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Today's Question

Since President Bush doesn't believe that lying to federal investigators or grand jurors really deserves punishment (at least in the case of his friend and fellow rascal Scooter Libby), do you suppose he'll commute the sentences of Pro Bowl defensive lineman Dana Stubblefield or Olympic medalist sprinter Marion Jones?

Oh, and to all the disgruntled Republicans who complained that nobody gets charged or convicted or punished for what Scooter Libby did -- tell that to Stubblefield and Jones.

< Death Sentence Commuted After Lawyer Receives Permission to Reveal Misconduct | Cheney Deposition Sought in Colorado Over Alleged Assault >
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    simply put, he isn't (5.00 / 2) (#3)
    by cpinva on Fri Jan 18, 2008 at 11:52:41 PM EST
    Simply put, the man is innocent.

    but then, you already know that. really, just because you continue to shout the big lie, that won't make it true. i kid you not.

    just about anything bush does is

    the least he could do

    that's been pretty much proven, repeatedly, since his inauguration.

    I nominate this (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by Wile ECoyote on Sat Jan 19, 2008 at 06:44:58 AM EST
    for comedy post of the month.  This has to be an Onion submission that was rejected.  

    I agree Jim's assertion is laughable. (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by Molly Bloom on Sat Jan 19, 2008 at 08:24:35 AM EST
    Some people just can't face facts.

    "Once in a while you get shown the light In the strangest of places if you look at it right"
    [ Parent ]

    I would say that (1.00 / 0) (#2)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Jan 18, 2008 at 11:21:39 PM EST
    since Libby was the victim of a political agenda, what Bush did was the least he could do.

    Simply put, the man is innocent.

    hehe (1.00 / 0) (#6)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jan 19, 2008 at 08:32:21 AM EST
    The man was prosecuted for supposedly committing perjury and obstruction about something that was not a crime, and if you want to claim that it was, had been done by others, and admitted by others as soon as the investigation started.

    All done in a hot house of MSM articles and charges.

    BTW - what has happened to the big lawsuit that Mr and Mrs Wilson was bringing??

    Got it all wrong again, PPJ, but what else is new? (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by Dark Avenger on Sat Jan 19, 2008 at 09:34:40 AM EST
    From the Wikipedia.

    In United States v. Libby, the jury convicted Libby on four of the five counts in the indictment: one count of obstruction of justice; two counts of perjury; and one count of making false statements to federal investigators.[6] Libby is "the highest-ranking White House official convicted in a government scandal since National Security Adviser John Poindexter in the Iran-Contra affair two decades ago."[7][8]
    '

    The man was prosecuted for supposedly committing perjury and obstruction about something that was not a crime

    You forgot the conviction for making false statements to federal investigators, the same thing that the two athletes have pled guilty to in Federal court, even though what they made false statements about wasn't a crime in and of itself.

    Lets' hear what a responsible prosecutor has to say about the matter:

    From the Fitzgerald press conference:

    QUESTION: Mr. Fitzgerald, the Republicans previewed some talking points in anticipation of your indictment and they said that if you didn't indict on the underlying crimes and you indicted on things exactly like you did indict -- false statements, perjury, obstruction -- these were, quote/unquote, "technicalities," and that it really was over reaching and excessive.

    And since, when and if they make those claims, now that you have indicted, you won't respond, I want to give you an opportunity now to respond to that allegation which they may make. It seems like that's the road they're going down.

    FITZGERALD: And I don't know who provided those talking points. I assume...

    QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)

    FITZGERALD: I'm not asking -- OK.

    QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)

    FITZGERALD: I'll be blunt.

    That talking point won't fly. If you're doing a national security investigation, if you're trying to find out who compromised the identity of a CIA officer and you go before a grand jury and if the charges are proven -- because remember there's a presumption of innocence -- but if it is proven that the chief of staff to the vice president went before a federal grand jury and lied under oath repeatedly and fabricated a story about how he learned this information, how he passed it on, and we prove obstruction of justice, perjury and false statements to the FBI, that is a very, very serious matter.

    FITZGERALD: And I'd say this: I think people might not understand this. We, as prosecutors and FBI agents, have to deal with false statements, obstruction of justice and perjury all the time. The Department of Justice charges those statutes all the time.

    When I was in New York working as a prosecutor, we brought those cases because we realized that the truth is the engine of our judicial system. And if you compromise the truth, the whole process is lost.

    In Philadelphia, where Jack works, they prosecute false statements and obstruction of justice.

    When I got to Chicago, I knew the people before me had prosecuted false statements, obstruction and perjury cases.

    FITZGERALD: And we do it all the time. And if a truck driver pays a bribe or someone else does something where they go into a grand jury afterward and lie about it, they get indicted all the time.

    Any notion that anyone might have that there's a different standard for a high official, that this is somehow singling out obstruction of justice and perjury, is upside down.

    If these facts are true, if we were to walk away from this and not charge obstruction of justice and perjury, we might as well just hand in our jobs. Because our jobs, the criminal justice system, is to make sure people tell us the truth. And when it's a high-level official and a very sensitive investigation, it is a very, very serious matter that no one should take lightly.

    As for Wilson v Cheney:

    United States District Court for the District of Columbia Judge John D. Bates, a George W. Bush appointee, dismissed the Wilson's lawsuit on jurisdictional grounds on July 19, 2007, stating that the Wilsons had not shown that the case belonged in federal court.[6][7][8][9] Bates also ruled that the court lacked jurisdiction over the claim because the couple had not yet exhausted their administrative remedies.[8] Bates noted that "there can be no serious dispute that the act of rebutting public criticism, such as that levied by Mr. Wilson against the Bush administration's handling of prewar foreign intelligence, by speaking with members of the press is within the scope of defendants' duties as high-level Executive Branch officials," even if "the alleged means by which defendants chose to rebut Mr. Wilson's comments and attack his credibility" were "highly unsavory"; but Judge Bates also acknowledged that the lawsuit raised "important questions relating to the propriety of actions undertaken by our highest government officials."[10]

    Hyuck-yuck-yuck.

    [ Parent ]

    Yadda DA (none / 0) (#8)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jan 19, 2008 at 09:50:06 PM EST
    The fact is that it was the aggressive politically driven investigation about a non-crime.

    All the rest is smoke and mirrors.

    hehe

    [ Parent ]

    Fitzgerald already addressed that question (none / 0) (#9)
    by Dark Avenger on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 11:21:32 AM EST
    if you bothered to read the transcript:

    QUESTION: Mr. Fitzgerald, your critics are charging that you are a partisan who was conducting what, in essence, was a...

    (UNKNOWN): In which government (ph)?

    (LAUGHTER)

    FITZGERALD: You tell me.

    QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE) witch hunt. I mean, how do you respond to (inaudible) since you are in Washington...

    FITZGERALD: I don't know -- you know, it's sort of, "When'd you stop beating your wife?"

    One day I read that I was a Republican hack, another day I read that I was a Democratic hack, and the only thing I did between those two nights was sleep.

    I'm not partisan. I'm not registered as part of a party. And I'll leave it there.

    and the judge in the case, according to the Wikipedia, at least doesn't seem like a Leftist, anti-war partisan hack:

    Walton served as an Associate Judge of the Superior Court of the District of Columbia from 1981 to 1989 and from 1991 to 2001. He also served as associate director of the Office of National Drug Control Policy. In 2001, he was nominated to be a federal bench by President George W. Bush, and subsequently confirmed by the U.S. Senate. In 2004, Bush appointed him to chair a commission investigating ways to curb prison rape. In May 2007, Chief Justice of the United States John G. Roberts Jr. appointed him to a seat on the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court.[1]

    Despite his appointments by Republican officials, The Washington Post reported, "fellow judges and lawyers who appear before him say Walton's decisions do not appear to be guided by politics but by a tough-on-crime mentality." Walton is known by local defense attorneys as a "long ball hitter" - a judge willing to impose long sentences in order to deter future crimes.[1] In fall 2005, the judge was driving his wife and daughter to the airport for a vacation when he came across an assailant attacking a cab driver on the side of the road. Walton tackled the assailant and subdued him until police arrived. The D.C. police spokesperson noted in response, "God bless Judge Walton. I surely wouldn't want to mess with him."[1]

    Again, since it apparently didn't sink in the first time:

    ......if it is proven that the chief of staff to the vice president went before a federal grand jury and lied under oath repeatedly and fabricated a story about how he learned this information, how he passed it on, and we prove obstruction of justice, perjury and false statements to the FBI, that is a very, very serious matter.

    The fact is that it was the aggressive politically driven investigation about a non-crime.

    Lying to federal investigators is a crime, and there have been cases where the underlying 'crime'  itself wasn't prosecuted:

    According to U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission in a federal indictment, Stewart avoided a loss of $45,673 by selling all 3,928 shares of her ImClone stock in late 2001. The day following her sale, the stock value fell 16%.[4]

    Stewart voluntarily stepped down as CEO and Chairwoman of MSLO but stayed on a chief creative officer. She went on trial in January 2004. Prosecutors showed that Peter Bacanovic, Stewart's broker at Merrill Lynch, ordered his assistant to tell Stewart that the CEO of ImClone, Samuel D. Waksal, was selling all his shares in advance of an adverse Food and Drug Administration ruling. The FDA action was expected to cause ImClone shares to decline. [5]

    After a highly publicized, five-week jury trial that was the most closely watched of a wave of corporate fraud trials, Stewart was found guilty in March 2004 of conspiracy, obstruction of an agency proceeding, and making false statements to federal investigators and sentenced in July 2004 to serve a five month term in a federal correctional facility and a two year period of supervised release (to include five months of home confinement). [6]

    Stewart agreed in September 2004 to begin serving a five-month prison term while her appeal was still pending. In October 2004, she reported to Alderson Federal Prison Camp in West Virginia. She was released on March 4, 2005, after which she was placed under home confinement and required to wear an ankle bracelet for an additional 5 months.

    Bacanovic and Waksal were also convicted of federal charges and sentenced to prison terms.[7][8] Stewart also paid a fine of US$30,000.[9]

    Of course, there were some at the time who thought the prosecution was politically motivated, but I don't think any of them were independent social liberals.

    As for "Smoke and mirrors", I'll respond as I did the last time you engaged in such tactics:

    After Fitzgerad knew there was no crime, why didn't he just stop?

    That's the second time you've failed to present a reasonable case for Libby's lies to the investigators not being worth prosecuting.

    You forgot what Fitzpatrick said in his press conference, btw:

    Investigators do not set out to investigate the statute, they set out to gather the facts.

        It's critical that when an investigation is conducted by prosecutors, agents and a grand jury they learn who, what, when, where and why. And then they decide, based upon accurate facts, whether a crime has been committed, who has committed the crime, whether you can prove the crime and whether the crime should be charged.

        Agent Eckenrode doesn't send people out when $1 million is missing from a bank and tell them, "Just come back if you find wire fraud." If the agent finds embezzlement, they follow through on that.

        FITZGERALD: That's the way this investigation was conducted. It was known that a CIA officer's identity was blown, it was known that there was a leak. We needed to figure out how that happened, who did it, why, whether a crime was committed, whether we could prove it, whether we should prove it.

    Folks can choose between your unsourced snark and what I've written and quoted on the subject, here and on other threads.............

    [ Parent ]

    Boy, you sure spend (none / 0) (#10)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 11:45:42 AM EST
    a lot of time trying to deny the obvious.

    The whole deal was driven by a political agenda.

    Any reasonable person can see that.

    But then again, you aren't..

    So tehehe and yadda yadda. Go bite someone else's ankle.

    [ Parent ]

    I wouldn't call 3 minutes 'a lot ot time' (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by Dark Avenger on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 08:46:56 PM EST
    unless I was a mayfly, and as for

    trying to deny the obvious.

    I'll let others judge for themselves, you don't exactly have a spotless record when it comes to what is and isn't obvious:

    PPJ - granted there is a lot of dissemination from the leftists here, but aren't you twisting the facts somewhat in terms of Byrd using the "n" word? I watched the interview (both parts) and he doesn't use it except in a rerun clip from the incident in 2001. Ergo, he only made that mistake once (publicly).

    You know the old saw about glass houses and stones, don't you PPJ?

    The whole deal was driven by a political agenda.

    Any reasonable person can see that.

    Then you shouldn't have trouble with information and/or reasoning to back up your claim.

    But then again, you aren't..

    You are reminding me of Mother Avengers' dictum that crazy people think they're fine, it's the rest of the world that's out of sync.

    So tehehe and yadda yadda. Go bite someone else's ankle.

    I don't frequent such low joints, PPJ, and if there as much meat on your ankle as in your argument you've have the new nickname of "Skeleton  PPJ".

    [ Parent ]

    Or THe Invisible Man (5.00 / 0) (#12)
    by squeaky on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 02:20:50 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Question (none / 0) (#1)
    by BDB on Fri Jan 18, 2008 at 11:09:12 PM EST
    I presume your question is rhetorical.