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Who Writes A Blog? Who Can Read It?

By Big Tent Democrat, Section Blog Related
Posted on Thu Nov 20, 2008 at 10:22:49 AM EST
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Susie Madrak and Anglachel point to two funny "blog analyzer" tools. One attempts to determine whether you can tell if a blog is written by a man or a woman. Here is the TalkLeft result:

We guess http://talkleft.com is written by a man (51%), however it's quite gender neutral.

The other is a readability analyzer. Here is TalkLeft's result:

This blog's reading level: High School

Not sure if that is good or bad.

By Big Tent Democrat, speaking for me only

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    Who Writes A Blog? Who Can Read It? | 65 comments (65 topical)

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    High School? HIGH SCHOOL? (5.00 / 5) (#1)
    by LarryInNYC on Thu Nov 20, 2008 at 10:26:14 AM EST
    That's because the people who, you know, wrote that tool so totally like Josh Marshall more than you.  I heard them talking at the mall.

    Heh (5.00 / 4) (#7)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Nov 20, 2008 at 10:31:06 AM EST
    Well personally, I think if you can make good points accessible to a wider group of people then you are a better blog.

    If it takes a genius to understand what you wrote, well, then your reach is going to be a bit limited.

    Parent

    Yes. I'd say High School is a good thing (5.00 / 2) (#27)
    by Faust on Thu Nov 20, 2008 at 11:14:45 AM EST
    Memory fails me at the moment but if I recall correctly one of these speech analyzer ratings was applied to the Palin/Biden debate and Palin actually wound up at a higher grade than Biden.

    On the other hand in terms of readability Biden scored higher than Palin. Not sure if those two things were related or not.

    Point being Higher grade level is NOT necessarily better. I'm sure that the lawyers on this site could bury us in technical language if they wanted to but the purpose of a blog is more often than not to influence people and stimulate discussion not to prove that you went to college and can use big words.

    Parent

    analyzers can't judge content (none / 0) (#53)
    by clbrune on Thu Nov 20, 2008 at 04:54:18 PM EST
    Of course, some of these "analyzers" try to score the complexity of sentence structure, with the rationale that more complex = more sophisticated.

    However, by that standard, the ramblings of Sarah Palin SHOULD score much higher than someone who speaks clearly.

    It's flawed, but what can ya do, eh?

    Parent

    High is great...in fact I'd say fabulous. (none / 0) (#31)
    by Maria Garcia on Thu Nov 20, 2008 at 11:28:33 AM EST
    It means you care about being understood. And especially considering the fact that you are all lawyers, you should be especially proud.

    Parent
    I meant to say High School.... (5.00 / 2) (#33)
    by Maria Garcia on Thu Nov 20, 2008 at 11:36:13 AM EST
    ...not to suggest that you all are high when you right. I have no way of knowing that. ;-)

    Parent
    I'd like to write that analyzer (none / 0) (#36)
    by ruffian on Thu Nov 20, 2008 at 12:01:53 PM EST
    Put my software geek skills to good use!

    Would the number of posts about food and drinks be an indicator?

    Parent

    Right (none / 0) (#40)
    by Pepe on Thu Nov 20, 2008 at 01:00:00 PM EST
    Which is why Greenwald's wonkish, detail filled, sometimes complex subject matter and opinion that normally requires an in depth understanding of the subject being discussed prior to reading is one of the most read blogs on the net. But then even the educated have to have an alternate place to go.

    Parent
    Funny. But first identify (5.00 / 3) (#12)
    by oculus on Thu Nov 20, 2008 at 10:41:08 AM EST
    the era of high school.    

    Parent
    If I'm not mistaken.... (5.00 / 3) (#37)
    by kdog on Thu Nov 20, 2008 at 12:06:14 PM EST
    "Of Mice and Men", "Slaughterhouse 5", "Animal Farm", "Anthem"...all high-school reading level.

    Good company!

    Parent

    But were you required to (none / 0) (#49)
    by oculus on Thu Nov 20, 2008 at 03:13:53 PM EST
    read George Elliot's Silas Marner or Rolvaag's Giants in the Earth?  

    Parent
    I think I was assigned... (none / 0) (#54)
    by kdog on Thu Nov 20, 2008 at 05:16:02 PM EST
    "Silas Marner" and skipped it...any good?

    I had been none to veer from the curriculum now and again:)

    Parent

    Hated it in high school. Re-read (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by oculus on Thu Nov 20, 2008 at 05:19:01 PM EST
    it and read most of Elliot's novels years later.  Maybe high school age is too young for such literature, but, then again, who would pick it up later w/o some intro earlier.  

    Parent
    Silas Marner? (none / 0) (#56)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Nov 20, 2008 at 05:54:15 PM EST
    I tried to do a piece out of 'Silas Marner' in High School for a speech competition.  I thought I had recovered from that nonevent in my life and then you throw that up.......boy did I $uck.  No good at readings, only arguing.

    Parent
    Can't even imagine you performing (none / 0) (#59)
    by oculus on Thu Nov 20, 2008 at 06:06:45 PM EST
    a dramatic reading of Silas Marner!  Must confess, it wasn't 'til after I saw the Steve Martin version I re-read and admired the orig.

    Parent
    I have never seen the Steve Martin version (none / 0) (#61)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Nov 20, 2008 at 06:13:19 PM EST
    It was something that the seniors on the speech team picked out for me to do.  I can't tell you  how kind and gentle my exterior has always appeared and I was just a little punk.  I was going to do what the seniors told me to do because that is what you do unless you really want a difficult H.S. life.  Nice thing is, once you fail miserably they never want you to do it on their time again.

    Parent
    The movie is good. (none / 0) (#62)
    by oculus on Thu Nov 20, 2008 at 06:19:20 PM EST
    BTW, do you go to your high school reunions?  

    This is reminding me of 7th grade, when my social studies class tapped me to be in the UN thingee on stage in the auditorium.  I messed up on Dumbarton Oaks--not well-received by the people who brung me there.  It is a really beautiful estate in D.C., but I didn't know that then.  

    Parent

    I went to my 10 yr because I was close (none / 0) (#66)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Nov 21, 2008 at 09:07:41 AM EST
    by.  It was interesting and worth going to.  I went to my husband's 20 yr this summer and that was a blast.  Don't know if it was more fun because it wasn't my class or not.

    Parent
    No, a useful tool. . . (5.00 / 2) (#2)
    by LarryInNYC on Thu Nov 20, 2008 at 10:27:39 AM EST
    would tell us whether comments posted under two different names came from the same person.

    Although, of course, that would be followed by a comment authorship obfuscation tool designed to hide sockpuppetry.  Ah, the tech industry.

    Useful tool (5.00 / 5) (#5)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Nov 20, 2008 at 10:29:38 AM EST
    I like to think of myself as that.

    Parent
    Punching bag? (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by oculus on Thu Nov 20, 2008 at 10:51:51 AM EST


    Parent
    Rock'em sick em robot (5.00 / 3) (#24)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Nov 20, 2008 at 10:59:59 AM EST


    Parent
    This comment was obviously (5.00 / 1) (#57)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Nov 20, 2008 at 05:58:15 PM EST
    written by a man :)

    Parent
    If you ever do your own site. . . (none / 0) (#14)
    by LarryInNYC on Thu Nov 20, 2008 at 10:47:20 AM EST
    you could come up with worse names.

    Parent
    Indeed (none / 0) (#23)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Nov 20, 2008 at 10:59:40 AM EST


    Parent
    Sorry. (none / 0) (#3)
    by LarryInNYC on Thu Nov 20, 2008 at 10:28:19 AM EST
    Should read Now, a useful tool. . .

    Parent
    The average US newspaper (5.00 / 2) (#4)
    by wurman on Thu Nov 20, 2008 at 10:29:10 AM EST
    is written at the 4th or 5th grade reading level.  A "high school" reading level would be sufficient for an average person to perform competently in freshmen year college classes.

    Imagine the SAT vocabularies, sentence structures, etc.

    TPM (5.00 / 4) (#6)
    by WS on Thu Nov 20, 2008 at 10:31:00 AM EST
    gets a "Junior High School" level.  

    So was the Daily Howler (none / 0) (#42)
    by ding7777 on Thu Nov 20, 2008 at 01:41:39 PM EST
    which means my reading comprehension must be at the grade school level because there are days when I re-read the Howler just to understand the "proof" of the point he's making!

    Parent
    heh, saw that yesterday (5.00 / 2) (#8)
    by andgarden on Thu Nov 20, 2008 at 10:34:15 AM EST
    I'm told that the Times writes for an 8th grade reading level, and USA Today, along with most others, for 5th graders. It has mostly to do with sentence complexity, I think: you can write simply about complicated topics, and impenetrably about simple ones, after all.

    Yeah but thats not really true. (none / 0) (#32)
    by Maria Garcia on Thu Nov 20, 2008 at 11:32:20 AM EST
    It's just what they like to say. Take a close look at any newspaper and you'll see that the reading level varies widely from section to section.

    Parent
    Nun study (none / 0) (#65)
    by sallywally on Thu Nov 20, 2008 at 09:12:47 PM EST
    cloistered nuns over time found that those who, on their entrance essays (and later I guess), had written the most complex sentences were less likely to have ended up with dementia.

     

    Parent

    Blog Price Quotes (5.00 / 2) (#10)
    by WS on Thu Nov 20, 2008 at 10:38:11 AM EST
    Talk Left is worth almost a million bucks.  

    Red State is worth exactly nothing! Hilarious!

    How Much is Your Blog Worth?

    Others and discussion. (5.00 / 0) (#13)
    by Addison on Thu Nov 20, 2008 at 10:47:13 AM EST
    I think I've mostly used gender genie for the gender analysis.

    This is a better version of the readability tool. A number of very good utilizations of the method are down at the bottom under the "external links" heading.

    I don't know exactly what the "Blog Readability Test" you posted is drawing from and analyzing. It may be taking a bunch of links, "Reply to this," and other artifacts of a web site and inadvertantly shoving your average sentence length way down and making a site seem on a lower level than it is.

    A strict cut-paste of pure prose is a better source.

    Additionally, the "reading level score" sadly measures two entirely different things on the same metric. Most of these tests look at word difficulty (via syllable count) and average sentence length, and some more complex ones may look at syntax. So the "run-on, multi-thought sentence" component is measured in the same unit as the "length of word" component. Obviously this is not ideal.

    Definitely media outlets -- incl. public blogs for dilettantes -- should have no shame about readability around middle or high school level.

    I had to take a 10-page document from my original "16th grade" reading level down to 6th grade (two different audiences). That was "exciting" and I spent a lot of time with these tools, if only for fun...

    Ah (none / 0) (#17)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Nov 20, 2008 at 10:52:07 AM EST
    Some serious analysis. I was just having fun.

    But yours is an interesting and appreciated comment.

    Perhaps a serious discussion of this is in order.

    Parent

    I took a random excerpt (none / 0) (#20)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Nov 20, 2008 at 10:55:00 AM EST
    of mine and I got this result:

    Words: 157
    (NOTE: The genie works best on texts of more than 500 words.)

    Female Score: 374
    Male Score: 314

    The Gender Genie thinks the author of this passage is: female!

    Parent

    You must have given it one of your many (5.00 / 1) (#34)
    by Maryb2004 on Thu Nov 20, 2008 at 11:37:52 AM EST
    empathetic, touchy/feely posts.  

    Parent
    I put in a longer excerpt (none / 0) (#21)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Nov 20, 2008 at 10:57:44 AM EST
    from a more serious piece I wrote and it said:

    Words: 1114
    (NOTE: The genie works best on texts of more than 500 words.)

    Female Score: 876
    Male Score: 1653

    The Gender Genie thinks the author of this passage is: male!

    Correct!!


    Parent

    The gender thing... (none / 0) (#30)
    by Addison on Thu Nov 20, 2008 at 11:24:28 AM EST
    ...may be right on average. I don't know. But I am unaware of any constructive use of it beyond a diversionary parlor game.

    Parent
    No link to how to do (none / 0) (#22)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Nov 20, 2008 at 10:59:11 AM EST
    the readability test.

    Parent
    It was under "web services..." (5.00 / 0) (#29)
    by Addison on Thu Nov 20, 2008 at 11:21:16 AM EST
    ...on the wikipedia site I linked. I definitely think this is a fun topic too, but I think it's more fun when you look at the whole array of these tools available. The depth is more interesting and amusing than the idea.

    Here are the links from the wikipedia page:

    Online readability tool

    EULA Analyzer

    Readability calculators. Displays six differen scores.

    Readability test and terminology extraction. The terminology tool here is ESPECIALLY interesting. You can see what loaded, artificial rhetorical terms are used by which bloggers (although you might have to collect a bunch of different posts about a subject or do the analysis multiple times). Very useful when looking for subconscious worldview or bias.

    Check Text Readability

    Google Docs

    Parent

    Very cool II (none / 0) (#50)
    by MKS on Thu Nov 20, 2008 at 04:18:42 PM EST


    Parent
    Very cool (none / 0) (#51)
    by MKS on Thu Nov 20, 2008 at 04:18:56 PM EST


    Parent
    I confess (5.00 / 5) (#15)
    by DFLer on Thu Nov 20, 2008 at 10:48:14 AM EST
    I am a 51% male, 49% female, Gender Neutral High School student.

    I am so busted!

    How hilarious (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by shoephone on Thu Nov 20, 2008 at 10:52:22 AM EST
    The blog I write for is written by two women and the gender analyzer determined (75%) it is written by a man.

    We are, apparently, writing at a college level. And all this time I thought I was dumbing it down...

    if it makes you, jeralyn and TChris (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by cpinva on Thu Nov 20, 2008 at 11:20:34 AM EST
    feel any better, user manuals for the military's most sophisticated, expensive weapons systems are written at an 8th grade level.

    your grammar and syntax rates above that used for a multi-million dollar, ground-to-ground/air, rocket launcher.

    on that basis alone, this blog is very cost-effective.

    useful tool, useful fool, what's the differenc? lol

    All this is reminding me of a (5.00 / 2) (#35)
    by oculus on Thu Nov 20, 2008 at 11:46:08 AM EST
    late night diary by BTD at DK in which he repeatedly asked commenters:  "Can you not read"?  

    Proving once again (none / 0) (#39)
    by oldpro on Thu Nov 20, 2008 at 12:49:23 PM EST
    that reading and comprehension are two different things.

    Parent
    College philosophy prof to freshman: (5.00 / 1) (#47)
    by wurman on Thu Nov 20, 2008 at 02:31:43 PM EST
    "I can read it aloud, very slowly, for you, but I can't comprehend it for you."

    Parent
    I recall it as more like (5.00 / 3) (#38)
    by jes on Thu Nov 20, 2008 at 12:41:59 PM EST
    "cnat yo readn"

    What I really remember well is the (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by oculus on Thu Nov 20, 2008 at 01:38:19 PM EST
    entire diary and comments disappeared just before midnight Eastern time.  

    New subject:  remember when Digby was receiving an award and a chair was reserved for this mysterious blogger.  Much speculation:  will Digby be male or female?

    Parent

    didn't remember the details much either (none / 0) (#44)
    by jes on Thu Nov 20, 2008 at 02:22:06 PM EST
    though it seems to be the Paul Wellstone Citizen Leadership Award the Take Back America Conference - I do remember the speculation. I admit I was surprised - partly I guess because of the Howard Beale iconography.

    There were times during the primary when I wished it had never been revealed. Not because I think she would have said anything different, but because some of the attacts were so ugly.

    Parent

    Really nasty stuff (none / 0) (#48)
    by oculus on Thu Nov 20, 2008 at 03:09:58 PM EST
    from demented people I sincerely hope remain in the basement blogging 24 hours a day.

    Parent
    oh, and back to a your last comment (none / 0) (#46)
    by jes on Thu Nov 20, 2008 at 02:31:00 PM EST
    sort of. Who takes the dKos prize for deleted diaries? Talk about drama!

    Parent
    HuffPo! (none / 0) (#52)
    by NYShooter on Thu Nov 20, 2008 at 04:28:52 PM EST
    I haven't posted there in over a year, when my deleted post number hit 67. No profanity, no derogotory name calling, just not Obama Love.

    It is so profoundly sad that a popular blog is so completely duplicitous, and manipulative.

    Why Huffington is taken seriously by anyone (she even appears on Charlie Rose as a spokesperson for blogs) is the question.

    Parent

    what makes you think (5.00 / 1) (#63)
    by cpinva on Thu Nov 20, 2008 at 06:36:38 PM EST
    Why Huffington is taken seriously by anyone (she even appears on Charlie Rose as a spokesperson for blogs) is the question.

    anyone with a brain ever took her seriously? i got in line, long before it was popular, to laugh at her. were it not for hubby's cash, she'd be just another middle-class housefrau, worrying about junior's grades.

    Parent

    Yikes! (none / 0) (#64)
    by NYShooter on Thu Nov 20, 2008 at 08:02:27 PM EST
    Charlie Rose?

    Parent
    Now that's funny. n/t (5.00 / 2) (#43)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Thu Nov 20, 2008 at 02:22:01 PM EST


    Parent
    I remember those BTD diaries :) (5.00 / 1) (#58)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Nov 20, 2008 at 06:02:47 PM EST


    Parent
    Exeter (none / 0) (#11)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Nov 20, 2008 at 10:38:51 AM EST
    I deleted your comment because your link broke the margin. Here it is - Link.

    Plus, strictly speaking, your comment is off topic.

    Steve Clemons is 64% male. (none / 0) (#19)
    by ThatOneVoter on Thu Nov 20, 2008 at 10:53:54 AM EST
    I always thought he was a bit "metro"

    Well. . . (none / 0) (#25)
    by andgarden on Thu Nov 20, 2008 at 11:03:28 AM EST


    Parent
    Genius? (none / 0) (#26)
    by carvednstonedem on Thu Nov 20, 2008 at 11:10:19 AM EST
    Apparently the ramblings over at Powerline are intended for geniuses

    Yeah but... (none / 0) (#45)
    by Rashomon66 on Thu Nov 20, 2008 at 02:24:22 PM EST
    Well, since Anglachel usually refers to Obama as 'Precious' all the time I guess we know who really has a High School mentality.
    Talk Left is a much smarter site.

    "Precious"? Toni Morrison should (none / 0) (#60)
    by oculus on Thu Nov 20, 2008 at 06:09:37 PM EST
    sue.

    Parent
    Who Writes A Blog? Who Can Read It? | 65 comments (65 topical)

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