South Carolina: Democratic Post-Debate Thread

It's over. Who did the best? Who fumbled? Does it matter?

I thought Edwards and Hillary did the best. I thought it was one of Barack Obama's worst debate performances, from his launching attacks on Hillary (transcript here)to his stuttering and his hostile, dismissive yet arrogant demeanor. I could say a lot more, but I won't for now.

The winner tonight: John Edwards. I hope it gets him some votes, although even if it does, it won't be enough. I give the runners-up to Hillary because she was in greater control, speaks better and more knowledgeably and Obama seemed a little green behind the ears. His heart's in the right place but he's just not ready, in my opinion.

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    I thought edwards was on fire tonight (5.00 / 1) (#3)
    by Klio on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 09:14:47 PM EST
    and considering how little air time he got, he was really memorable.  Passionate, on point, moving.

    CNN (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by BDB on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 09:31:06 PM EST
    So far I haven't wanted to shoot myself listening to CNN's post-debate discussion.  They seem more balanced than Josh Marshall.  WTF?  And I'm not saying that because CNN is pro-Clinton, from what I can tell, they're not.   They seem to be saying good and bad things about every candidate (which I think is right, they all had stonger moments and weaker moments).

    Oh, well, I'm sure that CNN special on race and politics will remind me why I hate television news.

    I'm ashamed to admit this, but last (none / 0) (#19)
    by Teresa on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 09:35:39 PM EST
    night I was having trouble sleeping and starting flipping channels. I am a new subscriber to Direct TV and don't know the channels yet and I flipped over and saw Geraldo interviewing Bill O. (by phone). He was asking Bill's opinion of the MLK/Clinton blow up and he (Bill) said it was a total non-issue created by the media for ratings and controversy. First time I've ever agreed with him.

    Thank God (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by BDB on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 09:45:26 PM EST
    CNN is letting Mark Halperin speak.  I want to shoot myself or at least my television.  All is right with the world.

    Halperin graded Obama A- and the (none / 0) (#30)
    by Teresa on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 09:52:16 PM EST
    other two B+. I'm not sure I agree with him there.

    It Wasn't the Grades (5.00 / 4) (#32)
    by BDB on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 09:55:24 PM EST
    that got me.  It was when he said that Edwards and Obama are splitting the anti-Clinton vote.  That's just mindlessly spouting some "conventional wisdom" without any data to back it up.  I think polls and the voting we've had are unclear about who Edwards hurts and helps.  Of course, Halperin is incapable of any kind of 1) fact-based analysis, and 2) nuanced analysis.

    Oops. I missed your snark earlier. I (none / 0) (#35)
    by Teresa on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 09:58:25 PM EST
    thought you were approving of his remarks. I think Nevada showed who the majority of the non-blog Edwards supporters have as a second choice. At this point anyway.

    I have decided (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by athyrio on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 09:35:03 PM EST
    to not respond to Josh's email query about the debate as I dont feel like getting into a debate with him....but he needs to remember that I am an elderly lady that loves the Clintons and that we are also the ones that tend to give a tiny contribution from time to time, so if he wants us to dry up and go away he is going about it very correctly as I have gone there for the last time...:-)

    You can just stay here with us athyrio... (none / 0) (#21)
    by Teresa on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 09:38:19 PM EST
    nice and smart people here. Josh will be back to his old self when the primary is over. I feel the same way about DailyKos and I doubt I'll ever feel the same about it again. Jeralyn deletes the nasty stuff here and it makes for better conversation.

    Thanks (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by athyrio on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 09:40:50 PM EST
    Teresa....I sure will....

    the poll at DKOS (5.00 / 2) (#28)
    by athyrio on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 09:50:55 PM EST
    isnt a poll it is a farce.....I wonder if these bloggers have thought about if Hillary gets the nomination....Will they switch to liking her?? or will they become republicans....

    99% will vote for Hillary (none / 0) (#34)
    by magster on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 09:57:29 PM EST
    99% of the long-time posters. I don't think (none / 0) (#38)
    by Teresa on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 09:59:43 PM EST
    all of the new ones will. I think actually they won't vote at all if Obama loses the nomination.

    My impression is that (5.00 / 1) (#65)
    by CanyonWren on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 10:50:43 PM EST
    when the nominee is set, all will rally around him/her at dKos and all the Dem blogs, really.

    99% of those who do not post (5.00 / 2) (#67)
    by felizarte on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 10:59:41 PM EST
    in blogs because of the fierceness sometimes of responders in other blogs.  I am so glad this blog exists because at least discussions are more or less civil.

    Early on during the campaign, I was resentful of Obama's trying to pit the young and older generations against each other.  I also notice that most of the well known bloggers (and I think we all know most of them) seem to be young and ten to be passionately for Obama.  I don't mind the passion; I think people should be passionately about what they believe in.  But I can't help wondering if the inclination towards Obama grows out of a feeling of being "hip, cool, today, etc. etc."  

    It seems to me that really intelligent people would realize that societies are always composed of the young, young adults, middle-aged and seniors; as well as rich and poor, men and women.  Society must take these groups into consideration if it means to survive.


    thanks for your comment (5.00 / 1) (#69)
    by Jeralyn on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 11:01:57 PM EST
    We do try to keep the comments civil here. Hope you will stop back again.

    Nice choice. (none / 0) (#73)
    by DA in LA on Tue Jan 22, 2008 at 12:37:03 AM EST
    Wake up.  Just because some of us don't like Hillary doesn't make us Republicans.

    Many of us will vote Green.  Or not vote.  Doesn't mean we'll switch to the dark side.


    Obama train of thought (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by Stellaaa on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 09:51:44 PM EST
    He seems to start out strong, then he meanders and loses focus.  It's hard to stay tuned to him.  

    even harder to transcribe him (5.00 / 2) (#37)
    by Jeralyn on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 09:58:34 PM EST
    which is what live blogging is all about. I'm trying to type what they are saying exactly, kind of like a court reporter (which I'm not but I am an unusually fast typist) and I can't do it. Hillary and Edwards are a breeze. I noticed the same thing during the Libby trial with Libby's lead lawyer who I previously had a high regard for. It's a speech thing, not a content thing, but I think it will cost Obama votes unless he gets some public speaking lessons.

    Bill Clinton (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by andgarden on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 10:03:57 PM EST
    Is the most memorable speaker. He gives you details you can remember a week or a month later.

    And I thought I was the only one who felt that way (5.00 / 2) (#53)
    by felizarte on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 10:21:31 PM EST
    about the way Obama responds.  He digresses, meanders, stutters and in the end I can't remember exactly what he said.  I wonder if he ever argued a case in court.  I often wondered too, why he is getting such positive press.  I am beginning to think that Republicans have great influence in the mainstream media and this is part of their overall strategy--get the democrats to nominate the easiest candidate for them to swiftboat/defeat.  You're right, Jeralyn, Obama is better at giving speeches; but not in debates.   Edwards unfortunately will have his $400 haircut thrown at him at every turn should he be the nominee.

    With Hillary Clinton, what else can they come up with?


    what will the repubs throw at hillary? (none / 0) (#56)
    by hellothere on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 10:28:59 PM EST
    i would guess everything including the kitchen sink. she is a tough lady for sure and will have to be in order to deal with them.

    obama in my opinion needs more fine tuning. i don't think it will happen, but if hillary gets the nomination then obama as veep would be a real win/win.


    Run the clintons against mccain (none / 0) (#57)
    by Rojas on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 10:30:20 PM EST
    on national security.

    Interesting (5.00 / 1) (#68)
    by jen on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 11:01:24 PM EST
    I also thought it was just me, but several times when he'd be going on and on, he sort of lost me. The stammering is very distracting, too.

    Edwards was very strong tonight (5.00 / 2) (#36)
    by OrangeFur on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 09:58:31 PM EST
    Given the fireworks between Clinton and Obama, I think Edwards was going to win by default. But he did more than that--he had quite a few strong moments and made a good case for himself. He also played the role of honest broker well--taking on Clinton over lobbyists and Obama over health care, present votes, and credit card rates.

    I was so turned off by the spat between Clinton and Obama that I had trouble feeling anything good about either of them, despite supporting Clinton generally. The second hour really helped me feel proud of all three of them again.

    If I had to think about the rest of the debate, I'd say that Clinton did very well when talking about health care and her economic plan. Those are her best issues, and she did what she always does.

    But I suspect that the main takeaway from the debate will be the fight between Obama and Clinton in the first hour.

    I agree, Edwards was the clear winner (none / 0) (#63)
    by CanyonWren on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 10:47:07 PM EST
    It was a total turnaround from his Nevada performance, IMHO.  But today was spectacular!  He got rid of his endless stump speech and replaced it with a very engaging and informed conversational style.  He seemed very open, clear, and intelligent without talking down to his audience, which both Clinton and Obama did.  

    I personally loved it when he laughed at Clinton's fib that Edwards took PAC money, it was just so untrue and a grappling move to place him in the same ballcourt as the other two.  

    I thought Clinton did okay tonight, but nothing spectacular, and Obama did the worst he's done so far, as he was constantly on the defensive and didn't respond well to challenges. Edwards' performance was brilliant.


    Josh Marshall Had Some Interesting Last Minute (5.00 / 3) (#48)
    by MO Blue on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 10:15:57 PM EST
    comments after the debate after being pretty negative about Hillary  while the debate was going on.

    One observation stands out to me from this debate. Hillary can be relentless and like a sledgehammer delivering tendentious but probably effective attacks. But whatever you think of those attacks, Obama isn't very good at defending himself. And that's hard for me to ignore when thinking of him as a general election candidate.

    In most of these cases -- such as the Reagan issue -- I think Obama's remarks have been unobjectionable but ambiguous and certainly susceptible to both misunderstanding and intentional misrepresentation. And if you're going to talk like that -- nuance, as we used to say -- be able to defend it when people play with your words. And I don't see it. TPM

    BTW Josh was not a fan of the rough and tumble style of the debate.

    Maybe my (5.00 / 2) (#52)
    by athyrio on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 10:20:32 PM EST
    email to him did some good after all

    Tonight he called Hillary's comment (5.00 / 1) (#66)
    by ding7777 on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 10:52:52 PM EST
    crap and garbage.

    Just when I'm seeing Hillary's side of things, she comes back with crap like this 'present' stuff. Anybody who's looked into this knows the whole 'present' thing is garbage.

    To his credit, he did walk it back a little, after someone emailed him on it


    I have (5.00 / 2) (#54)
    by athyrio on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 10:24:13 PM EST
    contributed to both Edwards and Hillary too....my first choice was and is Edwards but I will now start to vote for Hillary as she is my 2nd choice and I want my vote to count....many many older ladies I have spoken with have it in that order....Edwards, Hillary, and Obama is way down on the list...he isnt a true democrat to me.....Oh well....Hope this doesnt drag on and do harm to our party.....

    ditto (none / 0) (#72)
    by Stellaaa on Tue Jan 22, 2008 at 12:09:02 AM EST
    I feel the same way.  Interesting today at dinner my husband read to me a German article about the election, the Nevada caucus in particular..  The Spiegel reporter emphasized his observation about us older women, workers and people who make less than 50,000.  He called us the most important sector of America Society and how we were not "ignited" by the Obama idealism.  It was actually a fascinating observation.   We laughed cause he saw my transformation from Edwards to being a Hillary supporter.  I will continue contributing to both.  Cause I want Edwards voice to stay in the campaign.  

    Hillary and John both helped each other and hurt (5.00 / 3) (#64)
    by sammiemorris on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 10:47:14 PM EST
    each other. John will probably increase his share of the white vote as a result of this performance in South Carolina, which will hurt Hillary. On the other hand, John took Obama to school on the present vote issue, and that will help Hillary nationally. In fact, John might have saved Hillary  there because she had been unfairly booed.

    Even though I support Hillary, I thought John did fine tonight and I agree with the poster about the trial lawyer vs. the law professor argument. John took Obama to school and that alone piqued my interest about an Edwards vs. McCain GE match up, because I would love to see him school McCain.

    For me, this debate just reinforced that I am more comfortable with Hillary and John, but Obama bothers me. He came across as cocky and holier than thou. He had some good moments and was genuinely funny, but I'm glad both Hillary and John called him out for being a hypocrite when it comes to exploring voting records.

    Experience is another word for... (5.00 / 1) (#70)
    by blogtopus on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 11:03:19 PM EST
    Hillary Supporter: "I think she's really good for our country, even if she has some baggage. She's strong and resilient and has the experience needed to bring us back from the dark ages. That said, I will vote for any of the three candidates when November comes around."

    Obama Supporter: "I think he's really good for our country. He's strong and resilient and has the hope and drive needed to lead this country back to greatness. That said, I hope that Hillary rots in Hell."

    Another word for Experience: Maturity.

    good debate (none / 0) (#1)
    by mindfulmission on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 09:10:19 PM EST
    I thought all had their very good moments.  

    Edwards probably won, imo.

    I Thought (none / 0) (#2)
    by BDB on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 09:10:45 PM EST
    All three of them did really well.  They each hit each other on what I think they wanted to.  I suspect supporters of each will see a win by their candidate and probably rightly so.  

    HRC won (none / 0) (#8)
    by sef on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 09:20:50 PM EST
    HRC won.  Let's forget she looked tough and made Obama seem not quite ready for primetime. Let's forget sheignored Edwards enough to make him seem irrelevant to the Obama / Clinton battle . Let's talk about the other candidates.

    Edwards did well enough for him to get money & stay in the race.  B/c this gives Edwards enough  to go foward & thereby splitting HRC's votes this helps play in to HRC's strategy of splitting the "anti-Hillary" vote.

    Obama did poorly enough for people to have second thoughts, but just good enough not to have the blowback bounce that HRC got after Edwards & BHO ganged up on him.  


    typo (none / 0) (#9)
    by sef on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 09:22:04 PM EST
    grrr, typo, that should be "her in NH" as the final sentence.

    its also important to note (none / 0) (#71)
    by sammiemorris on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 11:36:19 PM EST
    that OBAMA initiated quite a bit of the attacking.

    Suzanne Malveaux got the ball rolling with the $50 billion question, and Obama just took the bait and never let up.

    When he brought up Walmart, she brought up Rezko.

    She also made it seem like it was hard to debate him because he had a holier than thou approach. She struggled initially and got booed during the process, but ironically John Edwards of all people helped to drive her point home.


    put my son to bed (none / 0) (#4)
    by Klio on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 09:15:34 PM EST
    and missed what is is we're repeating right now.

    The "just getting warmed up" line was very good

    but why this repeat?

    Good TV (none / 0) (#6)
    by Teresa on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 09:17:28 PM EST
    Pro-Obama comment (none / 0) (#5)
    by magster on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 09:16:49 PM EST
    Obama did well in Republican bashing to indirectly disavow his Reagan comments.

    Obama also made a good point retort to Clinton at the end (although it wasn't forceful) about how beating McCain means not being McCain-lite.  

    Obama also made a Howard Dean argument about not ceding certain segments of our population to the GOP.

    But finished slowly by blaming the (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by Teresa on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 09:18:44 PM EST
    Democrats for not being bipartisan enough or at least not working with the Republicans.

    Is This For Real? (5.00 / 2) (#10)
    by MO Blue on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 09:24:04 PM EST
    I did not listen to the debate. Will read about it later. If true, does Obama not realize that he is in a DEMOCRATIC primary? He showed real weakness in Nevada with Dem voters. To continue to blame Dems for not being bipartisan enough is down right stupid.

    As true as I can remember it. He was (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by Teresa on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 09:32:27 PM EST
    back to his whole we have to all work together routine. My emotion meter went way down there. I thought he'd been much better earlier. But then what do I know? The poll on DailyKos only has Hillary winning 15% and Obama blowing her away. :)

    I think Jeralyn has the rough transcript posted. It's somewhere in the last ten minutes or so.


    No Surprise On Response To Poll On DKos (5.00 / 2) (#20)
    by MO Blue on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 09:37:12 PM EST
    Many have lost any objectivity where Obama is concerned. There was never any objectivity when it came to Clinton and it is only getting worse.

    The admins really need to step up and (none / 0) (#23)
    by Teresa on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 09:40:28 PM EST
    do something about it. There aren't so many Clinton supporters to run away but allowing all the garbage to be posted just makes the Obama people uglier and they'll be gone in any productive way if he loses. The site will be the big loser.

    Kos Was Actually A Part Of The Problem (5.00 / 4) (#41)
    by MO Blue on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 10:04:59 PM EST
    in his posts on Jan. 18th. He really jumped the shark on his post titled "Hillary has Lieberman's back." Talk about misstating what Hillary actually said during an interview.

    No secret that Kos doesn't like Hillary and never has. He announced that he voted early for Obama. Just don't see him doing anything to stop the feeding frenzy going on there now.

    I have argued against some of Hillary's policies and readily admit that I am no fan of the DLCs brand of politics. Unfortunately, I dislike Obama's Bipartisanship Forever brand even more. Also, his domestic policy positions seem the weakest of the three. Go into negotiations with the Republicans with a minimal policy and attempt to reach a bipartisanship agreement and you wind up with less than nothing.

    I was going to vote for Edwards but I'm beginning to think that he will throw his support to Obama and I not sure that Obama is ready for a tough primary. What's a girl to do?


    You summed me up pretty well, too. (5.00 / 1) (#49)
    by Teresa on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 10:18:22 PM EST
    I actually gave my only donation to Edwards to try and keep him in the race. I think his policies or at least his political nature is more like Hillary's and I've been disappointed in how he has almost been scared to criticize Obama. The Edwards we saw tonight is the one I really like and I think if he'd been this way all along, he'd have a much better chance. Like BTD said, he could have been the anti-Hillary for those who don't like her but he chose not to.

    I don't dislike Hillary at all and odds are I'll be voting for her Feb 5. I liked Obama better tonight and then he lost his fight to be a Democrat and disappointed me all over again.


    Edwards got my only contribution too! (5.00 / 2) (#50)
    by MarkL on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 10:19:12 PM EST
    I didn't think Hillary needed my money, and I like John's message.

    I think Edwards and Obama were saying (none / 0) (#55)
    by Rojas on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 10:25:00 PM EST
    the same thing. Don't close the door on the south when you got a real chance there.

    Didn't Edwards give the impression (5.00 / 1) (#51)
    by MarkL on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 10:20:12 PM EST
    of being less pro-Obama tonight?
    He would be a great asset campaigning for Hillary---not necessarily as the VP.
    I hope he can generate some enthusiasm for her.

    He actually stood up for what he (5.00 / 1) (#59)
    by Teresa on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 10:30:45 PM EST
    believes in tonight. I don't think it was to be anti-Obama but he was finally true to himself. I liked it. I think all three will come around and campaign for each other. I think anyone hoping for an Obama/Clinton or Clinton/Obama ticket can forget it after today though. Obama on Good Morning America and then tonight with WalMart and then Hillary let the hammer down. I don't blame her but Obama doesn't strike me as the forgiving type.

    you might (5.00 / 3) (#60)
    by athyrio on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 10:36:05 PM EST
    be surprised at what they will forgive in order to be addressed as Mr. Vice President.....LOL

    i saw edwards when he came to texas. (5.00 / 2) (#61)
    by hellothere on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 10:40:45 PM EST
    i really like him. he is natural and very down to earth. tonight with wolf blitzer, he didn't mince words but said he had his butt kicked in nevada. i still have his poster. maybe i'll get it framed.

    i have relatives from that part of the country and what he says about the mills is right on. by the way i have contributed to him also.


    Obama criticism (none / 0) (#11)
    by magster on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 09:25:05 PM EST
    He starts some sentences not knowing how he is going to end them, and as effective an orator he is, he sometimes looks lost and sounds unpassionate.

    he's a terrrible orator (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by Jeralyn on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 09:27:08 PM EST
    unless he's reading a speech from a teleprompter or talking about change and unity.  

    Law Professor (5.00 / 2) (#17)
    by BDB on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 09:34:49 PM EST
    CNN is showing an extended clip including Edwards going after Obama on his present votes.  It was classic trial lawyer v. law professor and law professors are going to lose that every time.

    I thought Obama was better tonight when it he was on the attack.  He was sharper than he usually is.

    On the defense, he fell back into his professorial style, which isn't effective in this environment.


    He Is Great At Giving Prepared Speeches (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by MO Blue on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 09:32:11 PM EST
    about unity and lofty visions. IMO not at his best in other venues (like debates)  when he has to provide more substance.

    Obama may have well (5.00 / 1) (#62)
    by ding7777 on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 10:41:25 PM EST
    in disavowing his Reagan because he lied about what he said.
    You just said I complimented the Republican ideas. That is not true. isn't what I said, and I will provide you with a quote, what I said was is that [sic] Ronald Reagan was a transformative political figure because he was able to get Democrats to vote against their economic interests to form a majority to push through their agenda

    Obama never said anything like that at the editorial board.


    IMO (none / 0) (#12)
    by athyrio on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 09:25:14 PM EST
    If Clinton can win this nomination after the MSM and all the liberal blogs posting against her she is an awesome lady and I admire that....That is a huge force to have against you and still be ahead in the polls...

    I agree athyrio (none / 0) (#45)
    by felizarte on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 10:11:09 PM EST
    I think she more than held her especially with the direct attacks on her coming from Sen. Obama.  Her intellectual and emotional toughness is exactly what the country wants and the polls show it.  I suspect that this debate will not change the outcome of the South Carolina vote.  I just wonder why no one in the media or some other prominent leaders have made a comment about women being the most discriminated group in the world since biblical times. I do want to see Hillary Clinton break that glass ceiling in this country.  The United States is at the forefront of most innovations, except in this regard.

    I'd give the edge (none / 0) (#22)
    by Grey on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 09:39:55 PM EST
    to Edwards, but barely, over Clinton.  This was, I agree with Jeralyn, Obama's worst debate to date; he was defensive, quick to flashes of anger when under scrutiny, and generally very thin-skinned.  This is the first time he's actually been challenged on the record with a degree of consistency, so I think it's very telling that he didn't seem to handle it well.

    A very poor performance for Obama.

    I agree... (5.00 / 2) (#27)
    by gaitor on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 09:48:31 PM EST
    Edwards shined and Hillary performed very well. Obama seemed completely out of his league.

    But check out the poll (and the comments) over at Daily Kos.

    Are you kidding me? Just saying Obama won doesn't make it so. His team had to have been cringing throughout the debate. I was, and he's not even my candidate.


    Polls ridiculous (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by Stellaaa on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 09:54:33 PM EST
    There is something infantile about the polls and the style of discussion.  I have not been partaking in the discussion, just reading and found myself entering a hornets nest.  Yikes, hiding here.  

    KOS (5.00 / 1) (#47)
    by Grey on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 10:15:08 PM EST
    The poll reverberates in the echo chamber.  That's it.  I'm a Clinton supporter but, as I said, I give Edwards the edge on points tonight.  Posters at KOS might benefit from some of the same objectivity.

    Why does DKOS bother (none / 0) (#25)
    by athyrio on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 09:43:31 PM EST
    to pretend to give a critical opinion....thats so silly when everyone knows who they are promoting....whats the difference between them and propagandi of any political regieme....NOTHING.....propagandi thats pretending to be otherwise is dishonest.....

    daily kos and obama (5.00 / 1) (#42)
    by hellothere on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 10:05:44 PM EST
    yes, i agree about daily kos and it is a real shame. i now come here to get balanced comments.

    the question asked on here earlier was where will the partisan obama supporters go if he does not get the nomination is a fair one. maybe they'll stay home because i can't imagine many of them voting for a republican.

    by the way i am an edwards supporter.


    CNN Focus Group of Undecideds (none / 0) (#33)
    by BDB on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 09:56:36 PM EST
    Said Edwards won.  

    Btut they also sd. they will vote for Obama. (none / 0) (#44)
    by oculus on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 10:10:01 PM EST
    When do (none / 0) (#39)
    by athyrio on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 10:03:38 PM EST
    new polls hit the press, the ones done since nevada caucus.....

    No Quarter USA (none / 0) (#43)
    by athyrio on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 10:09:47 PM EST
    is calling out Barrack and calling him a liar....

    They aren't the most objective (5.00 / 2) (#46)
    by Teresa on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 10:13:02 PM EST
    either athyrio. This site is the best. Jeralyn and BTD are open about who they support but they are honest in their criticisms.

    never been (5.00 / 1) (#58)
    by athyrio on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 10:30:36 PM EST
    to no quarter before tonite....Just kinda surfing looking for comments....

    Obama's Reagan moment.... (none / 0) (#74)
    by Pat on Tue Jan 22, 2008 at 05:29:48 AM EST
    I think Obama's talking about Reagan is going to bite him in the butt on Feb. 5. I heard the comments when he said them and immediately thought that he was pandering to the upcoming California vote and to a conservative editorial board. I was furious. And I've had quite a few emails and calls from serious Democrats who felt the same.

    And I agree -- if Hillary can win this nomination against the media and the so called lib blogs....she's a MOTHER of a campaigner.

    It is fun (none / 0) (#75)
    by Judith on Tue Jan 22, 2008 at 09:08:17 AM EST
    to read the morning after comments.

    Hillary came back from NY energized by her Black supporters who probably told her to go for it big time in the debate.  I think that since she expects to lose SC she had nothing to lose by getting it all on the table in the most blunt way ever.  I dont think Obama ever saw it coming.

    Edwards was back to the guy I have always liked -sharp as hell without being brutal. He was a jerk in the first debate I saw, but because Hillary was in the line of fire and not him, he had the best chance to get his points across since his calmness made him heard.  Didnt hurt that he was on his home turf.

    I thought Obama was a train wreck.  It is one thing not to be able to shine on policy experience you dont have, but quite another not to be able to defend your own history.  I wouldnt hire somebody unable to answer a question accurately on their own resume.  

    Lastly - the fact that HRC worked for Marian Wright Edelman in Chidren's Defense was all I needed to know.  She is the real deal.

    Democratic post-debate thread (none / 0) (#76)
    by muthu on Fri Nov 14, 2008 at 06:28:07 PM EST
    I am new in this topic. now Obama is the own majority to won a president election. its a great success in Obama. its a first time entering into black man won American history. really i like him.

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