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Obama's Straight Talk Express Takes A Detour

By Big Tent Democrat, Section Elections 2008
Posted on Fri Jan 18, 2008 at 09:41:51 AM EST
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At a campaign event yesterday, Barack Obama said:
You won't hear me saying one thing one day to one audience and then saying something else another day to a different audience because I think it's politically convenient.

Um, perhaps Senator Obama can explain why he said one thing in Iowa about independent expenditures and something else in Nevada? How come Obama criticized union expenditures in the Iowa caucus campaign and refuses to do so regarding UNITE HERE's independent expenditures in Nevada? Could it be that there is a new rule for Obama? Is it ok if the expenditure is in support of his candidacy? Is it ok if it is "politically convenient" for Barack Obama?

As I have said, this is politics as usual. The problem is Obama pretends he is going to reinvent politics. He is not. He is just a pol. An extremely talented one. But still just a pol.

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    Obama's Straight Talk Express Takes A Detour | 71 comments (71 topical)

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    and sadly (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by athyrio on Fri Jan 18, 2008 at 09:50:57 AM EST
    a pol that threatens to destroy what is left of the democratic party....He needs to come out as the republican that he is....

    I thought false (5.00 / 1) (#57)
    by Jgarza on Fri Jan 18, 2008 at 02:10:53 PM EST
    accusations were deleted.

    .He needs to come out as the republican that he is....

    The fact that you have readers that actually think, Obama is a republican, IMO is a sign that some of these attacks have been taken to far.  

    Parent

    seriously? (5.00 / 1) (#60)
    by Jgarza on Fri Jan 18, 2008 at 02:23:00 PM EST
    a pol that threatens to destroy what is left of the democratic party

    Candidate bashing?

    Parent

    hey (none / 0) (#66)
    by Judith on Fri Jan 18, 2008 at 02:49:00 PM EST
    I answered your question on the other thread - please read - thanks

    Parent
    I got banned for forcefully (none / 0) (#71)
    by kovie on Sat Jan 19, 2008 at 12:41:05 AM EST
    responding to that comment, which I think confirms your fears.

    See ya.

    Parent

    You're an idiot (1.00 / 1) (#24)
    by kovie on Fri Jan 18, 2008 at 11:56:55 AM EST
    Or a shill. Of that I have zero doubt.

    Parent
    please dont call her names (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by Judith on Fri Jan 18, 2008 at 12:30:16 PM EST
    unless you want to be called them.  ok?

    Parent
    Please leave the site for today (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Jan 18, 2008 at 12:31:26 PM EST
    You can not abide by the site rules and I would kindly ask you to come back tomorrow.

    Parent
    No problem (none / 0) (#70)
    by kovie on Sat Jan 19, 2008 at 12:39:32 AM EST
    The level of discourse here, not to mention these bizarre etiquette rules that I've seen on no other serious progressive blog, makes it hard to have intelligent and honest discussions about politics anyway. At least DKos doesn't ban users for the occasional hot-headed remark. Politics isn't a tea party.

    Parent
    Banned? (none / 0) (#73)
    by squeaky on Sat Jan 19, 2008 at 01:44:08 PM EST
    Looks like you are exaggerating again.

    Parent
    I was asked to leave the site for the day (none / 0) (#74)
    by kovie on Sat Jan 19, 2008 at 03:28:56 PM EST
    That's banning in my book.

    Parent
    OK (none / 0) (#75)
    by squeaky on Sat Jan 19, 2008 at 03:58:55 PM EST
    Sounds more like you got a time out to me because you lost your temper..... Not the worst thing.

    Parent
    ha... (none / 0) (#21)
    by mindfulmission on Fri Jan 18, 2008 at 11:38:16 AM EST
    Do you really believe that Obama is a Republican?

    That is pretty funny stuff...

    Parent

    yes I do (none / 0) (#25)
    by athyrio on Fri Jan 18, 2008 at 12:00:00 PM EST
    because the core values of the democratic party have to be followed and he isnt doing it. He is ready to align himself with the other side and put down the issues of the 60's which is so dear to my heart. Those of you that werent there in those days should remember that those were horrid years that left scars but we were able to transform this society in many wonderful ways....and they should be remembered and respected for it....not brushed aside....

    Parent
    maybe he doesnt want (none / 0) (#39)
    by Judith on Fri Jan 18, 2008 at 12:31:00 PM EST
    to be associated with "excesses" becuase he has indulged himself.

    Parent
    IOKIYBO (5.00 / 2) (#6)
    by andgarden on Fri Jan 18, 2008 at 10:33:41 AM EST


    "He is just a pol." (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by benwaymd on Fri Jan 18, 2008 at 10:44:37 AM EST
    So is Hillary (minus the "talented" part).

    Sure (none / 0) (#17)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Jan 18, 2008 at 11:14:59 AM EST


    Parent
    Obama (5.00 / 1) (#46)
    by callie on Fri Jan 18, 2008 at 01:04:41 PM EST
    I totally agree with you Big Tent. Like so many other politicians Obama has proven he is a hypocrite. In fact, I believe there is an article about him on www.hypocrisy.com. I was truly hoping that he would be better than that. He is a good public speaker, his words eloquent and fluid. He captures your attention and at times, touches your heart. However, that does not make him the best candidate for presidency. I often wonder if the candidates actually realize the overwhelming responsibility of being the president of the United States.

    Wow (5.00 / 1) (#47)
    by athyrio on Fri Jan 18, 2008 at 01:05:54 PM EST
    What I find absolutely astonishing is that noone and I mean NOONE has even questioned the vicious rumors and put downs of Clinton put forth by the republican party and the Hillary haters who cannot even explain why they hate her when questioned...This is all a huge game being played on our heads and Obama is part of it I believe....He has split our party wide open....So sad...

    What I hear in this comment (none / 0) (#50)
    by scalibur on Fri Jan 18, 2008 at 01:36:06 PM EST
    is Clintonian entitlement.

    But if she wins, I doubt the party will remain split. I understand the fear, and the threat of the Republicans is very real, but directing these kind of histrionics at Obama is unnecessary.

    Remember the period after Iowa? Coronations are a BAD thing. You wouldn't want one for Clinton. By presenting a credible opposition, Obama's doing her, the Democratic Party, and voters a favor. Both candidates are improved by the substantive debates and the trial by fire.

    Parent

    that is Chris Matthews's assessment, but (none / 0) (#52)
    by oculus on Fri Jan 18, 2008 at 01:41:01 PM EST
    I don't infer that view from the comment to which you replied.

    Parent
    I really don't think Obama is encouraging (none / 0) (#51)
    by oculus on Fri Jan 18, 2008 at 01:39:27 PM EST
    the Hillary Haters; not that they seem to need any encouragement.  Today's meme:  10th anniversary of revelation of Monicagate.

    Parent
    Anyone (5.00 / 1) (#53)
    by athyrio on Fri Jan 18, 2008 at 01:42:31 PM EST
    Anyone wanting to be like Reagan offends me. Our struggles in the 60's etc. were important to our society and changed us for the better. Noone should ever forget that.

    Wanting to win (none / 0) (#59)
    by Jgarza on Fri Jan 18, 2008 at 02:18:03 PM EST
    big and change the tone of the country to the left offends you? Color me baffled.

    Parent
    Oh No Don't Tell Me Obama Is A Politician (none / 0) (#2)
    by MO Blue on Fri Jan 18, 2008 at 10:22:25 AM EST
    Surely not. {pop - sound of bubble bursting}

    It will be interesting to see how Obama gets around this little tidbit if it traction in Nevada.

    Barack Obama has warned about the dangers of gambling -- that it carries a "moral and social cost" that could "devastate" poor communities. As a state senator in Illinois, he at times opposed plans to expand gambling, worrying that it could be especially harmful to low-income people. LATimes
    here (none / 0) (#3)
    by athyrio on Fri Jan 18, 2008 at 10:25:00 AM EST
    is a link from the Hillary campaign this morning addressing that....

    http://www.hillaryclinton.com/news/release/view/?id=5285

    I dont know how to paste a link and then call it just a word instead of the entire link....Would someone please teach me????

    It is simple here (none / 0) (#4)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Jan 18, 2008 at 10:31:06 AM EST
    You click the 4th icon from the left just above the comment box - it looks like a link or chain.

    that will provide you a space to then paste in the link you wish to highlight.

    That's it.  

    Parent

    Put brackets around the entire link; (none / 0) (#5)
    by oculus on Fri Jan 18, 2008 at 10:32:09 AM EST
    immed. after the initial bracket, type your WORD; then highlight the WORD and press preview.  If WORD appears highlighted but not the link, go ahead and post.  

    Parent
    One Additional Piece Of Information (none / 0) (#7)
    by MO Blue on Fri Jan 18, 2008 at 10:41:56 AM EST
    to BTD's comment on links. After you put the link in the box and click OK it will appear in your comment but it incomplete at that point. Go to the very end of the statement and the last six characters will be "></a. You need to insert a name (i.e. NYT) between the><.

    Parent
    ok (none / 0) (#8)
    by athyrio on Fri Jan 18, 2008 at 10:42:12 AM EST
    ok I got the box and pasted in the link but got lost after that....I am hopeless and so sorry to be so much trouble....

    Stop worrying. Kos has declared a DK winner: (none / 0) (#11)
    by oculus on Fri Jan 18, 2008 at 10:48:21 AM EST
    Obama.

    W/analysis:

    Four percent of it [DK votes moving from candidates no longer in the race]goes to Hillary, and only two to Obama. I wouldn't have expected that. Obama now leads the field, and will likely do so from here on out. The netroots in general is more anti-establishment than anything else, so Hillary is at a gross disadvantage on that front. But Obama's lead is more a function of Edwards deflation, and a significant chunk of Edwards supporters than any real spike in his support. And Hillary was the big (percentage-wise) gainer.

    test (none / 0) (#13)
    by athyrio on Fri Jan 18, 2008 at 11:09:10 AM EST
    hello Ok I think I did it in the Hello word hey guys thanks very much....

    Almost got it (none / 0) (#32)
    by ding7777 on Fri Jan 18, 2008 at 12:18:53 PM EST
    but you have two http:// (yours and the one that the LINK provedes automatically)

    Erase one of them before you click OK  

    Parent

    geezzz (none / 0) (#14)
    by athyrio on Fri Jan 18, 2008 at 11:12:32 AM EST
    oh geez that link isnt working now what did I do

    Try my method (explained above). (none / 0) (#16)
    by oculus on Fri Jan 18, 2008 at 11:14:44 AM EST
    Usually works.

    Parent
    One more like that (none / 0) (#15)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Jan 18, 2008 at 11:13:44 AM EST
    and yuou will be baned ben whatever.

    As is deleted.

    Oculus (none / 0) (#18)
    by athyrio on Fri Jan 18, 2008 at 11:29:47 AM EST
    Didn't work but remember that I am an old lady and not very good at this stuff but thanks for trying to help me :-)

    Just erase (none / 0) (#33)
    by ding7777 on Fri Jan 18, 2008 at 12:20:20 PM EST
    one the http:// and you'll be ok

    Parent
    Being such a young technocrat myself (not), (none / 0) (#41)
    by oculus on Fri Jan 18, 2008 at 12:37:38 PM EST
    I understand.  Did hear on am yesterday a piece about an "old lady," who turned out to be 61 years old!

    Parent
    What did he say about it in Nevada? (none / 0) (#19)
    by converse on Fri Jan 18, 2008 at 11:32:48 AM EST
    "he said one thing in Iowa about independent expenditures and something else in Nevada?"

    I haven't heard that he's made any comment about UNITE's ad.  Maybe we should wait until he contradicts himself before we accuse him of contradicting himself.

    Hsi campaign has (none / 0) (#38)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Jan 18, 2008 at 12:30:17 PM EST
    Click the second link.

    Parent
    His Campaign, Not He, (none / 0) (#43)
    by converse on Fri Jan 18, 2008 at 12:42:51 PM EST
    deftly avoided the question. Different than Obama saying it was okay or even Obama refusing to comment.

    Parent
    Excuse me? (none / 0) (#44)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Jan 18, 2008 at 12:55:20 PM EST
    Are you saying his campaign does not speak for him?

    This is novel.

    Parent

    You're Excused (none / 0) (#45)
    by converse on Fri Jan 18, 2008 at 01:03:32 PM EST
    for first saying that Obama had contradicted himself, then backtracking and saying the campaign contradicted itself, and now continuing to pretend that anyone actually said what you accused them of.  Show me the quote from Obama or his campaign that says this ad is a good thing or where he refuses to condemn the ad.

    Bill Burton said: "Sen. Obama believes, and has said clearly, that campaigns should fund themselves and discourages supporters from spending outside the campaign."

    Parent

    No backtrack (none / 0) (#48)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Jan 18, 2008 at 01:26:40 PM EST
    When I write Obama I mean he AND his campaign.

    Jsut as I do with Hillary.

    Your view is novel to me.

    Parent

    Show Me The Quote /eom (none / 0) (#49)
    by converse on Fri Jan 18, 2008 at 01:29:40 PM EST


    Parent
    you seem to have (none / 0) (#54)
    by Jgarza on Fri Jan 18, 2008 at 01:57:53 PM EST
    a preference lately for interpretations of what Obama (and others)  said rather than his actual words.

    Parent
    Time's Up, You Lose (none / 0) (#55)
    by converse on Fri Jan 18, 2008 at 02:08:50 PM EST
    Please try again later.

    Parent
    BTD, Your readers are not children... (none / 0) (#20)
    by madpie on Fri Jan 18, 2008 at 11:33:33 AM EST
    ... and we actually realize that Obama is politician, a human being, and (like all of us) a person with internal contradictions. I'm not sure why you keep making this point, arguing that "Obama doesn't get it," that he isn't "walking the walk," that he's only a "fighter for Obama," that his candidacy is a "promise unfulfilled," and that he's not actually wildly different from other politicians.

    Guess what: we get the point. You've said it many, many times before. Not only that, most of your readers are also capable of parsing a politician's rhetoric, and we also comprehend that the motives of a national-level candidate are complex. It's not rocket science.

    So Obama is not Jesus Christ. Who cares? The decision between candidates is a pragmatic one. In the Democratic race, it's a contest between two actual people, not between Obama and your idealized version of who you wish Obama was. Unless I'm missing something, Hillary has a few flaws as well. They are not necessarily any less gruesome than the flaws you're attributing, over and over again, to her opponent.

    I think it has everything to do (5.00 / 2) (#22)
    by andgarden on Fri Jan 18, 2008 at 11:39:21 AM EST
    with the way Obama presents himself. If you're going to claim to be a leader who can transform politics, you better be prepared for people to call you out if you behave like a traditional politician.

    Parent
    Oh dear lord (none / 0) (#26)
    by kovie on Fri Jan 18, 2008 at 12:02:01 PM EST
    Must we continue to obsess over his every word and mistake as if THIS is the one that FINALLY proves that he's the BIG PHONY that we always KNEW he was? He's a politician, who needs to say things to people to make them support him. When has this EVER not been the case? None of the three remaining candidates could pass the tests that only seem to be applied to Obama. Is this a matter of wanting to make him a better candidate and politician, sour grapes over supporting one of the other two, or disappointment that he's not perfect? I really don't get the deep anti-Obama hatred here. I call it Obama Derangement Syndrome.

    Ooh my, he's not perfect, someone call him out!

    Parent

    For me it's a distaste for hypocrisy (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by andgarden on Fri Jan 18, 2008 at 12:14:02 PM EST
    and lingering anger over his disgusting behavior wrt Donnie McClurkin.

    If I thought John Edwards stood more of a chance, I would probably be just as harsh on him too.

    Hillary is who she is, and has never pretended to be anything different.

    Parent

    I was furious with him (none / 0) (#31)
    by Warren Terrer on Fri Jan 18, 2008 at 12:16:34 PM EST
    over McLurkin. But he lost me for good with his happy talk about Ronald Reagan. The man simply refuses to stand up for the things I believe in. I don't support him.

    Parent
    You've just made BTD's point (3.00 / 2) (#30)
    by Warren Terrer on Fri Jan 18, 2008 at 12:14:56 PM EST
    about Obama:

    He's a politician, who needs to say things to people to make them support him. When has this EVER not been the case? None of the three remaining candidates could pass the tests that only seem to be applied to Obama.

    The test keeps being applied to Obama because his entire platform is that he is a DIFFERENT kind of politician who will transcend politics through straight-talk and reaching out to our political opponents. But he keeps failing, revealing himself, once again, to be just another politician who will say whatever it takes to get elected.

    You are just another tiresome Obamaniac. Yawn.

    Parent

    Because history is filled (1.00 / 1) (#72)
    by kovie on Sat Jan 19, 2008 at 12:46:45 AM EST
    with successful politicians who were pure as snow and never stretched the truth or heaped on the BS to get ahead.

    Kindly show me just ONE who succeeded at this level. Yeah, I didn't think so.

    Enjoy searching for this year's Nader. Thanks for giving us Bush.

    I'm outta here.

    Parent

    Calm down (none / 0) (#36)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Jan 18, 2008 at 12:29:18 PM EST
    You are getting way out of hand.

    I have warned you once now.

    Parent

    My comments today (none / 0) (#69)
    by kovie on Sat Jan 19, 2008 at 12:29:39 AM EST
    were all posted at around the same time, before I got any responses, so I didn't see your warning. I've been out all day and just saw it.

    I'm starting to realize that maybe this isn't the site for me. Let's leave it at that.

    Parent

    Heh (none / 0) (#35)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Jan 18, 2008 at 12:28:37 PM EST
    My readers are not.

    I am glad. Funny how some of them act like children when I point out that Obama IS a pol.

    Parent

    Re: "My readers" (none / 0) (#61)
    by oculus on Fri Jan 18, 2008 at 02:25:03 PM EST
    Comforting.

    Parent
    Why you continue to attack Obama far more (none / 0) (#23)
    by kovie on Fri Jan 18, 2008 at 11:56:26 AM EST
    than the other two continues to elude me. Must we continue to endure Obama Derangement Syndrome until the convention, if not beyond?

    As if the other two have better track records. Which of course you'd agree that they don't. And yet he gets the bulk of your criticisms. It's like an obsession.

    I'm choosing to believe that he's still the one you're leaninig towards, and that this criticism is a combination of "tough love" and venting your frustration at his not being perfect and instead being, um, a politician.

    please refrain (none / 0) (#34)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Jan 18, 2008 at 12:27:49 PM EST
    from personal attacks.

    I am not allowed to respond in kind so if you do it again I will delete.

    Parent

    it isn't (none / 0) (#27)
    by athyrio on Fri Jan 18, 2008 at 12:03:01 PM EST
    the track record that counts but the respect and beliefs in the core values of the party that counts....There can be no compromise....

    Exactly what core (none / 0) (#58)
    by Jgarza on Fri Jan 18, 2008 at 02:15:56 PM EST
    values of the democratic party does Obama not agree with?

    Parent
    Obviously lame tactics. (none / 0) (#28)
    by Ramo on Fri Jan 18, 2008 at 12:06:47 PM EST
    In this stage of the campaign, it's just getting nasty.  I'd say that Clinton was quite a bit dirtier (i.e. in the attempted disenfranchisement of CWU workers).

    'Course, this is nothing compared to that circus the Republicans are holding in SC.

    I gave up (none / 0) (#42)
    by athyrio on Fri Jan 18, 2008 at 12:39:06 PM EST
    I gave up on the learning experience because now I cannot even get the word to appear...So obviously my mind isn't getting around it...but thanks for the attempt to help this ole dog...:-)

    I agree w/Feingold, who (none / 0) (#56)
    by oculus on Fri Jan 18, 2008 at 02:09:12 PM EST
    has rejected Edwards:

    On whether he'll make an endorsement in the Feb. 19 Wisconsin primary

    Probably not. I'm having a hard time deciding between Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama, as are many people. Those are the two I take the most seriously.

    I go back and forth, to be honest with you. I'm torn on this whole issue of who's more likely to be progressive and really seek change vs. who's ready to do the job today. It really is a true dilemma in my mind.
    Off-topic (none / 0) (#63)
    by commissar on Fri Jan 18, 2008 at 02:34:31 PM EST
    "BTD, what is your biggest weakness as a blogger?"

    BTD: "I try too hard to be fair and impartial. I just get impatient with people not understanding that a commitment to progressive values and an ability to withstand the Rpublican attack machine and 35 years of experience is what this country needs to effect real change. So, sometimes I get a little frustrated at that."

    Can't wait for the response to this. (none / 0) (#64)
    by oculus on Fri Jan 18, 2008 at 02:40:37 PM EST


    Parent
    Nope, that IS the topic (none / 0) (#68)
    by Rojas on Fri Jan 18, 2008 at 07:00:01 PM EST


    Parent
    I'm going to (none / 0) (#67)
    by Jgarza on Fri Jan 18, 2008 at 02:54:30 PM EST
    repost your link for you in case you get deleted.

    Update: I hate doing this on the wrong post, but it's necessary. To those Obama supporters who insist on making the strawman argument that I'm saying Obama will govern like Reagan, I suggest you read the post again.

    I'm saying that he advanced the Reagan Myth,

    So what values does he not hold? If you mention Reagan it must be in a negative context?
    I certainly hope that is not a core value of being a democrat.

    Obama's Straight Talk Express Takes A Detour | 71 comments (71 topical)

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