Tonight's South Carolina Debate

By Big Tent Democrat, Section Elections 2008
Posted on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 09:30:51 AM EST
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Tonight the leading Democratic candidates for President, Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama and John Edwards, will be debating in Myrtle Beach, South Carolina. The debate presents a great opportunity to squelch the ethnic, racial and gender tensions storyline that the Media is shamefully trying to stoke. These are three good Democrats, fighting for their visions of enacting a progressive agenda. There are no heightened tensions as a result of this race, and that is a credit to all Democrats. I agree with Digby:

In this case you have a couple of candidates who are breaking down barriers and there are quite a few Democrats out there who find that exciting and meaningful. A lot of women, many of them older, look at the two candidates, don't see much difference between them on policies they care about and decide for the woman. Many African Americans are now looking at Obama and make the same calculation. Younger voters see someone of a new generation and think he sees the world as they do. Older people factor in experience, both life and political. There's nothing unusual or wrong about this. [MORE] . . .

. . . Democrats aren't voting against candidates because they don't like women or blacks or young or old. They are voting for them because they are women or blacks or old or young. It's not the same thing at all. The candidates are nearly indistinguishable on policy. On what basis are we supposed to make the choice? Flip a coin?

I do think there are some differences to consider. I think there are difference in theories of change that are a legitimate reason to favor one candidate or the other. There also seem to be differences in approaches to addressing health care. Obama opposed the Iraq Debacle in the beginning and Clinton and Edwards supported it. But I can not pretend that these differences are decisive or even that meaningful for a lot of voters. But I feel confident that among Dems, racial, ethnic and gender tension are not being exacerbated in this campaign.

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Tonight's South Carolina Debate | 27 comments (27 topical)

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Digby Is One Smart Lady (5.00 / 1) (#1)
by MO Blue on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 10:31:06 AM EST

She lays it out the way I believe it to be.

I vote on Feb 5th and I wish I could say that I am a enthusiastic supporter of a candidate. Unfortunately, I'm not. As it stands now, I don't really know who I will pull the lever for. There were definite reasons why I was one of the last holdouts for Gore. The reasons still exist and seem to be multiplying. I'm at the point where I would just like the primaries to be over and hope that the self inflicted wounds that I see growing daily, heal before the general election.

Does anyone require another debate? (none / 0) (#2)
by oculus on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 11:36:44 AM EST

Although it will be quite interesting to hear the questions, if they really are centered on issues most important to black voters.

I don't think Edwards and Obama requre (none / 0) (#5)
by MarkL on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 11:43:48 AM EST

another debate. I'm sure they're trying of being drubbed by Hillary.

[ Parent ]

I admire Edwards for admitting he got (none / 0) (#7)
by oculus on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 11:57:43 AM EST

his butt kicked in NV. Straight talker, at least on that point.

[ Parent ]

: I didn't see that.. good for him (none / 0) (#8)
by MarkL on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 11:58:57 AM EST

Despite all my misgivings about JRE, I really wish he were doing better---better than Obama, anyway!
Obama is the big disappointment to me, in this race.

[ Parent ]

Even disregarding affinity voting. . . (none / 0) (#3)
by LarryInNYC on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 11:38:56 AM EST

I think there are some elements of racial and ethnic tension within Democratic Party politics that the Democratic Party is going to have to come to grips with. I'm not sure how to do that and I think it's entirely possible that discussion in an anonymous open forum like this might fan the flames rather than calm them, but the issue is there and an ostrich-like approach is not going to make it go away.

I am confident (none / 0) (#4)
by athyrio on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 11:42:28 AM EST

that Obama will do everything in his power tonite to turn the subject into racism...

[ Parent ]

: I think the candidates themselves. . . (5.00 / 1) (#6)
by LarryInNYC on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 11:47:28 AM EST

are at least trying to do the right thing about racial issues. And I doubt very, very much that Obama will try to turn the election into a racial referendum -- both because I believe he's genuinely above that but also because it would be a big political mistake for him.
I do see attempts by some supporters on both sides to make racial arguments. But what I was referring to in my comment isn't anything particularly unique about this election. It refers to general strains within the "Democratic coalition" over issues of race which I think will play out in these primaries no less than in others, but which I hope will not come back to haunt us in the general election.

[ Parent ]
: I don't, but I do expect him to (none / 0) (#9)
by oculus on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 12:00:15 PM EST

ask black voters to vote for him.

[ Parent ]

Beg to disagree (none / 0) (#10)
by koshembos on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 12:25:47 PM EST

There was no racial tension until the Obama campaign saw an opening that will allow them to capture the majority of the African American vote. The MLK and fairytale controversy were targeted at the Clinton not because they are racists, but because the are the closet to the African American community.

Now Obama reaps what he sawed; he has the support of the African American community. He also, however, brought us back 20 years and into racial divides and fights.

A person such as that doesn't deserve to president now or ever.

I am still unsuccessfully trying to think of (none / 0) (#11)
by oculus on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 01:09:31 PM EST

even one traditional fairy tale commonly know in the U.S. in which there was even one black character.

[ Parent ]

The "Common" Fairytales (none / 0) (#12)
by squeaky on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 01:58:35 PM EST

Common among who? Here are some African ones.

[ Parent ]

Not sure if it qualifies.... (none / 0) (#13)
by kdog on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 02:10:25 PM EST

as a fairy tale, but John Henry the Steel Drivin' Man comes to mind.

[ Parent ]

Do Folk Tales Count? (none / 0) (#14)
by squeaky on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 02:17:22 PM EST

Usually Fairy tales are european based, but for folk tales there is Uncle Remus, for starters.

Google has more.

[ Parent ]

I guess we need to read Bill (none / 0) (#15)
by oculus on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 02:19:10 PM EST

Clinton's mind when he initially sd. "fairy tale."

[ Parent ]

I Read This Post (none / 0) (#16)
by squeaky on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 03:25:27 PM EST

And the links and I have not seen any mention of fairy tales. Where did you get it?

[ Parent ]

Or, in simpler lingo: OT? (none / 0) (#18)
by oculus on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 03:37:28 PM EST

I was reflecting on the comment above.

[ Parent ]

Geez (none / 0) (#19)
by squeaky on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 04:13:05 PM EST

I missed that.

BTW-Been smoking? I assume not, based on previous comments, but nonetheless, quite a... um... creative jump.

[ Parent ]

Which is my friends wait to the (none / 0) (#20)
by oculus on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 04:20:50 PM EST

end of whatever I sd. to determine what, if any, conncection exists to the conversation!

[ Parent ]

OK (none / 0) (#21)
by squeaky on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 04:58:41 PM EST

Time for me to have a smoke so I can keep up with you associative prowess.

[ Parent ]

You need to stay sharp for the impending (none / 0) (#22)
by oculus on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 05:01:10 PM EST

Dem. debate.

[ Parent ]

Yes (none / 0) (#23)
by squeaky on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 05:03:05 PM EST

It keeps me sharp and focused, esp when I am watching or doing something really boring like these debates.

[ Parent ]

I'll be reading your comments with (none / 0) (#24)
by oculus on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 05:06:54 PM EST

that information in mind!

[ Parent ]

It Is OK (none / 0) (#25)
by squeaky on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 05:27:23 PM EST

I was kidding about watching the debate. I do not have a tv and am not interested in watching it. Instead I will follow TL coverage. Later if there is something of note I will catch it on youtube or wherever it is linked.

[ Parent ]

: You can probably watch it on line (none / 0) (#27)
by oculus on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 06:16:11 PM EST

at CNN's website.

[ Parent ]

Cinderella (none / 0) (#17)
by PlayInPeoria on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 03:25:58 PM EST

1997 production for TV starred Brandy. Whitney Houston was the Fairy God mother. Multi-racial production. The Prince was a Philippino, Paolo Montalban. I loved it and I prefer my grandkids watch this version.

[ Parent ]

Nervous (none / 0) (#26)
by athyrio on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 05:49:48 PM EST

I am really nervous about this date tonite as I can see great room for disaster....but then as my grandkids say, I am a worry wart....Go Hillary!!