The Impulse To Defend Hillary: Uniting Democrats

By Big Tent Democrat, Section Elections 2008
Posted on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 09:38:09 AM EST
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Last Friday I wrote about the impulse to defend Hillary:

Kevin Drum explains it well:

As long as we're laying our cards on the table, this is one of the things that keeps me on Hillary's side regardless of anything to do with issues or tactics or rhetoric or anything else. I just hate the idea that the fever swamp has been able to turn a perfectly decent liberal woman into such an object of malign loathing. If she loses, then she loses. But by God, I don't want her to lose because millions of Schiffren's fellow travelers have carried on a 15-year vendetta of sick-minded smears and hatred. Enough's enough.

Be against Hillary. Criticize her stances, actions and political style. But by gawd, the libelous things that get said about her, not just by Republicans, but by Democrats and especially, by the Media (See Tweety) just set my teeth on edge.

It is terrible that she will be defeated because of this. I did not want her to win for many reasons. Most of them due to her cautious approach to politics. But that is not why she is going to lose. It will be due to just plain untruths. And that is not right.

It turns out a lot of voters in New Hampshire had the same impulse and that same impulse is sweeping the blogs. The latest comes from The Great Orange Satan himself as well as from Atrios. They say Hillary is divisive. Well, I tell you who has united Democrats - the Misogynist Media. We all hate the Media.

< Clueless In The Beltway : Dowd, Proud Member Of The Loser Media | A Kind Word For John Edwards >

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The Impulse To Defend Hillary: Uniting Democrats | 54 comments (54 topical)

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I agree with Atrios on this: (5.00 / 2) (#7)
by Maryb2004 on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 10:06:44 AM EST

I certainly know people in real life who a) don't want Clinton to win and b) are tempted to vote for her every time they're exposed to the way she's treated by the deeply broken monsters in our mainstream media.

I do too. I know a lot of those people.

Let me mix together two theories that were floating around last night to come up with a unified Hillary-wins theory.

Theory 1: People looked at the pre-polling and saw Obama blowing Clinton away and independents decided they weren't needed and went to McCain.

Theory 2: The media attention to Hillary's emotional moment drove women voter turnout and votes for her.

My theory: it's a combination. What if a lot of the undecided people fell into the category that Atrios described. They looked at the polls, saw Obama blowing her away and said, I'm going to vote for Hillary because Obama will still win. That way I get to show the media what I think of them but she's not going to win anyway.

so Mary (none / 0) (#9)
by Judith on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 10:09:10 AM EST

can you feel you can look at her more seriously as a candidate now? I mean, now that you clearly would not be alone where you live?


That is my theory too. (none / 0) (#10)
by Molly Bloom on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 10:13:55 AM EST

BTW now that HRC has been 'vindicated" or not going to be embarrassed, I feel less of an impulse to defend her this AM.

I am giving all three a fresh look this AM. I am not sure how I will vote on or about the 29th.


Molly (none / 0) (#12)
by Judith on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 10:16:38 AM EST

I do. I feel the need to keep that jack tight in a closed lid box.


correct me if I am wrong (none / 0) (#14)
by Molly Bloom on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 10:23:07 AM EST

You were always a HRC supporter. I was an Edwards supporter. I admit to the pull BTD, Atrios, Kevin Drum talk about. Tweety makes me livid when he talks about HRC.

The fact that I am willing to take a fresh look at all 3 is good for HRC and Obama, not so good for Edwards, but I have not ruled him out. I can make a good argument for all.

(BTW the use of HRC instead of Hillary is a compliment. Think FDR, JFK, RFK, etc. As LBJ observed, great presidents and great Democrats are known by their initials).


OBL? (5.00 / 1) (#26)
by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 11:54:08 AM EST

: Neither a Democrat or great president (none / 0) (#30)
by Molly Bloom on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 12:10:53 PM EST

Confused are you?

Nope (none / 0) (#28)
by Judith on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 12:08:29 PM EST

I was undecided when I got here a few days ago. The recent debate pushed me to Hillary.

I cant make a good argument for the other two above her.


: this reponse above (5.00 / 1) (#29)
by Judith on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 12:09:19 PM EST

labeled "nope" was to Molly.

I feel the same way (none / 0) (#15)
by Maryb2004 on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 10:25:12 AM EST

now that HRC has been 'vindicated" or not going to be embarrassed, I feel less of an impulse to defend her this AM.

I found myself in an odd position the last couple of days in real life and on other sites where I was the Hillary defender.


: Gosh (none / 0) (#16)
by Judith on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 10:30:07 AM EST

I would have loved to see that - cause that wasnt here the last few days, Mary. :-)

Congratulations Jeralyn... (5.00 / 1) (#27)
by Aaron on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 11:58:45 AM EST

... and all you Clinton supporters. As I said, it ain't over till it's over.

I guess they were right about the people of New Hampshire not making up their mind till the last moment.

And it looks like the stories about Hillary pulling out of the race coming from Drudge and elsewhere, were specifically designed to elicit sympathy, I guess it worked.

I think this is good for democracy and America, that whoever gains the nomination is going to have to fight to the end for it. That's the way it's supposed to be.

But don't worry, your girl is going down, it's just a matter of time. :-)

Obama 08, we have not yet begun to fight!

: oh please (5.00 / 1) (#32)
by Judith on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 12:18:16 PM EST

that is just too silly for words.
.

Tweety is a pig (5.00 / 1) (#38)
by Militarytracy on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 12:46:24 PM EST

And as a feminist.....look, I don't care for a Hillary nomination based on the issues but if this country is going to go "Iron My Shirts" on me I have no other choice as a woman but to make sure that woman sits in the White House. I can't afford for her not to and I'm very likely to be able to survive her Presidency just fine if I must go there. I cannot afford to allow people to take her down in the manner they were because it only errodes my future and my daughter's future and now my granddaughter's future to allow people to think or even entertain the notion that misogyny decided anything as important as a presidential nominee in this country. I will not and cannot abide by it ever!

You tell em!!!@ (5.00 / 1) (#40)
by Judith on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 12:50:04 PM EST

absolutely!


You surprise me here. Having (5.00 / 1) (#42)
by oculus on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 12:53:45 PM EST

read your comments for about a year on Talk Left, I would have predicted the most important issue to you in selecting the Dem. nominee would be: which candidate may I rely on to extricate the U.S. from Iraq the fastest (w/i reason).


: If I choose a candidate based on the issues (5.00 / 1) (#50)
by Militarytracy on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 02:48:03 PM EST

alone then I find Edwards the most attractive because of his decisive nature. I don't think any of them are going to leave us in Iraq but decisiveness seems to indicate to me that he would get us out the most quickly. So I have that on one side. Then I have my own life experience as a woman and choosing to be a single mom for the first seven years of my daughter's life and facing how difficult that is in our culture and how hard it is to get equal consideration where promotion and pay are concerned. And I remember what things were like for my mother and how men didn't necessarily have to be nice to you and a beating could have its justifications. Given those things, weighing those out and what is to be gained and what is to be lost I find that casting a Hillary vote may be in the best interest of my family considering the wholesale misogyny that jumped out of the shadows lately. Though I find it strange, my spouse has always had a tinge of the Hillary supporter to him and he is not upset in the least being a soldier and learning of her New Hampshire victory today. I'm sort of blown away but he seemed to be of the "well of course" group out there.

I dont know (none / 0) (#1)
by Judith on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 09:43:03 AM EST

if that is why they voted for her - I would like to think a few undecideds got swayed but that the primary impulse for most was driven by her actual fitness for the job.

Just as a side - slander is spoken...libel is written.

said and written (none / 0) (#2)
by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 09:49:26 AM EST

Yes I know. I was speaking normal person speak, not laywer speak.


: I am not a lawyer. (none / 0) (#4)
by Judith on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 10:03:26 AM EST

:-)
you are a great writer - just wanted to point out an error.

can someone let (none / 0) (#3)
by cpinva on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 09:59:19 AM EST

bob somerby know his work (the daily howler) hasn't been completely in vain?

perhaps judith, the unrelenting antagonism, displayed by the media, against sen. clinton, finally made some people stop and really look at her, to see if she's truly the anti-christ they portray? in so doing, they discovered, much to their surprise, that she's actually the best qualified for the job.

on the other hand, maybe a bunch of middle-aged women just got tired of the neanderthals (apologies to actual neanderthals) constantly beating up on her, and stuck their collective fingers in chris matthews' eye?

: now THAT (none / 0) (#6)
by Judith on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 10:04:51 AM EST

makes sense to me.

Listening to interviews on NPR & reading Salon (none / 0) (#5)
by jerry on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 10:04:02 AM EST

I heard and read lots of women and a few men say that tearing up showed she was passionate and made her more human and appealing.

I didn't hear a single person say they voted for her because of the misogynistic media.

I think the tearing up was along the lines of JFK's popularity rising AFTER the Bay of Pigs when he apparently became a bit more humble and human (or so goes the story I was told along time ago in some class or anohter.)

I would like to think that people vote for positive reasons for a candidate and not to spite some idiot journalists.

: me too (none / 0) (#8)
by Judith on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 10:07:51 AM EST

why give these rich people all the power? Do you think these people have concerns about jobs the economy etc? They can live off their fat until they die.
I would say - DESPITE the attempts of the media to sway voters away from Clinton, she won. In perhaps some cases their attempts actually pushed the undecideds to decide for her.

: when the difference (none / 0) (#19)
by Jlvngstn on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 11:10:39 AM EST

between the candidates is barely noticable, voting against a media that is trying to steer the election to the candidates they want is not a negative thing, in fact it is almost unamerican not to. To watch several talking heads refer to HRC tearing as a "breakdown" and the coverage including picking great smiley happy photos of Mitt, Hucreationabee, Obama and Edwards and the least flattering of her, I consider their actions a threat to democracy.
It should be on the issues and i have seen very little coverage on the issues.
Chris Matthews said something to this effect the other night: Look at Obama there, what an attractive family. I mean they are really attractive.
then he spoke of Hillary's "breakdown".

I have a new slogan for Obama: (none / 0) (#11)
by MarkL on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 10:14:25 AM EST

"Vote Obama: He's likable enough!"

Hill arious (none / 0) (#13)
by Judith on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 10:17:14 AM EST

I thought (none / 0) (#51)
by BlueLakeMichigan on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 04:05:32 PM EST

That was our slogan. J/k.

I think Hillary's "Ready For Change" is kind of silly seeing as how she's been quite an establishment of the status quo for years now.


she has (none / 0) (#52)
by Judith on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 04:13:29 PM EST

brought about change so she has a right to say it.

I dont find it silly. Sorry.


Dont be sorry (none / 0) (#53)
by BlueLakeMichigan on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 04:24:13 PM EST

I just think she's been for many of what I feel are wrong with this country's politics, from war with Iraq and war with Iran, to Social Security to poverty to trade to lobbyists to how political campaigns should be run and policy should be crafted, I think she's been, of all the candidates for the Democrats, the least for the sort of change America needs and so I find it silly. Don't be sorry for defending your candidate, though, that's not bad, that's good. That's democratic.


: well how nice of you (none / 0) (#54)
by Judith on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 04:46:55 PM EST

But I am not defending her. I am disputing your statement.
And blaming anybody but the GOP for the garbage going on is just wrong too.

Cant wait to see (none / 0) (#17)
by Judith on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 10:31:30 AM EST

all the "I was for Hillary all along - just secretly" posts. talk about dishonest. Blech,

Twenty is determined to help apparantly (none / 0) (#18)
by Molly Bloom on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 11:10:19 AM EST

HRC only became senator and a presidential candidate because "Bill messed around". Video at TPM.

I'm sure HRC's people are both infuriated and secretly happy- Tweety's becoming their best weapon.

Another factor (none / 0) (#20)
by Dadler on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 11:10:56 AM EST

New Hampshire is even less diverse than Iowa. As white as Iowa is, New Hampshire makes it look like the U.N.

I'll repeat: these primaries, in these wildly homogeneous states, are so unrepresentative of the nation as a whole, it boggles my mind that we take it seriously. We complain about the media bashing Hillary with slurs and sexist smears, and rightly so; but then we all go along with this broken, useless primary structure, and thus empower it even more. There should be maybe four primary days, four quarters of the political game. Balance each quarter demographically and regionally. Have each quarter maybe two week apart. The entire thing is done in two concentrated, meaningful months.

What we have now is rubbish.

: How do foresee accomplishing this? (none / 0) (#21)
by oculus on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 11:12:38 AM EST

: Good Points (none / 0) (#39)
by subee on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 12:47:13 PM EST

I agree. We have heard from very little of America's diversity so far...
The jury is still out!

Kos's plea to DKers to stop (none / 0) (#22)
by oculus on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 11:17:13 AM EST

bashing Hillary Clinton is pretty funny and will have absolutely no effect.

: that place (5.00 / 1) (#23)
by Judith on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 11:24:33 AM EST

turned skanky.

Today's theme: Hillary Clinton wins NH (none / 0) (#24)
by oculus on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 11:38:24 AM EST

primary due to adverse treatment by MSM.

Is it possible the notably independent minded primary voters of NH decided they would prefer her as President to Barack Obama or John Edwards?

P.S. Driving home last night (about 10:00 p.m. PST), I was listening to a.m. talk radio. A male caller ranted the problem is that if you aren't for Barack Obama people say you must be KKK.

Here's a good one: (none / 0) (#25)
by oculus on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 11:49:03 AM EST

PLUTONIUM PAGE AT DK ON MATTHEWS

but the bias goes on (none / 0) (#31)
by neilario on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 12:17:16 PM EST

So today - as a strong HRC suporter- i was waiting for the big positive HRC articles and [ because i am a realist] even just 10% of what BO got post iowa. AHH the dream was alive for me. BO's people are all over the teevee media and BLOGS [ including one I read religiously until i am just done with them now, argh...] are attributing the win to anything BUT HRC herself.. the 'gimmick' of her tears on and on. The center of attention is anything but HRC. ahhh. there is no parity at all.

and i had another weird dream. you know - HRC for prez and BO for VP ticket. It would be a landslide. And BO would get the experience as VP he needs and would be the heir aparent for the next round... helps everyone and the DEMS win big.

He is not my favorite, [ in fact I do not like or support him at all] BUT i would vote that ticket. God, my favorite headline in november wuld be landslide victory for the DEMS with 80% of the vote...
:-)
just a thought

hey (none / 0) (#33)
by Judith on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 12:20:05 PM EST

you cant expect the media to spin on a dime can ya? They have reams of anti HRC material...who quickly can they write something new and of the moment?

Have pity for the media - they just arent that quick.

:-)


Even assuming Obama desired the (none / 0) (#34)
by oculus on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 12:23:16 PM EST

VP slot if he isn't the nominee for Prez., I think his aside: You are likeable enough, Hillary preculdes him getting an offer.


i agree sme (none / 0) (#43)
by neilario on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 01:03:50 PM EST

Yea... BO is a really grand fella huh,.. and of course he even took that back the next day... I personally would not like that to happen. BUT i do think that no matter what HRC does think about the dem party. And I do think she would do whatever is best. If it was clear this would be whats best for the party she would. BO on the other hand- is not strongly attached to the dem brand and would not. But he is like 42/43... even in 8 years he would be very young. I think that team would sweep in huge ways....
So, yea, i think she would do it. I thnk she generally likes BO as a person but like many of us the next 4-8 years are critical... recession, climate change, war, health care.... crumbling infrastructure... I think she is concerned he will not fight hard enough for the Right things, but as his history shows he will make deals. And i think she is worried we will have another prez who is just not ready... do i think she would groom him? yup i do.


I do think (none / 0) (#44)
by subee on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 01:17:09 PM EST

Hillary is ready for the job -- maybe at her peak of readiness right now!

As to democratic loyalties, remember Obama is a Chicago boy and knows who helped him get where he is... I really can't see him dropping the ball on the dems at this point. I think his willingness to question the party line is a positive and welcome addition to politics as usual.

As for making deals, Hillary is hardly less proficient than Obama in this area...


A Chicago boy and a Chicago woman: (none / 0) (#45)
by oculus on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 01:19:02 PM EST

would that ticket fly?


good question... (none / 0) (#46)
by subee on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 01:27:44 PM EST

I am still amazed BO won a senate seat in conservative Illinois... where folks don't seem to associate him with the city's reputation for big money/corrupt politics. And now his success in Iowa seems to echo this. On the other hand, the rural voters do seem to associate Hillary with corruption, but less for her Chicago origins than her image from the beltway.


Chicago Man (none / 0) (#47)
by Judith on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 01:30:51 PM EST

and Chicago woman - (with NY and Arkansas thrown in for spice)


Thank You (none / 0) (#48)
by subee on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 01:32:27 PM EST

(my mistake using familiar voice)


: The other day I was informed (none / 0) (#49)
by oculus on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 01:38:39 PM EST

by milehihawkeye that "same old folks" was Chicago-speak for same 'ole and not ageist.
Anyhow, today Obama says he is a politician from Chicago and he now intends to act like one. Stay tuned.

Hillary-Obama ticket (none / 0) (#37)
by subee on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 12:44:25 PM EST

is an intreguing idea. We're still too far out to judge whether he would go there, but to all those who point to his relative lack of experience, this would certainly address that -- and line up a great candidate for the future...

I am still undecided between Hillary and Obama, and I am thankful that Edwards and Richardson are in the discussion.

As far as I can tell the media is always fickle and pulls whichever way the money goes. It may be they are boosting Obama at the moment in an effort to pull in younger viewers for their marketing/advertising agendas. I have also wondered if they are just trying to set him up for a crash when we hit the closed primaries... or maybe a deliberate effort to recast Hillary as the comeback kid /underdog!?


: Interesting. Kind of like the (none / 0) (#41)
by oculus on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 12:50:18 PM EST

analogy the TV prefers the longest World Series possible and between big market teams.

It's kind of nice (none / 0) (#35)
by coigue on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 12:28:25 PM EST

when positive emotions have an effect on an election, rather than negative emotions.

Whereas Hil is bringing out people on behalf of women's rights, don't forget the fear, homophobia and xenophobia that bring out the GOP.

: The GOP is brought out by just about everything (5.00 / 1) (#36)
by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 12:35:18 PM EST

ending in "ia" or "ism."