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Sunday Evening Open Thread

By Jeralyn, Section Blog Related
Posted on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 07:04:55 PM EST
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If you've had your fill of politics this weekend, here's something heartwarming and completely different to read.

In the beginning, there was a boy, a girl and an apple. He was a teenager in a concentration camp in Nazi-controlled Germany. She was a bit younger, living free in the village, her family posing as Christians. Their eyes met through a barbed-wire fence and she wondered what she could do for this handsome young man.

She was carrying apples, and decided to throw one over the fence. He caught it and ran away toward the barracks. And so it began.

Herman and Roma Rosenblat celebrated their 50th wedding anniversary this summer.

This is an open thread, all topics welcome.

< Sentencing Commission Considering Prison Alternatives for Drug Offenders | John McCain's Vision >

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    Sunday Evening Open Thread | 53 comments (53 topical)

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    The holocaust (5.00 / 5) (#17)
    by gioncarlo on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 09:28:03 PM EST
    Recently, our family had to evacuate for one of the hurricanes striking the gulf coast. Evacuation is extremely stressful and requires a massive amount of planning and execution. Everyone was stressing out except for my grandmother-in-law. She said "The holocaust was worse." Perspective is everything.

    you can put up with a lot (none / 0) (#25)
    by coigue on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 10:25:35 PM EST
    when using the holocause as a standard for a very bad time.

    [ Parent ]
    And I thought you told a beautiful story (5.00 / 2) (#28)
    by koshembos on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 11:23:05 PM EST
    It turns out that the commenters just ignore it. My comment will have to wait.

    Re: GOP Family Values (3.00 / 4) (#4)
    by grandmaj on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 07:56:30 PM EST
    MileHigh Hawkeye:  Yes it seems the children are just props in her single minded ambition to reach her goals.  How sad for them.

    But, how could anyone, even a (5.00 / 2) (#5)
    by oculus on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 07:59:13 PM EST
    hockey fan in Phillie, boo Piper?  

    [ Parent ]
    apparently so. (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by coigue on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 10:22:37 PM EST
    Maybe they were booing her use of her daughter as a prop and a sheild.

    [ Parent ]
    Nobody booed the kid.... (none / 0) (#50)
    by kdog on Mon Oct 13, 2008 at 12:35:58 PM EST
    they were booing Palin, and Palin chose to have her kid subjected to it.  It's all on her.

    Not that being booed is all so terrible...it can build character.

    [ Parent ]

    I see you've been troll rated... (none / 0) (#40)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Mon Oct 13, 2008 at 10:54:51 AM EST
    ...by our resident Palin apologists.  Guess that means you have hit the nail on the head.  

    It is both sad for the children and shameful on Palin's part that they are being used as props for her to hide behind.

    [ Parent ]

    It is kind of sad the people (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by oculus on Mon Oct 13, 2008 at 11:17:42 AM EST
    booing Sarah Palin at the hockey game couldn't find some other way to express their dislike of her, in light of the fact her 7 year-old daughter was with her mom.  No matter what Palin's motive was for bringing the child with her.  

    [ Parent ]
    Philly Fans (5.00 / 1) (#43)
    by CoralGables on Mon Oct 13, 2008 at 11:38:09 AM EST
    Have booed Santa Claus in the past. Why on earth do you think they wouldn't boo a vice presidential candidate.

    If Palin thought Piper would diminish the boo, then Palin doesn't know the electorate she was trying to woo.

    [ Parent ]

    Well, in that case, . . . (5.00 / 1) (#45)
    by oculus on Mon Oct 13, 2008 at 11:40:35 AM EST
    Hope someone explains that to Piper Palin.

    [ Parent ]
    Should they have thrown rotten fruit... (none / 0) (#42)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Mon Oct 13, 2008 at 11:32:25 AM EST
    ...and batteries at her instead?  

    She knew AHEAD of time that it wasn't going to be pretty and she chose to subject the children to it anyway.  

    It is not the fans fault that she couldn't handle getting booed without using the kids to try and deflect their feeling about her.  

    [ Parent ]

    In the best of all possible (5.00 / 1) (#44)
    by oculus on Mon Oct 13, 2008 at 11:39:39 AM EST
    worlds, the fans who dislike Palin would bit their tongues, choosing, instead, to vent via blogs.

    [ Parent ]
    So, you're saying... (none / 0) (#46)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Mon Oct 13, 2008 at 11:48:54 AM EST
    ...it is all the fans fault and none of Palin's.  An interesting take, for sure.  How dare these people express their dislike of poor Sarah in a non-violent, socially accepted manner!  The nerve.

    Of course, there is also the beauty of the world's greatest hockey Mom getting booed by actual hockey fans.  Who paid to watch hockey, not be subjected to a campaign event, BTW.

    [ Parent ]

    And for the record... (none / 0) (#47)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Mon Oct 13, 2008 at 11:55:00 AM EST
    ...the person that really didn't deserve to hear the boo's was the woman who actually won a "Best Hockey Mom" contest.

    Her time to shine and be appreciated was stolen and sullied by Palin's stunt.    

    [ Parent ]

    I guess baseball fans are (none / 0) (#48)
    by oculus on Mon Oct 13, 2008 at 11:55:31 AM EST
    just more polite by nature, although, as I recall, George W. Bush was booed when he through out the first pitch in DC on openin day this year.  

    [ Parent ]
    I would consider (5.00 / 1) (#49)
    by CoralGables on Mon Oct 13, 2008 at 12:03:35 PM EST
    just booing of George Bush by any crowd anywhere to be in restrained good taste.

    As for baseball fans, send Palin out to Citizens Bank Park next Friday night and I think you will find the same reaction from Philly baseball fans.

    [ Parent ]

    Send her to any game in NY... (none / 0) (#51)
    by kdog on Mon Oct 13, 2008 at 12:38:19 PM EST
    and we'll be full of Bronx cheers too!

    Not that we are as surly as Philly fans, they definitely take the cake. Go Dodgers!

    [ Parent ]

    Nope (none / 0) (#52)
    by lilburro on Mon Oct 13, 2008 at 12:52:48 PM EST
    On August 10, 1999, in Drew's first appearance at Veterans Stadium in Philadelphia, he was booed loudly, and even had "D" batteries thrown at him by two fans.[1] Drew struggled to stay healthy, landing on the disabled list every season he played in St. Louis.

    The Illadelph my friend!

    [ Parent ]

    GOP family values (none / 0) (#1)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 07:21:03 PM EST
    '...A carpet was laid down and Palin, dressed in a beige trench, walked on to the ice joined by her daughters Willow and Piper. The GOP Vice-Presidential nominee said at an earlier fundraiser that she would stop some of the booing from the rowdy Philadelphia fans by putting her seven year old daughter, Piper in a Flyers jersey. She said, "How dare they boo Piper!"...'  
    --Fox
    Hey Jeralyn. Or anyone. (none / 0) (#2)
    by Dalton Hoffine on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 07:29:11 PM EST
    I have a question. My mother's boyfriend was put in a holding cell (he couldn't post bail) in Alabama because of a few failure to appear warrants. Kentucky said that they had a warrant on him as well for failure to pay child support, and they held him for thirty days before extraditing him. He had to go through the extradition forms twice because someone in Alabama lost the extradition form he signed the first time. By the time he got to KY, it turned out that he had no warrant for his arrest in Kentucky, and they even had his birthday and name wrong. The judge ordered a motion of discovery, and is going to dismiss it.

    I guess the question is... is that legal? At all?

    Segue: Jews in WWI (none / 0) (#3)
    by oculus on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 07:55:25 PM EST
    The Zookeeper's Wife
    , by Diane Ackerman, is a non-fiction account of how the couple who ran the zoo in Warsaw assisted Jews during the war.  

    WWII (none / 0) (#6)
    by oculus on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 07:59:53 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Funny link at MyDD: (none / 0) (#7)
    by ThatOneVoter on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 08:15:34 PM EST
    Tacitus said WHAT?!

    There's a list of quotes from unhappy Republicans, including famous online idiot Josh Trevino, who is not voting for McCain but writing in Jindal instead.

    Like many people I've been thinking (none / 0) (#9)
    by CaptainAmerica08 on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 08:43:23 PM EST
    of the GOP landscape in the event of an Obama victory. Who will run in 2012? I think the list right now would be: Palin, Romney, Gingrich, Huckabee, Jindal, and a dark horse, like Cantor or another Gov.

    I hope it's not Jindal, because he (none / 0) (#11)
    by ThatOneVoter on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 09:01:02 PM EST
    seems like a reasonable candidate.

    [ Parent ]
    It is utterly amazing that (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by cpa1 on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 10:39:25 PM EST
    after 20 of the last 28 years being dominated by people who orgasm over trickle down economics that the Democrats cannot put together an effort to kill it forever.  Why doesn't Obama scream out that Trickle Down Economics is a pyramid scheme that targets the middle and upper middle classes.  Why does he not scream out that the Republicans DESTROY good economies with their greed and lies.  What the hell does Jindal have that the other stupid Repuiblicans don't have?  They are all bad and it is time we expose their lies.

    I watch CNBC and all these CEO assholes who are almost all Republicans are saying that voting for Obama is bad because he will raise taxes.  Obama needs to say that raising taxes of the wealthy is the best thing we can do.  They are getting away scot-free without paying what they should be paying.  

    He needs to scream out that before Reagan a  person who earned $10 million of unearned income payed $7 million in taxes (leaving them a take home of $3 million - ignoring state taxes) and now after Little Bush they pay $1.5 million (on dividends and long term capital gains).  That means they have $5.5 million extra to spend every year.  Why should their take home pay have been doubled when everyone else's, with SS and Medicare and Medical Insurance Co-pays and drugs going over the counter, and real estate taxes rising like crazy and gas and fuel costs, is 30% less?

    We need to explain that being a liberal means we love business because business is supposed to raise all boats but Republicans always prevent that.  That is anti business.  

    One more thing, when the Republicans cry that small businesses whose sales are over $250,000 will suffer from Obama's tax increases, tell them (shove it down their lying faces) that it is not the sales that matter it is the INCOME.

    Also, if someone earns $275,000 ONLY that money over the $250,000 will be taxed higher, not the whole thing.

    [ Parent ]

    You may want to seek the (none / 0) (#39)
    by coast on Mon Oct 13, 2008 at 10:49:59 AM EST
    advice of an accountant on this one before throwing out these numbers.  For one, many who had unearned income in that range did not pay tax at all because they kept the money in tax shelters.  Therefore there was very little tax actually coming in from unearned income at that level.  The gov't cracked down on the shelters and reduced the tax.  This increased the overall revenues coming from unearned income at that level.

    [ Parent ]
    Coast, I am a cpa (none / 0) (#53)
    by cpa1 on Mon Oct 13, 2008 at 01:48:41 PM EST
    I am fully aware or the tax shelters and even the tax free bonds that so many invested in.  The tax shelters were abusive BUT at least they were used to build the economy with real property, houses, office bldgs, hospitals and schools.  

    Under the Trickle down pyramid scheme, all you had to do is be rich and you saved 55%.  Then you had all this money to deal with so what do you do?  You need Wall Street to create gambling toys that ultimately brought our economy down.

    The other tax shelter which also had great value was the difference between the ordinary income rates and long term capital gains.  Entrepreneurs were encouraged to invent and create, run their business, hire people and then once the business had greater value they were able to sell them and report the gain under much lower rates.  Back then you could exclude 60% of the gain if it was Long Term so your effect tax rate was 28%.

    The key is the difference in rates and if your business lost money you could write off the losses annually and the government paid for 70% of the loss.  This was all designed to encourage growth and it worked until Reagan came and destroyed growth and built pyramids so that his carpetbagger friends could rape the financial system.

    [ Parent ]

    My point (none / 0) (#54)
    by coast on Mon Oct 13, 2008 at 10:22:00 PM EST
    The point of my response to the post was to correct the posters misconception that individuals paid more in tax under higher tax rates than they do under lower tax rates.  Your post fails to refute this fact.  If you have statistics that support your position, please enlighten me.  To address your point, capital gains were not reduced to 28% from until 1978 when Congress passed Steiger Amendment.  President Carter at the time said it was a giveaway to the rich and would reduce federal revenues.  The reduction did exactly the opposite.  Capital gains taxes increase from $8 billion in 1977 to $11.7 billion in 1979.  To reinforce the point you could also look at the revenues prior to the doubling of the rate in 1969.  Prior to the increase capital gains revenues were $5.3 billion from capital gains taxes and fell to $3.2 billion in the year following the increase.  Increasing capital gains taxes is not effective because it is an elective tax for the most part.  People will avoid recognizing the tax by either not selling or waiting to offset the gains against losses.  IN addition, based on the more recent IRS statistics, more and more middle class taxpayers are recognizing capital gains tax not just the wealthy.

    As for your contention that the 70's tax shelters, while abusive, promoted real growth I unfortunately can only comment on based on information from my parents and research since I was a bit young at the time and really only cared about seeing Star Wars as many times as possible.  As much as I can tell the economy of the 70's can at best be described as stagnant and at worst declining.  Again, if you have information that refutes this please share.

    Good look the remaining two days.

    [ Parent ]

    Jindal does scare me a little. (none / 0) (#16)
    by CaptainAmerica08 on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 09:22:06 PM EST
    Glad to see I'm not the only one who recognizes his genuine appeal to the middle if not the left.

    [ Parent ]
    Jindal is an Exorcist? (none / 0) (#18)
    by WS on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 09:33:24 PM EST
    He's Catholic but its said that he's performed an exorcism.  Correct me if I'm wrong but only Catholic priests cleared by the Vatican are allowed to do exorcisms.  

    Jindal

    [ Parent ]

    Yes (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by coast on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 10:17:05 PM EST
    only a priest may perform an exorcism.  But concidering he was in college and with some of his buddies, I think this would fall under the "I smoked some, but didn't inhale".  In other words, what one does back in college with his or her friends should not be an issue in a presidental election.  We were all stupid back then.

    [ Parent ]
    He was very impressive this summer (none / 0) (#24)
    by coigue on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 10:23:21 PM EST
    during the hurricanes.

    [ Parent ]
    I guess McCain and Palin should stop (none / 0) (#10)
    by ThatOneVoter on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 08:44:50 PM EST
    inciting hatred, eh? Seems pretty simple to me.
    Did Palin ever comment on the death threat to Obama which was spoken at her rally?

    What are McCain/Palin doing... (none / 0) (#13)
    by callmecassandra on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 09:10:54 PM EST
    to incite hatred?

    Be specific please.

    Did Palin ever comment on the death threat to Obama which was spoken at her rally?

    When Obama/Biden are held responsible for the words and deeds of their supporters, then you can ask me about McCain/Palin.


    [ Parent ]

    callmecassandra (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by Jeralyn on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 09:21:56 PM EST
    is a chatterer and a troll. Please leave.

    [ Parent ]
    Your game is dangerous and (none / 0) (#14)
    by ThatOneVoter on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 09:15:37 PM EST
    irresponsible. Palin has a responsibility to quash talk that Obama is a terrorist, and she is even more obligated to loudly denounce death threats, in addition to turning over the case to the FBI.
    Instead, she foments the former and ignores the latter.


    [ Parent ]
    Feel Good Movies?? (none / 0) (#12)
    by samtaylor2 on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 09:02:50 PM EST
    So we just finished watching Freedom Writers, and it got me thinking there are very few feel good movies.  

    Akeelah the Bee (spelling??)- my recent favorite
    Freedom Writers
    ESL (English as A Second Language)

    Give me some more (or not).

    "Hoosiers" (none / 0) (#34)
    by shoephone on Mon Oct 13, 2008 at 01:08:10 AM EST
    is one my all-time favorites.

    [ Parent ]
    Good call.... (none / 0) (#38)
    by kdog on Mon Oct 13, 2008 at 08:10:08 AM EST
    one of those films that, if you happen to catch it flipping around, you get sucked in all over again.

    "In my book, you guys are winners!"  Gets me every time.

    Shawshank Redemption is a good one to lift the spirits too.  

    [ Parent ]

    Are people still watching Project Runaway? (none / 0) (#19)
    by lilburro on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 09:44:30 PM EST
    I am not...but I'm just wondering.  I was a little turned off by the hipsters on this one.  

    Go Chargers! Go Dodgers! (none / 0) (#20)
    by santarita on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 10:07:54 PM EST
    (never thought I'd say "Go Dodgers") - West Coast chauvinism, I guess.)

    Never thought I'd be pulling (none / 0) (#32)
    by oculus on Mon Oct 13, 2008 at 12:19:59 AM EST
    for the Dodgers either.  Ain't life strange?  Go Manny.

    [ Parent ]
    Thanks Jeralyn (none / 0) (#22)
    by coast on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 10:20:14 PM EST
    Between the election and the stock market I was craving some good news from anywhere.  This story at least brings a little light to an otherwise bleak week.  Good story.

    ABC News/Washington Post (none / 0) (#27)
    by andgarden on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 11:02:07 PM EST
    Obama by 10

    That would be (none / 0) (#30)
    by CoralGables on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 11:52:25 PM EST
    a very nice 6 point pickup from the last poll done by ABC/Wash Post. Nothing but good news coming down the line lately.

    [ Parent ]
    How nice! (none / 0) (#29)
    by Blowback on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 11:44:24 PM EST
    such a good lesson. wish i learned it sooner.

    McCain - Palin (none / 0) (#31)
    by WillieB on Mon Oct 13, 2008 at 12:07:16 AM EST
    Took our annual fall foliage cruise from Pittsburgh to Ohiopyle State Park in SW PA.

    Beautiful day, we were probably a week early for the maximum changing of the leaves. The Steelers had a bye week so everyone on the road.

    Once we got out of the city the McCain-Palin yard signs outnumbered the Obama-Biden signs at least 25 to 1. I was surprised to see this and I wonder if we are underestimating the appeal of the R ticket here in PA

    You aren't seeing yard signs (none / 0) (#33)
    by CoralGables on Mon Oct 13, 2008 at 12:43:59 AM EST
    because the Obama campaign is making few and passing out fewer. The theory on the new approach is that it's better to spend your money getting people registered to vote, and get them to vote, as opposed to spending money on a sign for someone already voting for you to stick in the ground.

    I'm sure people could debate it both ways, but thus far the gameplan has shown to be successful. Time will tell if it works till the final gun.

    [ Parent ]

    With all of Obama's money (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by Cream City on Mon Oct 13, 2008 at 01:32:10 AM EST
    that is, frankly, hard to believe.  And the Obama campaign has had people paying for admission to rallies and for buttons and for stickers, so why not have them pay for yard signs?  They would.

    [ Parent ]
    Krugman wins Nobel Prize for economics (none / 0) (#36)
    by robrecht on Mon Oct 13, 2008 at 06:20:50 AM EST


    Racist Moron (none / 0) (#37)
    by Roschelle on Mon Oct 13, 2008 at 06:49:12 AM EST
    Wearing racism on your sleeve...literally!!!

    Sunday Evening Open Thread | 53 comments (53 topical)

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