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"Progressivism" In The 90s And Today

It is a bit of an obsession for me, but the mischaracterization of Bill Clinton's Presidency and the views of Senator Hillary Clinton still bothers me a great deal. Here is Poblano:

Likewise, as David Sirota notes, one can co-opt leftist rhetoric, enthusiasm and mindshare and implement a centrist agenda, as Bill Clinton arguably did.

Well make the argument then, as opposed to just spouting the line. Consider how Poblano defines Obama as a progressive:

1. Reverse Bush tax cuts for the wealthy. (You mean like Bill Clinton did?)

2. Close corporate tax loopholes. (Like Bill Clinton did?)

3. Mandate health insurance for kids (Like Bill Clinton did?)

4. $1B in anti-poverty job program (Ever heard of the EITC?)

5. Expand AmeriCorps (created by Bill Clinton) and PeaceCorps. (Like Bill Clinton did?)

Here's my question, when will SOME Democrats learn to appreciate the achievements of Bill Clinton? When will they learn that denigrating the last previous Democratic President is counterproductive? When will they learn that President-Elect Obama is ideologically in tune with both President Clinton and Senator Hillary Clinton?

Of course, unlike President Clinton, President-Elect Obama has the opportunity (indeed the necessity) to enact much bolder policies. But if and when he does, you'll probably find that a lot of his ideas are not new - they may have been first proposed by yep, President Bill Clinton.

Speaking for me only

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    Absolutely! (5.00 / 6) (#1)
    by lepidus on Wed Nov 26, 2008 at 12:25:50 PM EST
    I'm so glad to see that I'm not the only one thinking this.

    The response I typically get is that no one who is progressive would have been involved with the DLC.

    Of course, Obama was also involved with the DLC, but cut it off because by the time he'd arrived on the scene they were much more of a political liability.

    Chris Bowers writes (5.00 / 9) (#2)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Nov 26, 2008 at 12:28:04 PM EST
    "Can't stop pushing from the left: I recently heard an interesting anecdote about the 1993 budget fight. While it is probably the most progressive piece of sizable legislation to pass into law in two decades, it was a grueling fight--passing both branches of Congress by a single vote--and it still could have been better. At the signing ceremony, President Clinton found then Representative Bernie Sanders, and told Sanders that he, Sanders, should have made a much bigger public display of how he, Clinton, wasn't giving enough to liberals in the new budget. Such a public display would have provided Clinton more room to maneuver on the left.

    The moral of the story is that if no one is criticizing a Democratic administration from the left, then there is no rationale or political space for that Democratic administration to operate on the left. Such criticism is thus even useful to, and desired by, a Democratic administration. If the left stays quiet, it will not be relevant."

    Link.

    That's a great story (5.00 / 3) (#5)
    by andgarden on Wed Nov 26, 2008 at 12:29:46 PM EST
    and I believe it. Bill Clinton is a really good politician.

    Parent
    And , like Obama, (5.00 / 4) (#12)
    by ruffian on Wed Nov 26, 2008 at 12:36:44 PM EST
    he had to work with the Congressional Dems he had, and not the ones he wishes he had.

    Parent
    That's of a piece (5.00 / 2) (#52)
    by sj on Wed Nov 26, 2008 at 02:59:28 PM EST
    with FDR's statement(s):

    "...make me do it."  

    It's why you can't stop asking for what you want -- whether it's for Christmas or for society.  If no one knows you want it, you aren't going to get it.

    Parent

    Counterproductive is key (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by ruffian on Wed Nov 26, 2008 at 12:29:35 PM EST
    I don't understand what they think there is to gain by not wanting to show progressive policies as a progression from Clinton (and before) through Obama and on to the next leader.

    I know they don't like the term CDS, but when they don't act rationally it is the only conclusion I can draw.

    I do my best to not worship Bill Clinton (5.00 / 2) (#6)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Nov 26, 2008 at 12:30:35 PM EST
    It gets hard sometimes though because he is a wealth of implemetable fabulous win/win solutions.  I could just appreciate his intellect but I got that with Carter too and not many implementable solutions. Obama steps up to the plate with as you say

    unlike President Clinton, President-Elect Obama has the opportunity (indeed the necessity) to enact much bolder policies.

    He's starting off in a completely different place in the game of progressive politics.  How will he compare at the end of his day in what he was actually able to achieve from the start he is being given?  He could start by ditching that war winger Gates, but nah......he's not going to be that progressive today!

    Bill would've kept Gates, too (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by oldpro on Wed Nov 26, 2008 at 12:38:26 PM EST
    I do believe, as would I.

    It will make for a much smoother transition and fulfills Obama's 'promise' to have a bi-partisan cabinet/administration.  He needs at least ONE R in the mix...Gates is a no-brainer in my book.

    Parent

    I simply cannot believe such nonsense :) (5.00 / 2) (#18)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Nov 26, 2008 at 12:42:21 PM EST
    Bill would not have kept the Sec of Defense of the Torture Administration!

    Parent
    I'm with you. U.S. is (5.00 / 2) (#24)
    by oculus on Wed Nov 26, 2008 at 12:50:30 PM EST
    engaged in two wars so let's just leave Gates in place for a smooth transition so we can keep on keeping on. How about we put that Republican in some cabinet position that is not on the front burner each and every day?  Also, I am now on disc 10 of 36 of Team of Rivals.  So far the rivals have all been the same party as Lincoln.  Or did I miss his appointing Douglas as Secretary of War?  Or Secretary of Emancipation.  Ridiculous.

    Parent
    He would not have kept Gates because.... (5.00 / 2) (#45)
    by Maria Garcia on Wed Nov 26, 2008 at 01:42:05 PM EST
    ..it was unthinkable at the time and he would have gotten hell for it from all sides, unlike Obama who is praised for it. But he did have a Republican sec of defense later in his administration.

    Parent
    I'll bite (none / 0) (#54)
    by Salo on Wed Nov 26, 2008 at 03:27:40 PM EST
    churchills war cabinet had two socialists and two torys. That's how bush should have rolled in the first place after 9/11

    Parent
    Two Torys and two Socialists can (none / 0) (#62)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Nov 26, 2008 at 05:41:25 PM EST
    agree to fight a real threat.  Sweet Jesus, the whole world was going to Afghanistan with us.....even those wussies the French. Bush couldn't have sold the ACTUAL Iraq invasion to that sort of cabinet.  And don't spout that voting for the AUMF was voting for the war or I will link to the speech Hillary made the day of that vote.  BTD is wrong :)

    Parent
    It seems to me (5.00 / 5) (#7)
    by Steve M on Wed Nov 26, 2008 at 12:30:46 PM EST
    that Bill Clinton was just about as liberal as the times allowed.  Liberals who have a problem with what he accomplished really have a problem with the electorate as it then existed.

    And not just the electorate (5.00 / 4) (#26)
    by oldpro on Wed Nov 26, 2008 at 12:55:28 PM EST
    but the Congress they elected and turned loose on Clinton and the country with Gingrich and the Contract on America...

    Clinton and his veto pen were all that stood between what we had then and what we have now.  He poured more red ink over Republican budgets and legislation than all previous presidents put together.

    Parent

    I agree Clinton (5.00 / 1) (#53)
    by Lolis on Wed Nov 26, 2008 at 03:01:26 PM EST
    had a difficult Congress, but he should have vetoed the Defense of Marriage Act. He even bragged about signing it in my conservative community.

    Time will tell if Obama will be a better president. It'll help if he doesn't have a sexual relationship with his WH intern and face impeachment hearings.

    Parent

    I would also prefer (none / 0) (#64)
    by oldpro on Wed Nov 26, 2008 at 06:08:08 PM EST
    that Clinton veto DOMA but the veto would have been easily overriden, as you no doubt know.

    Timing.  That argument is STILL going on in this country, in ballot initiatives, in legislatures and in Congress.  I don't expect it to be rescinded any time soon, do you?  Obama is not going to do it.  Period.

    BTW...if the Rs want to attack Obama, they won't need an intern to do it...they'll just make it up, like Whitewater, etc. etc.  But yes, It'll help if he avoids dumb mistakes...and keeps the press in his pocket.

    Parent

    Some people's memories are different (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by joel dan walls on Wed Nov 26, 2008 at 12:32:05 PM EST
    ...and include things like welfare deform, "the era of big government is over", Dick Morris and David Gergen, bombing pharmaceutical factories in East Africa....

    I hope Obama learns from Bill Clinton where it's appropriate to do so, and shuns other lessons that are best shunned.

    Clinton and Obama: politicians, not saints.

    some of that is tactics (5.00 / 3) (#9)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Nov 26, 2008 at 12:34:15 PM EST
    Not policy.

    Indeed, that is why the Sirota quote is so off base.

    clinton did the REVERSE of what Sirota says he did.

    Parent

    I would argue that welfare (5.00 / 4) (#21)
    by oldpro on Wed Nov 26, 2008 at 12:48:35 PM EST
    reform, though not perfect, was more successful than not...both economically and politically.  In fact, I would go so far as to say that Obama could not have been elected without it.  When was the last time you heard the Rs toss the phrase "welfare queen" at a Democratic candidate?  Right.  20 nyears ago.

    As for "the era of big government is over," it was...temporarily.  Peace and prosperity and the no-war dividend allowed growth across all economic fronts while CUTTING the military and spending growth.  It WAS a smaller government...but a much better one.

    'Til the Rs took over the White House.

    Finally, I think Gergen was a fine advisor to Clinton and to others.  We all regret Dickie Morris on the scene...any scene...but Bill Clinton listened to everybody and then made his own decisions.  

    That's the kind of president I want and hope Obama turns out to be.

    He's making a good start down that road.

    Parent

    Some liberals (5.00 / 7) (#23)
    by Steve M on Wed Nov 26, 2008 at 12:50:30 PM EST
    will never admit that Bill Clinton's rebranding of the Democratic Party was simply necessary.  They would have had us continue to run one Dukakis after another until the end of time.

    Parent
    Indeed (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by andgarden on Wed Nov 26, 2008 at 12:58:52 PM EST
    Clinton was a realigning President. Yes, you read that right.

    Just look at California. (I  believe that Obama is set to the the same for Florida, BTW).

    Parent

    We'll see about Florida... (5.00 / 4) (#32)
    by oldpro on Wed Nov 26, 2008 at 01:04:58 PM EST
    he had to send both Bill and Hillary there to win it.  Up 'til then, Florida was a tossup.

    Parent
    A confluence of factors (5.00 / 2) (#33)
    by andgarden on Wed Nov 26, 2008 at 01:07:57 PM EST
    such as Sarah Palin and Clinton visits made Florida more competitive than it had any right to be.

    But my understanding is that Obama built a Democratic voter file for the state unlike any in recent memory. Republicans are working against a demographic time bomb that they cannot escape. (California was stage one, Virginia stage two, and Florida stage three. Texas is a few years down the line).

    Parent

    Texas? If I NEVER heard the word (none / 0) (#41)
    by oldpro on Wed Nov 26, 2008 at 01:31:35 PM EST
    'Texas' again it will be too soon.

    I had to grit my teeth to watch a rerun of "Giant" a week or so ago...a film I actually like, despite its obvious flaws.

    Parent

    Never seen it, but I hear it's good (5.00 / 2) (#42)
    by andgarden on Wed Nov 26, 2008 at 01:36:25 PM EST
    Anyway, yeah, Texas is a big red state for now, but that's almost entirely because the white people are so Republican.

    I often point out that if whites in the deep south voted like whites anywhere else except Utah and Idaho (even the EVIL1!!!!!!! West Virginia), the region would be solidly Democratic.

    Parent

    You should see me grit my teeth (5.00 / 2) (#58)
    by ruffian on Wed Nov 26, 2008 at 03:59:53 PM EST
    in layovers at Dallas-Ft Worth airport.  I walk around wanting to scream - "OK, how many of you voted for GWB as governor and inflicted him on an unsuspecting nation?"  I can barely contain my anger.  It helps when I go into a bookstore and flip all the conservative books around so their backs face the front. Small rebellions.

    Parent
    Not me (none / 0) (#66)
    by lobary on Wed Nov 26, 2008 at 08:00:21 PM EST
    I was one of the dirty (expletive deleted for Jeralyn) hippies walking around UT campus in my "Another Man for Ann" shirt during the campaign.

    The hangover I had the day after he was elected governor was outdone only by the one that followed the 2004 presidential election.

    Texas is going blue, btw.

    Parent

    Since DFW is a major airline hub ... (none / 0) (#68)
    by cymro on Thu Nov 27, 2008 at 05:46:07 AM EST
    ... I'd guess that the vast majority of passengers in the terminals at any time don't actually live in Texas. So maybe your teeth gritting is misdirected.

    Parent
    i do that with books too! (none / 0) (#69)
    by sallywally on Thu Nov 27, 2008 at 04:09:56 PM EST
    or put liberal books in front of them.....

    Parent
    I would disagree welfare reform was an (5.00 / 1) (#48)
    by BobTinKY on Wed Nov 26, 2008 at 02:06:28 PM EST
    economic success story.  And I would point out Sen Moynihan, another politician like all of them with warts of his own, opposed it.

    But to say a benefit of welfare reform was to take the issue away from the GOP I think makes my case.  Often, not always and certainly not to the point of in anyway discrediting the many accomplishments of his succesful Amdinistration,  Clinton reacted to anticipated or experienced GOP "outrage."  If the political benefit of welfare reform is as you claim, does that make it a good thing?  

    Millions of poor children put at greater economic risk to deprive the GOP of an issue that could have, and I would argue should have,  easily been turned around on them.  To me welfare pre-reform is justified becuase of the innocent kids of the so called welfare kings/queens, kids who have no ability to feed and educate themselves.  

    If we fashion policy primarily to better position ourselves politically to the opposition's anticipated attacks, what are we really doing?  Aren't we simply obtaining and maintaining our power for no real reason other than power itself?  To what end?

    Maybe that sort of approach was the best we could do in 90s.  Now now though, the GOP can scream all day and night and only their choir is listening.  And that choir does not comprise a voting plurality much less a voting majority.  

    Parent

    Yeah (5.00 / 2) (#22)
    by Steve M on Wed Nov 26, 2008 at 12:49:35 PM EST
    and when those people go on about things like bombing pharmaceutical factories I tend to dismiss them.

    Expecting Bill Clinton to personally verify the intelligence is a good example of the unrealistic expectations people impose on his administration with the benefit of hindsight.  Does he bear responsibility for the mistake, of course he does.  But how it establishes that he was not a progressive is beyond me.

    Parent

    I think that you did identify (none / 0) (#29)
    by eric on Wed Nov 26, 2008 at 12:58:57 PM EST
    the things that most anti-Clinton people cite.  It as if they don't remember the 12 years that came before Clinton.

    Clinton gave the wingers welfare reform because they had been screaming so hard about it for so long and he thought giving them some reform might shut them up.

    He made the comment about big government for the same reason.

    He was wrong, of course, it didn't shut them up.  They still yell and scream about welfare and big government.  This even though government was shrunk and welfare was gutted.

    Clinton taught us this:  giving things up to the right to try to appease them doesn't work.

    Parent

    No. He didn't.. (none / 0) (#35)
    by oldpro on Wed Nov 26, 2008 at 01:14:26 PM EST
    Clinton didn't do anything because "he thought it might shut them up."  He did was was possible and what was necessary with the tools he had.  He made progress.  On every damn front I can think of.

    The previous 12 years had set the stage for welfare reform which was proceeding in the states (you know...the laboratories) with varying degrees of success.

    Calling Bill Clinton an appeaser is outrageous.

    Apologize and take it back.

    Parent

    Geez (none / 0) (#37)
    by eric on Wed Nov 26, 2008 at 01:19:59 PM EST
    you read my comment the wrong way.  I am a big fan of Bill.  I just was saying that I think that we were all a bit naive about how the right might actually shut up if you give them some of what they want.

    I know all about the context that Bill was walking into.  Welfare reform was a serious issue and something had to be done...or so it was said.  He really had no choice.

    I loved the 90's and love them in part because I do remember the 80's.  I still wear my Clinton '92 and Clinton '96 t-shirts.

    Parent

    I read what you wrote. (5.00 / 1) (#38)
    by oldpro on Wed Nov 26, 2008 at 01:26:08 PM EST
    I had a fair amount of trouble comprehending your thought process from first sentence to last.  The last one got me.

    You see how difficult communication can be...and why Bill Clinton is the master?  You don't have to interpret what he says.

    So...OK, then.  Let's all try for a bit more clarity and avoid these little dustups.

    Parent

    Yo, Pro (5.00 / 3) (#63)
    by NYShooter on Wed Nov 26, 2008 at 06:01:39 PM EST
    You hit the nail on the head in your previous post; the part about making progress....on all fronts....with the tools he had.

    People forget the open sore, puss oozing vitriol, that greeted President Clinton from his first day in office. I remember watching TV on inauuration day when a reporter asked one of the republican "leaders," "how long a 'honeymoon' Clinton could expect?" This Gingrich Brownshirt sneered, "he's already had it."

    People also often forget that the republicans (forged into a single, immovable, force) didn't just "not cooperate" with the new President's agenda, they vowed to work 24/7, paralyze the country, and spend any amount of time and money, to destroy this man. That they were as good as their word didn't surprise me. What was shameful, and persists to this day,is the number of democrats who coughed, sneezed, and looked the other way as it was going on.

    My measure of President Clinton goes back to an interview I saw about half-way through his term. "Don't you get discouraged at the lack of progress, and the obstructionism you have to face every day?" He answered, something like this: "You know, some people think that a President is successful, or not, when they see a big signing ceremony about some big issue, performed in front of all the cameras in the Rose Garden. Me (recalling Joe Frazier) I just go at it every day. I feel as much satisfaction getting 40% of a bill I wanted, a bill that I would have gotten 10% a year ago, than 100% of a bill once a term." "Tomorrow's another day."

    THAT was the President Clinton I remember.

    Parent

    Yo, Shooter. (5.00 / 1) (#65)
    by oldpro on Wed Nov 26, 2008 at 07:52:18 PM EST
    Thanks for the thoughtful response.

    I remember, too...the only successful Democratic president in the past forty-plus years...all of which I spent in activist Democratic politics (plus ten-fifteeen more).  Exhausting.

    It gives one perspective to say the least.

    Parent

    bombing a pharma plant? (none / 0) (#56)
    by Salo on Wed Nov 26, 2008 at 03:35:53 PM EST
    oh pi!! Off now. That was targeted at bin ladens host

    Parent
    yes, repub wagging the dog (none / 0) (#70)
    by sallywally on Thu Nov 27, 2008 at 04:44:54 PM EST
    to deflect from clinton's going after al quaeda - rather spend the taxpayers' money on wild goose chases against a man who enraged them because he was so much better than they were (and are).

    Parent
    We'll see (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by lilburro on Wed Nov 26, 2008 at 12:36:49 PM EST
    if people hate Clinton so much in a year.  A year of Obama in power with a largely Clinton-era supporting staff...I don't see how the results are going to be magically different.

    They'll be busy building the myth (5.00 / 2) (#20)
    by Fabian on Wed Nov 26, 2008 at 12:43:27 PM EST
    of Obama.  And Obama won't be some Clintonesque wanna be, no way!  Obama will be unique!  Obama will be the greatest leader since Abraham Lincoln!  Obama will be more skilled in diplomacy than Benjamin Franklin!  and so on!

    Parent
    Reminds me of the Reagan (5.00 / 2) (#30)
    by oldpro on Wed Nov 26, 2008 at 01:00:08 PM EST
    acolytes.

    The biggest blog fights will be over some nut wanting to change Reagan National Airport to Obama National...or the Kennedy Space Center...or (fill in the blank....)

    Parent

    the will suggest... (none / 0) (#55)
    by Salo on Wed Nov 26, 2008 at 03:30:32 PM EST
    he's bills hostage (I'm now posting from my iPhone ) apostrohes are tough

    Parent
    Yah. (none / 0) (#59)
    by Fabian on Wed Nov 26, 2008 at 04:01:19 PM EST
    Let's see who opts for fantasy instead of reality.   I really can't see anyone leading the charge for the Mythical Obama simply because I don't think that way.  We know they are out there - it's just a matter of whether or not their narratives will gain traction.

    Parent
    Yuppers (none / 0) (#71)
    by BrassTacks on Fri Nov 28, 2008 at 02:06:09 AM EST
    The first Black President will be wonderful.  Period.  The press has already said so.  

    Parent
    "Progressive" (5.00 / 6) (#27)
    by TheRealFrank on Wed Nov 26, 2008 at 12:55:55 PM EST
    On the left blogs it has sadly been redefined to mean something self-righteous and purity-trollish, often combined with CDS.

    The dumb thing is, that I actually mostly agree with people like Bowers and Sirota if we were to talk about the issues only.

    However, the tone in which, for example, Sirota often writes just irritates me to no end. Also, it is still possible to disagree with someone and still appreciate their qualities and achievements. I disagreed with Bill Clinton on a number of things, but he was a good president.

    And, while they won't admit it, all those years of rightwing attacks on anyone named Clinton have been internalized by people on the left too.

    I supported Hillary Clinton not because I agreed with her on everything, but because she's qualified, smart as hell, and pragmatic. Which is often worth more than just agreeing with someone. If I were to pick someone whose positions are closest to mine, I'd probably end up with Kuchinich.


    I'm feeling you on Kuchinich... (5.00 / 2) (#39)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Wed Nov 26, 2008 at 01:28:14 PM EST
    I hope he runs again in 8 years. He did a great job in '08 of demonstrating just how much further to the center the other Dems were. Or to put it another way, he demonstrated just how much further to the left the others could have gone, had they been bolder.

    Parent
    good point (5.00 / 1) (#43)
    by BobTinKY on Wed Nov 26, 2008 at 01:36:39 PM EST
    and as an individual, registered Democrat, who "feels" more idealogically attuned to a Kucinich than a Hillary I do see it as important to tug thje Party to the Left.  Lord knows there are enough, or rather have been enough, pressures to move rightward.  

    I say "feels" more attuned as it is my practice, and sometimes I think not a good one, to typically vote in a more "practical" way; vote for someone who can win.  This time I went for Obama.  In '04 I eventually voted in the primary for Kerry, made somewhat easier after Dean crashed.

    I hope the progressive resurgence such as it is is successful and sustained to the point where  a vote for more progressive candidates will not seem to me to be impractical any longer.  Here's hoping.

    Parent

    let's be careful assuming the more leftward (none / 0) (#49)
    by BobTinKY on Wed Nov 26, 2008 at 02:20:06 PM EST
    among us suffers from CDS.

    I support Hillary as Senator, would love to see her on the Supreme Court, but hesitant to see her as Secretary of State.  That's not derangment, that is looking at her record assessing which views and positions of hers I value most, and looking for the position(s) where she could have the most impact on those issues with which I agree with her.

    If she is Sec of State then I hope Bill is named as her replacement for three reasons:

    1. it will help him in foregoing whatever foreign initiatives  the media is reporting he has agreed to forego if his wife is SoS,

    2. he'd hold the seat as long as he, and perhpas later HIllary again, wanted it (I remember Alfonse so I do not take a NY Senate seat lightly), and

    3. he'd be great Senator and would add weight to a pretty weak if sizable roster of Democratic Senators.  I think with Sen Kennedy's health issues another superstar in the Senate would be a great help.

    I also think the guy is the consumate politician and he would actually enjoy it.

    Parent
    Clinton accomplished a great deal (5.00 / 2) (#31)
    by BobTinKY on Wed Nov 26, 2008 at 01:04:20 PM EST
    but I would not, as a liberal Democrat, characterize him as a liberal (think the Warren Court , LBJ domestic programs, Mcgovern).  More progressive than his two predecessors and immediate successor? Of course, and thank God.

    All that you list are indeed progressive accomplishments that I fully credit President Clinton for, but it also true

    he backed off more encompassing health care reform after one ill-fated attempt in first term,
    school uniforms,
    welfare "reform,"
    supported deregulation including Glass Steagall repeal,
    "era of big government is over" (ironic in light of current events under Bush II),
    favored capital punishment (still repulsed by his going back to Arkansas to see to it a retarded man would be executed),
    foreign & defense policies and budgets that maintained without question the empire, (probably because most Americans Clinton's age and over are intellectually unwilling if not unable to question the premise of American empire, Noam Chomsky excepted),
    backtracked on opposition to GOP "free" trade policies.

    I am grateful for Clinton having served when he did and accomplishing the acheivements you list.  I can, to some extent, accept the less than progressive "acheivements" I list as the cost of doing politics in the still very conservative 1990s USA.  But today is not the 1990s.

    Folks today are hungry for progressive government, weary of and evermore opposed to GOP social wedge issues, and disgusted generally with the GOP.  It is time to further the progressive accmplishments of the Clinton Adminstration without having to compromise to squelch or pre-empt GOP "outrage."  To Hell with what the GOP thinks for now, nobody but its most hardened supporters cares.  Now is not the time to make decisions worrying about how the GOP will attack you for whatever you decide.

    I do think Obama will be more progressive than Clinton across the spectrum of issues but not because it is his inclination to so act, his appointments indicate to me it is not.  Events are demanding radical change and I believe that that change will include a restructuring and, hopfully, responsible dismantling of the empire and a reallocation of a good percentage of the trillion dollars annually that goes to its maintenance.  Not to mention the human resources that are tragically wasted on the effort.  

    We can no longer afford empire and when center to right of center baby boomers are faced with the choice of its continuing or their entitlements, well, the voting history of that generation demonstrates pretty clearly they vote for their own individual interests in a big way.  As the boomers retire government social programs like SS and Medicare will override concerns over high taxes which led most (or enough) centrist boomers to support Reagan and the Bushes.  

    With respect to the general electorate Clinton may well have been a progressive.  with repsect to today's Democratic Party which comprises more of the electrorate than at any time in recent memeory, and in light of the full spectrum of Clinton's demonstrated accomplishments AND ommissions, Clinton was the moderate DLCer he set out to portray himself as in 1992.

    Roots of CDL (5.00 / 9) (#44)
    by Brownell on Wed Nov 26, 2008 at 01:37:25 PM EST
    As a longtime civil servant, I have learned the inflexible rules of bureaucracy. The one that applies here is that THE PERSON YOU HAVE F$@KED OVER CAN NEVER BE FORGIVEN!! This is eternally true, especially if that person somehow survived your ill deeds and is still around to keep you from forgetting it.  

    After the Republicans took over Congress in 1994, the establishment Democrats who had always sneered at the Clintons for their outside-the-beltway hillbilly ways totally drank the Republican Kool-Aid in demonizing Clinton. Plus, they were (and are) cowards who failed to stand up for Clinton even when it was obvious that he was right.  They stood back and let him be impeached and his programs be defeated. They looked the other way when Gore was savaged in 2000.  As Bush policies became increasingly deranged, as it became clearer every day how disastrous the consequences of their negligence and cowardice were, these Washington Democrats hardened their belief that Clinton was the guilty cause of all the mess.  Could not possibly be them.  To me, that is the root of Clinton Derangement Syndrome.


    Yes, Brownell...nailed it. (5.00 / 1) (#67)
    by oldpro on Wed Nov 26, 2008 at 08:36:49 PM EST
    There are variations on the theme but that is the root in Dem establishment DC.

    And now Daschle has an office in the West Wing in addition to his day job.  Healthcare czar?  Not exactly subtle.  And that puts a (horrors) lobbyist in the White House!

    Are you any relation to Herb Brownell, Ike's AG and old friend of Earl Warren?

    Parent

    That's one of the best definitions..... (none / 0) (#47)
    by Maria Garcia on Wed Nov 26, 2008 at 01:54:40 PM EST
    ...of CDL I've ever read or heard.

    Parent
    I expected there to be CDS from the right (4.90 / 11) (#16)
    by kempis on Wed Nov 26, 2008 at 12:38:58 PM EST
    The right's hatred of all things Clinton was one reason I didn't want Hillary to run. And then I was so bowled over by her intelligence and knowledge and poise that I was glad she did--and was baffled why some were unable to see that she was the superior candidate if we looked solely at smarts and know-how and temperament.

    Then I was stunned to discover that many on the left hate the Clintons just as much as the right--and seemed oblivious to the fact that they mostly parroted old anti-Clinton memes invented by the right in the 90s: ambitious, lying, conniving, do-anything-to-win, etc.

    And now I'm just amused--most days. I'm glad Obama is the president because he's the closest thing to Hillary we could get. And it's hilarious to see him praised for doing much of the same stuff Clinton did--often to catcalls from the same people who applaud Obama.

    I'm relieved that our country seems to be in much more capable hands, but I will forever be perplexed by the over-the-top, irrational Clinton-hating in the "progressive" blogosphere. It's pitiful.

    What i find even more amazing is how... (5.00 / 7) (#46)
    by Maria Garcia on Wed Nov 26, 2008 at 01:48:13 PM EST
    ....people who admired and liked the Clintons turned on a dime and now parrot those same talking points. Friends of mine who marched on the hill to protest the impeachment, who swore they didn't want to wash their hand when Bill Clinton shook it in a reception line...suddenly they have convinced themselves that they never liked Bill Clinton and that they knew he was a racist all along and I can't help but gasp at how they've rewritten their own history. So I am not at all surprised that they have rewritten the entire history of the Clinton years. It's some sort of shared mass hysteria among some Democrats.

    Parent
    But Bill Clinton is evil--QED (none / 0) (#3)
    by andgarden on Wed Nov 26, 2008 at 12:28:11 PM EST
    ;-)

    and we're not talking... (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by dws3665 on Wed Nov 26, 2008 at 12:34:21 PM EST
    "the Diet Coke of evil -- just one calorie, not evil enough," either. He is the quintessence of eeevvill.

    Parent
    And that's only ONE of (5.00 / 5) (#11)
    by oldpro on Wed Nov 26, 2008 at 12:35:52 PM EST
    the things I like about him...his brand of evil.

    Works for me.

    Parent

    Don't forget trade (none / 0) (#14)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Wed Nov 26, 2008 at 12:36:54 PM EST

    Don't forget trade.  Bill got NAFTA done that resulted in many new jobs in all three NAFTA countries.

    NAFTA? (none / 0) (#25)
    by Rashomon66 on Wed Nov 26, 2008 at 12:52:48 PM EST
    There are many arguments against NAFTA that progressives can and do make.

    Parent
    Amen to that (none / 0) (#34)
    by BobTinKY on Wed Nov 26, 2008 at 01:12:25 PM EST
    Well, there's really only ONE, (none / 0) (#36)
    by oldpro on Wed Nov 26, 2008 at 01:16:10 PM EST
    isn't there?

    Can you fill me in on the 'many?'

    Parent

    You may be right (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by BobTinKY on Wed Nov 26, 2008 at 01:28:47 PM EST
    it is perhaps more accurate to say there are many progressives who would argue as opposed to many arguments presented.  

    Though one, it is a BIG one to us who oppose what has come to be called "free" trade.

    Parent

    Agree...and I think (5.00 / 1) (#50)
    by oldpro on Wed Nov 26, 2008 at 02:28:28 PM EST
    the Clintons agree as well, having seen how is applies under Republicans and with time to consider the results.

    All boats DID rise with that tide, however, in all 3 countries.

    Now it needs reform.

    Parent

    Obama is the president-elect, I shoulda said (none / 0) (#17)
    by kempis on Wed Nov 26, 2008 at 12:40:42 PM EST
    I'm just so anxious for Inauguration Day to arrive that I leaped ahead.

    Shouldn't you direct your (none / 0) (#19)
    by oculus on Wed Nov 26, 2008 at 12:42:50 PM EST
    criticism at Sirota instead of Silver?  

    President Clinton effected two (none / 0) (#51)
    by KeysDan on Wed Nov 26, 2008 at 02:59:00 PM EST
    primal achievements for the country: firstly, he defeated George HW Bush (with, for starters, his three wars in four years--the last a Somalian military adventure in his final, frenetic days in office; and secondly, he held back the social contract against America both that of Gingrich and that of  ardent theocrats on the march.  Of course, as has been well-stated, these are just the beginnings given inherited Democrats like Sam Nunn, and then a Republican congress.

    Parent
    Obama sent many signals to the right this year (none / 0) (#57)
    by Trickster on Wed Nov 26, 2008 at 03:44:44 PM EST
    All that praise of Reagan and Bush I, talk of church-going, talk of picking up the military pace in Afghanistan, and I'm just scratching the surface.

    It looks as if Obama is what he said he would be: Clinton, except wanting to more formally and forcefully reach across the aisle in an attempt to form bipartisan coalitions.  Whereas the actual Clinton in the race, I think, wanted to be Clinton except less constrained by a conservative electorate and establishment.

    The end result is that Obama's governance will be similar to what Clinton's would have been, but a slice more conservative.

    "60 New Death Penalties" (none / 0) (#60)
    by Ben Masel on Wed Nov 26, 2008 at 04:20:44 PM EST
    Free Speech Zones

    Digital Millenium Copyright Act

    Near elimination of Federal Habeas review of State sentences

    Built the architecture for Bush spying

    Stripped Livi Guidelines limiting FBI spying on dissent

    Some labels (none / 0) (#61)
    by christinep on Wed Nov 26, 2008 at 05:26:20 PM EST
    I have always considered myself a liberal. My question: Why are some "progressives" shying away from the liberal label? Where do they draw distinctions? (Truth be told, some progressives seem to bear resemblance to the old Rockefeller Republicans.)