brim.

    Let ice cubes melt.

    You will then know what the water will do.

    [ Parent ]

    Ha! (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by The Poster Formerly Known as cookiebear on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 05:59:41 PM EST
    Sign of my Luddite-ness: after years of searching for the perfect Solar Dehydrator, I finally bought an electric one a week or so ago. And I'm already making garden plans.

    A financial planner in these parts gave the following advice - published in the paper, no less - learn to grow your own food. !.

    The good news for me is that, even though I'm not crazy about having taken on a mortgage just before it all caved in, I have a perfect sunroom here, and I plan to use it for winter and more delicate crops. It's perfect for lettuces, for example, which I've never had much luck with outside, thanks to our wildly variable springtime temps and our boiling summers.

    [ Parent ]

    Decided last year that this Spring (5.00 / 2) (#31)
    by BarnBabe on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 06:25:18 PM EST
    I would go for a garden. Haven't done it since 2001 for my Uncle. I believe it is a good idea in as much as there are so many scary things happening to our fruits and veggies. Last year it was tomatoes. So for peace of mind I plan on growing my own. It is exciting too when watching as things grow. I know, not the same as politics or dancing until dawn, but it is more a feel of accomplishment.

    [ Parent ]
    See if you can give (5.00 / 2) (#32)
    by andgarden on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 06:27:19 PM EST
    I thought I was one of the few who knew about (5.00 / 2) (#38)
    by jeffinalabama on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 06:50:08 PM EST
    Ramapo's... excellent/superior disease resistance in Alabama. That's saying something.

    [ Parent ]
    I'm from Philly, so these used to be (5.00 / 2) (#39)
    by andgarden on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 06:54:02 PM EST
    the Jersey tomato. But that was before my time, and now, as everywhere else, we get hockey pucks at the supermarket.

    [ Parent ]
    Haven't tried the Ramapo (none / 0) (#74)
    by gyrfalcon on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 11:57:02 PM EST
    but had a nice Rutgers this summer.

    It's not widely know, but Monsanto has bought up pretty much all the more common tomato varieties-- everything from Celebrity (my absolute favorite) to Big Boy, Early Girl, on and on and on.

    All the more reason to go for heirloom plants/seeds where you can find them.

    Also I only recently learned there are Brandywines and then there are Brandywines.  The original old variety is quite pink and has (to me) a great balance of acid and sweet.  But there are a lot of newer ones out there, which are more widely sold, that aren't so pink and are much, much sweeter.  If you like a primarily sweet tomato, you'll love them. But if you prefer a real tang, look for the older ones.

    One way to tell before buying a plant is that the leaves on the old Brandywines are nearly indistinguishable from potato leaves, where the newer ones are more like the recent hybrid tomatoes.

    [ Parent ]

    We had the old Brandywines from our CSA (none / 0) (#78)
    by nycstray on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 12:36:52 AM EST
    I've been seed saving {grin} I didn't realize Monsanto had invaded the seed market so much until about 2yrs ago. There's a couple of heirloom seed companies that sell on Amazon and so you can find a decent selection there. They have the 5 colors of carrots variety pack and some other fun ones  :) We also have a few farmers that sell them at the farmers market here.

    I was thinking of sending my dad some peanut "seeds" from a southern seed saver exchange. They're supposed to be pretty hardy for droughts. I thought perhaps he would get a kick out of growing them during the CA water shortage (turning to drought if they don't get enough rain this season)  ;)

    [ Parent ]

    Johnny's Select Seeds (none / 0) (#81)
    by Fabian on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 04:27:44 AM EST
    Good company and tests all seeds and the packages are labeled with the germination rates. Website

    [ Parent ]
    There are dozens (none / 0) (#102)
    by gyrfalcon on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 12:13:18 PM EST
    of first-rate organic and heirloom seed companies with Web presences.

    I like Amazon, but they don't need to control everything sold on the Web, so I try to find a direct seller before going through them.

    [ Parent ]

    ... think - or claim.

    The secret is your soil. I've always supplemented mine with coffee grounds, lots of calcium (in various forms), and mulched with straw, which breaks down into the most gorgeous stuff imaginable.

    Anything will grow in that stuff. Also, place your beds in sunlight appropriate for your area. Here, that means pretty much anything in full sun gets zapped - my best stuff grows with about 3-4 hours of sun, the rest of the time in the shade.

    The trick for me this year will be that a lot of stuff will have to be container grown. I have a hound puppy, and she loves to dig. And there's no possibility I'll get barriers up before spring.

    Also plant for pollinators. Scarlet runner beans attract everything, and they're beautiful and hardy - they can stand full sun.

    [ Parent ]

    Feeding yourself out of your own (5.00 / 2) (#75)
    by gyrfalcon on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 12:00:42 AM EST
    soil is a huge high, I think, not to mention being able to have fantastic fresh produce just by stepping out your door.

    I have a large garden and have been getting serious about putting stuff up-- many pints of tomatoes and tomato sauce, freezing veggies, freezing veg soups and purees, storage potatoes and winter squash, masses of pesto frozen in ice cube trays, barely cooked strawberries with sugar making divine frozen sauce for ice cream to defrost in mid-winter, etc.

    [ Parent ]

    A new report (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 06:17:14 PM EST
    shows all temps in the ocean lower....

    So much for the man mad global warming hoax.

    [ Parent ]

    I'd like to say that is good news. (5.00 / 3) (#28)
    by Fabian on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 06:22:03 PM EST
    But it isn't.

    Good news would be the ice caps returning to the size they were a century ago.  

    Ice melts, oceans cool, probably temporarily.  Then what happens when we run out of ice?

    [ Parent ]

    I hadn't heard (5.00 / 3) (#29)
    by andgarden on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 06:23:51 PM EST
    "X just good cooler, so global warming isn't real!" in years. That's a real flashback.

    [ Parent ]
    *got (none / 0) (#30)
    by andgarden on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 06:24:12 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    sun spots have decreased (none / 0) (#50)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 08:16:42 PM EST
    that is the driver... has been forever.

    [ Parent ]
    The Day After Tomorrow?

    I hate to burst your bubble, but that was a movie.

    [ Parent ]

    Here's what someone with a little more (5.00 / 2) (#62)
    by Dark Avenger on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 09:19:42 PM EST
    knowledge of the subject has to say:

    I have forty years of experience in Astronomy, specifically solar and space physics. My specialties include the physics of solar flares, sunspots, including their effects on Earth and statistics as applied to astronomical investigations.

    As the authors in the latter study point out, the heating component arising from greenhouse gas emissions from 1861-1990 amounted to anywhere from 2.0 to 2.8 watts per square meter. The solar variability component detected over the same period amounted to 0.1 to 0.5 watts per square meter. Thus, even the MAXIMUM solar variability amounted to only a fraction (25%) of the MINIMUM power input from human-induced greenhouse warming!

    Soon and Baliunas, meanwhile, in a paper published four years ago, estimated a solar irradiance change of 0.4% which is hardly credible (to me) since no previous detailed research gets anywhere near that. (These two authors are global warming deniers, so it would fit that a higher solar irradiance is what would 'fit the bill' i.e. to blame warming miseries on ol' Sol)

    My best instinct would be that Sofia et al's remain the best variance results.

    John Eddy's radio-carbon data for the "little Ice Age" (cf. 'Historical and Arboreal Evidence for a Changing Sun' in The New Solar Physics, AAAS Selected Symposium, Westview Press, 1979, pp. 11-33) also falls well within the tolerance parameters and limits assigned by Sofia et al.

    Moreover, their study has lots of heft because it is tied to actual physical changes in the Sun's diameter, as opposed to much more subjective (and questionable) methods.

    Lastly, I would not personally put much stock in the book you read about 'Unstoppable Global Warming' etc. One of the authors, S. Fred Singer, is a well-known global warming skeptic who has also received funding from fossil fuel lobbies for his work. Writing as a solar physicist, there is also NO solid evidence that the Sun is the culprit as he and Avery - the co-author-  claim.

    If it was true, that the Sun was really a variable star on the scale of 1500 yrs. it would be one of the most stupendous finds imaginable. Alas, it isn't. It is codswallop, pure and simple - but a great "excuse" for the naysayers to latch on to, in order to dodge the economic sacrifices we all know will have to be made if global warming is anthropogenic.

    Solar physicist John Eddy, who made it is research specialty to study long-term solar variations connected to climate change, noted the period of 12th century warming in his book, `The New Solar Physics', AAAS Selected Symposium, Westview Press, 1979, p. 17.

    Eddy noted that this coincided with a period of higher solar activity (i.e. more sunspots) and possibly greater luminosity - on account of the fact that the irradiance is amplified around sunspots owing to redirection of convective heat flow. (Bear in mind the plasma in spots is at lower temperatures, by about 1500C, because of the powerful magnetic fields in them). The opposite effect occurred in the little ice age with few or no spots. But this certainly doesn't argue for a 1500 year period!

    Bottom line is this: man-made global warming is real and is occurring even as I write this. The longer there is politically generated delay to avoid the economic fallout, the worse the fallout will eventually be. We diddle at our own peril, and it is now time to stop allowing politics and eonomics to trump the science.

    And stop listening to or reading the neo-Luddites and flat earthers.

    See also my other answer to a global warming query, in the 'previous answered questions'. (It has to do with whether the tilt of Earth's axis must be factored in)



    [ Parent ]
    You are about three years (none / 0) (#87)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 08:25:26 AM EST
    behind.

    Nothing new.

    yadda yadda

    [ Parent ]

    Here is something more recent (5.00 / 1) (#88)
    by Dark Avenger on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 08:35:27 AM EST
    that's harder to laugh off:

    Nov 7, 2008
    Climate response to solar forcing less than reported

    While recent studies have found that changes in the amount of sunlight reaching Earth have caused 65% of surface warming over the last 100 years, a new study puts that figure at just 10%. The researchers found that, if anything, in the past 25 years solar forcing has caused a very slight overall cooling, not 20-30% of the warming.

    "The influence of the Sun, in particular, versus anthropogenic influences on global change is extremely controversial and these recent articles have provoked this controversy further, evoking major consternation and confusion amongst scientist and the policy-making community," Judith Lean of the Naval Research Laboratory, US, told environmentalresearchweb. "Our own recent work analyzes the entire historical surface temperature record, using the IPCC anthropogenic and solar forcings simultaneously with ENSO [El Niño-Southern Oscillation] and volcanic influences. In this way we attempted to account simultaneously for the major forcings known to impact climate, whereas the prior studies that concluded a dominant role for solar variability neglected one or more of the other known influences."

    Lean, who worked with David Rind of NASA, reckons their results clearly show that natural changes cannot account for the significant long-term warming in the historical global surface temperature anomalies, and further strengthen the likelihood that the recent warming is anthropogenic in origin.

    The pair says their findings suggest deficiencies in general circulation models used to simulate and forecast climate change. "We showed that climate appears to respond to solar variability more rapidly - within months versus years - and with larger amplitude, by a factor of four or five, than the models simulate," explained Lean. "Contrary to model-based expectations, the 11-year solar cycle is reliably detected in the historical surface temperature record. Surface temperature responds rather rapidly, in phase with and lagging only by a month or so, the solar irradiance changes."

    The researchers believe that dynamical processes are involved rather than, or as well as, thermodynamic processes. "Existing circulation patterns - Hadley, Ferrel, and Walker cells - are likely engaged, along with atmosphere - ocean interactions (ENSO)," said Lean. "Furthermore, there are likely both direct (surface heating) and indirect (stratospheric influence) components. Current models are not able to represent these processes very well; many lack, for example, adequate stratospheres and ENSO representations." Lean hopes that future validation of models with the pair's empirical results may lead to improvements, which would then enable better estimates of responses to greenhouse gases.

    Lean and Rind also carried out the first comparison from observations of the geographical distributions of responses to the individual forcings. This produced the first estimate of the geographical pattern of ENSO and volcanic aerosols over the entire globe. "IPCC [2007] did not report geographical patterns of climate responses to individual natural and anthropogenic influences because of model uncertainties at smaller than continental scales and over timescales less than 50 years," said Lean. "Our derived regional response patterns presage the next IPCC (AR5), which plans to focus more on regional responses compared with the 2007 focus on global attribution."

    The researchers found that anthropogenic warming appears to have a much smaller signal at northern high latitudes than the IPCC reports, and than general circulation models simulate, at least in the annual averages. "However, our analysis is confined to latitudes less than about 65°N, where more reliable surface temperature observations exist, and captures only that variability at high latitudes which linearly tracks the four forcings (at appropriate lags)," said Lean.

    Next Lean and Rind plan to determine the seasonal variation in regional responses to different climate influences; to extend the analysis to the atmosphere above the surface rather than just looking at surface temperatures; to compare empirical and modeled regional response patterns in detail; and to work on forecasting surface temperatures in the next decade by looking at the response to solar and greenhouse gas changes in the context of plausible scenarios for ENSO and volcanic activity, which are difficult to forecast.

    "We have completed a large suite of model simulations using the GISS Middle Atmosphere GCM of climate range in the last 50 years (see Rind et al., JGR, in press)," said Lean. "Preliminary analyses indicate significant differences between the modeled and observed temperature responses to both solar and anthropogenic forcings, which we plan to elucidate and quantify, annually and seasonally, at the surface and in the atmosphere."

    The researchers reported their work in Geophysical Research Letters.

    he-he-he

    The latter was for PPJ, I translated the paper into language he could understand.

    Again, thanks for showing what a know-nothing you are on the subject, PPJ.

    [ Parent ]

    Show us your evidence (5.00 / 1) (#90)
    by The Poster Formerly Known as cookiebear on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 08:58:13 AM EST
    Links to published scientific articles supporting your case, please.

    [ Parent ]
    Oh rilly? (5.00 / 1) (#59)
    by Fabian on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 09:14:30 PM EST
    I'm trying to figure out how one would prove sunspots have been THE single most important factor in determining global climate changes since "forever".

    [ Parent ]
    You believe in man made global warming ? (none / 0) (#86)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 08:23:32 AM EST
    And you want something proved?

    hehehe

    [ Parent ]

    Start here (none / 0) (#89)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 08:44:06 AM EST
    David Evans

    I DEVOTED six years to carbon accounting, building models for the Australian Greenhouse Office. I am the rocket scientist who wrote the carbon accounting model (FullCAM) that measures Australia's compliance with the Kyoto Protocol, in the land use change and forestry sector.

    FullCAM models carbon flows in plants, mulch, debris, soils and agricultural products, using inputs such as climate data, plant physiology and satellite data. I've been following the global warming debate closely for years.

    When I started that job in 1999 the evidence that carbon emissions caused global warming seemed pretty good: CO2 is a greenhouse gas, the old ice core data, no other suspects.

    The evidence was not conclusive
    , but why wait until we were certain when it appeared we needed to act quickly? Soon government and the scientific community were working together and lots of science research jobs were created. We scientists had political support, the ear of government, big budgets, and we felt fairly important and useful (well, I did anyway). It was great. We were working to save the planet.

    But since 1999 new evidence has seriously weakened the case that carbon emissions are the main cause of global warming, and by 2007 the evidence was pretty conclusive that carbon played only a minor role and was not the main cause of the recent global warming. As Lord Keynes famously said, "When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir?"

    There has not been a public debate about the causes of global warming and most of the public and our decision makers are not aware of the most basic salient facts:

    1. The greenhouse signature is missing. We have been looking and measuring for years, and cannot find it.

    Each possible cause of global warming has a different pattern of where in the planet the warming occurs first and the most. The signature of an increased greenhouse effect is a hot spot about 10km up in the atmosphere over the tropics. We have been measuring the atmosphere for decades using radiosondes: weather balloons with thermometers that radio back the temperature as the balloon ascends through the atmosphere. They show no hot spot. Whatsoever.

    If there is no hot spot then an increased greenhouse effect is not the cause of global warming. So we know for sure that carbon emissions are not a significant cause of the global warming. If we had found the greenhouse signature then I would be an alarmist again.

    When the signature was found to be missing in 2007 (after the latest IPCC report), alarmists objected that maybe the readings of the radiosonde thermometers might not be accurate and maybe the hot spot was there but had gone undetected. Yet hundreds of radiosondes have given the same answer, so statistically it is not possible that they missed the hot spot.

    Recently the alarmists have suggested we ignore the radiosonde thermometers, but instead take the radiosonde wind measurements, apply a theory about wind shear, and run the results through their computers to estimate the temperatures. They then say that the results show that we cannot rule out the presence of a hot spot.
    If you believe that you'd believe anything.

    Link



    [ Parent ]
    Oh please (5.00 / 1) (#91)
    by The Poster Formerly Known as cookiebear on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 09:08:18 AM EST
    David Evans' training is in electrical engineering. You know: the people who develop cell phones and more efficient alarm clocks.

    By his own admission, he knows nothing of climatology.

    You can do better than that surely!

    [ Parent ]

    heh (none / 0) (#104)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 10:00:27 PM EST
    Then I suppose you will completely ignore the Chairman of the UN's IPCC..... who is a railroad engineer.

    cho cho !!!!!!!!!!!

    hehe

    Yet last week's latest episode is far from the first time Dr Hansen's methodology has been called in question. In 2007 he was forced by Mr Watts and Mr McIntyre to revise his published figures for US surface temperatures, to show that the hottest decade of the 20th century was not the 1990s, as he had claimed, but the 1930s.

    Another of his close allies is Dr Rajendra Pachauri, chairman of the IPCC, who recently startled a university audience in Australia by claiming that global temperatures have recently been rising "very much faster" than ever, in front of a graph showing them rising sharply in the past decade. In fact, as many of his audience were aware, they have not been rising in recent years and since 2007 have dropped.

    Dr Pachauri, a former railway engineer with no qualifications in climate science, may believe what Dr Hansen tells him. But whether, on the basis of such evidence, it is wise for the world's governments to embark on some of the most costly economic measures ever proposed, to remedy a problem which may actually not exist, is a question which should give us all pause for thought.

    Link

    [ Parent ]

    Mr Evans was taken to task (5.00 / 1) (#92)
    by Dark Avenger on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 09:22:03 AM EST
    here:

    David Appell showed David Evans the AGW signature from the IPCC report that Evans claimed was missing. Evans replied:

        Comparing a model to observations doesn't prove the model works. It's encouraging to the model builders, but it's not proof. For instance, the model could just be lucky.

    So when Evans wrote:

        The greenhouse signature is missing. We have been looking and measuring for years, and cannot find it.

    He meant that we had found the signature, but Evans didn't think it should count.

    and here:

    The Australian continues to display its contempt for science, scientists and the scientific method. They've published this piece of AGW denial by David Evans. Last time I looked at Evans he was saying that new evidence since 1999 had changed his mind about global warming, with this new evidence including the fact that the world had cooled from 1940 to 1975. Apparently this was too silly even for the Australian, so he now offers us four alleged facts.

        1 The greenhouse signature is missing. We have been looking and measuring for years, and cannot find it.

        Each possible cause of global warming has a different pattern of where in the planet the warming occurs first and the most. The signature of an increased greenhouse effect is a hot spot about 10km up in the atmosphere over the tropics.

    This couldn't be more wrong. Study the graphs below (from RealClimate). The left one shows the pattern predicted for doubling CO2, while the right one shows the pattern for a 2% increase in solar output.

    Graph  1

    Graph 2

    Both patterns include a hot spot. The difference between the two graphs is that the CO2 one shows cooling in the stratosphere, while the right one does not, so the "greenhouse signature" is stratospheric cooling. And guess what, that's what's been happening. Evans continues:

        We have been measuring the atmosphere for decades using radiosondes: weather balloons with thermometers that radio back the temperature as the balloon ascends through the atmosphere. They show no hot spot. Whatsoever.

        If there is no hot spot then an increased greenhouse effect is not the cause of global warming. So we know for sure that carbon emissions are not a significant cause of the global warming. If we had found the greenhouse signature then I would be an alarmist again.

    Actually we have found the greenhouse signature, so Evans should change his mind. I'm not holding my breath.

    If the hot spot really is missing it does not prove that CO2 is not causing warming, but it would indicate something wrong with the models. (Which might mean that things are worse than what the models predict.) However, the radiosonde measurements have been found to be wrong in the past, and it looks like they may well be wrong again.

    Evans continues:

        2 There is no evidence to support the idea that carbon emissions cause significant global warming. None. There is plenty of evidence that global warming has occurred, and theory suggests that carbon emissions should raise temperatures (though by how much is hotly disputed) but there are no observations by anyone that implicate carbon emissions as a significant cause of the recent global warming.

    This is pure denial. There is plenty of evidence and denying that it exists does not make it disappear. For instance, Figure 4 of the SPM. The blue bands show temperature changes modelled using only natural forcings, while the red bands include anthropogenic forcings as well. The black line shows observations. Clearly, we must include anthropogenic forcings if we want to match the observations.

        3 The satellites that measure the world's temperature all say that the warming trend ended in 2001, and that the temperature has dropped about 0.6C in the past year (to the temperature of 1980).

    Let's look at the lower troposphere trends from RSS:

        Figure 7. Global, monthly time series of brightness temperature anomaly for channels TLT, TMT, TTS, and TLS. For Channel TLT (Lower Troposphere) and Channel TMT (Middle Troposphere), the anomaly time series is dominated by ENSO events and slow tropospheric warming.

    The people who publish the data don't think that the warming trend ended in 2001, and if you look at the graph, it's only significantly deviated from the long term warming trend in 2008. Such short-term deviations have happened in the past without affecting the long term trend.

    Evans continues:

        Land-based temperature readings are corrupted by the "urban heat island" effect: urban areas encroaching on thermometer stations warm the micro-climate around the thermometer, due to vegetation changes, concrete, cars, houses. Satellite data is the only temperature data we can trust, but it only goes back to 1979.

    The land-based temperature readings are corrected for UHI, while the satellite readings have been found to be wrong in the past.

        NASA reports only land-based data, and reports a modest warming trend and recent cooling. The other three global temperature records use a mix of satellite and land measurements, or satellite only, and they all show no warming since 2001 and a recent cooling.

    Study the title of the NASA temperature graph:

    Global Temperature Land-Ocean Index

    Does it report only land-based data, or does it include ocean temperatures as well?

        4 The new ice cores show that in the past six global warmings over the past half a million years, the temperature rises occurred on average 800 years before the accompanying rise in atmospheric carbon. Which says something important about which was cause and which was effect.

    This is wrong. The temperature rises started on average 800 years before CO2 levels rose, but most of the warming occured after CO2 levels started rising. Jeff Severinghaus writes:

    Does this prove that CO2 doesn't cause global warming? The answer is no.

    The reason has to do with the fact that the warmings take about 5000 years to be complete. The lag is only 800 years. All that the lag shows is that CO2 did not cause the first 800 years of warming, out of the 5000 year trend. The other 4200 years of warming could in fact have been caused by CO2, as far as we can tell from this ice core data. ...

    In other words, CO2 does not initiate the warmings, but acts as an amplifier once they are underway. From model estimates, CO2 (along with other greenhouse gases CH4
    and N2O) causes about half of the full
    glacial-to-interglacial warming.

    That's it for all of Evans' evidence. The rest of his article is more pure denial. For instance:

        If there really was any evidence that carbon emissions caused global warming, don't you think we would have heard all about it ad nauseam by now?

    He has, but he just denies that it is evidence.




    [ Parent ]
    hehe (none / 0) (#105)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 10:08:32 PM EST
    Recently the alarmists have suggested we ignore the radiosonde thermometers, but instead take the radiosonde wind measurements, apply a theory about wind shear, and run the results through their computers to estimate the temperatures. They then say that the results show that we cannot rule out the presence of a hot spot.
    If you believe that you'd believe anything.

    When the man made global warming hoaxers run out of one theory to make you shiver in fright, they just break out another one....

    Pay no attention to the ACTUAL measurements... just give us your belief.... You did vote for Obama, didn't you??

    yadda yadda

    [ Parent ]

    Not really (none / 0) (#107)
    by Dark Avenger on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 10:45:42 PM EST
    Read and learn:

    The same day another paper also appeared in Science that speaks to another piece of this issue--radiosonde measured lower troposphere trends. For years skeptics have claimed that radiosonde derived trends independently "confirm" the satellite record. This has always been questionable on a number of grounds, but earlier UAH TLT trends were closer to the radiosonde record than those of RSS. Now it appears that the radiosonde records were also low for a completely different reason, and the previous similarities between the two were purely coincidental. A team led by Steven Sherwood of Yale has discovered that these records suffer almost universally from an overcorrection for incident solar radiative heating. Radiosondes carry "thermistor" type thermometers that measure local air temperature at regular intervals during the balloon's ascent. Like any thermometer left directly in the sun, these tend to read high unless compared to "shade" thermometers which are more accurate. In the past it has proven to be quite difficult to correct for this. Sherwood's team examined long-term radiosonde records from globally distributed stations for the impact of this effect. They found that the corrections for this effect that have been used most frequently overcorrect it by a significant amount leaving the sonde record with a spurious cooling. Recent datasets have provided more reliable corrections. When these are used the radiosonde record also agrees with the satellite and surface records to a degree well within the confidence intervals of each.

    Thus, the radiosonde "confirmation" of previous math-error driven UAH trends has also vanished.

    For what it's worth, the UAH team has acknowledged the error. Spencer put up something of a concession of sorts at Tech Central Station last week . He's not quite saying "we were wrong..." yet, but he's clearly shifting from "it ain't happening!..." to "maybe it won't be so bad..." Ron Bailey of the Competitive Enterprise Institute (who edited the book Global Warming and other Eco-Myths, which included a piece by Christy himself) has also acknowledged the error in an editorial in Reason magazine . Until last week, he was one of the more visible and vociferous of global warming skeptic science commentators. Now, he says that "anyone still holding onto the idea that there is no global warming ought to hang it up. All data sets-satellite, surface, and balloon-have been pointing to rising global temperatures.." A very honorable and reasoned concession on his part.

    When the man made global warming hoaxers run out of one theory to make you shiver in fright, they just break out another one....

    Of course, it would be too much to expect a rational response from everyone in that camp.

    I'll say.

    TTFN.

    [ Parent ]

    It is my understanding (none / 0) (#60)
    by BackFromOhio on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 09:15:37 PM EST
    that when parts of Polar ice caps or whatever break up/off, the initial effect is cold weather; and now perhaps cold ocean temperatures; just temporary.  Someone explained this to me 10 or so years ago when we had our first really cold winter in years.  I was living in Philly suburbs; temp fell from about 40 one day to 19 and lower with wind/chill; the day started with rain, which turned to sleet, then snow, and all the roads were literally covered with a sheet of ice in PA; Governor declared a state of emergency; driving to work was like ice skating inside a big weapon; traffic moved at a snail's pace; took me 3 hours to go 9 miles.  

    [ Parent ]
    Heh (5.00 / 1) (#76)
    by gyrfalcon on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 12:05:18 AM EST
    We went from mid-30s last night (Sunday) to mid single digits by morning today.  Then we're going back up a bit slower tomorrow, but talking about 40s by Wed.

    The thing to remember about climate change and global warming is the main effect, they predict, is to make weather wildly unpredictable and with big swings while the globe overall heats up.  That could absolutely mean colder weather in some parts of the world for years while other parts get swamped under by the oceans.

    I'm kinda glad I'm nearly 60, actually.  I don't really want to see much of how this plays out.

    [ Parent ]

    The unpredictability (none / 0) (#82)
    by Fabian on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 04:33:55 AM EST
    is what can really devastate agriculture.

    Farmers plant according to predictable weather patterns.  "crop failure" is the bogey man for me.

    [ Parent ]

    Here's what someone who studies (5.00 / 2) (#99)
    by Dark Avenger on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 11:06:00 AM EST
    the problem has to say about it

    THE sun is a powerful player in the planet's climate as the energy it sends to Earth waxes and wanes. But the sun is not driving recent global warming as climate change sceptics claim.

    That is the message from atmospheric scientist Marvin Geller of Stony Brook University in New York state, a keynote speaker at this week's Australian Institute of Physics national congress in Adelaide.

    "Solar physicists and climate scientists agree that while the sun affects climate (they) cannot account for the last several decades' warming trend without including human influences," he said.

    "There is no doubt humans are making the earth warmer by adding greenhouse gases (like carbon dioxide)."

    According to Professor Geller, solar radiation varies in an 11-year solar cycle but it has changed only one-tenth of 1 per cent since 1978 when solar satellite measurements began.

    "By any direct means, that would not have a very strong influence," he claimed.

    In contrast, the rate of global warming has escalated rapidly, increasing on average by about 0.6C between 1956 and 2006. As of 2006, 11 of the previous 12 years were warmer than any others since 1850, said Professor Geller.

    He dismissed the claim by climate change sceptics such as Martin Durkin -- producer and director of the controversial film The Great Global Warming Swindle -- that global warming peaked in 1998 then declined slightly.

    "That was a year of a massive El Nino. It's well known that El Ninos cause a temporary increase in global temperature. One has to distinguish between a steady and consistent (upward) trend and natural fluctuations in the internal system," said Professor Geller, pointing to a common confusion of "weather" and "climate".

    He noted that weather refers to current atmospheric phenomena like rain, temperature and wind. Climate is the average atmospheric conditions over years, decades or even millenniums.

    According to Professor Geller, sceptics are incorrect when they claim CO2 cannot cause warming as it comprises only a small, though increasing, fraction of the atmosphere.

    In fact, CO2 is highly reactive in the atmosphere, he said. "Just because it's a small fraction doesn't mean it's unimportant. If you don't believe me, try surviving in a room with a small concentration of cyanide gas."

    It is also incorrect to argue that since CO2 levels only rose after the end of the ice ages over the past half a million years, it cannot cause global warming now despite the fact that human activity has released unprecedented amounts of CO2 and other greenhouse gases, such as methane and water vapour, into the atmosphere since the 1850s.

    In fact, while the initial warming that ended the ice ages and released the CO2 was due to shifts in Earth's orbit, once the gas was released from the oceans, it accelerated the warming by absorbing solar radiation.

    And further back in geological time there were examples of warming triggered by rises on CO2, noted Professor Geller, who helped draft the American Geophysical Union position statement Human Impacts on Climate.

    The AGU is the world's largest scientific society of Earth and space scientists. The statement said: "Many components of the climate system ... are now changing at rates and in patterns that are not natural and are best explained by the increased atmospheric abundance of greenhouse gases and aerosols generated by human activity during the 20th century."

    Australia has its' problems, like the sheriff too:

    NOVEMBER rains over most of eastern Australia were bittersweet, hitting winter crop harvests hard but improving the outlook for summer crops.

    The rain interrupted the winter crop harvest in every state except South Australia, potentially downgrading grain quality. But it has set the scene for a bright future for summer crops, although it was insufficient to provide enough irrigation water for average rice and cotton plantings.

    Phillip Glyde, executive director of the Australian Bureau of Agriculture and Resource Economics, said the wheat crop was estimated to be 20 million tonnes, lower than the early-year estimates, but well above the 13million tonnes harvested last year.

    All up, the winter crop harvest -- wheat, barley, oats, canola, lupins and chickpeas -- was estimated to be 31 million tonnes, up 36 per cent on last year.

    But while the crop was bigger this year in Queensland, NSW and Western Australia, the crop was smaller in Victoria and South Australia because of persistent low rainfall.

    According to the latest ABARE crop report, the area planted to rice would be higher than last year's extraordinarily low level -- it was just 1 per cent of the average size -- but at just 8000ha it is well below the historical average of 133,000ha.



    [ Parent ]
    Rarely does winter really arrive here before mid-January. And it's typically gone by March.

    Not anymore ...

    [ Parent ]

    Gator Update (5.00 / 1) (#19)
    by CoralGables on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 05:59:36 PM EST
    The Florida Gators open as a 3 point favorite over the Sooners in the National Championship game.

    Bah (none / 0) (#36)
    by The Poster Formerly Known as cookiebear on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 06:39:15 PM EST
    The Gators are toast. OU will chew them up and spit them out!

    [ Parent ]
    And now Budweiser is cutting jobs (5.00 / 3) (#33)
    by BarnBabe on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 06:28:43 PM EST
    Wow. You would think that was the last to go. Can't blame any of my friends.

    When people can't afford beer (5.00 / 2) (#34)
    by andgarden on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 06:30:24 PM EST
    something seriously wrong.

    [ Parent ]
    especially really bad, (5.00 / 2) (#40)
    by cpinva on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 06:55:37 PM EST
    cheap beer.

    When people can't afford beer something seriously wrong.

    perhaps we'll see a return to the days of bathtub gin.

    by the way jim, if you put ice in a bucket of warm water (melting ice bergs), the overall temp. of the water drops, temporarily.

    [ Parent ]

    There's nothing especially wrong with Bud (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by andgarden on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 06:58:34 PM EST
    It's bland and generic, but then so is Coca-Cola.

    Given a choice between Bud in a can and Heineken in one of those nasty green bottles, I'll take the Bud.

    [ Parent ]

    there's nothing especially right (5.00 / 2) (#52)
    by cpinva on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 08:55:29 PM EST
    with it either. bland beer for the bland masses. no taste, no body, bitter after-taste. if they stopped making it tomorrow, no one would notice.

    There's nothing especially wrong with Bud

    try a guiness, or a corona with a slice.

    [ Parent ]

    Oy (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by andgarden on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 09:00:55 PM EST
    To begin with, lots of people would notice if it disappeared. It's relatively cheap, widely available, and has an inoffensive taste. Not everyone can afford to drink imports, and it's fairly elitist to suggest it IMO.

    Guinness I personally find bitter, though I know many people who like it. As to Corona, well, I don't have any problem with it. But my understanding is that they don't shove a lime in the bottle in Mexico. I think the reason people started doing that here is because it often arrived skunked. A clear bottle will do that.

    [ Parent ]

    what is the best/ (5.00 / 1) (#58)
    by lilburro on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 09:12:50 PM EST
    cheapest import?  If you want to spend less than $20 per case domestic is your bag.  Negro Modelo is a little more expensive, I like that quite a bit.

    And now tis the season for yummy ales!  Though they'll fill you up like a Thanksgiving meal :(

    [ Parent ]

    Well, I'm not a beer expert (5.00 / 1) (#63)
    by andgarden on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 09:22:16 PM EST
    so I wouldn't know. I'd guess that the cheapest import would probably be Canadian, except that I think most "Canadian" beers are actually brewed here for the U.S. market.

    I like really weak beer, which is probably why I like cheap lagers. . .

    [ Parent ]

    Good cheap beer (none / 0) (#93)
    by CST on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 09:36:37 AM EST
    The best is Pabst by far.  Bud - you are right it's very clean - but it's also like water that way.

    Yuengling rocks, especially when it's 50 cents at happy hour in the burgh'.  I really miss those prices...

    [ Parent ]

    but not a Bud Light... (none / 0) (#44)
    by jeffinalabama on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 07:32:01 PM EST
    they give me a headache for some reason.

    [ Parent ]
    I prefer Miller Lite (none / 0) (#57)
    by lilburro on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 09:09:36 PM EST
    over Bud Light.  I agree, Bud Light is just really bad.  And I used to like Coors Light...but when I bought a case recently I regretted it.  So gross!

    I don't recall Yuengling being as popular 5-10 years ago as it is now...correct me if I'm wrong.  It really took off I think (at least on the East Coast).

    [ Parent ]

    Yuengling is a favorite of mine (5.00 / 1) (#64)
    by andgarden on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 09:24:34 PM EST
    It's a PA special, and persists mostly because of the archaic distribution system there.

    [ Parent ]
    Don't knock Bud Cans.... (none / 0) (#94)
    by kdog on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 09:46:41 AM EST
    nothing better after a hard fought touch football game..

    You don't want Hoegarten or Guinness or Stella Artois at a time like that...you want a Bud or a Pabst or some Miller High Life....ice ice cold, goes down like water.

    [ Parent ]

    Peanut Butter (5.00 / 2) (#66)
    by cal1942 on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 10:13:17 PM EST
    and lower cost breakfast cereals have, in the past, sold better during tough times and for obvious reasons.

    Less beer more corn flakes.

    [ Parent ]

    Inferior goods! (5.00 / 1) (#67)
    by andgarden on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 10:19:40 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Budweiser was purchased by InBev (5.00 / 3) (#48)
    by inclusiveheart on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 08:01:55 PM EST
    A Belgian company.  They're cutting jobs because they have a headquarters in Belgium already and don't need to maintain the St Louis Bud HQ as it was.  These cuts were predictable when the sale went through this past summer.

    [ Parent ]
    New Belgium (none / 0) (#84)
    by easilydistracted on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 07:03:12 AM EST
    Best domestics: anything from the New Belgium Brewing in Fort Collins, Colorado: Fat Tire, Blue Paddle (it is especially good.  Boulevard (brewed in Kansas City) is not bad either and its beginning to show up around the US.  

    [ Parent ]
    I love Fat Tire (none / 0) (#97)
    by ruffian on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 10:35:45 AM EST
    On of the worst things about moving from Colorado is the unavailablility of Fat Tire, or Avalanche (that from the Breckenridge Brewing Company.

    On the other hand ,I've lost weight not drinking beer.

    [ Parent ]

    Isn't that the truth (none / 0) (#100)
    by easilydistracted on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 11:10:03 AM EST
    I cut back on beer consumption about a year ago. Lost about five pounds just in the first week. Beer really packs it on, especially those heavy ones, i.e. Fat Tire. Come to think of it, do ya think that's why they named it such? Hmmm

    [ Parent ]
    Not quite sure of your residence (none / 0) (#101)
    by easilydistracted on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 11:12:22 AM EST
    but some of the new belgium brews are beginning to show up further and further from Colorado. Pretty much available everywhere in Kansas, Texas and most parts of MO. Also beginning to appear in SoCal.

    [ Parent ]
    Supreme Court (5.00 / 0) (#47)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 07:46:29 PM EST

    Its too bad that the Supreme Court did not take the Obama birth cert case and swat it out of the park.  The nuts that brought it are worse than 911 Truthers.

    F-18 crashed in San Diego about a mile (5.00 / 1) (#68)
    by oculus on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 11:15:06 PM EST
    from my house.  At least three people on the ground were killed.  One unaccounted for.  Several houses and more vehicles burned.  Pilot bailed at the last minute, parachuted into a tree, is in hospital.  Practicing carrier take offs and landings from Miramar.  

    Yikes (5.00 / 1) (#69)
    by andgarden on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 11:26:52 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    WTH? (none / 0) (#83)
    by Fabian on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 04:35:48 AM EST
    Mechanical?

    Hard to imagine it was pilot error unless the pilot was really effed up.  Has this happened before?

    [ Parent ]

    A retired military pilot (5.00 / 1) (#95)
    by oculus on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 09:58:34 AM EST
    saw the plane go down and went looking for the pilot, who sd. he "lost" one engine over the ocean, head to Miramar, "lost" second engine. It has happened before, afterall, they are practicing.  But not that close to my house.  

    [ Parent ]
    Oh, and ... (none / 0) (#4)
    by The Poster Formerly Known as cookiebear on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 05:29:45 PM EST
    OU's going to kick Florida's ass! Might as well give up now!!!

    My gal is flying back from Miami Basel... (none / 0) (#8)
    by Salo on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 05:37:46 PM EST
    ...tonight.

    She had... (none / 0) (#9)
    by CoralGables on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 05:40:12 PM EST
    perfect weather

    [ Parent ]
    I'm jealous (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by andgarden on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 05:41:07 PM EST
    It's freezing up here.

    [ Parent ]
    Not bad out sans wind (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by nycstray on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 05:46:02 PM EST
    with the clouds moving in :) I was just out with the dog and didn't even need my gloves. Last night, 'nuther story!

    [ Parent ]
    And Great Sales (none / 0) (#11)
    by squeaky on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 05:42:10 PM EST
    30% - 50% off, is what I hear.

    [ Parent ]
    it was rotten apparently (none / 0) (#22)
    by Salo on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 06:04:52 PM EST
    The arts are the pit canary.

    [ Parent ]
    Important Russia/India News (none / 0) (#27)
    by Dalton Hoffine on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 06:17:35 PM EST
    It's in the Asia Times--don't think it's been picked up here yet to any large extent, but it's big news: Russia's going to lease India a nuclear submarine and $700M in enriched uranium in exchanged for increased cooperation in the Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO), energy resources, and geopolitical support in the Caucus Region.

    Here's the link.

    Big things are brewing with Russia. I just finished my article on it and sent it off to my first publisher, so I hope I'm able to get it in. (Any of you at the University of Wisconsin, I'd love a kind word. :P)


    From BusinessWeek (none / 0) (#51)
    by ding7777 on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 08:49:19 PM EST
    101 Best Web Freebies
    BusinessWeek.com scoured the Internet for the most useful free products and services available online that you probably don't know about


    Wow, thanks (none / 0) (#79)
    by Spamlet on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 03:17:38 AM EST
    Just spent the last half hour browsing through that marvelous collection of free stuff.

    [ Parent ]