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Friday Morning Open Thread

By Big Tent Democrat, Section Blog Related
Posted on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 10:07:45 AM EST
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A snowstorm is expected here in New York. How's the weather where you are? This is an Open Thread.

BTW, Franken moves into the lead in the Minnesota Senate race.

< What The GOP Is | Franken Takes Lead in MN Senate Race >

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    No to Fairness doctrine, yes to footnote doctrine (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by samtaylor2 on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 10:23:44 AM EST
    I was thinking about the fairness doctrine while I was chillin in my car and was thinking it would make no sense and would be impossible to enforce.  However, what I think should be put in place is a footnote doctrine.  

    I was listening to Air America, and some conservative talk radio station switching back and forth, both of which were talking about labor costs.  The Conservative host sited 70 something dollars an hour and the Air America host, sited 20 something dollars an hour.  It seems that these stations (as well as television) should have to site their sources for "facts", while at the same time being free to yell their opinion at each other without government involvement.

    That would certainly be nice... (none / 0) (#15)
    by kdog on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 10:47:09 AM EST
    I often wonder where they pull some of their facts and numbers from on the talk shows, tv or radio.

    I don't know if it calls for another law though, people just need to realize that talk tv and radio is not journalism, and they are not held to the same ethical standards as journalists...and form their opinions accordingly.

    Parent

    Heh (none / 0) (#19)
    by Steve M on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 10:53:50 AM EST
    Unfortunately "real journalism" can be pretty loose with the facts too, albeit not as bad as talk radio.

    But the bottom line is, we're very lucky to be living in an Internet age where you can easily double-check any sort of factual claim, consult multiple sources, and figure out for yourself who is telling the truth.

    None of it matters, though, unless you actually utilize your powers of human skepticism.  The ability to question and scrutinize is a gift from God and it's a pity more people don't use it to its fullest potential.

    Parent

    I don't agree about the ability (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by ThatOneVoter on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 10:57:46 AM EST
    to  determine facts via the internet.
    In fact, as time passes, I find it MORE difficult to search out information on crucial topics, because of the burgeoning number of articles.
    For instance, if you start from scratch, I think it is more difficult today to determine the truth about US knowledge of WMD in Iraq, or about what happened in Florida in 2000.


    Parent
    The only problem (5.00 / 2) (#44)
    by cal1942 on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 11:31:50 AM EST
    is that the overwhelming majority of people won't do the necessary research.

    I agree though that common sense should enable us to be skeptical about much of what we hear and read.  

    The $70 per hour for auto workers makes no sense but right-wing talk radio never bothers to explain the legacy costs associated with those numbers and too many of their listeners are eager to believe and WANT to believe the $70 number.

    Bush certainly didn't help when he demanded parity pay with foreign assembly operations in this country. The actual difference is probably no more than 1 or 2 dollars per hour but the GOP would just love to break the unions and will take shots at any opportunity.

    Parent

    I hear you Steve... (none / 0) (#35)
    by kdog on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 11:15:26 AM EST
    the ethics of real journalism ain't what they should be.

    Heck, ethics ain't what they should be in general, but I'm not sure if that's new.  It feels like ethics in general are slipping, but that may be a case of every generation thinking the same thing...."society going down the tubes".  Every generation thinks it, but we're still here.

    Parent

    You mean all the places like... (none / 0) (#72)
    by MoveThatBus on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 12:36:26 PM EST
    Gawker?

    Parent
    Are you sure about that? (none / 0) (#79)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 01:06:39 PM EST


    Parent
    It would allow people to (none / 0) (#83)
    by samtaylor2 on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 01:36:23 PM EST
    challenge their statements quickly and directly (on both sides).  I think it would lead to a louder middle ground.

    Parent
    The problem is that both numbers are right! (none / 0) (#90)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 03:00:44 PM EST
    The $20 number is a wage rate or wage and benefit rate for new hires.

    The $70 number is labor cost rate.

    Both are correct.  BTW, the labor cost at the Japanese transplants is a tad under $50 an hour.  Labor costs include more than just wages.

    It is fairly pointless to discuss wage rates without discussing productivity and non-wage labor costs at the same time.  

    Comparing any of these numbers is a bit of a distraction.  The real issue is labor cost per vehicle produced.  On that score GM is said to have an average $2,000 higher labor cost.  At that number Toyota can give you the same vehicle only with ten speaker sound, fog lamps, and a GPS and still under price GM.

    You can take one thing to the bank though, the UAW's 5000 odd pages of work rules are not about improving productivity.

    Parent

    Thanks -- the misinformation on this (none / 0) (#116)
    by Cream City on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 06:28:35 PM EST
    is crazymaking, considering the importance of this debate and decision.  These are about the figures I've found for what the employee gets vs. what the employee really costs the employer in that industry -- I saw something (Wall Street Journal story, I think) like $27 and $76 for U.S. autoworkers, but about the same $50 for actual cost of Japanese autoworkers without the UAW's massive benefits.

    Would that we all had that benefit package.  We used to in other U.S. industries, of course. . . .

    Parent

    Majel Roddenberry... (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by desertswine on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 10:24:00 AM EST
    has also died.

    Sad news! (none / 0) (#8)
    by addy on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 10:31:59 AM EST
    I hear she was able to finish her voice work on the new Star Trek. Can't wait till it comes out.

    Parent
    This is why (5.00 / 4) (#9)
    by lilburro on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 10:36:36 AM EST
    Warren sucks and is not an opportunity for dialogue:

    headline from Miami Herald

    "Obama defends call on invocation"
    President-elect Barack Obama has defended his selection of megachurch pastor Rick Warren to deliver the invocation at his inauguration, saying that he disagrees with the minister's opposition to abortion and same-sex marriage but that there should be room for "dialogue" on such difficult social issues.

    Oh yes, it's such a "difficult social issue" to determine whether gay relationships are equivalent to incest!  Obama wants to start a dialogue ...but guess what, it's going to be started on Warren's terms.

    I'm so glad we get to spend the next FOUR YEARS arguing whether gay marriage will lead to bestiality and polygamy with Huckabee and Warren and crew.  That is definitely the way I wanted to get this dialogue going.  

    Thanks for massively f*cking up Obama.

    Can we start a dialogue on banning (5.00 / 2) (#10)
    by ThatOneVoter on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 10:38:04 AM EST
    religious instruction to children under 12?
    That is a difficult social problem, IMO.

    Parent
    No. (5.00 / 2) (#14)
    by lilburro on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 10:45:40 AM EST
    We need a federally funded investigation into whether the Earth was created 6000 years ago.

    Too bad in Obama's "amazing statement!" last night about his fierce advocacy for gay rights, that he didn't mention he completely disagrees with the tone of Warren's comments, with the substance of Warren's comments, with the impact of Warren's comments.  I guess Warren just isn't "disagreeable."

    I actually know he isn't "disagreeable" to Obama, because he's giving the invocation.

    Smile when you hate us and we'll let you hate!  K?

    Parent

    Oh, and we can fund (5.00 / 2) (#25)
    by ThatOneVoter on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 11:02:07 AM EST
    research into the cognitive/developmental effects of fundamentalist religious instruction on young children. Surely it's all good news in that area!

    Parent
    Just as long as I don't have to... (5.00 / 3) (#29)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 11:06:15 AM EST
    ...read or watch anything about the Duggers anymore or ever again.

    Although, they are probably a perfect test group.

     

    Parent

    18 kids now (5.00 / 2) (#47)
    by Amiss on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 11:36:10 AM EST
    as of yesterday.

    Parent
    As if the gene pool (5.00 / 2) (#51)
    by oldpro on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 11:45:52 AM EST
    weren't in enough trouble.

    Parent
    Those People (none / 0) (#100)
    by CDN Ctzn on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 04:05:45 PM EST
    are truely sick. How does one morally validate having a family of that size in this day and age?
    I'm assuming they are pro-life, so why not start adopting some of the kids they are advocating against teen mothers aborting. "Be fruitful and multiply" was directed at an entire race, and not just one family.

    Parent
    That's not the worst part. (5.00 / 1) (#113)
    by Fabian on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 06:08:46 PM EST
    They believe any contraception is man interfering in the Will of God.

    However, they have used intensive medical support for both pregnancies and premature infants.  That isn't considered interfering with the Will of God.

    (Women are advised to go at least a full year between pregnancies.  It's very hard on the body and frequent pregnancies raises the risk of complications.)

    Parent

    funny how (none / 0) (#115)
    by lilburro on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 06:16:30 PM EST
    the "Will of God" is the will of gay...i.e., let's get it on.

    Parent
    Actually that's a brilliant idea! (none / 0) (#18)
    by ThatOneVoter on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 10:52:47 AM EST
    Spending a few million on a serious investigation of whether the earth and universe are 6,000 years old could be great! Writing that report would be sweet revenge for a scientists taking part.
    I suggest a second project could be a federally funded investigation into the conspiracy at Nicaea, where the Romans made a coup against Christianity.

    Parent
    All that science and all that truth (5.00 / 2) (#61)
    by KeysDan on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 12:04:13 PM EST
    will not help in these dialogs we are supposed to be involved with:  some of these 'dialogers' just will not like your pesky old facts.

    Parent
    But there are so MANY facts (none / 0) (#89)
    by ThatOneVoter on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 02:48:15 PM EST
    supporting the old earth theory. A 5,000 page report is easily possible.


    Parent
    LOL (none / 0) (#20)
    by Dr Molly on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 10:54:21 AM EST
    Obviously, you two have not yet visited the Creation Museum - where all is already explained.

    Parent
    You guys think... (none / 0) (#24)
    by kdog on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 10:58:33 AM EST
    the gay community and the religous communities would be agreeable to the compromise I mentioned yesterday...in a nutshell, no state or the fed recognize any marriage, only civil unions. Individual couples and communities would be free to call their committed relationships whatever they want.  The word marriage would be erased from the law books, replaced by civil unions.  Gays get equal rights and the holy rollers get to keep their precious word "marriage".

    Why can't that work?  

    Parent

    It can't 'work' simply because (5.00 / 1) (#45)
    by oldpro on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 11:34:21 AM EST
    you'll never get marriage out of the law books, state by state.

    Think ERA.

    The pro church/state people are not going away.

    Parent

    I hear you.... (none / 0) (#48)
    by kdog on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 11:36:40 AM EST
    once something goes in, it is oh so hard to get it out.

    Parent
    How about civil unions for (5.00 / 2) (#60)
    by sallywally on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 12:02:42 PM EST
    nonsexual partners? Say, a couple of same sex folks who choose to live together and are fully committed but have no sexual involvement, just to be sure they can care for each other when/if needed, and give their money to each other under the privileges of marital succession after death?

    Like Denny and Allan on Boston Legal! I loved it!

    Parent

    Sounds good to me... (none / 0) (#62)
    by kdog on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 12:07:46 PM EST
    as someone who plans to be a lifelong bachelor, that might come in handy.

    Single people do kinda get screwed in some ways, taxation comes to mind...maybe if me and one of my gambling partners became a "partnership", we'd get a break on some taxes:)

    Parent

    No way no how (5.00 / 1) (#64)
    by cenobite on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 12:15:13 PM EST
    This would be fought by the right as "the evil liberals and gays outlawing marriage." Unfortunately, large numbers of non-wingnut americans will buy that line completely.


    Parent
    Pardon my ignorance, but (none / 0) (#26)
    by ThatOneVoter on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 11:04:52 AM EST
    what is the difference now? Some people get only civil marriages. How do their benefits differ from proposed benefits for gays  with civil unions?

    I actually favor a different idea, which I believe may be used in other countries, which is that one can acknowledge civil unions for a variety of purposes---for instance, in a caretaker relationship---which would give partners needed benefits. I don't actually give a fig about the title of "marriage".
    The name doesn't matter to me---the  rights do.

    Parent

    That's what I say too... (none / 0) (#40)
    by kdog on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 11:22:58 AM EST
    who cares what its called as long as everybody has the same rights and priveledges that go with "marriage".

    If you take some of the less loony anti-gay marriage people at their word, they don't seem to want to deny rights, they want ownership of the word "marriage" for their respective religions.  I'd call that petty, but whatever...lets get those rights and let 'em have their stupid word.  To do that, I think we need to get the government out of the marriage business.

    Parent

    Yes, if Obama wants to (5.00 / 7) (#53)
    by sallywally on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 11:49:03 AM EST
    bring us all together, why doesn't he have someone do the invocation who DOES bring us all together, instead of someone who separates us?

    But that would likely be a progressive, wouldn't it?

    That's why he should be extolling and illustrating the virtues of progressivism instead of acting like intolerance and narrowness are acceptable views in the national discussion.

    He is using the wrong big tent.

    Parent

    There are so many religious leaders (5.00 / 3) (#63)
    by ruffian on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 12:14:14 PM EST
    doing good work in their communities all over the country. Surely Obama met a lot of them in his campaigning. One of them would have been a perfect choice. Or how about one of the many ministers involved in the Civil Rights Movement?

    The choice of Warren was purely political, and Obama should not be surprised to be taking political heat.

    Parent

    GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA (5.00 / 2) (#70)
    by lilburro on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 12:28:18 PM EST

    "This is not a gay issue, this is not about abortion, it's about every aspect of sexual equality and dignity," says the feminist writer and philosopher Linda Hirshman. "This is about every woman who supported the president-elect, not just the gay ones and not just the ones needing abortions." After all, Warren is not just anti-abortion--he is anti-egalitarian. A page on his Web site Pastors.com, a resource for his fellow Christian leaders, features a woman named Beth Moore explaining and even celebrating the necessity of wifely submission. "God granted women a measure of freedom in submission that we can learn to enjoy," she explains. "It is a relief to know that as a wife and mother I am not totally responsible for my family. I have a husband to look to for counsel and direction. I can rely on his toughness when I am too soft and his logic when I am too emotional."

    -michelle goldberg

    Parent

    Thank-you Beth Moore... (5.00 / 1) (#74)
    by vml68 on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 12:45:42 PM EST
     for letting me know that I am just an emotional, weak, needy woman who needs her man's firm guidance in life. Wow, that really is a relief. I was so confused the whole time my parents were raising me to believe that I was equal to and in some instances better than a man.

    Parent
    When I am too emotional.... (none / 0) (#78)
    by Fabian on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 12:56:09 PM EST
    Blech.

    When I am "emotional" it rarely means I am all soft and soppy.  Usually, it's quite the opposite.  Mellow is my usual demeanor.  Emotional?  You wouldn't like me when I get emotional.

    Parent

    It reminds me of Baptist (5.00 / 3) (#80)
    by lilburro on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 01:24:25 PM EST
    Sunday School (which I at one point attended).  This crap is worse than Sarah Palin!!  She was evangelical, but at least she wasn't meek.

    Parent
    Wonderful news for Science Lovers! (5.00 / 4) (#11)
    by Dr Molly on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 10:38:53 AM EST
    1. According to AAAS, Obama will choose John Holdren as science advisor - a Harvard physicist and outspoken critic of the Bush administration's attacks on climate change and science in general.

    2. Obama's selection to head NOAA is Jane Lubchencko, an ecologist, marine biologist, and enviromental advocate.

    3. Word from transition team is of big budget increases coming for federal agencies funding science.

    Happy Friday.
    Here in Chicago (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by Dr Molly on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 10:55:32 AM EST
    Ice, snow, frigid, schools closed, power is out, no heat, fire in fireplace, kids sleeping late, cup of tea, still in PJs but catching up on work, happy as a clam.

    14 inches of snow here, 3 more (5.00 / 4) (#49)
    by Cream City on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 11:38:14 AM EST
    on the way with the "lake effect" you know, too -- and my son and future daughter-in-law, our Australian alien (as you can imagine, she of the land never below 50 degrees is FREEKED by this wintry weather so early again this year) are in Chicago and will be heading up the lakefront 150 miles to home.  Eventually.  Whenever we can figure out the narrow window of opportunity after the salting of the icing, after the snowing and blowing dies down . . . but before the next wave expected.  Yikes.

    Daughter had to go to work today downtown, a restaurant -- and bless her for her professionalism in being there as day manager, since she and the entire day crew are being laid off in two weeks (another story; it has been quite a week here).  But since son has our four-wheel drive, spouse drove daughter in her four-wheel drive, so we would have it.  Saw many cars and even buses stuck in intersections. . . .

    Why did spouse need the four-wheel to drive today?  Because he finally acceded to age and climate change that gave us a record snowfall level last year, and we're ahead of that pace this year.  I.e., we finally bought a snowblower yesterday.  But this morning, before ever using it, he discovered that he had lost the key.  The absent-minded prof does that sort of thing a lot.  There is the story of us finally finding his keys one day in the powder room sink.  Don't ask. . . .

    So -- in what will be one of my favorite stories of his absent-mindedness -- he had to shovel the 14 inches of snow to get to the four-wheel to drive to the store to get another key for, yes, the snowblower.  By the time that he returned, I already was out again with the shovel, helping  elderly neighbors who would not wait -- not that they're going anywhere, but I guess every minute is precious at their age.  No one is going much of anywhere here today . . . except for spouses who shovel out to be able to get out to get keys for snowblowers so as to not have to shovel out. . . .

    Parent

    Funny! (5.00 / 2) (#55)
    by Dr Molly on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 11:51:56 AM EST
    I imagine you'll be teasing him with that story for a very looooooong time!

    Parent
    Hope the power comes back soon. (none / 0) (#33)
    by Fabian on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 11:13:42 AM EST
    In the winter you worry about heat, the summer about food.

    This fall, schools and other institutions were hit hard with millions of dollars of losses due to food spoilage.  (Hurricane Ike in Ohio.)  Some schools had to delay opening because they couldn't get enough food for lunches.  Schools had to toss their food and their suppliers were in the same bind.  Naturally, suppliers in unaffected areas weren't ready to meet the sudden demand.

    We are currently comfortable.  Rain, no ice, sleet or snow.  Not taking anything for granted though.

    Parent

    Power just came back on (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by Dr Molly on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 11:17:21 AM EST
    :(

    Now I have to stop my Woman Against the Elements routine and put away the lanterns, blankets, candles, etc.

    I'm strange that way - everyone else hates winter here but I love it.

    Parent

    Should (5.00 / 4) (#46)
    by cal1942 on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 11:34:56 AM EST
    mention that Mark Felt passed away yesterday at 95.

    A toast to Mark Felt.

    Caroline Kennedy, political activist, (5.00 / 1) (#57)
    by oldpro on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 11:52:41 AM EST
    forgot to vote on a number of occasions...or so I hear this ayem.

    Heh.

    Yep she neglected to even vote (5.00 / 2) (#97)
    by Amiss on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 03:36:19 PM EST
    for the seat she seeks in the senate. The Democrat registered at her current address on Manhattan's Upper East Side in 1988. According to Board of Elections records, she missed several Democratic mayoral primaries in 1989, 1993, 1997 and 2005.

    She also skipped the 1994 general election, when Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan was running for re-election. It is the same seat she hopes to take over if Clinton is confirmed as secretary of state in the new administration.

    Really dedicated public servant. Gives you an idea how many votes she would show up for in the Senate, I believe.


    Parent

    She's gotta be at least as qualified as Franken. (none / 0) (#99)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 04:04:18 PM EST


    Parent
    At least he's running for (5.00 / 3) (#104)
    by oldpro on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 05:00:34 PM EST
    the office...a big step beyond lobbying for it.

    Parent
    She would have had to run against Clinton, (none / 0) (#105)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 05:07:27 PM EST
    I guess.

    Now there's a primary matchup for the history books.

    Parent

    Zero contest (5.00 / 1) (#109)
    by gyrfalcon on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 05:50:08 PM EST
    Caroline may be a good person, but she's about as unready politically as they come.  Her few public comments since she started this have been inept, to say the least.

    Parent
    I agree, I was mostly refering to the (none / 0) (#110)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 05:53:37 PM EST
    picture of a Kennedy and a Clinton duking it out on the stump.

    Parent
    Oh Jeralyn... (5.00 / 1) (#71)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 12:31:36 PM EST
    ...did you see this?

    Gov. Bill Ritter this morning named Grand Junction lawmaker Bernie Buescher as Colorado's new Secretary of State.

    He will replace Mike Coffman, who was elected to Congress last month.

    http://tinyurl.com/3geegw

    I think that paves the way for him to appoint Andrew Romanoff to the vacant Senate seat.  Doesn't look good for DeGette--but I'll still spring for the cup o' coffee is she does get it.

    Here in Kuwait... (5.00 / 1) (#75)
    by rghojai on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 12:48:57 PM EST
    Sunny and tack-sharp clear today, high of 61, now (9:48 p.m.) 46.

    Sounds wonderful! (none / 0) (#92)
    by gyrfalcon on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 03:10:45 PM EST
    What are you doing in Kuwait?


    Parent
    An interesting article in this week's... (5.00 / 1) (#81)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 01:30:53 PM EST
    ...New Poland Express (via e-mail, no link)

    Up to ten thousand Polish women
    went to Britain for abortions last
    year, according to a report by the
    Polish Federation for Women and Family
    Planning.

    With strict laws making access to
    abortion highly restricted, Polish women
    have been flocking to the UK, finding
    temporary work enabling them to get a
    National Insurance Number, registering
    with a local doctor and then having the
    operation or an abortion pill.

    With terminations being allowed up
    to as late as 24 weeks into pregnancy (a
    figure considerably higher than in many
    other EU countries which normally refuse
    abortion after 12 weeks), and with the ease
    of getting an abortion pill, the UK is seen
    as an attractive destination for women
    looking to terminate their pregnancy...

    ...At the moment, abortion in Poland is only
    possible if the pregnant woman's life is at risk
    or if the pregnancy is the result of rape.

    But whereas the story has caused an
    outflow of angered debate among pro-lifers
    in Poland, the issue, according to some
    Poles, is not over the rights and wrongs of
    abortion; it is over the poor quality of sex
    education in the country.

    "Poles receive very little sex education.
    Many young women in the country
    indulge in the belief that they will not get
    pregnant if they do not want to. Research
    carried out by SKIM Analytical showed
    that only 13 per cent of Polish women
    decided to see their doctor before having
    sex for the first time, while 40 per cent do
    not use contraceptives at all," Aleksandra
    Lojek-Magdziarz, editor-in-chief of the
    monthly magazine Link Polska writes in
    her Guardian blog.

    This, say critics, is due to the heavy
    influence of the strongly anti-abortionist
    views of the Catholic Church in Poland.
    "With sex education being taught by
    religious studies teachers, young people
    in the country have very little in the way
    of comprehensive information," Violetta
    Nowacka from the Women's Institute in
    Poznan told NPE.
    On a tangential topic, (5.00 / 1) (#86)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 01:42:21 PM EST
    I heard a report on NPR or something last night that the average Russian male can expect to live to only 59, and that there are more abortions in Russia each year than live births.

    Parent
    wow. (none / 0) (#85)
    by lilburro on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 01:40:32 PM EST
    What a mess.  And that's what the Bush admin. is STILL proactively trying to create.

    Parent
    Yep.. (5.00 / 1) (#87)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 01:54:11 PM EST
    ...sad, frightening, frustrating and maddening no matter how you look at it.

    It is a cautionary tale for us here in the States as people (like W) keep pushing for more restrictions and less education.

    You can't legislate abortion out of existence and it is foolhardy to think that not giving young people the information they need is going to solve the problem.

    Parent

    Sounds like what happens in (none / 0) (#88)
    by vml68 on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 02:11:09 PM EST
    the middle-east. Most arab countries don't allow abortions so the women go on "vacations" to India and other south-east asian countries for it.

    Parent
    6 degrees in VT (5.00 / 1) (#93)
    by gyrfalcon on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 03:16:10 PM EST
    and heading down below zero overnight.  And snowing-- again-- estimated 4-6 on top of the 6-8 we already have on the ground, and apparently a real biggie coming this Sunday.

    The country roads are kept wonderfully clear by our small-town road crews out here, so the only problem I have is my fairly steep driveway, which I will end up having to pay to get plowed out 4 times in less than two weeks.  Arrrgh.

    Glad I have plenty of wood for the stove in the woodshed attached to my house and on my enclosed porch.  I only wish I could persuade the cats not to sleep right on the stone hearth in front of the stove door...

    gyrfalcon (none / 0) (#102)
    by Dr Molly on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 04:39:32 PM EST
    I love Vermont. My dream is a farm somewhere near Middlebury. Do you cross country ski by any chance?

    Parent
    I do not (5.00 / 2) (#107)
    by gyrfalcon on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 05:47:00 PM EST
    though where I am, about 15 miles SW of Middlebury in the middle of farmland, would be great for it.  But I find that hauling and splitting my wood supply, the snow shoveling, etc., is about as much strenuous winter exercise as I'm really up for, and next year I'll be adding tending a small flock of chickens to that, too.

    The Champlain Valley is wonderful, so different from the rest of Vermont, it almost looks like a different state, with its open country and gently rolling land.

    And there's always a good supply of nice, modestly priced (relative to Eastern metro areas, anyway) properties on the market here...

    One of the very nice things about the Champlain Valley is that the heavy clay soil makes it impossible to have houses very close together, except in the few spots that are served by some kind of muncipal sewage system-- if you take my meaning!  So the chances of waking up one day to discover you have near neighbors are close to zero.

    Parent

    Yes, it is so beautiful there (none / 0) (#118)
    by Dr Molly on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 07:05:56 PM EST
    I applied for a job once at Middlebury U. so I could move there to paradise but didn't get it. But I fell in love with the area during my interview days there.

    Parent
    Cold and icy all week in Portland (none / 0) (#117)
    by caseyOR on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 06:51:53 PM EST
    We are kind of winter wimps here. Temperatures below freezing shock us. This last week, however, has been a doozy, and it will only get worse. It has been so cold that the de-icer used by the road crews doesn't work. Salt doesn't work either. Schools have been closed. Yesterday it went above freezing for a time. Things melted; people rushed to the store. Today was okay at sea level (downtown and east Portland) but terrible at the higher elevations. More people at the grocery store.

    Tomorrow we get 6 inches of snow. And we cap it off on Sunday with an ice storm. And, finally, on Tuesday the temps rise above freezing, and rain returns. Expecting lots of power outages.

    Lots of make-up days will be added to the end of the school year.

    Parent

    Last nite... (5.00 / 1) (#103)
    by desertswine on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 04:50:42 PM EST
    on the local ch. 13 news, they had a story about the Wall Street scam-artist Maddof. The graphic on the bottom of the screen read "POTZI SCHEME"..
    haha.. at least it didn't read "FONZI SCHEME."
    Mmmm (none / 0) (#108)
    by gyrfalcon on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 05:47:43 PM EST
    Did they spell Madoff correctly? :-)


    Parent
    30 degrees warmer today. (none / 0) (#1)
    by ThatOneVoter on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 10:11:39 AM EST


    Time when Blgo will give press conference today (none / 0) (#2)
    by Saul on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 10:17:19 AM EST
    Anybody know what time today.

    3PM Eastern - Jeralyn has a post... (none / 0) (#27)
    by oldpro on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 11:05:34 AM EST


    Parent
    We are at 17 this morning (none / 0) (#3)
    by addy on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 10:17:51 AM EST
    and covered with about 8 inches of snow. I am wondering how the people who abandoned their cars are the highway yesterday will get them back.
    Forecast for us is snow for the next 4 days, in the low 40's for Christmas.

    Paul Weyrich died.... (none / 0) (#4)
    by sallywally on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 10:20:19 AM EST
    anyone know why? No mention of a cause anywhere I looked, and not that old.

    Could the dissolution and total control of conservatism by Palinites have destroyed him? Proved his total failure in the end.

    He didn't want W and Palin to be his last words, did he?

    He was 66 (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 10:23:41 AM EST

    The cause of death was not immediately known, but Weyrich had faced a number of medical crises over the last dozen years, including diabetes and the amputation of both legs in 2005.

    Not in good health for quite a while.

    Parent

    Diabetes with serious complications. (none / 0) (#16)
    by Fabian on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 10:48:54 AM EST
    Depending on how long he had been diabetic and whether his diabetes was well controlled, 66 might actually be good.

    I knew someone who was a "reformed" diabetic.  He had lost both legs below the knee due to the effects of poorly controlled diabetes.  He cleaned up his act and got along well on his prostheses, working full time.  That's a happier ending than most who don't control their diabetes.

    Parent

    for a type I diabetic, 66 is quite good. (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by ThatOneVoter on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 10:54:43 AM EST
    My father became diabetic in 1928 at the age of 6. That was good timing on his part, because a few years earlier and he wouldn't have lived more than a couple of months. He lived to be 56, which was (unfortunately) quite good for the time.

    Parent
    In an interview I heard with him in the fall (none / 0) (#12)
    by ruffian on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 10:40:37 AM EST
    he was very happy with Palin.  In fact, I think he pushed her forward in the veepstakes. But maybe the ultimate failure of that plan did not help his health.

    Parent
    Thanks to all for the information! n/t (none / 0) (#56)
    by sallywally on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 11:52:22 AM EST


    Parent
    Sunny and 75 (none / 0) (#13)
    by ruffian on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 10:42:35 AM EST
    Here in Orlando...lovely day!!

    Winter here is the only thing that makes the summers bearable - and I'm still not sure it really balances out.

    Cloudy and 60s (none / 0) (#17)
    by kenosharick on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 10:51:49 AM EST
    just outside Atlanta. Just talked to my sister-in-law who lives 30min. north of Milwaukee. They cannot get out of the house. They have been buried in snow and are seriously discussing moving to a milder climate. I am on my way up there next week and dreading it.

    I'm sure there (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by Fabian on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 11:06:10 AM EST
    are properties right on the Gulf Coast for dead cheap, although you might want to invest in an hurricane proof ark.

    Parent
    I live on the Florida (none / 0) (#95)
    by Amiss on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 03:26:42 PM EST
    Gulf coast, and yes, I dont know of a block that does not have at least one house for sale and many blocks all of the houses are for sale.

    Depressing.

    Parent

    I was thinking further west (none / 0) (#111)
    by Fabian on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 06:01:53 PM EST
    in the hurricane ravaged areas.

    Sorry to hear FL is that bad.  What's the problem?  Are people cashing in their second homes?

    Parent

    Great deals available in Orlando real estate (none / 0) (#31)
    by ruffian on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 11:09:10 AM EST
    Wish I were buying now and not 3 years ago. Big mistake.

    Parent
    Hey Rick, it's great sledding! (none / 0) (#122)
    by Cream City on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 08:18:13 PM EST
    We have fourteen inches of snow in Milwaukee, the fluffy stuff, so great powder for sledding -- as a houseful of soggy twenty-somethings attest downstairs here, where they just stripped down to the longjohns, put the top layers in the dryer, and settled in for hot chocolate and pizza after hours of fun on our lakefront bluff aka "killer hill."  

    It was hellacious driving, although even worse in Chicago with an ice storm there.  But we did have to shut down the city today, since the storm hit here late and made the morning rush a mess.  But by afternoon, when the stores opened, we were back in business.  And tomorrow will be a wonderful window of opportunity to get out to stores and concerts and caroling and all the usual holiday hullabaloo before, you guessed it -- another half a foot of snow coming this weekend.  Last year was an alltime record, and we're ahead of that one already here. . . .

    But yeh, dangerous wind chills follow that storm.  So if you're coming in Monday, it will be bitter.  Then it bounces back up to the balmy 20s for a wonderfully white Christmas -- on my street of Victorian painted ladies and lovely English Arts and Crafts houses, it looks like a postcard tonight.

    Parent

    The snow is great to look at (none / 0) (#129)
    by kenosharick on Sat Dec 20, 2008 at 08:49:05 PM EST
    but I would rather stay here where it's a little warmer and there is no snow. This is my second winter in the South, and though I hate summers, I do not miss snow at all!

    Parent
    Snow snow snow in NE PENNA (none / 0) (#30)
    by BarnBabe on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 11:07:02 AM EST
    Started falling in the Pocono Mountains outside Scranton around 10AM. 8 Hours to go. Coming down hard. Already 2 inches on the ground. Expecting 10 plus. 27 degress and feeling warm. Staying only another hour at the office and heading home before it gets really slippery. Another storm on Sunday with ice and then a White Christmas Eve.

    Brrrr...low 20s and shockingly sunny (none / 0) (#32)
    by oldpro on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 11:12:57 AM EST
    today following days of grey skies and fitful snowstorms driven by winds 'right off the glacier.'

    Wierd.  Frigid.

    Weather-wimp refugees to the 'moderate-climate Northwest' are having a tough time this week.  Lots of grumbling and whining.  We've got to start screening these people before they move here.

    Glad to hear (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by Fabian on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 11:17:30 AM EST
    you aren't one of the whiners.  I heard reports of the fair weather residents too.  I just laughed.  We can get anything here, even a hurricane!  Snow, ice storms, floods, droughts, heat waves, whatever.  The whiners should move here - then they can whine year round!

    Parent
    Hey! be nice.... (5.00 / 1) (#59)
    by vml68 on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 11:56:15 AM EST
    we whiners have feelings too... :-)
    It is snowing right now in Jersey city but not the heavy snowfall that was predicted.
    As someone who was born and raised in some of the hottest places on this planet, I absolutely loathe cold weather. But what I find hardest to deal with is grey skies....no sunshine puts me in an absolute funk!

    Parent
    Vitamin D! (5.00 / 1) (#91)
    by gyrfalcon on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 03:08:35 PM EST
    Some recent study found something appalling like 40 percent of people in the US are Vit. D. deficient.  One of the effects of D deficiency is mild to moderate depression, as well as inadequate immune function.

    My understanding is that in northern latitudes, it is literally impossible-- not hard, impossible-- to get enough Vit D from sun in winter, even if you spent the whole day outside in the nude.

    I've been taking 2,000 IUs of D daily in winter and it's made a very noticeable change in my general state of mind.


    Parent

    Really? (none / 0) (#94)
    by andgarden on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 03:25:10 PM EST
    I think most milk is fortified with Vitamin D, so it's hard to see why there should be so many problems.

    Parent
    cuz some like me (5.00 / 1) (#96)
    by Amiss on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 03:28:50 PM EST
    just dont drink that much milk. My hubby on the other hand drinks enough for 3 or 4 people.

    Parent
    Milk is only minimally (5.00 / 1) (#98)
    by gyrfalcon on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 03:58:45 PM EST
    fortified and most people don't drink it after childhood in any quantity anyway.

    The med establishment is also coming to the conclusion that the old recommendations for D are way too low.  (There was just an article about the government considering upping the minimum pretty dramatically.)  Plus, most of us are running around slathered head to toe with heavy-duty sunblock.  The irony of that is that Vit D is one of the things that helps skin repair damage so it doesn't turn into cancer.

    I got into this when a friend with multiple medical problems being sorted out was given a Vit D level test by her physician and came up grossly deficient.  It's nothing I ever even thought about before, but she ended up doing a bunch of research on the subject that made me a total believer, and I've never been into supplements and herbals and all that stuff.

    Parent

    Interesting (none / 0) (#101)
    by andgarden on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 04:07:28 PM EST
    Personally, I'm rabidly opposed to alternative "medicine," so I'm glad to see that it was a real doctor who caught the problem and suggested the treatment.  

    Parent
    Hee hee! (5.00 / 2) (#112)
    by gyrfalcon on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 06:04:54 PM EST
    You're opposed to alternative medicine?  That's a pretty funny statement.  If you mean you're not into goofball herbal and magnet theories with no scientifically demonstrated value, that's one thing.  But there's a pretty wide range of stuff from the "alternative medicine" realm that's gotten incorporated into standard medical treatments as the medical establishment has caught up to it.

    You do realize aspirin was once "alternative medicine," bark chewed by native Americans for pain relief, that's turned out not to be so "alternative"?  Or how about acupuncture, which works on race horses, even though there's no conceivable "placebo effect" on them?  Or meditation, which Dr. Herbert Benson, cardiologist in Boston, has renamed "the relaxation response" and has been found to be hugely beneficial in reducing stress in vulnerable heart patients?  And then there are leeches and maggots, which are being used now in many top hospitals to drain hematomas and cleanse wounds, bee stings that are now proven to have an effect on rheumatoid arthritis.

    The list goes on...

    The medical establishment is incredibly hidebound and slow to acknowledge change.  The list of stuff they've been doing for years that turns out not to be effective and often enough actually damaging also goes on, starting with hysterectomies and radical mastectomies and on through disc surgery, post-menopause hormone therapy, etc.

    My friend was being pushed out of medicine and into the psychiatric department when the one doctor thought to test the Vit. D. level.

    Putting blind faith in the medical establishment makes no more sense than putting it in anything else.


    Parent

    Alternative medicine to me (none / 0) (#114)
    by andgarden on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 06:13:37 PM EST
    is anything that is not evidence or research based. Homeopathy, for example, is alternative "medicine." Most of the herbal treatments are too.

    Acupuncture I wouldn't use, personally. Nor Chiropractic.

    Parent

    The reason that there isn't (none / 0) (#125)
    by Fabian on Sat Dec 20, 2008 at 05:24:45 AM EST
    evidence for a lot of plant-based (herbal) treatments is that Pharma is only interested in what they can patent, license and profit from.  Pharma is only going to fund research on their products and definitely not on anything that competes with them.

    There has been some research on some herbal treatments.  Is St John's wort effective in treating depression?  Yes - but only for some mild to moderate depression.  That might not sound very encouraging unless you compare the effectiveness of any single anti-depression drug.  There is no miracle one-drug-fits-all anti-depressive.  People often have to try several to find one that is effective for them.  

    Good health care is all about results.  If it doesn't work, don't use it.  Try to treat the cause, not the symptom whenever possible.

    Remember, doctors are not perfect.  My neighbor was smoking and drinking three pots of coffee.  His doctor suggested he quit.  So he did - cold turkey.  A little over a week later, he did a three day inpatient stay while they tried to figure out what was wrong with him.  Well, class.  What do you think happened when someone who was using a lot of stimulants(caffeine & nicotine) stopped using them?  His doctor came in and said "You dope, you should have weaned yourself off slowly.".  Brilliant advice but useless at the time.

    Doctors are useful, but they aren't greatest evah.

    Parent

    Seems Silly To Me (none / 0) (#128)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 20, 2008 at 08:01:06 PM EST
    Why rule out things that can be beneficial.
    Acupuncture I wouldn't use, personally. Nor Chiropractic.

    Acupuncture can be really useful for the body. Good for injuries, allergies, immune system, helps with general ailments.

    Check ups with a western doctor is also a good idea.

    The quality of treatment in most fields of medicine will vary with the talent and knowledge of the practitioner.  

    Parent

    Full-spectrum lights? (none / 0) (#65)
    by oldpro on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 12:16:20 PM EST
    What's the latest research show?  Any effect?

    Bright yellow curtains in the east and south windows works pretty well.  When the light comes through it looks like sunshine!

    SAD is pretty sad, alright...I hear you.  Depression isn't quite the same as whining...I'm letting you off the hook.  For now.

    Parent

    My solution so far...... (5.00 / 1) (#76)
    by vml68 on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 12:49:14 PM EST
    no curtains at all on any window and lots and lots of tropical plants, orchids, cactii. My place looks like a tropical jungle...too much for some people but it suits me just fine.

    Parent
    Spent some time with my plants today (5.00 / 1) (#123)
    by Cream City on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 08:22:12 PM EST
    as it's one of my ways to spend time at sunny windows, too -- and what really works for me is flowers in winter.  I've got two amaryllis going and picked up a gorgeous Christmas cactus . . . because the budget cuts in my state, as I'm a state employee, mean no beach break for us this year.  Or actually, the beach is for my spouse -- I love to get to a climate where as soon as I get out of the airport, I see flowers again for the first time in months.  But I'll make do with my window full of flowers . . . whatever it takes here in my state with the highest SAD rate in the country.

    Parent
    Whatever works! (none / 0) (#82)
    by oldpro on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 01:31:40 PM EST
    Mood-alterating solutions are many and varied...and some of them are even legal!

    The great thing about winter is that we have 3 (THREE!) wonderful seasons to look forward to...spring, summer and fall!

    Hang in there, people.

    Parent

    Found the research by googling (none / 0) (#69)
    by oldpro on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 12:24:03 PM EST
    the lighting research center...

    Parent
    Tell them about the slugs. (none / 0) (#34)
    by ThatOneVoter on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 11:14:35 AM EST
    Since I left seattle 7 years ago, I have seen fewer slugs, total, than I would see on any rainy day in  Seattle, on a small area of ground.

    Parent
    Haven't we had this conversation (none / 0) (#38)
    by oldpro on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 11:19:49 AM EST
    once before?!?

    Yeh...the slugs are gross.  And the natives are restless...

    Parent

    That was you and I... (5.00 / 1) (#43)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 11:29:33 AM EST
    ...who had the discussion of how terrible it is in the PNW.  

    It is pretty funny that Seattle pretty much shuts down at the slightest chance (or the even the mention) of snow.  And those that just up and leave their vehicles on the side of the road.

    Even my family, who all survived many, many harsh Iowa winters, live in fear of the frozen liquid sunshine.

    Parent

    Ahhh yes...now I remember! (5.00 / 1) (#50)
    by oldpro on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 11:41:58 AM EST
    The main reason Seattle shuts down on what the schoolpeople call 'weather days' is that the city is built on hills...lots of them!  Navigating to work and home is something of a nightmare even for transit buses when the roads are icy.  My kid, not a 'weather wimp,' couldn't get from West Seattle to work downtown yesterday...bridge blocked by accidents.  Slippery.

    At least Iowa is flat!

    Parent

    get ready for the winds tomorrow too (none / 0) (#52)
    by addy on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 11:46:36 AM EST
    We're in the east foothills and surrounded by trees. What are the odds we'll be out of power by tomorrow night? Glad I bought spam and peanut butter on my last shopping trip.

    Parent
    Actually... (none / 0) (#58)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 11:53:10 AM EST
    ...Des Moines, having been built at the confluence of two rivers, is quite hilly for the Midwest.  

    Best thing for learning how to drive with a clutch though--and for perfecting those Winter driving skills.  

    First thing I saw in the Times this morning was "If you're thinking about commuting to work today, don't."  Hopefully it doesn't get as bad as it was at Christmas a few years ago.  My nephew has to get to the airport today.  They were at least smart enough to park the car at the top of their hill yesterday.

    Parent

    The slugs are pretty nasty here (none / 0) (#42)
    by addy on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 11:28:20 AM EST
    I just wish I could put them to good use rather than watch them strip my plants of their leaves and stems.
    If they tasted good we'd be in business.

    Parent
    ok ruffian, i officially hate you! (none / 0) (#39)
    by cpinva on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 11:21:59 AM EST
    Sunny and 75 Here in Orlando...lovely day!!

    40's and rainy here in eastern va. typical winter weather for us actually. santa comes by raft.

    there is no such thing as "compromising" with such as warren and his ilk. frankly, why should anyone have to compromise about their civil rights?

    where in the bill of rights does it mention that those rights are subject to the whim of the voters? or the religious nutcases? or anyone else, for that matter?

    so no, i don't care to enter into "discussions" with groups trying to take away my civil rights by legislative fiat. there will be no conversations, period.

    if pres.-elect obama, a former constitutional law instructor, doesn't understand this very, very basic tenet of the constitution, then he should resign right this instant, and turn it over to biden.

    Join the club! (5.00 / 2) (#67)
    by ruffian on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 12:20:09 PM EST
    I don't hold it against you :-)

    I'll be sure to post next July when it is 98 degrees and 98% humidity and I am inhaling bugs and generally hating life.  

    Then you will feel better!!!

    Parent

    LOL... (none / 0) (#73)
    by vml68 on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 12:37:25 PM EST
    The last time I was in Orlando in July it was about 102 degrees and 100% humidity. I was as happy as a clam (not the most appropriate saying, I think clams are cooking at that temperature....:-)) and my friends refused to leave their airconditioned rooms. Party poopers!

    Parent
    You must be (none / 0) (#77)
    by ruffian on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 12:55:41 PM EST
    amphibious or something!  I stay indoors in the summer and have TV marathons! I watched the whole 5 seasons of 'The Wire' this last summer.

    Parent
    Ok, here's a devil's advocate (none / 0) (#41)
    by ThatOneVoter on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 11:25:57 AM EST
    position on choosing Warren. Suppose Obama really is going to support sweeping action on gay rights, including the repeal of DADT, with full  rights for gays in the military. By having Warren speak at the invocation and bless his Presidency, is he co-opting Warren,  to some degree?
    Will it be more effective if Obama can portray himself as having gotten the support of bigots like Warren to act?


    Parent
    Only if Warren actually supports (5.00 / 1) (#54)
    by Fabian on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 11:51:48 AM EST
    those measures.

    It's hard to see how a mega church preacher would benefit by any such initiatives or why he would support them.  The military?  Maybe.  Civil unions aka almost-but-not-quite-marriage?  Not seeing it.

    Parent

    Read in NYTimes today, (5.00 / 1) (#68)
    by KeysDan on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 12:23:54 PM EST
    that the Reverend's Saddleback Church website indicates that gay women and men can attend services but are excluded from church membership (sorry, not up to verifying that myself).  Maybe the great dialog can start with broadening membership, not to the point of making it the Brokeback Church, mind you, but maybe something that just allows an interested, openly gay person to be a part of it all.  Perhaps, some recruitment at the next Log Cabin meeting, for good faith starters.

    Parent
    Here in Surf City USA (none / 0) (#66)
    by nellre on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 12:19:20 PM EST
    Very chilly 46 degrees, clear skies, but too hazy to see the snow on the mountains.

    Obama made a huge mistake picking Rick Warren to lead the invocation.
    The solution is for Obama to announce the elimination of all religious symbols from the inauguration out of respect for our forefathers desire for separation of church and state.

    And if the churchs want to define marriage, fine, let them. Have states issue civil union licenses to all couples.

    Here's a simple way (none / 0) (#84)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 01:39:36 PM EST
    to send good wishes to our overseas armed services personnel: Let's Say Thanks.

    Oh, how I wish I lived in Manhattan, (none / 0) (#106)
    by oculus on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 05:21:38 PM EST
    even though it is sunny and in the 60s here today.

    New subject:  Rick Warren.  I stopped in at the independent book store in "The Village" in La Jolla today.  Just in front of the cash register was Rick Warren's book on the meaning of Christmas.  I asked the bookseller if she had heard any complaints.  She sd. no.  Kind of surprising.

    La Jolla? I lived there through the 80s (none / 0) (#119)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 07:15:00 PM EST
    and early 90s; downtown on Fay Street. My back door opened onto Drury lane and faced the back exit of the Cove theater, just a few doors South of Meanley's hardware.

    Went to grad school at UCSD and ended up teaching there for awhile. I still think of La Jola as the most idyllic place I've ever lived to date. Enjoy!

    Parent

    Make that La Jolla in my last sentence... (none / 0) (#121)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 07:24:41 PM EST
    What's the name of the bookstore you mentioned? I'm wondering if it managed not to change hands. I know a lot of the business owners on Girard Avenue (the main N/S drag right?) owned the property, so they've been able to stay put over the years.

    Parent
    Warwick's, which has stayed (none / 0) (#124)
    by oculus on Sat Dec 20, 2008 at 02:17:29 AM EST
    in the same family and is thriving.  The Cove, on the other hand, is no more.  BoDanica just closed.  Hardware store and Burns' Drugstore are still in business.  

    I wish I did live in La Jolla.  Some say I live in East La Jolla.  I don't say that though.

    Parent

    Thanks for the news... (none / 0) (#126)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Sat Dec 20, 2008 at 10:53:17 AM EST
    that was fun. And, East La Jolla or not, you're a whooole lot closer to La Jolla now than I am. I'd recommend going down to the cove for New Year's Eve fireworks if they're still doing that.

    Parent
    Because this is a legal blog (none / 0) (#120)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 07:18:40 PM EST
    I'm hoping to find some legal representation for a military family that is currently at Ft. Rucker and who inquired of me today whether or not I knew anyone who could give them a hand.  Of course the nature of "dealing" with military issues has caused many of the private attorneys that the family has thusfar contacted to tell them they aren't anywhere near their best bet to give them a hand.  It has to do with a soldier who was diagnosed as bipolar about two months ago and was sent to Ft. Gordon for treatment, but then his military case manager and two sets of command at two different posts became very negligent when he went AWOL with a weapon and they really couldn't be bothered to do ANYTHING much.  They just decided to let him.  The case manager did call the family and told them that they were probably in danger and he was headed their way and they should hide but no law enforcement was notified.....nothing. They couldn't seem to do anything else to help the newly diagnosed bipolar soldier.  He only ended up shooting himself in the head thank God and not his wife and two sons.  Everything that had taken place was also ignored though the wife made numerous calls to both his duty command at Ft Rucker and the command at Ft Gordon, the wife was told to shove off attempting to have her husband's case manager changed since he did survive his self inflicted gunshot wound.  First she was told that nobody could "catch up" with her husband's case expediently and then when she finally filed an I.G. complaint days ago she is now being told that the case manager who can't put in an honest day's work or have much real accountability for the mentally ill people she chose to manage for her paycheck now can't be replaced because of the I.G. investigation the wife started......her punishment for opening her big fat filthy mouth.  If there are any private attorneys out there who have experience and the desire to aid this family I have set up a temp email account at militarytracy@yahoo.com in which to begin forwarding actual referrals to the family sans any cranks that could show up.  The family has been through enough lately.

    Weather (none / 0) (#127)
    by veloer on Sat Dec 20, 2008 at 12:35:34 PM EST
    It is foggy and warm (68) here in North Alabama.

    Friday Morning Open Thread | 129 comments (129 topical)

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