Thursday Night Open Thread

Congratulations to Mick Jagger on the birth of his 8th child.

I don't get why so many people are trashing him for having a child at age 73. He's got more energy than most people half his age and will probably live long enough to see his son go to college or start a band. More power to him. It's so Rock n' Roll.

Madonna is also getting a lot of criticism for her "twerking" during last night's Carpool Karaoke with James Corden. I liked it. She's 58 and enough of a philanthropist that people should just get off her case and let her do what she wants. At least she's not sucking up to Donald Trump like Leonardo di Caprio who met with Trump and the other Mrs. Trump (Ivanka) and gave him a copy of his foundation's plan for the economy and climate control -- along with a copy of his new film about it.

Time for El Chema, episode 3 (Telemundo.)

This is an open thread, all topics welcome.

< Donald Trump: An American Tragedy
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    Clinton Spox Jennfer Palmieri won't back down. (5.00 / 2) (#1)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Dec 09, 2016 at 02:41:27 AM EST
    After her public dust-up with Trump campaign manager Kellyanne Conway at Harvard University last week, Ms. Palmieri sounds like she's in no mood to be gracious, particularly when it comes to the subject of Trump's empowerment of the white nationalist movement. And neither am I, so speaking for myself only, good for her.

    From Ms. Palmieri's op-ed in the Dec. 7 Washington Post:

    "I know how to be a gracious loser. I could have let it go last week when Kellyanne Conway, Donald Trump's campaign manager, challenged me to look her in the eye and say she ran a campaign that gave white supremacists a platform. I considered for a split second. I knew you were supposed to be gracious when you come for the post-election forum at Harvard's Kennedy School of Government. But I decided this was a year where normal rules don't apply. Speaking the truth was more important.

    "'It did. Kellyanne, it did,' I told her. It's just a fact. Trump winning the election doesn't change that. To my mind, his win makes it all the more important that the truth be acknowledged."


    "I don't know whether the Trump campaign needed to give a platform to white supremacists to win. But the campaign clearly did, and it had the effect of empowering the white-nationalist movement. Trump provided a platform by retweeting white nationalists -- giving their views an audience of millions. Views previously relegated to the darkest corners of the Internet also had a platform on Breitbart, the website of Trump campaign chief executive Stephen K. Bannon.

    "'Before Trump, our identity ideas, national ideas, they had no place to go,' said Richard Spencer, president of a white-nationalist think tank that held a post-election conference in Washington. Former Ku Klux Klan leader David Duke said this fall, 'The fact that Donald Trump's doing so well, it proves that I'm winning.'

    "At Harvard, some on the Trump team crowed that we in the Clinton campaign and those in the press were foolish because we took Trump's words 'literally.' That's right. We did. You should take a candidate for president's words literally. You know who else took his words literally? White supremacists. The white supremacists who lauded Trump with cries of 'Hail, Trump!' Duke, who expressed confidence that Trump's decision to make Bannon his chief strategist meant Duke's ideology would have a prominent place in the West Wing. The students who mocked Hispanic athletes with chants of 'build that wall.' The man in New York City who threatened the off-duty female Muslim police officer last weekend.

    "It's also true that many of the more than 65 million people who voted for Clinton took Trump's words literally. Many of our supporters were sincerely frightened by his campaign's embrace of the alt-right. Hispanic families who voted for Clinton believe Trump will deport their parents or siblings because he said he would. Muslim supporters fear they will not be welcome in their own country because of Trump's proposed Muslim ban. Mothers and fathers of both parties supported Clinton because they didn't want their children growing up in an America where women and girls don't feel respected by their own president."

    Definitely worth a read.

    Happy Birthday, Kirk Douglas, ... (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Dec 09, 2016 at 07:44:59 PM EST
    "Yes, I know who Judas was. He was a man I worked for and admired, until he disgraced the four stars on his uniform."
    - Col. Martin Casey (Kirk Douglas), Seven Days in May (1964)

    ... who's 100 years young today.

    I've always enjoyed his work in... (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by desertswine on Fri Dec 09, 2016 at 08:05:14 PM EST
    "Lust for Life" and "Paths of Glory."  Two of his smaller films perhaps, but he's at the top of his game.

    Heh (2.00 / 1) (#2)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Dec 09, 2016 at 10:32:56 AM EST
    But I decided this was a year where normal rules don't apply. Speaking the truth was more important.

    I agree.

    Truth is important??? (5.00 / 1) (#3)
    by Yman on Fri Dec 09, 2016 at 02:30:27 PM EST
    So you supported Trump, the guy who is constantly making up false "facts".

    Scope of Trump's falsehoods unprecedented for a modern presidential candidate.



    One question I have is (none / 0) (#5)
    by jondee on Fri Dec 09, 2016 at 03:57:35 PM EST
    how much the opioid scourge effected this past election.

    One of the other main differences between 2012 and 2016 in the Rust Belt is the big increase in the number of opioid addicts..

    More proof that taking drugs won't automatically turn you into a thinker of depth and profundity like Thomas De Quincy and William Burroughs?

    Well, my expectation would be that if you (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Dec 09, 2016 at 04:26:53 PM EST
    are an addict, your motivation for things that are not "opioid" related - like voting - would diminish.

    I did read that the "Democratic support in the Rust Belt collapsed as a huge number of Democrats stayed home".


    That's the voter suppression scourge (none / 0) (#14)
    by Towanda on Fri Dec 09, 2016 at 09:15:16 PM EST
    . . . although, of course, thw media's election-nght statements about low turnout overall were wrong.

    But in some demographic groups, such as Affrican Americans in Michigan and Wisconsin -- meaning, Detroit and Milwaukee -- either voter suppression worked . . . or the vaunted "Obama coalition" didn't work, as Obama only can get out the voters for Obama.  Plus, Obama cancelled out on the major rally in Wisconsin that was supposed to kick off the general campaign.

    And, of course, Sanders so poisoned the party in the primaries that millennial voters went third party far more in Michigan and especially in Wisconsin (where the Obama visit could have had huge impact in countering the Sanders poison).

    Probably all were  factors, and far more than opioids.


    In other words, (none / 0) (#7)
    by MKS on Fri Dec 09, 2016 at 05:20:05 PM EST
    a troll.

    Gotta be a remedy for that.

    Thank goodness (none / 0) (#8)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Dec 09, 2016 at 07:18:36 PM EST
    And that will be the last and only thing I'll say to you today

    trumps own words (none / 0) (#12)
    by linea on Fri Dec 09, 2016 at 08:19:20 PM EST
    revealed himself to be a person who despises or is strongly prejudiced against women, illicitallty sexualy fondles women, and is a sexual voyeur of young girls. this is my opinion of his actions of barging into young girl's dressing rooms and his comments of "grabbing women by the pvssy."

    but i agree as a political argument calling him a "racist, evil, meanie" was ineffectual particularly in a race where trump was promising to bring back industrial jobs to middle america and hillary was viewed as the (disengenous) poster child for globalism.

    Viewed by some (5.00 / 2) (#13)
    by Yman on Fri Dec 09, 2016 at 08:53:18 PM EST
    ... in a race where trump was promising to bring back industrial jobs to middle america and hillary was viewed as the (disengenous) poster child for globalism.

    Then again, you don't cater to ignorance but fight back against it.


    It (none / 0) (#16)
    by FlJoe on Fri Dec 09, 2016 at 09:33:08 PM EST
    was impossible to ignore the 800 pound gorilla in the room, nobody listened to that wonky policy stuff anyway.

    Trumps campaign was built on lies, bigotry and demagoguery. It's a hard push to think that ignoring that would be a good way to fight it.


    Trump's cabinet has become... (none / 0) (#15)
    by desertswine on Fri Dec 09, 2016 at 09:22:15 PM EST
    the thing that nightmares are made of.

    Trump's Pick for Interior Secretary Wants to Sell of Public Lands.

    On the League of Conservation Voters scorecard, which tracks environmental votes in Congress, McMorris Rodgers has a lifetime score of 4 percent. Her 2015 score was zero. Another  climate-denier.