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MN Sen: Coleman's Lead Dwindling, Before The Recount

By Big Tent Democrat, Section Elections 2008
Posted on Fri Nov 07, 2008 at 01:27:36 PM EST
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I can not say I actually understand why, but Norm Coleman's infintesimal lead in the Minnesota Senate race has been dwindling - from nearly 700 votes to 239 votes out of nearly 3 million cast.

No, the recount has not even started. This thing is totally up in the air. I assume Franken is ready to fight to make sure every vote is counted.

By Big Tent Democrat, speaking for me only.

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    MN Sen: Coleman's Lead Dwindling, Before The Recount | 42 comments (42 topical)

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    Oh Happy Day!! (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by hairspray on Fri Nov 07, 2008 at 01:36:10 PM EST
    I wasn't always happy with him on Air America.  He spoke over his guests continually and I found myself driving along listening  and shouting "shut up! I want to hear the guest." However, he is as partisan as they come and we can use that!!!

    No kidding..."Shut up! (none / 0) (#35)
    by oldpro on Fri Nov 07, 2008 at 04:48:34 PM EST
    I want to hear the guest!"

    Reminds me of Charlie Rose, so smug and full of himself...blah, blah, blah.

    I gave up on both of them.

    Parent

    I really enjoyed him on Air America. (none / 0) (#44)
    by sallywally on Fri Nov 07, 2008 at 09:21:20 PM EST
    I think he'd make a great Senator and would be good for all of us.

    I hope he comes out the winner.

    Parent

    Why am I not surprised at this... (5.00 / 3) (#8)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Fri Nov 07, 2008 at 01:59:43 PM EST
    On Election Day, the Minnesota Independent reported that a handful of voters of Somali origin at the Brian Coyle Center in Minneapolis said that "a translator working there was instructing people to vote for Sen. Norm Coleman." This translator, Mahamoud Wardere, was also a staffer to the Coleman campaign, as the senator himself has acknowledged.

    As WCCO-TV reported yesterday, this news raises questions about whether Wardere violated state or federal election laws by instructing Somalis to vote for Coleman.

    http://tinyurl.com/58htgo

    What a (5.00 / 2) (#9)
    by eric on Fri Nov 07, 2008 at 02:01:41 PM EST
    sleazeball.  I hadn't heard about this.

    Parent
    Somehow I am betting (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Nov 07, 2008 at 02:27:08 PM EST
    that does not make onto Powerline.

    Parent
    Well (none / 0) (#29)
    by reslez on Fri Nov 07, 2008 at 04:11:59 PM EST
    The local paper said translators were doing this for both candidates, not just Coleman.

    Parent
    There was a different translator (5.00 / 2) (#32)
    by Steve M on Fri Nov 07, 2008 at 04:23:52 PM EST
    instructing voters to vote for Franken?  Do you have a link for that?

    Parent
    Will Coleman stop the recount if he falls behind? (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by joc on Fri Nov 07, 2008 at 03:22:16 PM EST
    Given the way Al Franken's votes are going up these are words that could come back to haunt him...

    "It's up to him whether such a step is worth the tax dollars it will take to conduct," Coleman said, telling reporters he would "step back" if he were in Franken's position.

    How soon after the count shows Franken is ahead do you think will Coleman "step back?"

    I am told (none / 0) (#1)
    by Steve M on Fri Nov 07, 2008 at 01:30:43 PM EST
    that county clerks have been finding typos and discrepancies between the preliminary count reported on election night and the official count reported afterwards.  I guess it's a little sloppy.

    Which makes a recount (5.00 / 2) (#2)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Nov 07, 2008 at 01:33:39 PM EST
    pretty damned necessary.

    My pint is Coleman's argument on the "
    remote chance" the election could be overturned is pretty ludicrous now.

    Parent

    In a party filled with asses. . . (5.00 / 5) (#7)
    by LarryInNYC on Fri Nov 07, 2008 at 01:51:41 PM EST
    Coleman takes the cake.

    I hope someone has prepared a fake press release on his campaign's stationary for release the instant there's a nominal Franken lead:

    When I led in the vote count last week I called on my opponent to withdraw from the race and save the good people of Minnesota the cost of the procedure.  Now that I find myself behind in the vote count I feel honor bound to do myself what I called on Mr. Franken to do.  I withdraw my name from consideration for this Minnesota Senate Seat.


    Parent
    It always happens (5.00 / 5) (#3)
    by andgarden on Fri Nov 07, 2008 at 01:34:05 PM EST
    But when you're 200,000 votes ahead, who cares?

    One thing's for sure: this won't go down like Florida 2000. The laws and Sec. of State are on our side.

    Parent

    Not on our side ... (5.00 / 4) (#33)
    by Demi Moaned on Fri Nov 07, 2008 at 04:28:12 PM EST
    on the side of a fair count of the votes. That's all we ever wanted in FL/2000, and it's all we want now.

    The fact that Republicans are always willing to use cheating and dishonesty does not equate to a partisan bias in those trying to ensure honesty.

    I know you understand all this, but given the prevalance of false equivalences in the media narrative, we should all be on our guard in these kinds of formulations.

    Parent

    My wife was a vote (none / 0) (#6)
    by eric on Fri Nov 07, 2008 at 01:51:09 PM EST
    "challenger" at the polls for the DFL (she wasn't there to challenge, but rather to counter any republican challenges) and saw some of the pitfalls of the vote counting process.  It is essentially a human error problem.  At one point, when scanning the absentee ballots through the optical scanner, it got jammed.  It turns out it was because someone mailed in a ballot from North Dakota, or something.  Anyway, the machine had to be cleared and the counting proceeded.  But it isn't at all clear they made an accurate count of the ballots before the jam.  At least that was my wife's view.

    Not a huge deal, but if you multiply it by all of the precincts, you can get lots of little errors.

    Parent

    Hmmm (5.00 / 2) (#10)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Fri Nov 07, 2008 at 02:13:47 PM EST
    It turns out it was because someone mailed in a ballot from North Dakota...

    Perhaps someone got mixed up and mailed their Minnesota absentee ballot to No. Dak. and the No. Dak. ballot to Minnesota.  Since there is no check in place to see if you are registered to vote in two states, its is a fairly easy thing to do.

    Parent

    Yep (5.00 / 2) (#18)
    by eric on Fri Nov 07, 2008 at 03:02:31 PM EST
    it's a conspiracy by the Fighting Sioux to undermine our government.

    Parent
    Agree. That would be (none / 0) (#36)
    by oldpro on Fri Nov 07, 2008 at 04:57:42 PM EST
    caught in our state as registrations'signatures are checked against signatures on the ballot envelope.  A friend of mine got caught last cycle signing for and mailing his out-of-town wife's ballot.  Didn't even try to fake her signature...just signed her name in his own handwriting.

    Dumb.  Guilty, guilty, guilty.  Now he's in a diversion program and can't vote for 5 years!  AND is humiliated by all the press coverage in a small town.  Ugly.

    I am convinced, however, that at least one of my part-time resident Republican neighbors votes both here AND in California.  Haven't figured a way to check that out tho.  I know they're registered here...how to find out in California is the problem.  Local auditor is a Republican and wouldn't do it in any case.

    Parent

    I hope the next missing "1" (none / 0) (#5)
    by magster on Fri Nov 07, 2008 at 01:38:34 PM EST
    favoring Franken is in the thousand column instead of the hundred column.

    Clip from Powerline (none / 0) (#12)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Fri Nov 07, 2008 at 02:19:26 PM EST
    Hot off the press, the first apparent evidence of fraud. Last night at around 7:30, a precinct in Mountain Iron, St. Louis County, mysteriously updated its vote total to add 100 new votes--all 100 for Barack Obama and Al Franken.

    Mountain Iron uses optical scanning, so the Coleman campaign asked for a copy of the tape documenting the ballots cast on election night. St. Louis County responded by providing a tape that includes the newly-added 100 votes, and is dated November 2--the Sunday before the election. St. Louis County reportedly denies being able to produce the genuine tape from election night, even though Minnesota law, as I understand it, requires that tape to be signed by the election judges and publicly displayed.


    Emphasis added.

    Every vote should be counted.  Once.

    Heh (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Nov 07, 2008 at 02:24:55 PM EST
    Sounds like you and Powerline are asking for a recount.

    Parent
    No asking required (none / 0) (#21)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Fri Nov 07, 2008 at 03:14:23 PM EST

    If the vote is 1/2% or less difference, the recount is automatic.  

    However, with optical scan machines the 100 vote change seems odd to say the least.  

    Parent

    odd why? (none / 0) (#23)
    by eric on Fri Nov 07, 2008 at 03:16:48 PM EST
    The guy wrote down 24 instead of 124.  It is a pretty easily explained error.

    LINK

    Parent

    Just wait (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by eric on Fri Nov 07, 2008 at 02:59:48 PM EST
    the canoe votes will be here soon, and those will be for Franken.  You sure that you still want one count?

    Parent
    What the heck (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by Steve M on Fri Nov 07, 2008 at 03:02:17 PM EST
    is a canoe vote?

    Parent
    It's an old joke (5.00 / 3) (#20)
    by eric on Fri Nov 07, 2008 at 03:09:33 PM EST
    in Minnesota relating back to the time that some votes took days to be delivered because they were from places only accessible by water.  They had to deliver them by canoe.  The Northwest Angle, for example.

    We had a really close governors race in 1962 in which the "canoe vote" was made famous because it was thought that it might tip the election.  Instead, it was a drawn out recount.

    Since the vote from the northern part of the state is reliably DFL, it is sort of a way us democrats jokingly comfort each other when we are behind... "just wait for the canoe vote".


    Parent

    That's funny (5.00 / 2) (#25)
    by Steve M on Fri Nov 07, 2008 at 03:32:35 PM EST
    as a native Midwesterner, it's my kind of humor for sure.

    Parent
    Was that canoe vote snark (none / 0) (#19)
    by WS on Fri Nov 07, 2008 at 03:09:26 PM EST
    or for real?  

    I want MN to go for Franken.  

    Parent

    In some ways (none / 0) (#22)
    by eric on Fri Nov 07, 2008 at 03:14:39 PM EST
    you could say those last 100 votes are canoe votes.  Heh.

    Actually, folks, it was just a numerical error.

    Parent

    I am drooling at the (none / 0) (#15)
    by mg7505 on Fri Nov 07, 2008 at 02:45:19 PM EST
    prospect of this all being a vast Right-wing conspiracy that committed voter fraud. A fitting end to Coleman's political career.

    Anyone know what kind of ballots (none / 0) (#26)
    by Exeter on Fri Nov 07, 2008 at 03:46:51 PM EST
    Most of Minnesota uses?

    We use (none / 0) (#27)
    by eric on Fri Nov 07, 2008 at 03:50:45 PM EST
    optical scan ballots everywhere.  They are the basic "fill in the oval" type ballots like standardized tests.  We have used them forever and they work really well.  The great thing is that they can easily be recounted by hand.

    Parent
    Here is a link (none / 0) (#28)
    by eric on Fri Nov 07, 2008 at 04:07:44 PM EST
    to a sample of one:  LINK

    Parent
    Also touch screens are available (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by DFLer on Fri Nov 07, 2008 at 05:45:41 PM EST
    and there for use by the blind, hard-of seeing or whoever wants to use them. However, the touch screen machine produces a paper ballot, which is then put in the optical scanner ballot box.

    Before the election judges open the polls, you have to turn on the ballot box, check to see the paper slots are empty, and then review the first printout to check that all the totals are zero, and all the races are listed. Every official present signs on the tape. At the end of the night, when the totals are printed, all sign off again. Any ballot with a write-in vote goes to another compartment to be counted manually for those races. When one puts a ballot in, and you have screwed something up (over-voting for example, and sometimes when the oval is incomplete) the box beeps, a LED read out informs the voter as to the mistake, and the voter is given the opportunity to get that ballot back and try again.

    It's a damn good system.

    The changing totals in the Senate race reflect mainly the differences between the unofficial results toted up by each precinct, and the official tabs reviewed and added up by the County auditor later. My precinct shift was 16 hours, not much of a break. (Some folks work half days) People get tired. I personally registered about 400 voters at the polls that day. My glasses were foggy by 8:00 am!

    Nonetheless, there is a paper ballot to back up EVERY VOTE.

    Parent

    Don't forget (none / 0) (#30)
    by reslez on Fri Nov 07, 2008 at 04:18:24 PM EST
    The Independent candidate won 15% of the vote in this election. Coleman/Franken are tied at 42-42. A lot of voters who didn't back Coleman also couldn't bring themselves to cast a vote for Franken.

    Flip it around (none / 0) (#31)
    by eric on Fri Nov 07, 2008 at 04:23:03 PM EST
    The Independent candidate won 15% of the vote in this election. Coleman/Franken are tied at 42-42. A lot of voters who didn't back Franken also couldn't bring themselves to cast a vote for Coleman.

    Seriously, what kind of logic is that?

    Parent

    Now (none / 0) (#34)
    by WS on Fri Nov 07, 2008 at 04:32:11 PM EST
    at 238.

    Reminds me of the Gregoire (none / 0) (#37)
    by oldpro on Fri Nov 07, 2008 at 05:07:35 PM EST
    vs. Rossi governor's race in '04.

    Rossi was ahead in the first count, less than half of one per cent, engendering an automatic recount.  That put Gregoire ahead as I recall.  A second recount (3rd actual count) can be demanded and paid for...and was.  Democrat Gregoire still won by 129 votes I think!

    Rossi sued...got an Eastern Washington Republican conservative Superior Court judge...not favorable to us.  It was televised - start to finish!  The judge ruled for Gregoire and awarded her 4 more votes!  We won by 133.

    Rematch this year didn't play out that way...she innoculated herself by endorsing Obama instead of Hillary and got the edge...not a huge win but solid.

    Whew.  It was an ugly, ugly contest fueled by the building industry lobbyists dollars and no sense...lie after lie after lie in mega TV ads.

    Oh, wait...senior moment. (none / 0) (#38)
    by oldpro on Fri Nov 07, 2008 at 05:09:08 PM EST
    The first recount also favored Rossi but turned around in the second and final recount for Gregoire.

    Parent
    One reason (none / 0) (#39)
    by lentinel on Fri Nov 07, 2008 at 05:13:33 PM EST
    One reason I read that Franken started to move ahead was that he was awarded 24 votes from one precinct due to a typo.

    He should have gotten 124.

    Seems as if this was not an uncommon occurrence.

    MN race and machine issues (none / 0) (#42)
    by Lora on Fri Nov 07, 2008 at 07:30:12 PM EST
    The optical scanners in use in MN include the ES&S M-100 and the Diebold Accuvote OS, according to the Brad Blog.

    The M-100's had some failures in MI during the pre-election logic & accuracy tests:  The same set of ballots produced different vote totals.

    A Diebold accuvote OS scanner was hacked in Florida during a demonstration -- the famous "Hursti Hack" -- see video clip of the hack from "Hacking Democracy" in the linked post.

    I'm very glad there is to be a hand recount.

    It's down to (none / 0) (#43)
    by eric on Fri Nov 07, 2008 at 08:54:06 PM EST
    221 votes now, and I am still waiting for the canoe vote.

    Seriously, with a recount, this could go either way.

    MN Sen: Coleman's Lead Dwindling, Before The Recount | 42 comments (42 topical)

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