Monday Open Thread

Since I unleashed my animus for McCain all day, here's an Open Thread to talk about something else.

< Why Is McCain Angry? Because He Is Facing A Landslide Loss | WSJ/NBC Poll: Obama/Biden Widen Lead >
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    American Experience: Jimmy Carter (5.00 / 1) (#3)
    by WS on Mon Oct 06, 2008 at 04:56:44 PM EST
    tonight 8 pm on PBS.  I keep seeing that ad to the right and now I'll go watch it.

    KO is doing a special comment on Palin (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by Teresa on Mon Oct 06, 2008 at 05:24:53 PM EST
    I think. It's the #1 recommended diary on DK right now. I didn't read it but the title says that.

    Yay Keith. Give them more ammo to attack the liberal media. Make me remember the KKK one you did on HC. Why doesn't he shut up?

    I heard on CNN that before the debate, Obama's campaign sent a text out to all his supporters telling them to watch it on CNN. I hope it hurt Keith's feelings.

    He loves his own voice... (5.00 / 2) (#19)
    by kredwyn on Mon Oct 06, 2008 at 05:28:22 PM EST
    and his adoring crowds swoon at his comments.

    Star Trek: Bread and Circuses (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by jerry on Mon Oct 06, 2008 at 05:29:08 PM EST
    Whenever I hear of KO doing a "special comment", I think of the Star Trek Episode: Bread and Circuses, where, IIRC, the brutal slaying of a gladiator on TV was declared a special performance.

    Bread and Circuses.  Keith Olbermann.



    "Special" is becoming kind of ordinary (none / 0) (#23)
    by Teresa on Mon Oct 06, 2008 at 05:31:12 PM EST
    now isn't it?

    Perhaps, but the Philosophy of Star Trek (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by jerry on Mon Oct 06, 2008 at 05:36:11 PM EST
    can tell everyone all they need to know about life.... :)

    So now he's telling people what station (5.00 / 1) (#38)
    by nycstray on Mon Oct 06, 2008 at 06:22:48 PM EST
    to watch?!

    Sorry, that's just freakin' disturbing.


    At least it wasn't MSNBC :) (none / 0) (#42)
    by Teresa on Mon Oct 06, 2008 at 06:50:48 PM EST
    He didn't. (none / 0) (#48)
    by indy in sc on Mon Oct 06, 2008 at 07:26:13 PM EST
    I got the text--it said watch the debate on any of the major networks or cable.

    We caught CNN in a fib then. That's what (none / 0) (#57)
    by Teresa on Mon Oct 06, 2008 at 08:18:23 PM EST
    they said on the Situation Room.

    Someone has to say it... (none / 0) (#43)
    by Michael429 on Mon Oct 06, 2008 at 06:54:44 PM EST
    Forgive my Palin derangment syndrome but someone needs to point out what a lying, sleaze-ball Palin is. It is a FACT that Palin and her husband are connected to a domestic terrorist group...It is also a FACT that Palin has a connection to a deranged, anti-semitic witchdoctor...It is also a FACT that Bible Spice has ties to the corrupt thug Ted Stevens...Palin is a terrorist and un-American as they come. What else do you call it when you want Alaska to break off from the United States? Guilt by association works both ways, you know. Is Olbermann prone to partisan hyperbole? Certainly. Do I see why Clinton supporters hate him? I do. But that doesn't change the fact that someone in the mainstream media needs to address the sheer hypocrisy on displace in Palin's hate speeches. Also, all these people who talk about how going after Palin will only help her in the polls seem to be forgotting that her rating have only gone down from attacks on her in the last few weeks. The SNL mocking and media comments on the Katie Couric debacle have done nothing but harm her in the court of public opinion.

    All those things can be pointed out (and (5.00 / 1) (#45)
    by Teresa on Mon Oct 06, 2008 at 07:00:08 PM EST
    most have been) in a nicer way than KO does it. I just don't think he's doing Obama any favors with this.

    I still think more needs to be said... (none / 0) (#47)
    by Michael429 on Mon Oct 06, 2008 at 07:13:32 PM EST
    I haven't seen the MSM nor the Obama campaign address the inherent hypocrisy of Palin's comment.

    Nope, some are not facts, some are (none / 0) (#50)
    by Cream City on Mon Oct 06, 2008 at 07:30:27 PM EST
    but we've covered them here; see the archives.

    The polling stuff is true.  So why worry?


    Btw, I can see Alaska's side of it (none / 0) (#51)
    by Cream City on Mon Oct 06, 2008 at 07:33:28 PM EST
    as the way that we stole and bought out land from under the First People here is a stain on our history as a "free nation" forever -- and so was and is our treatment of our colonies, as a country that rebelled against being a colony.

    And I consider Native Americans to be, well, as American as they come.  Kinda hard to dispute that.


    Texas supposedly has the right (none / 0) (#65)
    by MKS on Mon Oct 06, 2008 at 08:50:49 PM EST
    the divide into five separate states.....

    Somehow I do not think the Alaskan separatists are Native Americans--it didn't have that feel in the few clips I've seen...


    Polls you missed (5.00 / 0) (#16)
    by magster on Mon Oct 06, 2008 at 05:26:06 PM EST
    Democracy Corps poll: Obama up 6 in OH.

    Suffolk: Obama up 12 in VA.

    SUSA:  Obama up 13 in NH.

    All of these were listed in Open Left's Quick Hits.

    The NBC/Wall St. Journal nat'l poll coming out any minute. Teaser: Obama/Biden win debates 51 - 28.

    NBC/Wall St. Journal (none / 0) (#26)
    by magster on Mon Oct 06, 2008 at 05:34:08 PM EST
    49-43 for Obama.  Up form 48-46 last week.

    But Pat Buchanan said Palin won the debates...?


    More on the Keith Olbermann connection.... (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by jerry on Mon Oct 06, 2008 at 05:32:05 PM EST
    From memory alpha:

    The episode parodies the television industry in several ways. Fake applause and catcalls are used to simulate a studio audience, and the race for high television ratings is lampooned several times. The TV station manager threatens the now-pacifist runaway slave that he had better fight convincingly: "You bring this station's ratings down, Flavius, and we'll do a special on you!"

    This is enough to make (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by oculus on Mon Oct 06, 2008 at 06:24:45 PM EST
    Your link isn't working (none / 0) (#54)
    by nycstray on Mon Oct 06, 2008 at 08:11:46 PM EST
    and that story seems to have dropped of the yahoo radar. I read it a bit earlier, but now doesn't seem to be on their list (unless I'm just missing it)

    second try: (5.00 / 1) (#69)
    by oculus on Mon Oct 06, 2008 at 10:46:26 PM EST
    Re the Ras polls (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by andgarden on Mon Oct 06, 2008 at 06:50:37 PM EST
    I believe that Obama is actually leading in OH, and that these polls probably understate Obama's lead everywhere. However, I predicted, and stand by that prediction, that Florida would be a better state for him.

    Bad news (5.00 / 1) (#53)
    by andgarden on Mon Oct 06, 2008 at 08:08:37 PM EST
    Support for Proposition 8 in CA is apparently picking up.

    Another reminder that your vote can matter for all sorts of reasons, even in a safe state.

    Not good (none / 0) (#56)
    by MKS on Mon Oct 06, 2008 at 08:17:04 PM EST
    Those in favor of Prop 8 have been on television here with commercials saying that gay marriage will cause churches to lose their tax exemption, get sued for disrimination if they do not perform gay marriage, and require that gay marriage be taught in school.

    The LDS (Mormon) Church is the biggest financial backer of prop 8, and they have sent people out door knocking....


    Still below 50% (none / 0) (#59)
    by andgarden on Mon Oct 06, 2008 at 08:21:27 PM EST
    but I don't like how much this has changed.

    I thought it wasn't supposed to be possible.


    Those opposed to prop 8 (none / 0) (#60)
    by MKS on Mon Oct 06, 2008 at 08:23:42 PM EST
    need to respond to the tv commercial--it is very effective and what may be driving the change in the polls....

    Got to find a place to donate (none / 0) (#64)
    by lilburro on Mon Oct 06, 2008 at 08:49:48 PM EST
    so that Prop 8 doesn't become law...

    BTW, Obama is against Prop 8.  


    Comments from the crowds (5.00 / 0) (#55)
    by MKS on Mon Oct 06, 2008 at 08:12:14 PM EST
    at McCain/Palin rally included a call to "kill" Obama, and shouts that he was a "terrorist."

    Here is crowd reaction to a Palin speech, via Dana Milbank of the Washington Post:

    "And, according to the New York Times, he was a domestic terrorist and part of a group that, quote, 'launched a campaign of bombings that would target the Pentagon and our U.S. Capitol,'" she continued.

    "Boooo!" the crowd repeated.

    "Kill him!" proposed one man in the audience.

    Dana Milbank messed up a quote before regarding what Obama said at a speech last Summer....But I think this probably happened--especially given the crowd reaction below.

    Here is the crowd at a McCain rally...They call Obama a "terrorist," according to Marc Ambinder listening to this clip:

    The reality is that a member of McCain's audience went there today. You can hear it clearly on this video clip taken from MSNBC-- after McCain asks "Who is the real Barack Obama?" the first, loudest voice can be heard answering "Terrorist!"

    It is hard for me to make out the shouting of the word "terrorist" but the crowd creeps me out--too much like an angry mob.

    I hope Dana messed up. That's awful. What (5.00 / 1) (#58)
    by Teresa on Mon Oct 06, 2008 at 08:21:04 PM EST
    would a Secret Service person there to protect Palin do in that situation? Shouldn't they go get the guy who yelled that? It will be interesting to see if anyone else heard it.

    Man (5.00 / 1) (#62)
    by Steve M on Mon Oct 06, 2008 at 08:40:30 PM EST
    That's some seriously creepy stuff.

    I'd just clarify, though, it sounds like the crowd wanted to kill Ayers and not Obama.  For whatever difference it makes.


    Could be (5.00 / 0) (#63)
    by MKS on Mon Oct 06, 2008 at 08:47:00 PM EST
    but the crowd had been booing Obama and the audience reaction had been directed at him....

    Still very creepy....


    I must admit (none / 0) (#67)
    by lilburro on Mon Oct 06, 2008 at 09:07:04 PM EST
    that just ain't Christian-like...

    Obama leading McCain (1.00 / 0) (#66)
    by Julianne on Mon Oct 06, 2008 at 09:02:39 PM EST
    Everyone is so worried about Sarah Palin's experience when she will only be the vice president whereas Obama will be the president (if elected) and he doesn't have as much experience as she does. At least she has had the experience of running a state as well as being a mayor before that. I feel such a sense of dread if Obama gets elected. If we think we are in economic trouble now, I shudder to think what it will be like with him in office. He's so indecisive, he can't make a decision. Joe Biden wil have to make all the decisions so why didn't the Democratic party just let him be the party pick in the 1st place instead of flaunting Obama around.

    My live-in step daughter, who provides much (none / 0) (#2)
    by Teresa on Mon Oct 06, 2008 at 04:55:03 PM EST
    entertainment, just started her junior year in high school. Last week, they had to order their senior rings. When did senior rings start costing $500?? What do poor kids do? Are they just left out?

    I dread prom night. I think I will offer to sign the title over to my car (that she wrecked 27 days after getting her license) to her if she'll not go. I guess a 16 year old can't have a car in their name, though.

    What do poor kids do? (5.00 / 3) (#5)
    by CST on Mon Oct 06, 2008 at 05:03:05 PM EST
    I Never got a class ring.  High school or college.

    And I'm not poor, just not rich either.

    In other news I just finished paying for my diploma last week!  (2 years after I finished school... yes I still have loans, but I don't owe the school any more money)

    I swear after all the financial pain it's caused me, I'm gonna frame it and wear it around my neck like a Flava flav clock.


    Congratulations! (5.00 / 0) (#6)
    by Teresa on Mon Oct 06, 2008 at 05:08:47 PM EST
    I didn't get a ring in college either. I married young and we were both in school so we couldn't afford them. I never missed it to tell you the truth.

    I wonder if Flav is still with the last woman he picked?


    For my PhD university... (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by kredwyn on Mon Oct 06, 2008 at 05:27:02 PM EST
    I got the school's seal in a gold pendant and had the PhD etched into the back.

    It's stylish, and I wear it often.


    I graduated HS in 1967 (5.00 / 0) (#52)
    by rdandrea on Mon Oct 06, 2008 at 08:03:21 PM EST
    I got a class ring back then.

    But today, I don't know where it is.

    I hope that puts the expenditure into perspective.

    (By the way, I popped for rings for both my daughters, regardless of how stupid I thought that was.)


    I got the not precious metal option... (none / 0) (#15)
    by kredwyn on Mon Oct 06, 2008 at 05:25:25 PM EST
    The gold ones were way past $500 back then.

    This one is 18 karat. Maybe I shouldn't (none / 0) (#21)
    by Teresa on Mon Oct 06, 2008 at 05:29:32 PM EST
    complain. It's a little dainty ring.

    dainty might be better... (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by kredwyn on Mon Oct 06, 2008 at 05:38:09 PM EST
    mine wasn't very attractive...I wound up finding out that I was allergic to it...and I don't know where it is anymore.

    a little pent up angst here? (none / 0) (#40)
    by white n az on Mon Oct 06, 2008 at 06:43:09 PM EST
    poor kids don't buy a $500 ring. No big deal.

    as for cars...they're just cars. The trick I learned with teenagers is to get a beater car and insure them as principal driver, no collision and that keeps the rates down and rarely let them drive your car (if you can get away with it). Obviously too late for your car.


    It was my older car to be honest. I (none / 0) (#44)
    by Teresa on Mon Oct 06, 2008 at 06:54:58 PM EST
    bought it brand new and it's a special edition little Integra. It's a 1995 but only had 63,000 miles on it. I loved that car. I swore I'd never give it up but my husband bought me a new car so I felt guilty if I didn't let her have it.

    We started to drop collision last month but the value of that car is still pretty high so we kept it. She has a little part time job so we're making her pay the increase in the insurance for her careless wreck. (She was where she wasn't supposed to be with a boy in the car after school.)


    5 new swing state polls (none / 0) (#7)
    by magster on Mon Oct 06, 2008 at 05:11:42 PM EST
    CO, MO and FL look especially good.

    Behind the scenes ground game (none / 0) (#9)
    by CoralGables on Mon Oct 06, 2008 at 05:13:08 PM EST
    in what was once a small pale blue lake surrounded by an ocean of red counties, Alachua County, Florida (home of the Gators) released some voter registration numbers this morning.

    In the last three months County election records show a little over 11,000 people have registered to vote.

    Democrats - 6,151 54.7%
    No Party    - 2,223
    Republican - 2,084 18.5%
    Other        -   779

    Those are the type numbers that will make Florida blue this year.

    How does that look in context? (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by Cream City on Mon Oct 06, 2008 at 05:23:42 PM EST
    Interesting report in my local paper this morning of more than 300,000 new voter registrations in my state, but half are not really new voters -- they're new names (on marriage) and new addresses.  And 150,000 turns out to be not that much out of the norm and more than accounted for by the increase in population.

    But my state already was one of the highest-voting states in the country.  Still, media reports without context are signs of just press releases with a little rewriting.  They used to walk down the hall to "the morgue" aka the newspaper library and look up the context.  Now, it's a click away on their computers.  But that's too much work, I guess, to actually inform us.


    Funny, how your state's AG (5.00 / 0) (#27)
    by scribe on Mon Oct 06, 2008 at 05:35:30 PM EST
    went out and promised the Republican Convention he was going to go out and root out voter fraud.  Before he started his suit seeking to disenfranchise Democrats.

    I don't expect anyone to rise to his defense....


    Not funny at all. First you've seen of it? (none / 0) (#35)
    by Cream City on Mon Oct 06, 2008 at 06:09:36 PM EST
    TChris has posted on it, I've commented on it, for weeks now.

    As I've written here, it's a reason why I have a particular animus toward ACORN, with an indictment already here and more on the way, because its idiocy is fueling the GOP fervor for voter ID, for abolishing our same-day registration, etc.  They've come darn close to getting all that, too, with the idiotic Dem cases in 2004 -- son of a Congressman slashing GOP tires, a Democratic candidate voting twice, and more.  Those Dems deserved to be disenfranchised.

    But thousands do not deserve it and will be here, because of those antics and ACORN antics -- and especially because our Dem gov so caved to the GOP calls to reduce the size of state government that the gov outsourced our computer work.  And the result is that he didn't comply with the federal law regarding registration rolls in time.

    And that's what opened the door for this AG -- as was clearly going to happen, with his GOP's history on this and it out to get whatever they could of the idiocies and incompetence of the Dems.  Really, look up the full story.  Some of our Dems can make Congress look competent.

    Anyway -- the judge's rulings on motions on this come down on Oct. 23, and then it will be appealed, and we hope it won't make a mess of the polls next month.  But that would be a better bet if our Dems also hadn't so blown it that we now have neocons in control of our state high court.


    Cx (none / 0) (#36)
    by Cream City on Mon Oct 06, 2008 at 06:12:28 PM EST
    to second graf: thousands do not deserve it and will be disenfranchised here . . . while the state Dems continue to give no hope of getting their act together.  If it wasn't so sad, it would be entertaining to see what stupidity some Dem pol or Dem pol's kid is going to do this time.

    Also cx re Congressman's kid -- as it was my Congresswoman's kid who slashed tires at a GOP headquarters.  And, of course, got caught.  Jeesh.


    Hey, I live (none / 0) (#61)
    by Lena on Mon Oct 06, 2008 at 08:39:09 PM EST
    in Alachua County!

    And we're pretty Democratic - a patch of blue in a sea of red. We voted for Gore in 2000 and Kerry in 2004.

    So the statistic isn't really TOO surprising...


    But.. (none / 0) (#68)
    by CoralGables on Mon Oct 06, 2008 at 09:16:26 PM EST
    nearly three times as many Dems registering as Republicans and more "No Party" than Republicans. That just brings a smile to my face when No Party beats out the GOP.

    Joe Torre for President! (none / 0) (#11)
    by steviez314 on Mon Oct 06, 2008 at 05:19:23 PM EST

    Counting chickens... (none / 0) (#13)
    by kredwyn on Mon Oct 06, 2008 at 05:24:00 PM EST
    My advice? Don't count them yet...seriously.

    2004...we were certain of a Dem upset.
    2000...Gore had it in the bag.

    Well... (none / 0) (#22)
    by Thanin on Mon Oct 06, 2008 at 05:31:03 PM EST
    This very day 4 years ago, according to electoral vote predictor, bush had 285 electoral and Kerry had 232.  There was never a chance.  

    Today Obama has 329 and mccain has 194.  The roles are definitely reversed, so while Im cautiously optimistic, the optimism is based off of reality this time and not wishful thinking.


    good luck with that... (none / 0) (#30)
    by kredwyn on Mon Oct 06, 2008 at 05:39:54 PM EST
    I don't trust that the polls are anything more than a momentary snapshot. It could turn on a dime.

    There seems to be historical... (none / 0) (#32)
    by Thanin on Mon Oct 06, 2008 at 05:44:14 PM EST
    precedent showing how the last month of the election the leaners vote for their leanings.  In 2000 and 2004 bush was leading in both these, with those that flipped equating around 2% or under, both going for the perceived winner.  

    Pollster did a thorough post on it.


    Perhaps... (none / 0) (#33)
    by kredwyn on Mon Oct 06, 2008 at 05:53:53 PM EST
    but polls, even with a "historical trend of polling data,"...is still a guess of what might happen next month.

    Youre right... (none / 0) (#34)
    by Thanin on Mon Oct 06, 2008 at 06:02:02 PM EST
    its guess work, but given that elections tend to play out in similar ways, I dont think its a stretch to be cautiously optimistic.

    for you maybe... (none / 0) (#37)
    by kredwyn on Mon Oct 06, 2008 at 06:19:15 PM EST
    but there are more than a few happy dances going on that I think...are perhaps a bit premature.

    And then Bush's drunk driving history (none / 0) (#49)
    by Cream City on Mon Oct 06, 2008 at 07:28:58 PM EST
    came out -- four or five days before the election, as I recall (and I recall it fairly well, as he was in my town then, when it came out in the media).  It was supposed to lose him the election, but who knew voters would be thinking about with whom they wanted to have a beer . . . as we were informed was the sort of thing that won it.  Have voters grown up in eight years?

    Tampa Bay 5, Chicago (none / 0) (#31)
    by oculus on Mon Oct 06, 2008 at 05:43:25 PM EST
    White Sox 1,  Bottom of the 5th.  1 out, nobody on.

    "Those who counsel troubled borrowers have a different view. Pam Canada, executive director of Sacramento's NeighborWorks HomeOwnership Center, fears Friday's rescue might now make banks less likely to help borrowers.

    If lenders can, "in one fell swoop, get rid of a couple hundred deals rather than negotiating each one, I'm afraid that could make it easier for them, again leaving the homeowner with no rescue," she said."  more

    Heckuva job Bushies!