Thursday Afternoon Open Thread

By Jeralyn, Section Blog Related
Posted on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 12:32:17 PM EST
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I'll be working the rest of the day. Here's an open thread for you. Please try to focus on news and policy.

The American Constitution Society (ACS):

A timely new ACS Issue Brief urges the federal government to ensure that records from the Bush administration and future administrations, including e-mails, are preserved for public examination, an issue that was in the news this week as a federal court ruled that a lawsuit on that issue could go forward.

More...

In “The White House: Off Limits to Historians?” Meredith Fuchs, general counsel of the National Security Archive at George Washington University, notes that historians and political scientists regard presidential records as providing invaluable information in analyzing and understanding governmental policy. Fuchs explains that “over the last eight years, there have been a series of moves by the current Administration that may ensure that records of the White House and the federal offices and agencies that work closely with the White House will not be available to historians.”

The ACS also has a collection of suggestions by various officials and former officials on how to reform the Justice Department. I haven't read them, so I can't say whether I agree with any, but I'm sure they are worth a read.

< How Will Obama Reform the Justice Department? | How Hillary Would Have Done >

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Thursday Afternoon Open Thread | 40 comments (40 topical)

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Many people marching, chanting, (5.00 / 1) (#16)
by oculus on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 03:17:27 PM EST

carrying signs last night in the park across from Lincoln Center. March proceeded south on Broadway, I think. Purpose: advocate gay marriage. Impressive turn out.

I'm slightly encouraged (none / 0) (#17)
by CST on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 03:22:42 PM EST

By the post-prop 8 media. CNN has been referring to it as "marriage equality" and I think the opposition to bigotry has finally been mobilized and are making their voices heard. I don't remember this kind of backlash against the other bans a few years ago.

Prop 8 was a heartbreaker, but I think it may have been the last straw that has really brought out the activists and changed the conversation a bit. That, along with the youth split is making me feel a bit better about the future prospects.

[ Parent ]

Gavin Newsome is "out" (none / 0) (#18)
by Fabian on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 03:28:42 PM EST

and leading the charge.

Any other Dems lending their voices?

[ Parent ]

Yea (5.00 / 1) (#20)
by CST on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 03:35:35 PM EST

All the regular people marching in the street.
They're making they're voices heard.

I don't mean from a leadership perspective yet (unfortunately). But the people are speaking and the MSM is picking it up. I hope Dem leadership is paying attention.

I did say "slightly" encouraged. I need a silver lining somewhere.

[ Parent ]

: Arnold Schwartzenegger is out also. (none / 0) (#21)
by oculus on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 03:39:08 PM EST

Earlier this week I met a young gay law student who canvassed in Ohio for Obama. He prefers Obama not make gay marriage a signal issue of his Presidency. Too many other issues he considers more crucial.

[ Parent ]

Saw a pic of Whoopi (none / 0) (#23)
by Amiss on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 03:53:25 PM EST

in the marchers, dont think Barbara was too happy, LOL.

[ Parent ]

: Melissa Etheridge will be on Oprah tomorrow (none / 0) (#28)
by nycstray on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 05:54:48 PM EST

about this and there's a nationwide protest Sat.

[ Parent ]

Politico is reporting that (5.00 / 1) (#37)
by Dr Molly on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 07:45:42 PM EST

women's groups may have successfully derailed the Summers pick for Treasury Secretary.

A couple.... (none / 0) (#1)
by kdog on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 12:59:23 PM EST

recent police brutality cases in the NY.

You'd think anal sodomy would be a once in a lifetime instance of police brutality...think again. This one was almost quickly swept under the rug, until a brave transit officer came forward backing up the victim's story.

And this poor woman gets pepper-sprayed for walking down the staircase marked up. LINK
Looks like it may cost the city 3 mill...in a time of economic crisis in the city, we can't have out of control cops pulling this sh*t anymore, we can't afford it..not to mention the more important police-state tyranny aspect of an out of control police force. Pepper spraying a young women for trying to catch a train? Good lord...

Can Obama be of assistance in "changing" any of this sh*t?

None of this will stop (none / 0) (#3)
by eric on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 01:24:01 PM EST

until we end the culture of police/authority worship in society in general. Most people are so profoundly deferential to anyone with a badge. Even with all of the stories like these out there, the police are continually thanked for their "brave service". This only emboldens the police further. People to learn that the police are not your friends.

[ Parent ]

Ever wonder how we came to... (none / 0) (#5)
by kdog on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 01:30:59 PM EST

worship authority? I mean..America was once famous for its outlaw tradition, respecting authority was for countries with monarchs and tyrants.

Was it the counter-culture movement in the 60's-70's that made people fear each other more than power, the high crime rates of the 80's?

Interesting to ponder...

[ Parent ]

: It is a really good (none / 0) (#6)
by eric on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 01:41:29 PM EST

question. I just remember being sort of brain-washed about it when I was growing up in the 70's and 80's. We were supposed to revere the police and hate communism. ;)

[ Parent ]

2008 GE was to be biggest voter turnout ever. (none / 0) (#2)
by Saul on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 01:22:29 PM EST

Was it really?

Since Obama was running there was a frenzy of news in the media that voter registration was at an all time high like never before. Does any body know how many new voters got registered to vote in 2008?

In 2004 the total popular vote between Kerry and Bush was 121,068,715
In 2008 the total popular vote between Obama and Mcain was 124,286,041

Roughly only a 3 million vote difference.

It seems to me that the total popular votes of 2008 were pretty close to the 2004 election. So what happen to the masses that were suppose to vote in 2008? I do not consider 3 million a major mass change of voters.

Republicans stayed home (none / 0) (#9)
by CST on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 02:17:49 PM EST

That's what happened.

[ Parent ]

I doubt that (none / 0) (#10)
by Saul on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 02:38:32 PM EST

[ Parent ]

I didn't make it up (none / 0) (#12)
by CST on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 02:48:57 PM EST

See here.

For a synopsis (from CNN):

"A downturn in the number and percentage of Republican voters going to the polls seemed to be the primary explanation for the lower than predicted turnout," the report said. Compared to 2004, Republican turnout declined by 1.3 percentage points to 28.7 percent, while Democratic turnout increased by 2.6 points from 28.7 percent in 2004 to 31.3 percent in 2008.

I don't know if that is the increase you were looking for, or what the historical implications are - but Republican turnout did go down this year.

[ Parent ]

: Well could be (none / 0) (#14)
by Saul on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 03:00:18 PM EST

but does anyone know how many new registered voters were created in 2008. So as a general rule if you are all gun ho on registering then as a general rule you go and vote that same year. So again how many new voters registered this year and what percent of those that were new registered voters actually voted.

[ Parent ]

Indeed, they did (none / 0) (#13)
by andgarden on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 02:52:04 PM EST

More Democrats were generated too, though.

[ Parent ]

I guess (none / 0) (#22)
by Amiss on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 03:48:24 PM EST

that is why it is being reported that Alaska's voter count was waaay down this year.

[ Parent ]

Why there are bad juvenile justice laws... (none / 0) (#4)
by magster on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 01:25:09 PM EST

This incident is unbelievable.

: Yikes (none / 0) (#8)
by blogtopus on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 02:17:44 PM EST

They found out that criminals that can fit the category 'psychopath' usually have an undersized Amygdala, the source of emotion and in this case, fear. They have no mental consequences for doing damaging or 'wrong' things.
In a Brave New World situation, It would an interesting screening for future abusers... my guess is W. is pretty much in that class, and perhaps more than a few genius scientists as well! :-P
This kid needs to be looked after carefully for the rest of his life... he's a bigger disaster waiting to happen.

[ Parent ]

Freedom-Haters on the march... (none / 0) (#7)
by kdog on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 02:07:28 PM EST

in ATL...Link

It is their right of course, but c'mon...may as well ban the sale of apples too, ya can smoke out of that too.

there are marijuana addicts? (none / 0) (#19)
by of1000Kings on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 03:32:52 PM EST

wow, who knew...

[ Parent ]

Seriously.... (none / 0) (#24)
by kdog on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 03:54:38 PM EST

To tie it in to the gun-control thread the other day, I hope the gun-lovers are watching...

First they came for the bongs, and I did nothing because I do not burn...

[ Parent ]

Too funny, I thought you might make (none / 0) (#26)
by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 04:03:44 PM EST

a comment like that.

Guns and drugs are not equal. Nor is hitchhiking, dumping old engine oil in the sewer or posting election signs on public land.

First they came for the hitchhikers, and I did nothing because I have no thumbs...

[ Parent ]

Ya know, this is sounding a little harsher (none / 0) (#27)
by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 05:15:38 PM EST

than I meant it when I wrote it - no offense was intended...

[ Parent ]

: Not sure if it was too harsh... (none / 0) (#39)
by Thanin on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 09:43:16 PM EST

and personally Im for legalized marijuana (although I do not do it), this line:
First they came for the hitchhikers, and I did nothing because I have no thumbs...
was worth it.

[ Parent ]

guns and drugs are not related... (none / 0) (#38)
by of1000Kings on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 09:30:15 PM EST

but liberties are...

should we ban guns just because a percentage of persons misuse them?

should we ban drugs just because a percentage of persons misuse them?

what's more dangerous, an AK47 or a bong?

discuss....

[ Parent ]

Not equal... (none / 0) (#40)
by kdog on Fri Nov 14, 2008 at 08:45:46 AM EST

but there are similarities my brother.

Guns and drugs both get a bad rap, and are assigned undue blame that should be assigned solely to the human beings that use them.

Anti-liberty prohibitionists target and demonize both.

Both should be available to free American citizens without fear of fine or arrest...no question in my mind. Liberty demands nothing less. That being said, if you commit a real crime while wielding a gun or under the influence of drugs you should be punished...no excuses like "I was high" or "It went off by accident"...full and total accountability coupled with liberty.

[ Parent ]

I'll find out today if the corporate (none / 0) (#11)
by Fabian on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 02:44:16 PM EST

axe cuts short my husband's career.

He has his job by the virtue of being in the top 5% of his field. (What happened to the other 95%? One guess.) We've seen the axe fall many times before and he was officially separated at one point, but found a new position.

I'm not happy.

I hope you get good news. (5.00 / 1) (#29)
by tigercourse on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 07:06:48 PM EST

: Somewhat good news. (none / 0) (#36)
by Fabian on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 07:44:36 PM EST

The sales force is targeted. The people who actually make the widgets are safe for now.
"Make widgets" sounds so easy! They create entirely new products, design them, build them, test them and make sure they place nicely with the platforms and other software.

[ Parent ]

GBCW (none / 0) (#15)
by rilkefan on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 03:11:10 PM EST

See here. The deleted comment called on BTD to treat polite commenters he disagrees with more civilly and (perhaps the real offense) linked to this exchange in that context. As I noted to Jeralyn in email a long time ago, I won't blog at places where my comments get erased, and I haven't had much of use to say in non-BTD threads for a while.

I've greatly appreciated this site over the last I think five years. I've contributed only sporadically to the conversation because the commentariat here has little to learn from me and a lot to teach. Along with my thanks to the management, I'd like to especially note Steve M and andgarden and wish Teresa luck with our hometown Vols.

Mitch Mitchell dies... (none / 0) (#25)
by desertswine on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 04:01:51 PM EST

He was one of the great drummers.

Hillary Secretary of State? (none / 0) (#30)
by squeaky on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 07:17:54 PM EST

There's talk, indeed, that Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-N.Y.) may now be under consideration for the post. Her office referred any questions to the Obama transition; Obama spokesman Tommy Vietor declined to comment.
The pick of the former presidential contender and Senate Armed Services Committee member would go a long way toward healing any remaining divisions within the Democratic Party after the divisive primaries. Also, Clinton has long been known for her work on international women's issues and human rights. The former first lady could also enhance Obama's efforts to restore U.S. standing amongst allies worldwide.
And Obama could put her in his speed-dial for a 3 a.m. phone call every morning.

WaPo Al Kamen & Philip Rucker

Sounds smart to me.

Hi squeaky (none / 0) (#31)
by Dr Molly on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 07:20:31 PM EST

Got my fingers crossed on this one. Would be a great choice for many reasons.

[ Parent ]

Yes, a great choice (5.00 / 1) (#34)
by KeysDan on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 07:31:03 PM EST

only reservation being the loss of her presence in the senate, and the potential loss of independence. But putting probably the most famous woman in the world in this position of particular importance would be great for all.

[ Parent ]

Great For America, The World, Etc (none / 0) (#32)
by squeaky on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 07:25:49 PM EST

And a better for her than Veep, imo. Although I was sorely disappointed (and still am) with Biden.

[ Parent ]

Yes, better than VEEP (none / 0) (#33)
by Dr Molly on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 07:27:06 PM EST

And more fitting for her, considering her work on international women's and children's rights. It seems perfect.

[ Parent ]

: P.S. (5.00 / 1) (#35)
by CST on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 07:42:09 PM EST

It's nice to have you and squeaky back :)

[ Parent ]