home

Wednesday Open Thread

By Big Tent Democrat, Section Blog Related
Posted on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 12:25:31 PM EST
Tags: (all tags)
Share This: Digg! StumbleUpon del.icio.us reddit reddit

Busy day. Hope J and TChris can come along soon. In any event, your turn.

This is an Open Thread.

< The National Polls - 10/1 | Will's Mendacious Defense Of Republicanism >

  • The Online Magazine with Liberal coverage of crime-related political and injustice news

  • Contribute To TalkLeft


    • Display: Sort:
    Wednesday Open Thread | 88 comments (88 topical)

    Readers Must Login or Create an Account to Comment

    Go Cubbies! (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by ruffian on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 01:05:53 PM EST
    Please god don't let it go 101 years.

    I'm rooting for ya.... (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by kdog on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 01:17:50 PM EST
    ever since the Mets sh*t the bed...again:(

    I'd like to see a Devil Rays vs Cubbies series.  If not that, anybody but the Phillies.

    Parent

    Hee hee. Go Phils! (none / 0) (#22)
    by liminal on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 01:25:47 PM EST
    Last week I put a stuffed Phillie Phanatic in the office of a poor, downtrodden Mets fan - who hanged my poor, oft-repaired Phanatic.  

    I'm happy to report that the Phanatic survived without further damage.

    Parent

    Even I gotta admit... (none / 0) (#32)
    by kdog on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 01:52:26 PM EST
    the Phanatic is a pretty cool mascot.

    But he's no Mr. Met!

    Parent

    Heh. (none / 0) (#41)
    by liminal on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 02:30:34 PM EST
    My local minor league baseball team has not one, but five freakin' mascots, one of which is a giant piece of coal-mining coal, which I think makes Axe technically a cannibal.

    Parent
    They've got.... (none / 0) (#51)
    by kdog on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 02:54:31 PM EST
    the whole earth, wind, water, and fire thing going there liminal.

    Parent
    And (none / 0) (#61)
    by liminal on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 03:29:18 PM EST
    Not to mention the all-important "guy with a giant baseball head" in Charlie, a revived mascot from a defunct minor league franchise.  See also, Mr. Met, Mr. Red, and Mr. Redlegs, and in turn begs the question as to how many giant baseball head guy mascots there are out there - and how many of them have cool curly moustaches.

    Parent
    Bernie Brewer (none / 0) (#63)
    by Cream City on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 03:48:00 PM EST
    is a big head with a cool curly mustache.  Unfortunately, Miller Park no longer has Bernie's old chalet with the slide that he would ride down for every home run.  However, it now can be seen at the ever-popular micro Lakefront Brewery.  (Best fish fry in town, and that's saying something in Milwaukee.  Plus the German oompah band music, live, comes free to polka down, dudes . . . although equally popular in the town where it was invented is the Chicken Dance).

    But better than Bernie are Milwaukee's beloved and marvelously multicultural Famous Racing Sausages.  Some with mustaches.:-)

    Parent

    The Washington Nats.... (none / 0) (#64)
    by kdog on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 03:54:44 PM EST
    totally ripped off your racing sausages Cream...they've got the racing dead presidents ...Washington, Lincoln, Jefferson, and Teddy R.

    Parent
    So, the Chicken Dance... (none / 0) (#65)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 04:00:59 PM EST
    ...was invented in Milwaukee?  Link please.  

    Here is mine...

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_Dance

    Parent

    Okay, then, as your link says (none / 0) (#81)
    by Cream City on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 04:42:52 PM EST
    make it the American version.  And as the link says, intro'd by a Wisconsinite -- but the wrong one.  See this (and many other sources similarly supporting our story, and we're sticking to it).

    I got to buy a piano from Bob Kames.  A great guy, much missed.  But the Chicken Dance lives on at every bowling-alley wedding reception and fish fry here!

    Parent

    Hard to get... (none / 0) (#82)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 04:47:12 PM EST
    anything about Kaczuszki (translates to Duckies) past a Pollack!  ;)

    Parent
    Also... (none / 0) (#86)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 05:59:21 PM EST
    ...I just came across this little article on Sarah's accent...

    http://www.slate.com/id/2201318/?GT1=38001

    "Others have wondered whether her accent hails from Idaho, where her parents are from. But dialect features tend to come from one's peers, not one's parents, and Palin spent her childhood in Alaska's Mat-Su Valley, which is where she got her distinctive manner of speaking. The next town over from Wasilla, Palmer, has a large settlement of Minnesotans--who were moved there by a government relief program in the 1930s--and features of the Minnesotan dialect are thus prominent in the Mat-Su Valley area. Hence the Fargo-like elements in Palin's speech, in particular the sound of her "O" vowel. (Despite its name, Fargo took place mostly in Brainerd, Minn.) However, even in the area, many people speak a more general Alaskan English, the sort one would find in nearby Anchorage. Palin's frequent dropping of the final G in -ing words and her pronunciation of terrorist with two syllables instead of three are characteristic of general Alaskan English (and Western English) rather than the specific Mat-Su Valley speech. "

    Parent

    Eh. I like the Pittsburgh Pirates' mascots (none / 0) (#73)
    by scribe on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 04:17:25 PM EST
    a wack-job parrot and four different flavors of pierogies.

    Parent
    Moustache! (none / 0) (#74)
    by liminal on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 04:19:31 PM EST
    There is a great brewpub/German restaurant in Newport, Kentucky right across the Ohio from the ballpark in Cincy, where you are also guaranteed German oompah music.  And it's an easy walk across the Purple People Mover to the ballpark.

    And wow - I think alot of folks ripped off the racing sausages.  I know I've seen them at an Altoona Curve game (another minor league team), and think I've seen them in Pittsburgh, as well.

    But I'm heartened to hear that there is another giant baseball head with a curly moustache.  I harbor a secret hope that curly moustaches will come back.  When I was a kid I knew one guy who had one - but none since, alas, and this despite all the interesting facial hair out there.

    Parent

    Phils 3, Brewers 1 (none / 0) (#84)
    by scribe on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 04:53:31 PM EST
    Big day for Utley.

    Parent
    Hey, CC (none / 0) (#85)
    by caseyOR on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 05:06:16 PM EST
    I just found out there is a place here in Portland that serves what they call Midwest comfort food, including fried cheese curds. I haven't had those since I left the midwest 30 years ago. I think I'll check it out this weekend.

    Parent
    Talk about curses (none / 0) (#24)
    by ruffian on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 01:27:16 PM EST
    thanks kdog - I know all too well how you feel.

    I like to think the Mets are being paid back for stomping on my tender hopes and dreams in 1969.

    There was a funny article about the old Cubs from that year, and their feelings about seeing Shea Stadium demolished.  No tears were shed, especially by Ron Santo, who famously had the black cat come out on the field while he was in the on deck circle at Shea, and the Cubs went on to nosedive to the Mets.

    A great book for all baseball fans is "The Cubs of '69". It really captures the horrors of that year for the Cubs, and the joys for the Mets. I laughed, I cried.

    I hated when the divisions were rearranged a few years back and we lost that Cubs-Mets rivalry. The Brewers?  Why am I supposed to care if I beat them?

    anyway, thank god it's October!

    Parent

    Definitely miss.... (none / 0) (#29)
    by kdog on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 01:43:56 PM EST
    the old NL East rivalries of my youth...when my favorite non-Met of all time, Ryne Sandberg, would come to town many times throughout the summer.  As a little league second basemen, I used to stick one of Topps cards in my sock for games....what a player.

    And how we all hated Whitey Herzog's great Cardinal teams.  Heck, even the Pirates were good back then for a few years.  And the Expos from north of the border.  Memories....

    Parent

    I thought I would get used to it and find (none / 0) (#67)
    by ruffian on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 04:04:32 PM EST
    new opponents I love to hate, but I still can't even name all the teams in the division. The ones from growing up are too deeply embedded in my poor brain. I go back to Lou Brock on the Cards (my Dad never forgave the Cubs for trading him) and all those great Mets pitchers - Seaver, Koosman, aaarrgh! My favorite non-cub as a kid was the great Roberto Clemente. Wow, he was fun to watch, even when he beat the Cubs. And Johnny Bench waved at me at Wrigley one time - of course I was screaming at him when he was trying to do an interview - he had to wave so I would shut up.  I really liked him.

    Love your story about Ryno. He really was wonderful - sure gave the Cubs a shot in the arm when they needed one.

    oh please please please Cubs.....

    Parent

    My sympathies to Cubs fans. (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by scribe on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 01:17:51 PM EST
    I was reading from the current edition of a wonderful periodical last night - Elysian Fields Quarterly - a collection and literary explanation of how the baseball gods are still avenging Fred Merkel and his treatment post the famous "bonehead" play in the game which, when replayed per league decision, resulted in the Cubs edging out the NY Giants for the 1908 NL pennant and, eventually, winning the Series that year.  The article is titled:  "Merkle Haunts Moises, or Why the Cubs Will Never Win it All".

    It would seem, from the article, that most of the people involved in oppressing Merkel wound up meeting deeply tragic ends, often with no small amount of irony.  And the Cubs have been paying for that 1908 Series win ever since.

    As Costas is quoted therein:  "Waiting for the Cubs to win the pennant is like leaving a porch light on for Jimmy Hoffa."

    I highly recommend EFQ to all fans of the game - it's one of those great, small journals of minutiae, literature and emotion, devoted to all things baseball.  Plus, the price of a year's subscription is quite reasonable.

    Parent

    After this Padres season, in which (none / 0) (#19)
    by oculus on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 01:21:34 PM EST
    they lost 99 games but won't get the first draft pick because they didn't lose more games than any other team, I like the idea of reading about baseball instead of watching my team repeatedly tank.

    Parent
    Tell someone who likes you (none / 0) (#21)
    by scribe on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 01:24:54 PM EST
    you want a sub to EFQ for Christmas, birthday, whatever....

    Really.

    Parent

    welcome to Mariners country (none / 0) (#31)
    by addy on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 01:52:13 PM EST
    I can sympathize.

    Parent
    Thanks - I'll look that up (none / 0) (#27)
    by ruffian on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 01:35:11 PM EST
    Poor Moises - he did not deserve to be cursed like that. I still have nightmares about that series.  I couldn't watch baseball at all for 2 years after that.  It gave me the shakes.

    Parent
    Do you have any aging relatives (none / 0) (#9)
    by oculus on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 01:11:08 PM EST
    to include in your prayers?  You know:  my great grandmother is 100 years old and is hanging on for a Cubbie WS win?

    Parent
    My mother and my uncle (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by caseyOR on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 01:28:38 PM EST
    Lifelong Cubs fans and desperate for a World Series win. Please let this be the year.

    Parent
    Sure do (none / 0) (#11)
    by ruffian on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 01:14:09 PM EST
    My Dad is 80 - lifelong fan.  Went to his first game at Wrigley in 1938. Can you imagine being 80 or 100 years old and never see your team win the championship?  I'm 50 and that is bad enough!

    Parent
    I think it will take longer than that (none / 0) (#12)
    by oculus on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 01:15:58 PM EST
    with the Padres!

    Parent
    Hope not - no one deserves that!!! (none / 0) (#14)
    by ruffian on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 01:17:20 PM EST


    Parent
    Think about Phillies fans. (none / 0) (#30)
    by scribe on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 01:45:12 PM EST
    They were one of the original NL teams - and it took them 100 years to win their first Series.  And it was only their third trip (1915, 1950, 1980).  Before then, they had been 1-8 in World Series games.

    And Mets, Devil Rays, Padres and other "losing" teams notwithstanding, the Phils still hold the mark for most losses (10,098), first to 10,000 losses, 4th worst historical winning percentage (.470, ahead of or tied with Tampa Bay .417, S.D. .462, Texas .468, Seattle .470, Colorado .470), and overall futility (Add up the cumulative records of the teams they're tied or ahead of in winning percentage, and you might equal the Phils' record).  There was a period between about 1918 and 1948 when in 25 of those 31 years, they finished 7th or 8th in the eight-team NL, their highest finish was 4th (1932).

    Parent

    Go Dodgers! (none / 0) (#20)
    by mmc9431 on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 01:24:22 PM EST
    The Cubs have made their owners a fortune over the years as the lovable losers. Winning may destroy their image!

    Parent
    I looked earlier today at the (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by oculus on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 02:00:23 PM EST
    match-ups and came to only one conclusion:  Beat LA.  

    Parent
    Always the Right Choice! n/t (none / 0) (#39)
    by santarita on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 02:25:38 PM EST


    Parent
    There's already talk here of a possible (none / 0) (#40)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 02:30:06 PM EST
    freeway series.

    Parent
    Actually, that would be (none / 0) (#52)
    by oculus on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 02:55:54 PM EST
    fun.  

    Parent
    They will be just as lovable as winners (none / 0) (#26)
    by ruffian on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 01:30:14 PM EST
    Trust me!!!

    But in good sportsmanship I wish the Dodgers luck too. If the Cubs weren't in it I would be rooting for them.

    Parent

    Speaking from experience... (none / 0) (#28)
    by CST on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 01:37:19 PM EST
    There is no down side to breaking a curse.

    If the sox don't make it this year, I'd definitely pull for the Cubs.  Still a little sour on the Dodgers though - Manny related.

    Parent

    Hillary's new HOLC! (5.00 / 4) (#37)
    by alexei on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 02:20:19 PM EST
    HOME (Homeowners Mortgage Enterprise), her call to jumpstart the housing market and not wait for the trickle down from this bail out and the calling for investment portfolios in from Wall Street and Banking to invest in American alternative energy, infrastructure repair and high speed rail!  Dodd praised Clinton on the floor.  You think that the Dems will follow through since Dodd not only praised her ideas but she was the highlighted speaker.

    Link to transcript (5.00 / 2) (#60)
    by nycstray on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 03:29:18 PM EST
    here

    Parent
    What kind of responses are you getting with calls (5.00 / 1) (#50)
    by jawbone on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 02:45:35 PM EST
    to your senators?

    Can't get yet to Menendez.

    Lautenberg's telephone guy seemed to be hinting that since there's protection for the tax payer, L's vote would be yes. I pushed the slow down the train wreck, give Paulson enough money to go thru Jan. Guy didn't seem to be listening.

    Called Hillary's NYC office (not my senator, but my Dem nominee choice and now she must become the Lioness of the Senate)--got kid sounding guy who really said nothing, plus the connection was terrible. Couldn't get in to her DC office yet.

    Couldn't reach either of Obama's DC or Chicago offices.

    I didn't call McCain--maybe I should.

    Mine are in the bag.... (none / 0) (#53)
    by kdog on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 02:57:32 PM EST
    Chuckie and Hil ain't voting against this thing, no way no how.

    And I rather spend my time here with all you fine folks than on the horn with those sob's.

    Parent

    I think she already spoke in favor of it (none / 0) (#54)
    by Teresa on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 02:58:56 PM EST
    on the floor.

    Parent
    Well, got voice mail at McCain's senate office-- (none / 0) (#55)
    by jawbone on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 02:59:09 PM EST
    left message. Clinton's DC number still busy.

    Getting "call did not go through" at lot for DC calls--overloading the national phone system?

    Parent

    Oh noes! (5.00 / 2) (#56)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 03:00:28 PM EST
    Focus on the Family is downsizing--due to competition from Squallmart of all things.

    http://tinyurl.com/3pag9q

    Now, if only we could get their tax exempt status reviewed for endorsing candidates from the pulpit...

    Poor Joe (5.00 / 1) (#70)
    by daring grace on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 04:10:01 PM EST
    Biden, that is.

    Did anyone else see this on the New Republic web site?

     "The Wisdom of Children (or, Biden's Summer in a     Nutshell)

    "This week I spoke to a relative's elementary school class about covering the presidential campaign. The kids brimmed with fascination about Sarah Palin. (Most had negative views derived from their parents; this is Brooklyn, after all): Would Sarah Palin mess up if she were president? Did "they" tell John McCain he had to pick Palin? Is it true Palin doesn't like polar bears? And so on.

    "Finally, one little girl raised her hand with a different question:

    "Has Obama picked who he's going to run with yet?"

    Heh.

    -- Michael Crowley "

    Paul Begala's 10 tips (none / 0) (#1)
    by oculus on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 12:29:40 PM EST
    for successful political debates:

    Begala

    Quite interesting, as he spells out his participation in debate preps in past campaigns.

    That was good (none / 0) (#10)
    by ruffian on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 01:11:55 PM EST
    Wish I had seen that before I watched 23 debates!  It would have made it more interesting to see if they were doing those things.

    And I would love to seee Begala be a GWB debate stand-in. I bet they had some funny moments with that.

    Parent

    Anybody familiar (none / 0) (#2)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 12:37:40 PM EST
    with the A11 football offense?

    I cannot understand the vehemence some seem to feel toward the system, as though it's an affront to the very game of football itself.

    I took a look at the linked blog (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by scribe on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 01:05:51 PM EST
    which, BTW, does a very nice job of laying out, in detail, the issues.

    My involvement in football is limited to wearing a Steelers hat/t-shirt and drinking a beer while watching TV, in other words, pure fandom.  I think the vehemence of the response is attributable to two things, or maybe three, depending on how you want to count:  

    1. the marketing campaign behind the A-11 offense.  It seems the coaches who "invented" it turned immediately to selling DVDs and instructional programs.  No doubt they are, like educators everywhere, underpaid.  But it just smells a little off to invent a whole new way of playing football one week, play a couple games with it, and then start selling instructional programs for $199.99 and up.

    1.  the apparent lack of depth in the development.  One of the commenters notes that something similar to this was included in (of all places) the book Coach Heisman (yes, that Heisman) wrote ("fundamentals of football", IIRC) back in the early 20s.  Either the coaches got their hands on an old copy (it may have been out of print) and then got a bright idea, or just got a bright idea.  But, it would seem it's a thin sprout without a deep root network.

    2.  the not-invented-here syndrome.  Self-explanatory.

    Moreover, the first thing which crossed my mind in reading the description was "Eleven Angry Men", a defense which Mike Tomlin of the Steelers instituted last year or the year before (some credit Belechick for creating it).  In it, all the defensive players milled about near scrimmage, to thwart the offense divining whether, whence and how many blitzes would come.  It worked really well for about three weeks, then the league studied the films, figured out how to beat it (most of the time) and now it is relegated to occasional use. Some think the Pats played it for a while in Super Bowl 42, but it remains the defensive equivalent of a flea-flicker - in the playbook, available, rarely used, a cool name, and more show than blow.

    Really.  I mean, the Dolphins beat - stomped - the Pats the other week playing a single-wing.  They won not because of the inherent superiority of the single-wing, but because the Pats didn't adapt to it.  The same fate will befall the A-11.  So long as the rules allow it, it will have a place.

    Parent

    Last night when I was reading about the A11 (5.00 / 1) (#42)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 02:33:16 PM EST
    I stumbled on some blog or another in which some of the posters reacted to the idea like it was almost sacrilegious. It seemed to offend their very souls.

    I wondered how they'd have felt about the forward pass, back in the day...

    Parent

    I can relate.... (5.00 / 1) (#46)
    by kdog on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 02:36:44 PM EST
    the DH offends my very baseball soul...not to start that one again:)

    Parent
    No arguments from me on the DH. (none / 0) (#49)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 02:44:46 PM EST


    Parent
    But with no DH (none / 0) (#83)
    by Manuel on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 04:47:43 PM EST
    We'd never have had The Double which is still the highlight of Mariner's baseball.

    Edgar for the Hall.

    Parent

    Helluva hitter..... (none / 0) (#88)
    by kdog on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:56:43 AM EST
    to be sure, but I'm sure Martinez was more than capable of playing a little first base and being a real baseball player:)

    Parent
    Do the inventers of football play (none / 0) (#8)
    by oculus on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 01:09:56 PM EST
    systems copyright their creations?  

    Parent
    I suspect not, since someone would send out (none / 0) (#18)
    by scribe on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 01:21:25 PM EST
    Jack Lambert to police their mark and that wouldn't do.

    Besides, any knucklehead can draw Xs and Os on a board - it's executing the play that makes the system work.

    Parent

    I don't know much (none / 0) (#4)
    by eric on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 12:59:57 PM EST
    but I did hear a program recently on NPR about it.  One of the opponents of the offense said that he didn't think that the A-11 should be used because it utilized "deception".  As if those play-action pass and fake field goal plays are all about honesty.  Jeez.

    Parent
    There's deception on every play, just about. (none / 0) (#43)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 02:34:36 PM EST
    It's the whole idea. Same goes for basketball, soccer, etc.

    Parent
    Interesting.... (none / 0) (#5)
    by kdog on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 01:04:27 PM EST
    not familar with it myself, aside from the variations occasionally seen on trickplays where the center is all alone and the lineman are spread.

    It is within most state's high school rules, so I'm all for it...but like most gimmick offenses, it seems pretty easy to stop once you get used it.  Right off the bat I would think the A11 could be nuetralized by heavy blitzing, unless your QB has a Marino-like release.  A nice wrinkle to throw in once in a blue maybe, but I don't think you could win consistently running the A11.

    I don't get the opposition either, if it is within the rules it is football.

    Parent

    I tell ya.... (none / 0) (#13)
    by kdog on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 01:16:31 PM EST
    even more interesting to me is Pulaski Academy, the team that never punts.  And they've had success with it.

    Parent
    Huh? You linked to a debt counter or something... (none / 0) (#34)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 02:05:02 PM EST


    Parent
    Oops... (none / 0) (#35)
    by kdog on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 02:08:46 PM EST
    cut and paste went whacky...here you are sir.

    Couldn't find anything for this season, can only assume they are still not punting.


    Parent

    Great link. (none / 0) (#36)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 02:17:52 PM EST
    I love the no punting ideas as well as the onsides kick every time idea.

    Parent
    I like it too.... (none / 0) (#44)
    by kdog on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 02:35:02 PM EST
    though as mainly a defensive guy on my rec team, I know all too well the value of a good punt and making the other team go the length of the field...I might scrap the no-punt game plan on a 4th and 10 from your own 10.  

    Parent
    We are in urgent need.... (none / 0) (#3)
    by kdog on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 12:40:00 PM EST
    of a new national debt ticker with more digits, whether or not the latest experiment in drunken sailor-ism passes or not.  Link

    Jesus, Mary, Joseph....and the sheep!

     

    Does anyone know what time the Senate (none / 0) (#17)
    by Teresa on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 01:19:19 PM EST
    vote is scheduled? I'm going to get a haircut at six and I don't want to miss it...though I know it will pass.

    According to Dodd's office (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by shoephone on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 01:27:12 PM EST
    4 pm EST

    Parent
    Vote not 'til sundown, I saw (none / 0) (#45)
    by Cream City on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 02:35:52 PM EST
    because it's Rosh Hashanah with proscriptions until then.  So maybe the time you saw, 4 p.m. EST, is the start of debate?  The days are getting shorter, sure, but don't tell me the sun sets that early in D.C.!  Of course, as sundowns vary, the standard time for it in at least reform Jewish tradition is 5 p.m., so I'm told.  So that would be after an hour of debate. . . .

    Parent
    Sunset is 6:38PM, EDT. (none / 0) (#48)
    by jawbone on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 02:41:44 PM EST


    Parent
    9PM according to CSPAN (none / 0) (#57)
    by nycstray on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 03:13:26 PM EST
    we actually have what sounds like an air raid horn go off in my 'hood to signal sunset. I think it's only on Fridays (and holidays?) though.

    Parent
    You mean there are five more hours of (none / 0) (#58)
    by Teresa on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 03:18:04 PM EST
    speeches?

    Parent
    They may break (5.00 / 1) (#59)
    by nycstray on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 03:28:05 PM EST
    for amendments or something to that effect. They keep showing "debate now, amendments later" and I'm not sure if that's the sched or the idea of doing more down the road . . .

    Parent
    Roubini (none / 0) (#38)
    by Faust on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 02:24:54 PM EST
    Has a new 40 minute interview available for those who are interested.

    Click on link and push the tiny play button.

    ugh, Bob Corker. Our new Senator from Tn. (none / 0) (#47)
    by Teresa on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 02:36:54 PM EST
    I'm sure this rich man loves this bill.

    For a really dyspeptic take on the Me$$, check out (none / 0) (#62)
    by jawbone on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 03:33:45 PM EST
    this piece at Counterpunch.

    ... I watched on TV while a newscaster quoted White House spokespeople as saying that Bush was upset, but not especially concerned, because he did not need Congressional approval to get his way. They said he could use special executive powers.
    ...
    Would Bush dare use the current economic crisis as a pretext to declare a national emergency and invoke his continuity powers?

    Yes, indeedy! In fact, he's been waiting for this moment for a long time, all along. And now, with McCain in a tailspin and about to crash like he did 41 years ago, and with the Afrrican-born Muslim and black anti-Christ Barack Obama about to ascend, with the help of dirty Democrat majorities in both houses in Congress, the moment for direct political action has never been riper.

    Hang onto your hats, kids, it's gonna be a wild ride ahead.

    Tin foil hat thinking? Let's hope so. Would he dare??

    Obama is on the floor now taking credit for (none / 0) (#66)
    by Teresa on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 04:04:02 PM EST
    all of the good changes that have been made. He better hope it works because he has taken ownership of it now.

    Chris Dodd, best sport ever (5.00 / 1) (#68)
    by ruffian on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 04:07:58 PM EST


    Parent
    Yup . . . rides in at the last minute (5.00 / 1) (#69)
    by nycstray on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 04:09:21 PM EST
    and tries to make it sound like they 'listened to him'. Iirc, many beat him to the punch as to what needed to be done. He was waiting for his advisers . . .

    I like they way he started off in his speech voice with all it's intonations, lol!~

    Great, credits Durbin but not Clinton on the mortgage reform?! Still can't call it the Clinton administration either and the dude was out stumping for him today.

    Parent

    That's what bothers me about him still. (5.00 / 1) (#71)
    by Teresa on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 04:14:46 PM EST
    I shouldn't have, but I followed the live blog on Daily Kos. Some of the posters are mad at Hillary for selling out. A few are excited that he mentioned HOLC (a New Deal FDR-like thing!!!) as if he is the first to mention it.

    Parent
    Hillary sold out but he didn't? (none / 0) (#76)
    by nycstray on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 04:23:07 PM EST


    Parent
    Yep. Old "Wall St Hillary". (none / 0) (#77)
    by Teresa on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 04:24:38 PM EST
    It makes sense in a Daily Kos sort of way. :)

    Parent
    I just read Hillary's transcript (none / 0) (#78)
    by Manuel on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 04:34:05 PM EST
    She nailed it.  

    But I think we all recognize that this is not the end but the beginning of what we must do. And I believe there are three big goals that we will have to address even after we pass the Rescue Package tonight here in the Senate and send it over to the House ...

    Talk about laying out an agenda.  This is exactly right.  Many on the left want to tackle all these things right now in this bill.  Reform will take some time and more than this one bill.

    It is our nation's loss that Hillary won't be our President.  However it is clear that a President Obama with Hillary and others driving the legislative agenda in the Senate are our best bet for getting the country working again.

    Parent

    Well that all depends on whether (5.00 / 1) (#80)
    by nycstray on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 04:39:47 PM EST
    Obama decides to look the Democratic way on occasion. I'm not too hopeful considering his past actions and his current advisers. And he does like those WS dollars . . .

    Parent
    I actually liked his speech (none / 0) (#72)
    by Manuel on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 04:16:15 PM EST
    But then again I am in favor of taking action.

    Obama explained the problem in clear terms and outlined the safeguards that Democrats added.  He could do better (so could they all) in explaining clearly how and why the plan will work (though I know that is quite hard).

    He sounded like the leader I hope we are getting but couldn't he have given this speech this weekend?

    Parent

    I just read in the other live blog that it's the (none / 0) (#75)
    by Teresa on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 04:20:18 PM EST
    same speech he gave this morning at a campaign stop.

    Parent
    We needed this last week. (5.00 / 2) (#79)
    by Manuel on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 04:35:32 PM EST
    I guess none of them expected the house bill to fail on Monday.

    Parent
    Regarding Obama and his 'Wall Street Dollars' (none / 0) (#87)
    by stevea66 on Wed Oct 01, 2008 at 10:05:20 PM EST
    I do think it's interesting that employees of Fannie/Freddy have given him around $140,000.  But, if you look at the numbers in a different way - taking just the higher-ups and Freddy/Fannie lobbyists, McCain's the one who received $140,000 while Obama only $14,000.  Sounds to me like the moneybags support McCain, while more typical employees support Obama.

    Wednesday Open Thread | 88 comments (88 topical)

    Readers Must Login or Create an Account to Comment