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Roman Polanski Seeks Dismissal of 30 Year Old Case

Director Roman Polanski, now age 75, has filed a new motion to have the sex assault charges against him dismissed. His motion alleges prosecutorial and judicial misconduct, revealed in a recent HBO documentary on the case. The statements were made by the deputy DA on the case and a judge. The victim in the case, then 13, now 43, has wanted the charges dropped for years, and still does.

In a legal brief, the attorneys quoted heavily from the documentary, citing statements by former Deputy District Attorney David Wells in which he acknowledged advising the judge on how to sentence the film director, even though he was not assigned to the case.

The lawyers said that Wells' recommendation to send Polanski away for a diagnostic study was illegal without Polanski's lawyers present. They said Wells also inflamed the judge by showing him photos depicting Polanski with girls at an Oktoberfest party in Germany while he was awaiting sentencing. They said the photos were misrepresented.

More...

"As the result of DDA Wells' illegal ... communications, Mr. Polanski has been subject to a punishment that has spanned the course of over 30 years," the motion stated, noting he has been deprived of opportunities to work on films outside France.

My view (and not just based on the documentary): Drop the charges and let Roman come home.

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  • Display: Sort:
    Ummmm (5.00 / 2) (#20)
    by jarober on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 05:30:58 AM EST
    He fled the country after negotiating a plea bargain.  Doesn't exactly ring up as "deserving of mercy" to me.

    What about a compromise (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by joanneleon on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 06:35:49 AM EST
    of having him get probation and community service, or some such arrangement?  Dropping the charges completely seems to set a precedent that fleeing the country is a viable solution.  On the other hand, I can see the reasoning that his punishment was being exiled from the U.S.  Somehow, just dropping the charges doesn't seem like the right thing to do, unless the charges were unjust in the first place.

    I really wish someone would exile (none / 0) (#42)
    by oculus on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 11:57:21 AM EST
    me to France.

    [ Parent ]
    the court should rule (5.00 / 3) (#25)
    by cpinva on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 06:57:26 AM EST
    on the merits of the issues raised by mr. polanski's attorneys. unfortunately for mr. polanski, there is the small matter of him having already plead guilty, then fleeing the country to avoid sentencing.

    if this was any other person, this would probably account for a single column inch of newspaper space. either we're all treated equally, or we aren't.

    i remember when this case first was tried. hopefully, in the ensuing 30 years, mr. polanski has learned to take his lawyer's advice, and shut up in public.

    I've seen (5.00 / 2) (#26)
    by bocajeff on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 07:20:17 AM EST
    many defense attorneys on this site argue that the victim (or the victim's family) should have no say as to what happens to the criminal - funny how that gets mentioned as a good thing when it benefits the criminal.

    IMO, he raped a girl and fled the country to evade the law. The only reason he would really care at this point is so he can come back into the country he voluntarily and illegally fled. His name can never be cleared because he DID rape the girl.

    He's a good director, who cares? Why support a child rapist?  

    I've been watching (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by Fabian on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 08:02:05 AM EST
    PBS' series on great art and the artists.

    Even reaching the highest honor an artist could hope for, commissions from the Pope himself, couldn't save an artist who broke the law.  A nation owes no person more than their rights, even if they are "national treasures".

    (Mostly I loathe the argument that someone who is  convicted "has suffered enough" as if the person who broke the law is a victim.  Let them file a civil suit if they need compensation for their "suffering".)

    [ Parent ]

    Are you insane? (5.00 / 1) (#62)
    by Claw on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 01:46:31 PM EST
    Come down to Reedsville in GA and I guarantee you will come away with a different opinion on whether someone can suffer enough.  I've seen clients who can't finish interviews because they just weep uncontrollably the whole time. We're about one step away from burning at the stake.  

    [ Parent ]
    I separate (none / 0) (#66)
    by Fabian on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 01:58:19 PM EST
    the state of the prison system from the judicial system that put them there.

    You have to.  Otherwise you can conclude that the entire system is unfair and ought to be trashed.  I'm all for improving the prisons and actually rehabilitating inmates.  Frankly, I think that every person who enters the prison system should be screened for mental illness and literacy so we can treat them and teach them.  

    [ Parent ]

    Okay (none / 0) (#96)
    by Claw on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 05:19:25 PM EST
    I don't agree with you but you make an interesting point.  I doubt most who help you carry the no-such-thing-as-suffering-enough banner share your nuanced view.
    And--just to argue--how can you seperate the prison someone is going to be going to if it's the judicial system that lands someone there.

    [ Parent ]
    No he didn't. (none / 0) (#30)
    by rooge04 on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 08:18:42 AM EST
    That's the great misconception. He DID serve time. The judge agreed when he pled out that that would be his punishment.  A few days before allocution, the judge changed his mind.   After reading about this and watching the documentary, I must say I would have run too. Polanski was railroaded.

    [ Parent ]
    Gimme a break (none / 0) (#59)
    by Claw on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 01:39:15 PM EST
    The main reason the victim's opinion is mentioned here is because it's unusual for a victim in a case like this to have the opinions this victim apparently does.  It isn't "funny" in the way you mean; it's funny (strange) because grown women don't usually side with the scary 75 year old "child rapist."  

    [ Parent ]
    Let's see, (5.00 / 3) (#28)
    by Lacy on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 08:09:57 AM EST
     as I recall, Polanski actually was receiving special treatment, both for being a Hollywood name and for having his wife murdered by the Manson gang.

    And it was unusually special considering that he was an adult who connived to seperate a 13 year old girl from her mother, drugged her, and then raped her. That would be 20 years of hard time in my jurisdiction...maybe "life".

    But Polanski fled the country anyway to avoid receiving even that special treatment that he was destined to receive.

    I'm searching my liberal leanings for sympathy but they seem to be locking over fugitive child rapists looking for special favors.

    I hope they let him back in. (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by Dalton Hoffine on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 09:39:55 AM EST
    Polanski was railroaded by this judge and prosecution team oh so long ago. He served time in jail, 42 days, and then the judge up and backed out on the plea bargain, because he was afraid that he would be viewed as being too lenient on Mister Superstar, even though they already had a deal struck. He spent time in a mental institution as well, something else which fell through the cracks.

    Essentially the sentencing in this case was never enough. It was an ongoing work of art as opposed to anything that could be acted upon concretely or anything that had an ounce of credibility. He wound up fleeing the country because the constant run-around to protect the judge's name and ego wound up becoming torturous. The DA played on the judge's fears by riling him up while Polanski was awaiting sentencing in the first place... it became a cat and mouse game, where the cat wanted the mouse to die in the most painful way possible.

    There was most certainly judicial and prosecutorial misconduct in this case, and it's enough to let Polanski back in with his own time already served. The victim wants the rape charges dropped, so drop them. This is an old case, a famous case, and with a droppage of all charges, there can finally be some closure for all involved.

    How about using the appellate (none / 0) (#43)
    by oculus on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 12:00:25 PM EST
    process?

    [ Parent ]
    If I'm not mistaken (5.00 / 1) (#49)
    by Dalton Hoffine on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 12:33:53 PM EST
    That was attempted and blocked, if I'm not mistaken. He plead guilty which, you can't appeal your own guilty plea, and then the motion to have a new judge was railroaded by the prosecution and denied by another judge.

    I suppose in the end there's a question as to whether or not one can really trust the judicial system to deliver justice in all cases. I'd say 95% of the time, yes, but this might be one of those 5% of the time scenarios where it grossly miscarried.

    [ Parent ]

    Judicial and/or prosecutorial (none / 0) (#55)
    by oculus on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 01:04:20 PM EST
    misconduct:  habeaus.  

    [ Parent ]
    Sodomizing & drugging a 13 y.o. (5.00 / 2) (#34)
    by No Blood for Hubris on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 10:00:21 AM EST
    child, who is, of course, unable to give consent, is rape.  How hard is that?

    He did a deal, agreeing to a much lesser charge, with few consequences, then got cold feet when he feared the judge would renege on the slap on the wrist punishment.

    I have zero sympathy for Polanski.  I wonder why anyone would.

    Sounds like the judge was wrong. (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by Fabian on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 10:07:16 AM EST
    But Polanski also acted like a coward, in more than one way.  If Polanski wants to come back, let him face the music.  

    [ Parent ]
    Roman Polanski Raped a 13 Year Old (5.00 / 3) (#37)
    by BDB on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 10:56:12 AM EST
    Sorry, but I can't stand all this "he's a national treasure" crap.  And while I normally give the "he's innocent until proven guilty" benefit to people that presumes those people stick around for a trial.  When you go on the lam for decades, it's kind of hard for me to be sympathetic that you never got your day in court.  Moreover, as many people seem to have forgotten, Polanski had agreed to plead guilty, but fled when he feared the sentence.

    And while the victim may agree the charges should be dropped, to my knowledge she has never recanted her version of events or agreed that Roman Polanski did not rape her.   And, yes, that's the right word for what she alleges.

    As for the Europeans are different, the victim was 13, which is under the age of consent in France and other Western European countries.  Moreover, here's the important part that so many of Polanski's defenders leave out - the victim says SHE DID NOT CONSENT.  From her testimony:


    The girl testified that she left the Jacuzzi and entered a bedroom in Nicholson's home, where Polanski sat down beside her and kissed the teen, despite her demands that he "keep away." According to Gailey, Polanski then performed a sex act on her and later "started to have intercourse with me." At one point, according to Gailey's testimony, Polanski asked the 13-year-old if she was "on the pill," and "When did you last have your period?" Polanski then asked her, Gailey recalled, "Would you want me to go in through your back?" before he "put his penis in my butt." Asked why she did not more forcefully resist Polanski, the teenager told Deputy D.A. Roger Gunson, "Because I was afraid of him."

    You can read her testimony .  

    Polanski may be a fine director, but that does not make him a good or decent person.  

    I Don't Care If They Drop the Charges or Not (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by BDB on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 11:04:16 AM EST
    to be clear.   Drop them or not, but I refuse to allow male privilege (and that's what I consider the argument that a grown man can have consensual sex with a 13-year-old, one for male privilege)  and celebrity to airbrush away the seriousness of the allegations against him.

    [ Parent ]
    This is not a case... (5.00 / 1) (#52)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 12:48:33 PM EST
    ...of "male privilege" anymore than any of the numerous cases of female teachers being involved with their young male students being about "female privilege".  

    It's about sick individuals with dysfunction and improper judgement/morals.

    Let's leave the broadbrushed sexist connotations out of it.  

    [ Parent ]

    Thank you jeebus - a voice of reason and sanity (none / 0) (#48)
    by Dr Molly on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 12:20:31 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Or Is It (none / 0) (#50)
    by squeaky on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 12:39:02 PM EST
    A kneejerk reflex of burn him at the stake?

    Seems like kneejerk to me.

    [ Parent ]

    I was thinking... (5.00 / 1) (#53)
    by kdog on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 12:49:07 PM EST
    the victim seemingly has moved past it, why can't we?

    Not defending at all what Polanski did, it's pretty f*cked up.  Just that it was 30 years ago, he apparently hasn't had an incident with young girls since, the victim says drop it...what exactly is the point besides a blind allegiance to law and order?

    [ Parent ]

    IMO... (5.00 / 1) (#56)
    by Dr Molly on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 01:05:36 PM EST
    Expecting a child rapist to be accountable for his criminal behavior is not a kneejerk reaction, nor is taking offense at apologists for him.

    It is not surprising that we have different viewpoints on this, and either viewpoint could be considered kneejerk (e.g., expecting accountability or defending him) depending on one's perspective I suppose. From my perspective, there are predictable kneejerk reactions from predictable commenters to defend/excuse the indefensible, and I'm sure from yours, it is quite the opposite.

    :)

    [ Parent ]

    I Am With Jeralyn (none / 0) (#58)
    by squeaky on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 01:25:23 PM EST
    On this. Polanski was looking at a possible life sentence due to the misconduct.

    He has not been allowed to step foot in his home country for 30 years, because of the misconduct of a judge. Even the prosecutor thought it misconduct.

    Polanski was cooperating, pled guilty until he got wind of the insanity.

    I for one am thankful that he had the good sense to get out of Dodge.

    [ Parent ]

    I understand. (5.00 / 1) (#60)
    by Dr Molly on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 01:40:27 PM EST
    As I said before, I well understand that we have very different moral compasses and viewpoints on these kinds of issues.

    Drugging and raping a 13-year-old - that's where my attention focuses. To you, he's a national treasure; to me, he's a national disgrace.

    C'est la vie. :)

    [ Parent ]

    Got It (none / 0) (#61)
    by squeaky on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 01:46:06 PM EST
    Burn 'em at the stake. No need for judge, or jury, because your moral compass says so.

    BTW- I assume your notion of lockup in this case is pure punishment, no? Pound of flesh concept, no?

    If not what would locking up Polanski for 50 years have served?

    Now, 30 years later, what would locking up Polanski serve besides appeasing your moral compass?

    [ Parent ]

    I think you are stretching your argument (none / 0) (#63)
    by oculus on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 01:48:58 PM EST
    too far.  50 years?  Polanski, armed with privately-funded defense counsel, could have chosen to return to the U.S. at any time.  He didn't.  

    [ Parent ]
    Good Thing (none / 0) (#70)
    by squeaky on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 02:03:22 PM EST
    Not sure that you followed the story. The Judge was looking to make a high profile example of him for obvious self serving reasons. He was appealing to the moral compass of mob rule, and 50 years would have suited the mob, if TL comments are a fair example. I have no doubt that Polanski would have been sentenced to an extraordinary prison term upwards of 30 years.

    It appeared that the typical 16 months to 3 years sentence, at the time, was not on the table.

    [ Parent ]

    Am I mistaken? Didn't Polanski (none / 0) (#71)
    by oculus on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 02:05:45 PM EST
    plead to statutory rape?  

    [ Parent ]
    Yes One Count (none / 0) (#74)
    by squeaky on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 02:13:53 PM EST
    And he faced up to 50 years in prison. He cooperated until he realized that he was not going to be treated as his fellow peers, 16 months to 3 years.

    Made the right choice, imo.

    [ Parent ]

    I can't believe the California (none / 0) (#75)
    by oculus on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 02:21:44 PM EST
    Penal Code ever provided for a max state prison sentence of 50 years for statutory rape.

    [ Parent ]
    From The Linked WaPo Article (none / 0) (#76)
    by squeaky on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 02:25:32 PM EST
    He was initially indicted on six felony counts and faced up to life in prison. Instead, he pleaded guilty to one count of unlawful sexual intercourse with a minor and five other counts were dismissed.

    Polanski, who had already been incarcerated for a psychological diagnosis for 42 days, skipped sentencing that would have sent him back to prison, and fled to France. The judge issued a warrant for his arrest that is still in effect.

    The maximum sentence was 50 years, although prosecutors had said at the time that the typical sentence was 16 months to three years in prison.



    [ Parent ]
    Also (none / 0) (#79)
    by squeaky on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 02:40:23 PM EST
    Polanski was released after 42 days of his 90-day term, but here the story gets complicated. Polanski had been led to believe by Rittenband that after Chino, his time behind bars would be over. However, the judge was overheard boasting at his country club that he would put Polanski away "for 100 years"

    [...]

    Rittenband was eventually removed from the Polanski case, but was heard declaring, when he stepped down from the bench in 1989, that he would get Polanski yet.

    [...]

    As far as Geimer is concerned, the case is closed: Polanski settled out of court with her in 1993. She now lives and works in Hawaii, has been married for 18 years and has three children. She finally went public in the US in 1997, appearing on TV and forgiving Polanski. She also made a statement in the LA Times in 2003, saying the film-maker should be allowed to return to the US: the longer he remained a fugitive, she said, the longer she would have to live with the story. Zenovich was impressed by Geimer when they met: "Everyone is so caught up in what happened, and she's the one it happened to, and she got past it."

    .

    independent

    [ Parent ]

    Ah. "Settled out of court." (none / 0) (#82)
    by oculus on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 02:49:36 PM EST
    Why am I not surprised?

    [ Parent ]
    Really deficient reporting (none / 0) (#84)
    by oculus on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 02:58:55 PM EST
    both in Washington Post and LA Times (and here, actually), as none of these sources quotes California Penal Code section 261.6 as it read on the date of Polanski's actions.  Not too surprising, as I haven't been able to find the information on line.  Where are the annotated codes when I need them?  

    [ Parent ]
    Erratum: "261.5." (none / 0) (#86)
    by oculus on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 03:00:23 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Note: state trial judges in CA (none / 0) (#80)
    by oculus on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 02:41:48 PM EST
    must stand for election after appointment.  

    [ Parent ]
    Kay, I'm done now. (none / 0) (#69)
    by Dr Molly on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 02:03:20 PM EST
    Look - I tried to pleasantly disagree with you and simply agree to disagree. We have very different perspectives on these issues, as I said, and that's OK.

    Predictably, we now have your weird aggressive hyperbole about 'pounds of flesh' and 'burn him at the stake', which has nothing to do with what I said. (This is what I meant by saying that 'kneejerk' is in the eye of the beholder.)

    Some people, like many of the commenters on this thread, see a long incarceration for drugging and raping a child as appropriate accountability for a heinous and hurtful behavior that for too long has been tolerated in our society with too much leniency and doesn't seem to be going away anytime soon. Others, perhaps like you and kdog and jeralyn and others, see it as unnecessary and serving no purpose, and/or focus more on the legal aspects than the morality of the criminal behavior. OK - I think I said this like 3 times now - different moral standards, different ideas about what to do about these things, different opinions.

    Luckily, we're all allowed to have different opinions here in 'murica, and on blogs and such, and I don't need your approval to hold mine. So, you can have your morals and opinions, and I'll have mine, OK? Have a great day. :)

    [ Parent ]

    BS (none / 0) (#73)
    by squeaky on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 02:11:39 PM EST
    It does not follow that if I believe Polanski should be free, I am a deeply immoral person that believes it is fine for an adult to rape a 13 year old. That is aggressive, and dishonest.

    And my question again, what would incarcerating Polanski today achieve for you?

    It appears that you are seeking vengeance, punishment, aka a pound of flesh. Is that incorrect?

    [ Parent ]

    He has not been allowed to step foot in his (5.00 / 1) (#64)
    by Angel on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 01:49:22 PM EST
    country because HE FLED his country in a cowardice action.  If the judge was screwing him around then he had rights to appeal.  He RAPED a 13-year old girl.  He was a forty-something year old man who knew what he was doing was wrong.  He even asked her about her period and birth control pills and chose how to do it to her.  He knew what he was doing when he did it.  This is despicable. I don't care if he's a genius or has an IQ of 10, he's a rapist and needs to suffer the consequences of his actions.

    [ Parent ]
    Go find him in France... (none / 0) (#68)
    by kdog on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 02:03:01 PM EST
    if it means that much to you, I can respect that.

    Just don't drag us all down in your quest for vengeance.

    [ Parent ]

    kdog, do you see a difference (none / 0) (#72)
    by Dr Molly on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 02:06:09 PM EST
    between vengeance and accountability? (Serious question, not snark, trying to understand.)

    [ Parent ]
    I do... (none / 0) (#77)
    by kdog on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 02:32:02 PM EST
    see a difference.  I just think we can find a way to hold people accountable without being so full of vengeance.

    I would consider time in jail (though short, I grant you), time in a mental institution, time in exile, and the loss of the ability to do his work as holding Polanski plenty accountable for his wrong-doing.  

    [ Parent ]

    I don't consider his "time in exile" (5.00 / 1) (#81)
    by Angel on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 02:43:17 PM EST
    to be punishment.  He chose to flee.  He's had a great life in France.  He's made movies, won awards, he married again and fathered two children.  He's been free to do just about anything anyone could do except return to the US.  If that's punishment then give everyone that punishment.

    [ Parent ]
    To me he was not in exile (5.00 / 1) (#103)
    by Amiss on Thu Dec 04, 2008 at 12:40:26 AM EST
    He fled this country, where he was a visitor, where he had violated a child in some of the most demeaning sexual ways that a child should not be a party to. He was born in Paris, he had a home in London, which he sold because he was afraid of extradition, and lives between France and Poland where he is not.
    He was a VISITOR to this country and he violated a child. No he should not be able to return after that, ever. Children are our most precious commodities and he used her as his plaything.Depraved Indifference to this child disqualifies him from my sympathies.

    [ Parent ]
    It does seem, in these times of (none / 0) (#104)
    by oculus on Thu Dec 04, 2008 at 12:43:11 AM EST
    heightened security concerns, any applicant for a U.S. visa who has a felony conviction would be summarily denied.  

    [ Parent ]
    Except (none / 0) (#107)
    by squeaky on Thu Dec 04, 2008 at 01:01:32 AM EST
    That you do not need a visa (three months pleasure visit) from

    Andorra, Austria, Australia, Belgium, Brunei, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Iceland, Ireland, Italy, Japan, Liechtenstein, Luxembourg, Monaco, the Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Portugal, San Marino, Singapore, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, The United Kingdom*, and Uruguay.

    link


    [ Parent ]

    Great Life (none / 0) (#83)
    by squeaky on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 02:51:23 PM EST
    From your perspective. Go for it yourself then, move to France and let that be your prison for life. Maybe you have a better outlook than Polanski. His mother was killed in Auschwitz. He escaped the Warsaw ghetto and lived on the street. Then his 8 month's pregnant wife, Sharon Tate was murdered by Charles Manson.

    Obviously Polanski does not share your fantasy. Maybe it is because he has a different background than you.

    [ Parent ]

    You don't know my life - currently, growing up (5.00 / 1) (#85)
    by Angel on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 02:59:18 PM EST
    or otherwise. Because these things happened to him does not excuse his behavour - raping a 13-year old girl then fleeing the country because he was afraid of his punishment.  But you're right, I do have a different perspective on life than many - precisely because I have survived so much.  Those things are none of your business, but suffice it to say that things happened to me that would curl your toenails if you knew. I don't make excuses for my behavour and he doesn't get to either.  

    [ Parent ]
    Not Surprised (none / 0) (#87)
    by squeaky on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 03:06:02 PM EST
    About your life. Needless to say my point is what may living the life of Riley to you, obviously is quite different in Polanski's shoes.

    He wants to come back to the US. His exile in France is not as you portray it, for him.

    [ Parent ]

    How do you know what his life is like to him? (5.00 / 1) (#90)
    by Angel on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 03:13:04 PM EST
    You don't.  But by all appearances he is living the life of Riley - your words.  He's married, has children; he's making movies; he's winning awards; he has plenty of money; he has friends; he can travel, except to the US; he can do pretty much whatever he damn well pleases to do.  I feel soooo sorry for him.

    If he wanted to live in the US then he should have thought about that before (1) he raped a 13-year old girl; and (2) he fled to his home country of France.  

    [ Parent ]

    Huh? (none / 0) (#92)
    by squeaky on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 03:27:06 PM EST
    You are the one who imagines what it is like to be Polanski, living it up.

    All I know is that if his life were as great as you project, he would not want to return to the US.

    [ Parent ]

    Yes, by all accounts he does live it up. (5.00 / 1) (#93)
    by Angel on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 03:38:11 PM EST
    And his wanting to return to the US has nothing to do with the quality of his life in France.  He hasn't said he wants to live in the US, he only wants to be able to visit here, presumably for his work.  

    [ Parent ]
    I see (none / 0) (#78)
    by Dr Molly on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 02:40:15 PM EST
    I think sometimes people on this blog misconstrue those who want to hold people accountable for deeply heinous and hurtful behavior as merely seeking vengeance. I do not think that is the case mostly. I think instead that they are just deeply focused on the pain and suffering such behavior continues to wreak in our society and they wish our society would begin to show zero tolerance for it. I honestly don't think it's about personal vengeance.

    [ Parent ]
    Understandable... (5.00 / 1) (#88)
    by kdog on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 03:08:37 PM EST
    And on the flip, those like me and squeaky aren't fans of rapists and murderers, I assure you.  We just don't want society, the system, the courts, etc. to stoop to the depths of the lowest and most heinous among us.

    The system must be worlds better than the most depraved and heinous of our species. I can stomach maniacs murdering and raping (we really don't have a choice), I just can't stomach the state committing murder and enabling rape in our overcrowded prisons.  In my eyes it is worse when crimes are committed by a faceless, soul-less bueracracy.  I find most people are the opposite...they can live with the system grinding people up, but they lose it when a blonde girl goes missing.

    As we argue about Polanski...how many female inmates were assaulted or raped, how many males got it in the arse in the showers?  How many of them really needed to be placed in a cage?  How many people got the shaft in courts that are supposed to serve and protect them?  My heart and soul tells me to worry about them, and not worry about whether Polanski was held accountable enough or not.

    [ Parent ]

    Hmmm. (none / 0) (#91)
    by Dr Molly on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 03:21:00 PM EST
    I see some of what you're saying, but disagree in predictable places I guess - such as being able to stomach maniacs murdering and raping (especially defenseless children), and seeing crimes by the 'system' as somehow worse than crimes committed by individual human beings.

    I'm not much in favor of incarceration for non-violent crimes like drugs or those made out of economic desperation like non-violent robbery, but I'm definitely in favor of serious accountability for those who willfully hurt others, especially victims who are intrinsically defenseless - I have no sympathy at all because these crimes are completely borne out of the basest instincts of privilege and contempt for the suffering of others (as in Polanski's case) and our society needs to do whatever it takes to stop sending the message that this can be gotten away with. For example, I think sentences for rape and sexual abuse should be much much more severe. This is not about vengeance or burning at the stake or mob justice though.

    Interesting, and now I really have to stop thinking about this and get to work.

    [ Parent ]

    The USA is not his (5.00 / 1) (#97)
    by Amiss on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 05:51:42 PM EST
    home country. He may have adopted it, but he was not born in the US. He has been in his home country France. IMHO, this is where he belongs, we have no duty to let him back into the US.

    [ Parent ]
    Yes.. He is in France on a French (none / 0) (#98)
    by oculus on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 06:17:08 PM EST
    (now EU) passport.

    [ Parent ]
    He has French citizenship, has since 1976. (none / 0) (#100)
    by Angel on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 07:31:48 PM EST
    Born in France although his parents were Polish.  Moved to Poland when he was about 3 years old.  FWIW.

    [ Parent ]
    Where is TChris to remind us (5.00 / 2) (#45)
    by oculus on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 12:06:42 PM EST
    mom was a lousy parent?

    Low blow.... (none / 0) (#89)
    by kdog on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 03:12:31 PM EST
    but not for nothing...where the hell were this girl's parents, letting her hang out at Nicholson's place with Polanski at 13?

    Of course, this don't not in any way shift blame away from Polanski or justify his actions.

    [ Parent ]

    Pushy stage mom. (none / 0) (#94)
    by oculus on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 04:39:47 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    And what about Jack Nicholson (5.00 / 1) (#95)
    by oculus on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 05:15:50 PM EST
    and Angelica Huston?

    [ Parent ]
    According To This NYT Article (none / 0) (#101)
    by squeaky on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 09:45:17 PM EST
    She testified against him because the police found cocaine in her purse and let it go in exchange for her testimony.

    AT LUNCH WITH: Roman Polanski; A Life in Exile From America, From Memory

    [ Parent ]

    just to clear some stuff up (5.00 / 1) (#51)
    by txpublicdefender on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 12:44:11 PM EST
    Just to be clear, the misconduct committed by the ADA was not the ADA who was assigned to the case.  That ADA struck the deal, which was a pretty normal deal for the time, which involved pleading to one of the counts with no agreement as to punishment.  It was another ADA who was a friend of the judge's or something who butted his nose into it when the judge was worrying about how it all would look in the papers (the judge was a notorious, horrible publicity whore), and suggested that he send him upstate for the "mental evaluation," which Polanski complied with, and then, while awaiting a sentencing report, that same ADA showed that judge the picture of Polanski from the paper.  At that point, the judge was all pissed off and wanted to make a big show for himself and so let it be known that he was not going to sentence Polanski as recommended by the sentencing report, and so Polanski fled.

    The prosecutor who actually prosecuted the case also thought the judge acted inappropriately.

    I don't think Polanski should get any special treatment because of his artistic merit or his fame.  But, I do think he got screwed by the misconduct of the other ADA and the judge, and it may be sufficient to dismiss the case.

    FWIW, I had pretty strong negative opinions about Polanski re: this case.  Then, I saw the documentary.  I still think what he did was reprehensible.  But, I had a greater understanding of why he fled in the first place.

    I'm sorry, Jeralyn, but no. (5.00 / 3) (#57)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 01:23:31 PM EST
    I'm now going to speak from my gut as a victim of sexual abuse some 35 years ago, when I was age 13:

    Chinatown may be on my Top Ten list of all-time great films, but this was a very serious sex crime committed against a minor. I really don't care if the defendant is a genius who has since won an Oscar for his work.

    At 45 years of age in 1978, Roman Polanski had absolutely no business being sexually intimate with a 13-year-old girl, regardless of whether or not she was a willing participant in the act. Further, the man proved himself the coward by jumping bond and fleeing the country.

    If Polanski is sincere, let him return to Los Angeles, submit himself to the tender mercies of the court, and take his chances. I really can't see any rational judge putting him away in the joint at this point, and I'd like to think he'd instead get probation.

    Look, I'm not some heartless and uncompassionate being like Nancy Grace. But that said, I would still insist that he first needs to admit his guilt in court and then express his remorse publicly, and there needs to be an official record of both. After that occurs, I would not be displeased in the least to see him set free.

    Aloha.

    Hasn't he already "admitted his guilt (none / 0) (#65)
    by oculus on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 01:51:52 PM EST
    in court" via the plea of guilty to the underlying charge?  

    [ Parent ]
    Yes, he did. (5.00 / 1) (#99)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 06:33:23 PM EST
    But now Polanski needs to admit his guilt regarding his flight to France to avoid sentencing on the underlying charge, which in itself constitutes a serious criminal act. I apologize for not providing further clarification.

    [ Parent ]
    Has Polanski made a public apology? Or any (5.00 / 2) (#67)
    by Angel on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 02:01:52 PM EST
    kind of apology?  

    50 years (5.00 / 1) (#109)
    by Amiss on Thu Dec 04, 2008 at 01:18:10 AM EST
    according to the article I provided the link for above. He was charged with 6 felonies.

    For comparison, suppose an adult in (none / 0) (#1)
    by ThatOneVoter on Tue Dec 02, 2008 at 11:39:06 PM EST
    a Western European country had sex with someone under the age of consent---how harsh could the  penalty be?

    Penalty of rape in France (5.00 / 2) (#106)
    by Amiss on Thu Dec 04, 2008 at 12:59:04 AM EST
    The penalty for rape accompanied by cruel acts against any minor under the age of eighteen years old is life imprisonment.

    LINK

    [ Parent ]

    My view... (none / 0) (#2)
    by Jerrymcl89 on Tue Dec 02, 2008 at 11:45:01 PM EST
    ... is that he did something obviously illegal, plead guilty to it, and fled the country to avoid the consequences. I'd like to see a deal cut that resolves the issue, but I do think he ought to do some jail time.

    I mostly agree. Jail time for the (none / 0) (#3)
    by oculus on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 12:00:27 AM EST
    initial conviction may not be necessary.  Should be proportional to what happened to others convicted of the crime in that era.  But, he definitely should receive some time in custody for fleeing the jurisdiction.  

    [ Parent ]
    What about? (none / 0) (#4)
    by Jeralyn on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 12:33:34 AM EST
    He was jailed for 42 days while the DA insisted on the illegal psych eval. ordered without his attorneys having the opportunity to be present or heard.  

    How about a misdemeanor plea and time served?

    [ Parent ]

    I absolutely hate it when the defense (5.00 / 2) (#6)
    by oculus on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 12:41:15 AM EST
    attorney says, well, my client did many good works while he/she was on the lam from the law and you must take that into account, plus we need this person out on the streets to keep up the good work.  Just thumb your nose at the entire judicial system and you get a better deal than if you stuck around.  That isn't right.

    [ Parent ]
    If it happened today... (none / 0) (#32)
    by Exeter on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 09:09:43 AM EST
    It would probably be several years in prison. 30 years ago such a "consensual" relationship was not as taboo.  I would say let him come back and serve 30 days and be done with it.

    [ Parent ]
    I disagree with your assessment (none / 0) (#108)
    by Amiss on Thu Dec 04, 2008 at 01:13:31 AM EST
    and here is why

    LINK

    A grand jury has indicted Roman Polanski, director of "Rosemary's Baby" and other macabre movies, on six counts of drugging and raping a 13-year-old girl at actor Jack Nicholson's home.

    Conviction on the charges lodged Thursday could send Polanski to prison for up to 50 years. Polanski, 43, remained free on $2,000 bail and was given until Tuesday to surrender in Superior Court. Prosecutors said Polanski's attorney told them he would appear before then.

    The grand jury indictment superseded charges brought March 11 when the director was arrested in the lobby of the Beverly Wilshire Hotel where he was staying.

    The grand jury charged Polanski with giving a drug to a minor, committing a lewd act upon a person less than 14, rape of a minor, rape by use of a drug, oral copulation and sodomy. All the charges are felonies.



    [ Parent ]
    That's incorrect. (none / 0) (#29)
    by rooge04 on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 08:16:55 AM EST
    The deal was all set.  They had already pled out and agreed to a sentence...it was the time served (about a year in a mental hospital).   When he got out the judge RENEGED on the deal. The judge was a HUGE media whore. HUGE.  And it was the thought of keeping it going and pressure from others that made him go back on the original deal. The judge should have been disbarred.

    [ Parent ]
    Good For Polanski (none / 0) (#5)
    by squeaky on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 12:37:41 AM EST
    The charges should be dismissed, he is a national treasure and has suffered enough.

    Same for Phil Spector? I don't (none / 0) (#7)
    by oculus on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 12:42:52 AM EST
    think so.

    [ Parent ]
    What Does Phil Spector (none / 0) (#9)
    by squeaky on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 12:44:22 AM EST
    Have to do with Polanski?

    [ Parent ]
    Well, is he or is he not (none / 0) (#10)
    by oculus on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 12:45:14 AM EST
    a "national treasure"?

    [ Parent ]
    Sorry Don't Know (none / 0) (#11)
    by squeaky on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 12:46:46 AM EST
    Are you trying to change the subject?

    [ Parent ]
    Spector is again on trial for murder. (none / 0) (#13)
    by oculus on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 12:52:41 AM EST
    First trial ended in a mis-trial.

    [ Parent ]
    Yes, I Know (none / 0) (#14)
    by squeaky on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 01:02:31 AM EST
    So wtf does that have to do with Polanski asking for his charges to be dismissed because of prosecutorial and judicial misconduct?

    And what does Spector have to do with Polansk?

     I still do not get that connection.

    [ Parent ]

    You argued ... (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by cymro on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 02:22:40 AM EST
    that
    the charges (against Polanski) should be dismissed, (because) he is a national treasure and has suffered enough.

    Oculus questioned that reasoning, by asking if the same argument (national treasures who have suffered enough should have their charges dismissed) should also be applied to Phil Spector, who arguably fits your criteria.

    If you think it should, just say so. If you don't think so, what is your original point?

    [ Parent ]

    I don't like the (5.00 / 2) (#19)
    by Fabian on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 04:33:17 AM EST
    "Hey, this person is a really good person, so they should receive better treatment than Joe/Jane Lowlife!".

    Especially if Mister Upstanding Citizen deliberately evaded the law.  

    [ Parent ]

    "National treasure"... (none / 0) (#24)
    by lentinel on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 06:40:35 AM EST
    doesn't cut it for me because that's the way that our criminal chief executives like Nixon and Bush get off the hook. They're too important to get their pathetic carcasses placed in the pokey.

    If there was prosecutorial misconduct, no problem.
    New trial. Drop the charges. Whatever.
    But the "treasure" part, makes me uneasy.

    Speaking of national treasures, and at the risk of changing the subject, I always felt that we allowed Bobby Fischer to be hounded to death for no good reason. After exploiting him as a national hero during the cold war, we allowed our government to track him down, be put in jail in Japan, deny him an opportunity to make a living and to demonstrate his undeniable gift. And it was all based on the government going after him for money - not a violent crime.

    [ Parent ]

    Sorry (none / 0) (#47)
    by squeaky on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 12:19:29 PM EST
    I am not going there. I think that Polanski suffered enough. The circumstances of the trial, victim's wishes, and his life work, more than mitigate any threat Polanski is to the US, and more than mitigate the pending charges and pending sentencing.

    Comparing Polanski to a recording engineer/producer, is a waste of time and a red herring imo.

    If I were President I would pardon him.

    [ Parent ]

    Comparing Polanski to Spector is subjective (5.00 / 1) (#54)
    by cymro on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 01:03:29 PM EST
    You say that ...

    Comparing Polanski to a recording engineer/producer, is a waste of time and a red herring imo.

    ... but how you evaluate their relative artistic contributions is entirely subjective, depending on one's view of the relative importance of film and popular music.

    Wikipedia devotes an approximately equal amount of space to each of them, for example. And, just to quote a single data point:

    The 1965 song "You've Lost That Lovin' Feelin'," produced and co-written by Spector for the The Righteous Brothers, is listed by BMI as the song with the most U.S. air play in the 20th century.

    Has Polanski created anything having an equivalent impact on popular culture? So, for every argument film buffs might make about Polanski's importance, I have no doubt that music fans could make a similar case for Spector.

    That's why oculus was questioning your logic by using Spector as a counter-example. I think it's a very strong point, that you have to concede undermines your case -- unless you want to include Spector in your case for legal relief for for national treasures who have suffered enough.

    [ Parent ]

    This Thread Is About Polanski (none / 0) (#102)
    by squeaky on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 09:53:41 PM EST
    And his particular case. Not sure why Spector's case is relevant. Yes the current judge is the same, but this thread is about Polanski and misconduct during his trial.

    In another thread, or open thread we can debate the relative worth of different artists and their criminal histories. That list is long.

    [ Parent ]

    And in the meantime, then, ... (5.00 / 2) (#105)
    by cymro on Thu Dec 04, 2008 at 12:53:00 AM EST
    ... since we have not yet determined whether the condition of being a "national treasure" who has "suffered enough" is grounds for clemency, you will have to produce some new justification for your position that Polanski's case should be dropped.

    Which was the point that oculus was making.

    [ Parent ]

    If the victim wants the charges dropped (none / 0) (#8)
    by nycstray on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 12:44:02 AM EST
    why aren't they and then it's a done deal? Obviously I'm not a lawyer, so help me out here  :)

    It is really up to the trial court at (none / 0) (#12)
    by oculus on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 12:51:44 AM EST
    this point, as Polanski missed a court date.  

    [ Parent ]
    Criminal charges (none / 0) (#22)
    by joanneleon on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 06:31:39 AM EST
    aren't brought by the victim.  It's between the government and the person charged.

    [ Parent ]
    Yep... (none / 0) (#31)
    by kdog on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 08:47:41 AM EST
    supposedly charges are brought by "we the people".  But in reality, they are brought by District Attorneys, who may or may not be acting in the interests of "we the people".

    This person says let him come home...I don't think any young girls will be endangered by a 75 year-old Polanski.  Therefore, there is no good reason to lock him up.  

    [ Parent ]

    Well, (none / 0) (#36)
    by OldCity on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 10:07:53 AM EST
    you get punished for past, not future conduct.  So, the issue of whether he's threat to young girls isn't particularly germane.  (Though he did exhibit similar behavior with an underage Natassia Kinski...)

    I think he should come home, if they'll reinstate the earlier deal.  However, because he split, there has to be some punishment for that.  

    You seem to presume that laws are flexible items, that they contain discretionary language.  They rarely, rarely do.  The entire reason why we don't have referendums on most laws...except, apparently, on gay marriage, etc, is because the courts exist to protect the public from unconstutional laws, or the tyranny of the majority.

    [ Parent ]

    Call me crazy... (none / 0) (#38)
    by kdog on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 11:00:38 AM EST
    but I think cages should be reserved for threats.

    Do the courts protect us from tyranny or are they just another arm of tyranny?  I wonder sometimes...I guess it depends on the judge, in the case of Polanski the judge and the prosecutor appear to be arms of tyranny, and not protection from tyranny.

    [ Parent ]

    You'd better (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by OldCity on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 11:13:42 AM EST
    get yourself a crystal ball, then.

    What was that movie?  Minority Report?

    Cages are for those who have seen fit to disregard the rules we make for ourselves, who deviate from civilized behavior and inflict harm (broadly defined) on others.  Non-violent crime can be just as destructive as violent crime.

    As I read what you write, I don't sense any contemplation of larger considerations or consequence.  If you're truly analytical, you should exhibit that aspect of your thought process a bit more.  

    I keep seeing a very narrow, absolutist focus, perhaps colred by Objectivism, which is in itself unworkable.  (Rand, by the way, would have utterly deplored some of your espoused hobbies.)

    [ Parent ]

    I am an admitted freedom extremist... (5.00 / 1) (#46)
    by kdog on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 12:13:31 PM EST
    but I do try to contemplate the consequences of the greater freedom I constantly advocate for, I think that is more of a case of me not being much of a writer, and internet forums not being an adequate replacement for a face to face discussion.

    In the case of the repeal of drug prohibition, my biggie as an example, I see more upside than down, while readily admitting the down.

    Oftentimes, I don't see the doomsday scenario others envision from a more free society less focused on punishment.  Doesn't mean it wouldn't be doomsday, but I just don't see it.  I'd be down to give it a shot.

    I guess I just hope human beings will evolve past archaic forms of punishment like chains and cages.  Kinda like how we don't use leeches to treat a fever anymore.

    [ Parent ]

    I thought only CIVIL cases could be dropped (none / 0) (#15)
    by shoephone on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 01:41:20 AM EST
    when the "victim" or plaintiff wanted it dropped. But, correct me if I'm wrong, aren't criminal cases a different story because they are tried by the DA on behalf of "the people"?

    In this case, it looks and sounds like the judge and DA seriously crossed the line, ethically. And personally, I think Polanski has probably paid enough.

    Incidentally, one Saturday morning back in the late 70's, two friends and I sat at the table right behind Polanski in a famous Beverly Hills deli while he was awaiting trial on that charge. After overcoming our initial shock at seeing him there, we wondered why his arm was in a cast...

    Coming from a Cast Party? (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by squeaky on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 01:59:25 AM EST


    [ Parent ]
    lol ;) (none / 0) (#18)
    by cymro on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 02:25:07 AM EST


    [ Parent ]
    What purpose is served (none / 0) (#21)
    by kindlingman on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 06:23:18 AM EST
    ...by the court if it seeks to punish at this point in time? Does the god of Law never forgive nor forget?
    And who would serve such a god?

    It appears to me that both parties in the original event have moved on but the court system still holds a grudge.  

    He would be sentenced under the (none / 0) (#44)
    by oculus on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 12:05:47 PM EST
    criminal statute as it was at the time he committed the crime.  Probably 3 years max prison term, or, the court could give him up to a year in local custody.  But, the court has discretion to impose no time in custody.  The failure to appear could be sentenced separately, based on FTA statute.