Election Day Afternoon Open Thread

Tonight Jeralyn, TChris and I will be live blogging the election results. I will concentrate on the Congressional races and J will concentrate on the Presidential race.

I got an e-mail from a friend that says about Ohio - "Chaos. Every imaginable problem. I'm a supervisor @ statewide call-in center reviewing all complaints from pollwatchers. Its a war. More later." Anyone in Ohio got anything to add on this?

This is an Open Thread.

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    I haven't slept (5.00 / 4) (#1)
    by CST on Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 02:07:04 PM EST
    I'm hopped up on free Starbucks.  I feel like my stomach is gonna explode any second from nerves.  Every sign points to an Obama win and I am still about to pee my pants in either angst, or too much coffee - I can't tell which at this point.

    Must be election day.

    Glad to break the trend (5.00 / 1) (#2)
    by blogtopus on Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 02:08:11 PM EST
    Can't wait until we elect a non-white male, to break the trend we've had for 230+ years. I am excited, as much as I wanted Hillary to run, I almost feel this would be a closer race if she had been in there. Obama is truly the teflon candidate.

    Can you image if Hillary had the teflon coating Obama did, along with her powerhouse intellect and skill? But the press would not let her have that.

    So here we are, with Obama on the verge of making history, and I am happy for now. Jan 20th, let's see how we can keep his feet to the fire.

    Hopefully Prop 8 will fail. Fingers crossed!

    hear here (5.00 / 0) (#4)
    by coigue on Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 02:11:02 PM EST
    a toast to an Obama Presidency and the failure of props 8 and 4 in CA

    My daughter in Ca has a moderate GOP (5.00 / 4) (#42)
    by hairspray on Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 02:49:26 PM EST
    boyfriend who was going to vote for HRC, but now supports McCain.  He also supports Prop 8. So my clever daughter made a deal with him, "I will vote for McCain if you will vote no on 8." She figured that 8 was more important right now and there is no way McCain will win Ca. If he renegs, she said their relationship is over!!!

    clever girl (5.00 / 2) (#51)
    by txpublicdefender on Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 02:54:07 PM EST
    That's one smart daughter you raised, hairspray!

    She IS clever! (5.00 / 2) (#82)
    by blueaura on Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 03:42:04 PM EST
    Good for her. I couldn't date anyone who would vote Yes on 8. But then, I'm gay, so...

    Kudos to your daughter, (5.00 / 0) (#97)
    by KeysDan on Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 05:04:24 PM EST
    but the boyfriend does not sound so moderate to me, save for an apparent reasonable streak exhibited by his earlier support for Mrs. Clinton.  

    Teflon! (5.00 / 1) (#68)
    by Pepe on Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 03:17:34 PM EST
    What is funny that he would not be called the Teflon candidate if he didn't have so many, er, mishaps and misspeaks, and all the other near mis-ses he has had. The fact that his tonunge is made from Teflon is scary indeed. I'm sure we will be hearing more in the future as he tries to teflon his way out of things.

    As for Clinton, actually this would not even be a contest with her as the candidate. She would have a much greater lead. Why you ask? Because Obama's greatest deficit is experience and Clinton with her command of the issues and solutions to those issues as she displayed during the primary and continues to display (see: HOLC, etc) would have never been questioned as to experience, and there is no way McCain could have used that ploy against her. With Clinton we would already be popping the champagne corks.

    Come 2012 when everyone is biting their nails about Obama's chances of being reelected (after what I predict will be a poor 4 year performance) many will secretly wish it was Clinton being elected today.


    Feet to the fire? (2.00 / 0) (#14)
    by Spamlet on Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 02:27:21 PM EST
    I've actually read his proposals, listened to his statements, and separated all that from the soaring rhetoric that sends white libs to the ground, trembling with the holy spirit. . . . Recall his supposed "surrender" on FISA? That was when his presidency was anything but certain . . . . What do you think he'll "surrender" next, once he's ensconced in the Oval Office? . . . The idea that libs are going to shift from genuflection to lighting fires under Obama's feet is preposterous, but fully in line with the general fantasia.



    Hear! Hear! n/t (none / 0) (#66)
    by dutchfox on Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 03:16:39 PM EST
    Once again, I'll say it (5.00 / 2) (#6)
    by eric on Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 02:16:54 PM EST
    thank gawd we are not being held hostage by Ohio this time around - we can win without it.

    What makes you think (5.00 / 1) (#72)
    by Pepe on Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 03:21:44 PM EST
    it is only Ohio where this type of thing is happening? Just because others are not being reported yet does not mean it isn't happening.

    For months now people have been saying McCain has no ground game. Really? Obama secretly had ACORN and McCain has state GOP run election boards.


    Absolutely. (none / 0) (#38)
    by TheRealFrank on Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 02:48:03 PM EST
    It's sad, but I don't expect either FL or OH to go for Obama, partly because of the voter suppression.

    I'm counting on VA, CO and NV. Only CO will do, and most people there have already voted. It's the safest one.


    If possible (none / 0) (#102)
    by cal1942 on Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 05:37:33 PM EST
    flips from red to blue in the east fail, it will take Colorado's 9 EVs plus ALL of the Gore/Kerry states to reach 273.

    Pleasant surprises for McCain voters (5.00 / 3) (#11)
    by Demi Moaned on Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 02:22:49 PM EST
    Sirota had an item over at the Salon Election Day blogging about Clair McCaskill's appearance on Fox speaking officially for the Obama campaign:

    He will surprise America how quickly he will try to reach out to the millions of people who are voting for John McCain today -- and the milions of people who have questions about his leadership. He'll want to reassure them, and he'll want to find Republicans to work with him in his cabinet.
    He will pleasantly surprise everyone who votes for John McCain today.

    That made my heart sink.

    That does not bother me (5.00 / 0) (#13)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 02:24:14 PM EST
    really. As long as he sticks to the program.

    But that's the question, (5.00 / 2) (#15)
    by Landulph on Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 02:27:46 PM EST
    isn't it, BTD?

    I can tell you where a challenge (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 02:30:02 PM EST
    will come and it will be interesting (and for me, less important) - card check.

    The GOP will demand "bipartisanship" on card check. As will the Media. How will Obama react?

    On fixing the economy Obama will have free hand.


    Card check won't get past the Senate (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by Manuel on Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 02:43:01 PM EST
    The conservative Republicans that remain there will be united and they will be joined by some blue dogs even if the Democrats get 60 votes.  I doubt we'll see this issue taken up early.

    Yes, Obama will have a free hand on the economy.  The interesting thing there will be who he names to his economib team.  Will they be deficit hawks?  Will they advocate for HOLC?  My gut tells me the economic fix will tilt towards aid to states and local government, energy investment, and infrastructure spending.  Necessary but not ground breaking.  Oh and don't look for the tax changes anytime soon.


    No way (5.00 / 1) (#54)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 02:55:15 PM EST
    Impossible to hold a filibuster with just 42.

    How many Democrats (5.00 / 1) (#62)
    by Manuel on Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 03:13:35 PM EST
    do you count in the Senate that support card check?  Politically, I think the Democrats will avoid this as they'll be afraid to get painted by the Republicans as caving in to the Unions.  Congressional Democrats haven't exactly shown the intestinal fortitude to take on issues.  Don't forget the 2010 elections start tomorrow.  And it will be up to Congress, I don't see Obama spending political capital on this issue.  The Obama camp is very aware of the CW (incorrect IMO) that gays in the military was a mistake for Clinton.

    All of them (5.00 / 1) (#64)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 03:14:25 PM EST
    Up and down the line.

    There is not one that will not. Zero.


    Oh I will have to (none / 0) (#78)
    by Pepe on Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 03:34:43 PM EST
    save that post. Zero? Gee I guess the Nelsons et al aren't in the Senate any longer?

    I would not be surprised (5.00 / 3) (#89)
    by Steve M on Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 03:53:24 PM EST
    if this prompted another one of your demented responses to me, but here is a link to the last Senate vote on card check.  Not a single Democratic defection, not one.

    Well of couse that was (none / 0) (#91)
    by Pepe on Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 04:19:38 PM EST
    a cloture vote that was guaranteed to fail before the vote was taken so politically it was easy for any Democrat to vote yes without any consequences at all.

    We'll see if an actual vote on the passage of a bill ever happens and if a filibuster is not guaranteed who mans up and who doesn't.

    Your cloture vote proves nothing really for obvious reasons. Well obvious to most everyone. :)


    Card check (5.00 / 1) (#34)
    by Steve M on Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 02:45:01 PM EST
    will be a party-line filibuster, no doubt about it.  The only plausible scenario is 59 Democrats plus Arlen Specter.

    There is no way to keep it from coming up for a vote, and no way Obama could possibly veto if it passed, so the number of potential storylines is very small.


    Murkowski and Specter (5.00 / 0) (#36)
    by andgarden on Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 02:46:43 PM EST
    (Remember how unionized Alaska is).

    Heh (none / 0) (#46)
    by Steve M on Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 02:51:09 PM EST
    Here's the last vote on card check.  Murkowski was not on the side of the angels.

    I think she'll cave (none / 0) (#49)
    by andgarden on Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 02:53:52 PM EST
    She's up for reelection next cycle, and she's very likely to be the one vote in the way.

    I disagree with both of you (none / 0) (#52)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 02:54:49 PM EST
    Assuming there are 42 Republicans, the chances of holding a filibuster will be slim and none.

    Oh sure (5.00 / 1) (#56)
    by andgarden on Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 02:58:11 PM EST
    The Republicans are guaranteed to be in a worse position than Democrats have ever been in in the Senate. If I were Mitch McConnell, I'd almost rather lose than have to deal with the certain situation I'd face on returning to Washington.

    Hm (none / 0) (#60)
    by Steve M on Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 03:04:50 PM EST
    If we were talking about an issue like health care, I could see it.  But unions?  I don't think we have the high ground in the court of public opinion on this one.

    Gawd, I can't wait for the incessant cries of "even George McGovern thinks card check is un-American" when this issue finally comes up.  What a joy.


    Really, you think people don't like unions? (5.00 / 1) (#105)
    by bigtimepatriot on Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 05:50:04 PM EST
    You remember unions, the people who brought you the 40 hour work week? And weekends for that matter.

    There was only one group of people that made a personal sacrifice over the last several months to stop American jobs from being outsourced, it wasn't CEO's, it wasn't politicians on the right or the left, it was Boeing workers going out on strike.

    In real life (not in pundit land or even in the political landscape, but in day to day life) I think unions are a lot more popular than, for example, those in favor of cutting capital gains taxes.


    If unions can target (none / 0) (#63)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 03:13:55 PM EST
    just 1 or 2 Senators? Sorry, they are cowards and will vote against filibuster and then against the bill top avoid being targetted.

    And that (none / 0) (#104)
    by cal1942 on Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 05:46:50 PM EST
    is exactly the way it's done.  We've seen it many times on our side.

    If Obama wins a solid victory a lot of stuff will roll through like this.


    Snowe, Collins, Specter (none / 0) (#69)
    by MKS on Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 03:17:56 PM EST
    could be peeled off....And there may be another Republican Senator who could vote with the Dems:  John McCain.  Wouldn't that be a kick...

    Obama is corportate owned (5.00 / 1) (#83)
    by Pepe on Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 03:42:58 PM EST
    Of course he would veto it. He will say it is damaging to the economy and then come up with another 10 year play to educate and fill jobs that have not yet been invented so those X-union people can have a decent way of life.

    Of course he will teflon his way out of it by saying it is hard for him to do but he must look out for the overall economy which is going to provide those good paying non-existent jobs in 10 years.

    This guy is going to make Bill's NAFTA look pale in comparison.

    I can hear Ross Perot now as Obama is elected tonight: "Hear that giant sucking sound?"

    Note: I'm sure he will offer out some favors to the Senators who keep this from passing in the Senate so he can keep from having to veto it. That is his history. He's a Pol after all.


    A party line filibuster? (none / 0) (#50)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 02:54:04 PM EST
    If the unions can't pick off 3 Republicans to break that filibuster then there is no point.

    Specter, Collins, et al?

    No, it is on Obama really.


    But what about Democrats (none / 0) (#73)
    by Manuel on Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 03:23:22 PM EST
    What about the Democrats in "right to work" states.  It was easy for them to support card check when they knew it wasn't going anywhere (ceratin Bush veto).  Now that it could actually pass, they'll have to watch their backs.  I guess they can allow a vote and then vote NO.  

    OK, I'll ask (none / 0) (#35)
    by ruffian on Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 02:46:35 PM EST
    What is 'card check'?  Universal ID cards?

    If so, I'm with you.  I don't have a problem with a fairly administered, free to all, universal ID program.  


    The Employee Free Choice Act (none / 0) (#44)
    by liminal on Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 02:50:41 PM EST
    Is the card check bill.  

    Oh. Well, that's entirely different. (none / 0) (#48)
    by ruffian on Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 02:53:16 PM EST
    Never Mind.

    Card Check? (none / 0) (#76)
    by Pepe on Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 03:30:46 PM EST
    But Free Trade is the exact opposite of what card check stands for. Free Trade is the biggest union buster of all time.

    With Free Trade the thought process is we can't have unions and compete with global wages. And that thought process is correct. So it is one or the other, Free Trade or Unions, but not both. There is a choice for people to make, one or the other.

    Obama will not support card check exactly because he is a Free Trader and too much money came to him via the Union Busting Free Trade Corporations. Forget card check as far as he goes.


    Yeah we also (5.00 / 4) (#81)
    by jondee on Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 03:40:58 PM EST
    "cant compete" without outsourcing, without blocking unionization in other nations, without undermining worker protections and environmental regulations, without looking the other way on child labor and sweat shops etc etc

    I'll start believeing that "we cant compete" horsesh*t when these upper level executives stop retiring with platinum paracutes after running companies into the ground.


    Free Trade (5.00 / 1) (#84)
    by jondee on Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 03:44:20 PM EST
    is the same people-philosophy that gave us trickle down gone international.

    That summed it up pretty well (none / 0) (#86)
    by Pepe on Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 03:46:50 PM EST
    I'm anti-free trade as it is defined today. Some here on this blog are not.

    Anyone who buys food (none / 0) (#87)
    by nycstray on Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 03:51:59 PM EST
    (or any other product!) should really be against the way it's set up now. Global supply is officially contaminated.

    I'll believe it... (none / 0) (#106)
    by bigtimepatriot on Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 05:53:22 PM EST
    When companies hire CEO's from overseas, I think GM and Ford could have hired someone from India for a fraction of the price that would have been able to see ahead that, hey, gas prices might change in the future, and hey, the change might be up, and hey, betting it all on SUV's and pickups might destroy our companies.

    When top management is outsourced, then I will believe it's necessary.


    Will he get the program if he gets a (none / 0) (#53)
    by hairspray on Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 02:54:51 PM EST
    lot of GOP?  Of course he always said he would so now we will see how that works out.

    ya (none / 0) (#88)
    by connecticut yankee on Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 03:52:27 PM EST
    Well, they think he's a terrorist, marxist, socialist communist so.... He really can't help but improve his image with them.

    You don't know these people ... (none / 0) (#90)
    by Robot Porter on Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 03:56:06 PM EST
    he could govern to the right of Reagan and they'd still think these things.

    Odd, I have no angst at all this election. (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 02:29:58 PM EST
    '00 and especially '04 (as I remember) were nail-biters from the git-go but I think today's is a rout, a mere formality.

    I voted next to a neighbor today and she told me, as she marked her ballot, that she was shaking with excitement. Me, not so much.

    Whoever wins has got some heavy lifting to do, and that effort needs to be sustainable - unlike the emotions of this one day.

    Here's a toast to America, may we make the right choice.

    Worried (5.00 / 3) (#20)
    by Manuel on Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 02:33:05 PM EST
    Not about the election, that's a done deal.  I am worried about how the Democrats will approach governance after a long time in the wilderness.  We are about to see a feeding frenzy as various groups and individuals jockey for influence in the new administration.  The hard part is about to begin and given thr problems confronting the country, it will only get harder.

    Me too. (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by liminal on Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 02:44:33 PM EST
    The Republicans have left us a big stinking, horrible mess, to boot.  Here's hoping we do right.

    Hopefully... (none / 0) (#79)
    by kdog on Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 03:35:49 PM EST
    the new leadership puts the country before their cronies and their demands for spoils...unlike the Republicans.

    But I ain't holding my breath...


    My son voted for McCain! (5.00 / 4) (#23)
    by Fabian on Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 02:34:38 PM EST
    They did a vote in first grade.  The only information given on the candidates was some biographical data - how old they were, where they lived and family information.  My son voted for McCain because he had seven children to Obama's two and "Having kids helps you to be a good president.".  As my husband said - he made a logical decision based on the information he was given.  I suppose he could have picked one based on which of their home states he liked better!

    I took the boys to go vote.  I deliberately picked after lunch for smallest "crowds".  There were no crowds, just herded everyone in, signed in, walked to the booth, put the button-pushing fiend on my shoulders, declined the first grader's offers to help me vote, used one hand to push buttons because the other was keeping the button-pushing fiend from pushing buttons.  After about five minutes and a few piercing shrieks of rage from the frustrated button-pushing fiend, we were done.  Everyone got a "I Voted!" sticker.

    Man! (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by liminal on Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 02:42:42 PM EST
    I did not get an I Voted! sticker.  They didn't have any.  I even asked.  No free donut for me.  Of course, I'm fifty miles away from the closest Krispy Kreme, but still.

    Great story (5.00 / 3) (#55)
    by gyrfalcon on Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 02:55:16 PM EST
    Poor fiend!

    I actually think it's kind of a shame that early voting is getting so popular.  There's something irreplacealbe for me about going to my local polling place and knowing that ordinary people all over the country are doing the same.  Voting early or by mail seems to me to take something away from that.

    Voting in Vermont is from 10 to 7 (plenty of time for folks with desk jobs to get to the polls after work since we basically don't do long commutes here, and Lord knows, there's never a problem finding a parking space), and when I got to my town's only poll (in the volunteer firehouse) around 10:30 this AM, the joint was jumping.

    Vermont is expected to go for Obama by a whopping 68 percent from the one poll I saw, and some of the farmers I've chatted with in my community are positively starry-eyed about electing an African-American president, and would be even if they didn't hate George Bush and everybody who's ever had anything to do with him with a real passion.

    This used to be a solidly Republican state back when there were reasonable Republicans, but everything has shifted so far to the right that the Dems. are closer to the old Republicans and the national GOP now is considered flat-out insane.

    Quite a day.  You can almost feel the ripple in The Force. :-)


    I voted! (5.00 / 2) (#27)
    by liminal on Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 02:41:03 PM EST
    This morning.  It's such a pretty day here, in the mid-70s, bright sun, lovely.  The leaves are in full fall color, too - maybe a bit overdone - but it has been so dry here that they are extra brown and kinda crispy, so the fall display isn't as lovely as it should be.  

    The voting machine did not change my Obama vote to a McCain vote, and the poll workers had pretty clearly been briefed on the problems with machine calibration during early voting here in WV, as they informed me that I was "required by law" to review every vote I cast to ensure that it was accurate.  The Republican candidates were listed at the top of the ballot.  I only noticed that on some of the races with bigger fields.  For state House of Delegates, for example, we have six people running for three slots, and for magistrate, we have 10 people running for seven slots.  In those big fields, ballot position could well make a difference.

    I voted for one Mountain Party candidate, and two Republicans, one for park board, and one for city council.  I think there were four open seats on the park board and two people running. Oh, and if you want to be a soil conservation district officer.... well, I'm sorry I missed that candidate debate between no one and no one.

    And in case it's not clear from my post - (none / 0) (#39)
    by liminal on Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 02:48:19 PM EST
    - all my other votes were for Democrats.  Aside from the city council vote, I voted for the Democrat in every competitive race.  I figured Jay "FISA" Rockefeller was safe enough without my vote, though.

    I hope Jeralyn see this.... (5.00 / 6) (#40)
    by ChiTownDenny on Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 02:48:32 PM EST
    I'm a former Hillary supporter.  IMO, there was no rhyme or reason why Hillary shouldn't have been the Dem nominee and eventual POTUS, except for the "input" of the MSM, the Dem party apparatus, and  MoveOn and Kossack (as well as other) demographics.
    I was happy  with myself that I came to a position that I  would not vote for the Repub candidate.  I just couldn't see a reason for voting for the Dem candidate, especially since I could protest with my vote, yet be assured Obama would win my state (IL).  
    Jeralyn's YouTube posting yesterday, Billy Joel's "We Didn't Start the Fire" was the catalyst for me to vote today for Obama.  My protest against the Dem primaries wasn't as significant as my protest against the Repub party's leadership, which I never supported, and now, I have it documented.
    Thank you, Jeralyn.  It has been a trying time for me as a Dem, especially considering the trying times we've experienced the past eight years.

    Yep. Just as Donna Brazille (5.00 / 4) (#95)
    by rennies on Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 04:54:26 PM EST
    predicted, I finally punched the Obama slot on the ballot. I had planned to vote for Cynthia Mckinney, so much do I dislike and mistrust Obama. But when I stood in the booth that old yellowdog DNA just kicked in. I did feel deep sorrow that I wasn't punching a slot for Hillary Clinton. I don't think I will every trust the Democratic party again after this campaign. And I certainly will never contribute to  or work for the party again, unless it's for Hillary.

    For a brief second, (5.00 / 2) (#98)
    by ChiTownDenny on Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 05:15:50 PM EST
    I considered writing in Hillary's name.

    I considered it. (5.00 / 1) (#99)
    by Fabian on Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 05:23:38 PM EST
    Woulda had to use "Al Gore" instead, so as not to give Hillary bashers any excuses.  However I did not "come home" instead opting to vote for another "historic ticket".  It's painful to see black guy/white guy and white guy/white woman get so much attention, when two women of color are on the same ticket and that ticket gets not a blink.  OTOH, I think people who vote for them aren't voting based on identity politics.

    I wish they would have gotten more attention (5.00 / 1) (#101)
    by nycstray on Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 05:33:52 PM EST
    and I wish they would have gotten enough to grow the party more. But on the other hand, if they got too much attention, it might have been ugly. After all, they are women.

    Oh, yeah. (none / 0) (#103)
    by Fabian on Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 05:39:40 PM EST
    If an old white guy like Nader can still draw fire, two women of color....ohhhhhhh that could be very, very ugly.  Good thing <groan> Palin proved such a potent distraction.

    I would gladly vote Green in a state race if I could, but my district is distinctly red and unlikely to attract a Green candidate.


    They changed a couple of things in their (5.00 / 1) (#107)
    by nycstray on Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 06:31:48 PM EST
    platform which I wasn't as happy with, but there's enough counter-balance out there, that it prob wouldn't be an issue. The realization that I'm living a green and pretty sustainable lifestyle makes it kinda funny I always considered myself a Dem. Not anymore, lol!~

    I have to wonder what "post-partisan" is going to look like and if it will make the 2 major parties stronger along with a third party (not the Unity crew!). You can only blur the lines so much before you rock the boat, imo. Obama has already shown how he can p!ss off Dems on issues . . . .


    Ha! (none / 0) (#108)
    by Fabian on Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 06:52:57 PM EST
    You know how religious outreach seems to only be directed towards Christian churches?  Well, that's what I expect post-partisanship to be like.  Dems schmoozing with Republicans, other political affiliations left out in the cold.  (Lest they be tagged as pandering to radicals or special interest groups!)

    Hilarious interview (5.00 / 0) (#41)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 02:48:54 PM EST
    of Joe the Plumber by Rick Sanchez.

    Hilarious? (none / 0) (#45)
    by andgarden on Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 02:50:56 PM EST
    I think interviews like that--heck, most of what's been on CNN this morning--are what God invented the mute button for.

    I laughed my a** off (5.00 / 0) (#47)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 02:51:59 PM EST
    with that one.

    God invented the mute button!?! (5.00 / 1) (#70)
    by Robot Porter on Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 03:18:58 PM EST

    Report from Atlanta (5.00 / 1) (#57)
    by atlmom on Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 02:59:08 PM EST
    All smiles in my Dekalb County precinct today.  My 7 year old helped me press the "Cast Ballot" button.  In her words, "We need change. We've had enough old white men for President".  I teared up.

    The resident right-wingers.... (5.00 / 1) (#77)
    by kdog on Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 03:33:33 PM EST
    in the office are practically zombies today...I almost felt bad for them....until I got a bunch of "Obama is the Devil!" emails full of lies and innuendo forwarded to me.  It's almost enough to make me wanna vote for Obama...almost:)

    I remember the "office" after (none / 0) (#85)
    by nycstray on Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 03:45:05 PM EST
    the last presidential election. That was the most depressing art studio I think I ever walked into. And I was right there with them  :( I didn't go up to the "business" floors!

    Tom Davis (5.00 / 0) (#92)
    by andgarden on Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 04:21:03 PM EST
    Concern trolling the Republican party:

    "We've become a regional party, basically become a white, rural, regional party, and not a national party. And we're going to have to retool ourselves," he added.

    Yikes (none / 0) (#3)
    by andgarden on Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 02:10:20 PM EST
    I'm hoping for what I always hope for: that the margin of victory is such that none of the shenanigans could conceivably have changed the outcome.

    My people tell me smooth sailing in Philly.

    Your sources must be Black Panthers then! (none / 0) (#5)
    by dws3665 on Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 02:16:13 PM EST
    Faux News has had several reports of "Black Panthers" engaging in voter intimidation.

    You can't make this crap up. William K. Wolfrum is liveblogging Fox today - pray for his sanity.


    heh (none / 0) (#7)
    by andgarden on Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 02:17:55 PM EST
    Did you know that the Black Panther Party used to have a ballot position in PA?

    I did not (none / 0) (#18)
    by dws3665 on Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 02:31:39 PM EST
    I heard this "news" story while standing in line with another (surprise!) white male Obama supporter here in Charleston, SC. Having lived in exurban Philly, I assured him that, last I heard, you couldn't swing a cat in Philly w/o hitting a Black Panther. /s

    well, this was the 70s, so. . . (none / 0) (#22)
    by andgarden on Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 02:33:27 PM EST
    A video is up on youtube (none / 0) (#93)
    by Cream City on Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 04:28:43 PM EST
    by a local campus reporter, interviewing the guys with berets and nightsticks standing outside a polling place -- and it really does not make Philly, or America, look good.  Jeesh.

    Found this: Craigs list (none / 0) (#8)
    by eric on Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 02:19:37 PM EST
    for posterity (5.00 / 1) (#19)
    by eric on Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 02:32:08 PM EST
    I am going to copy the contents of the Craigslist posting here:

    POLICE at Polls on Voting Day with warrants for Bad Check, Child Support, and probation violators! Watch out or you may get picked up and jailed.

        * Location: Cleveland, OH
        * it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests

    PostingID: 90196928

    I am flagging it as prohibited.  I would encourage others to flag it, as well.


    That reminds me (none / 0) (#26)
    by blogtopus on Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 02:40:44 PM EST
    of the idea to start rumor that ERs are deliberately killing people to harvest their organs, to dissuade illegal aliens from using them.

    I'm still a fan of Larry Niven's early work, and I realize the guy is paid to come up with really outlandish ideas based on current trends, but that's an idea so simple and scary that it is probably being used by DHS now.


    Is this legal? (none / 0) (#10)
    by obiden08 on Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 02:22:04 PM EST
    Talk about voter suppression!

    well (5.00 / 0) (#21)
    by connecticut yankee on Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 02:33:07 PM EST
    legal? They are republicans, that's the last concern they might have.

    Nice! (none / 0) (#28)
    by easilydistracted on Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 02:41:44 PM EST
    Street Money for Philly (none / 0) (#9)
    by obiden08 on Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 02:21:22 PM EST
    The Obama campaign didn't pay it, or didn't pay much. I don't get it. They're flush with cash.  Why not pay it?  I think they would have done better there in the primay had they paid the money.

    If we lose PA due to low turnout in Philly, I'll know why.

    Philly Street Money

    Yup, that's what I hear too (none / 0) (#12)
    by andgarden on Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 02:23:10 PM EST
    It seems like a bad idea to me too, but I've gotten comfortable with the idea that I'm not running their ship.

    They can win or lose on their own.


    Well (5.00 / 4) (#37)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 02:47:28 PM EST
    He could have picked Hillary as his VP and we would not be sweating Florida, Ohio or Pennsylvania.

    Let me just say this (5.00 / 3) (#43)
    by andgarden on Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 02:50:05 PM EST
    When John McCain thinks he can win Pennsylvania by cutting Obama's margins in the white Philly precincts, Obama is playing with fire by being the first Democratic nominee in living memory to stiff the city party.

    your link (none / 0) (#25)
    by txpublicdefender on Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 02:39:21 PM EST
    The link you provide says the following:

    Obama can't say he's hurting as a result. His team has its own unpaid squad, and they're out in far greater numbers than the paid guys usually are. It's hard to find a block without a pair of bouncy volunteers proferring light-blue paperwork. Schmanek says the street money in such a case would mainly go for state legislative candidates, anyway.

    Do you have reason to believe otherwise.


    Do you think his volunteers know (5.00 / 2) (#30)
    by andgarden on Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 02:42:50 PM EST
    the neighborhood as well as the committee people who have been squeezing out every last vote since time began?

    Millions of bucks for TV ads, but he's not doing everything he can to maximize his vote in Philly.


    Lots of bucks for a plane with a banner (5.00 / 1) (#94)
    by Cream City on Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 04:32:55 PM EST
    from the Obama campaign, buzzing my campus for hours yesterday.  In a state that is a lock for Obama.

    I couldn't help but wonder how many foreclosed homes could be seen from that silly plane -- and much what it cost might have helped homeless.  I know, I know, the campaign funds can't be spent that way . . . exactly.

    But I was thinking that the candidates could have taken a tip from Al Capone in the Depression.  He set up a soup kitchen in Chicago.  He had the people with him ever afterward, no matter what.


    Do you think (none / 0) (#58)
    by lilburro on Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 02:59:41 PM EST
    street money is important for turnout alone?  Or do you think it could've have an effect as well on some white majority wards that are leaning McCain now.  I imagine you saw this article over the weekend.

    I don't know much about Philly politics at this level.


    A few points (5.00 / 1) (#59)
    by andgarden on Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 03:01:27 PM EST
    1. Yes, I believe that street money is impotant. I've seen it in action.

    2. I did read that article, but I didn't have to to know what McCain's plan was. I just had to look at this map (PDF).

    Is this a case (5.00 / 0) (#61)
    by lilburro on Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 03:12:57 PM EST
    where Obama should be up 15 points, and is only up 9?  He seems pretty set to win the state, presumably based on other strength.  Although I agree, if I were Obama I would have invested in the street money.  With only one day of voting it's good to have your ducks in a row.  A happy Rendell being one of those ducks...

    Do you think Rendell is right in thinking Obama should've done more in PA?  Or do you think he's just being dramatic...and is secretly happy?


    I think Obama will win PA (none / 0) (#65)
    by andgarden on Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 03:14:41 PM EST
    and that it will be a fairly comfortable victory. However, I take nothing for granted, and in a state that's been so close in the past, neither should have Obama.

    During the primary. .. (5.00 / 2) (#32)
    by obiden08 on Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 02:43:39 PM EST
    one of the comments made after he lost was that his out-of-state volunteers didn't do as well as "home folks" (my phrasing) would have done in getting out the vote.

    I just don't see why he'd repeat past mistakes. Why risk it?


    Also, will out of town volunteers (5.00 / 1) (#67)
    by nycstray on Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 03:17:23 PM EST
    help with down ticket?

    I can tell you who to vote for in my district and why, but not about Philly . . . .


    Yup, that's a problem too (5.00 / 2) (#71)
    by andgarden on Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 03:19:47 PM EST
    The PA House is VERY competitive this year, and Obama could be single-handedly letting it go. A few of the hotly contested seats are in white Northeast Philly.

    Lets hope that doesn't happen (5.00 / 2) (#74)
    by nycstray on Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 03:23:51 PM EST
    Problems in Florida (none / 0) (#24)
    by befuddledvoter on Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 02:34:55 PM EST
    Not sure how widespread, but seems many ballots will have to counted after 7.


    Deep breaths. . . (none / 0) (#75)
    by andgarden on Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 03:24:30 PM EST

    John Wayne McCain vs (none / 0) (#80)
    by Jlvngstn on Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 03:36:38 PM EST
    Barack "The Hope" Obama.  

    Let's see which campaign had the better narrative.  tonight.

    I hear it's (none / 0) (#96)
    by mg7505 on Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 05:01:16 PM EST
    chaos in Minnesota too, from family in the state. Luckily everyone is Minnesota Nice about it.

    Also from family's anecdotal observations: the polls may have understated Obama's lead in MN.

    If that's true, (5.00 / 0) (#100)
    by WS on Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 05:24:53 PM EST
    I hope O's coattails will bring Franken along with him.