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Not Funding The Iraq Debacle

By Big Tent Democrat, Section War In Iraq
Posted on Tue Sep 04, 2007 at 04:14:34 PM EST
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Kos:

Heck, I'd be happy if just the Democrats would follow their words with action this Magical September. We don't need Republicans to follow suit.

Republicans need 60 votes in the Senate to pass any funding bills, while Democrats can single-handedly squash any efforts in the House. If Republicans don't compromise on a withdrawal timetable, there's no impetus to pass a funding bill.

And without funding, there's no war.

Way to make me look dumb, Kos. And shut me up quick. I thank you for it.

Kudos.

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    Not Funding The Iraq Debacle | 36 comments (36 topical)

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    heh (5.00 / 7) (#1)
    by taylormattd on Tue Sep 04, 2007 at 04:21:22 PM EST
    I just read markos' post and I was planning on coming over here and giving you the link, but as usual you've already seen it.

    Never been happier to look (5.00 / 11) (#2)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Sep 04, 2007 at 04:24:06 PM EST
    stupid in my life.

    Maybe we can start something on this now.

    Parent

    BTW (5.00 / 5) (#3)
    by taylormattd on Tue Sep 04, 2007 at 04:29:10 PM EST
    your post in which Glenn Greenwald commented was a wonderful discussion - I have been offline for the last couple of days and I just saw it. A truly engaging conversation, at least IMO.

    Parent
    My Take Exactly (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by squeaky on Tue Sep 04, 2007 at 04:32:26 PM EST
    A small price to pay for appearing wrong on Matt Bai top down theory. Actually, no offense intended to your illustrious blogger status, it is more like bottom up if it actually works, which is more along the lines of what you wrote.

    Parent
    Bottom up with strong direction. (5.00 / 2) (#6)
    by oculus on Tue Sep 04, 2007 at 04:34:13 PM EST


    Parent
    Come To Think Of It (5.00 / 2) (#16)
    by squeaky on Tue Sep 04, 2007 at 05:12:28 PM EST
    The Guardian piece now looks like a dare. A dare to prove you wrong. Nice.... Intended or not.

    Parent
    If you feel stupid (none / 0) (#26)
    by Demi Moaned on Tue Sep 04, 2007 at 11:27:14 PM EST
    ... I feel even stupider, because I don't see how this makes you look dumb.

    It seems to me he's finally saying something that boils down to what you've been saying for a long time.

    It must be something in the nuances that I'm missing.

    Parent

    Did you read the linked piece (none / 0) (#27)
    by oculus on Tue Sep 04, 2007 at 11:31:59 PM EST
    in the on line Guardian?

    Parent
    I missed the link before I commented (none / 0) (#28)
    by Demi Moaned on Tue Sep 04, 2007 at 11:37:16 PM EST
    Now I've read your article. This must be the passage you're referring to:
    Today the netroots faces a new challenge of avoiding being seen as a top-down driven movement. This month is a pivotal time in the fight to end the Iraq debacle. Yet organizations like MoveOn and netroots "leaders" like Matt Stoller and Chris Bowers are more interested in launching campaigns for the 2008 elections than in organizing to pressure today's Democrat-controlled congress to do all it can to end the Iraq war now, during the Bush presidency. I think that does not reflect the views of the "people power" the netroots is said to represent.

    Still don't see how that makes you look dumb.

    Parent
    I agree. (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 05, 2007 at 12:10:34 AM EST
    A sudden attack of modesty.

    Parent
    Good, it's about time (5.00 / 4) (#5)
    by Maryb2004 on Tue Sep 04, 2007 at 04:33:59 PM EST
    It would have been better if he'd added an action item for his readers.  You know .. turn them into activists.  

    How would that work exactly? (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by oculus on Tue Sep 04, 2007 at 04:35:16 PM EST


    Parent
    Tell them to call their (5.00 / 2) (#10)
    by Maryb2004 on Tue Sep 04, 2007 at 04:37:57 PM EST
    Democratic Senators and Congresspersons and give them this message?  

    It seems so obvious. But it has to be said.  


    Parent

    DKers seem most likely to act if (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by oculus on Tue Sep 04, 2007 at 04:40:54 PM EST
    their is a link to contribute $$.

    Parent
    just so know (none / 0) (#9)
    by ksh on Tue Sep 04, 2007 at 04:35:55 PM EST
    only hippies protest.

    Parent
    Yes (5.00 / 2) (#13)
    by Maryb2004 on Tue Sep 04, 2007 at 04:42:02 PM EST
    I remember :)

    If he advocated a protest I'd be sure that an alien had taken over his body.

    But advocating people to put together groups to call on and talk to their own representatives in person - how non-hippyish.  Even better if you can find some big donors to put into your group.

    Parent

    Who says you left DKos? (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by ksh on Tue Sep 04, 2007 at 04:34:17 PM EST
    If you did, you're still effortlessly haunting the place.

    Something happened to the FP (5.00 / 2) (#11)
    by oculus on Tue Sep 04, 2007 at 04:38:16 PM EST
    Sunday. Not sure what, but I'm really glad to see the 800 lb. elephant, per Maryb2004, throwing his/its weight in support of defunding.

    Parent
    Absolutely, this is good news (5.00 / 2) (#14)
    by andgarden on Tue Sep 04, 2007 at 05:06:32 PM EST


    kudos (5.00 / 2) (#15)
    by selise on Tue Sep 04, 2007 at 05:10:00 PM EST
    kudos to kos and to you, BTD. this is very good news.

    Please note: Talex is arguing Bush will (5.00 / 2) (#18)
    by oculus on Tue Sep 04, 2007 at 05:26:29 PM EST
    leave the troops in Iraq sans funding. Kos is not responding. Very nice.

    Holy Wow (5.00 / 2) (#36)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Sep 05, 2007 at 11:46:04 AM EST
    I'm way behind the curve here.  Been fighting an allergy driven migraine thing since last night.  I saw your post about Kos making you look stupid but honestly when I can't see straight very well I made an attempt to follow what you were talking about but ended up retiring to a feel good conversation at Docudrama because I was needing some feel good last night.  I'm thrilled about this.  Thank you Kos.

    If you believe that will happen... (1.00 / 0) (#19)
    by jarober on Tue Sep 04, 2007 at 06:04:12 PM EST
    If you believe that the Democrats will actually defund the war, you probably also believe in the tooth fairy.  It's not going to happen, period.  I'd be astonished if any bill with timetables passed, much less no bill at all.

    The point is to advocate. Certainly (5.00 / 3) (#20)
    by oculus on Tue Sep 04, 2007 at 06:28:46 PM EST
    won't happen w/o that. May happen w/it.

    Parent
    Exactly. If one does not (5.00 / 3) (#21)
    by TomP on Tue Sep 04, 2007 at 08:02:05 PM EST
    even try, one can never win.

    These voices of defeatism unintentionally serve a continued occupation.  

    We have to try.

    BTD, McJoan, and Barbin MD, to name a few, have worked very hard to keep the struggle against the war on the netroots alive in the face of defeatism.

    The only possible way is through funding cuts or caps. It may not work.  If we lose, we try again.  And try and try.

    Good job, Armando/BTD.

    Parent

    1. Primary Sell outs. 2. Do NOT be nice to (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by seabos84 on Tue Sep 04, 2007 at 08:44:18 PM EST
    sell outs.

    it is crap that we get more flys with honey than with vinegar - we aint' dealing with flys, we're dealing with adults who ran for the job of leader and who have the job of leader

    AND who are allowing fascists to turn this country into something like Brazil, Nigeria, or the Philipines, where hordes of desperately poor get to struggle daily to drink dirty water and live in shanties and die like flies. the fascists want that, and if you don't think so,

    wow.

    these Dem-O-Sell-Outs should have NO doubt that people are fuming mad AND are gonna primary then AND ain't gonna be nice to them until they start representing us bottom 80%, instead of hte f$$$ing sell out fake 'middle'.

    people have been nice to sell outs since Tip O'Neil, WTF has it accomplished?  jeesh.

    rmm.

    Parent

    jarober's rethug shill voice of defeatism (none / 0) (#41)
    by Edger on Fri Sep 07, 2007 at 05:56:21 AM EST
    intentionally serves a continued occupation.

    Parent
    The problem for you good folks (1.00 / 1) (#22)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Sep 04, 2007 at 08:23:16 PM EST
    is called "reality."

    If the Demos do not introduce a spending bill then Bush will merely go the media pointing out that the Demos are hurting the troops.

    Next year is election year.

    Yes, next year is an election year, (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by Compound F on Tue Sep 04, 2007 at 08:54:04 PM EST
    and Democrats can be punished for failing to cooperate with their constituency.  It is an option, painful as it may be.  So far, they have not distinguished themselves from Republicans, so it may not be more painful for us than it already is.  It would be memorably painful for them, I'm sure.

    Parent
    Next year is always election year (5.00 / 1) (#30)
    by pioneer111 on Wed Sep 05, 2007 at 12:33:11 AM EST
    That should never stop people from doing the right thing.  No more taxpayer money should be going to fill the coffers of Haliburton and no more of our young men and women should be sent to die, because someone may have a harder time being elected.

    That is immoral.  Who cares what Bush thinks.  If Democrats cannot defend ending the war then they deserve to lose.

    They need a backbone.  I like the French method, make the government afraid of the people and not the other way around.

    Well done BTD.

    Parent

    Ah yes. (1.00 / 0) (#38)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Sep 06, 2007 at 09:10:02 AM EST
    The French Revolution worked so well, oui??

    Parent
    Prediction (1.00 / 1) (#33)
    by Slado on Wed Sep 05, 2007 at 08:28:48 AM EST
    NYP

    Not going to happen BTD.  I think John P is right in his prediction.   We all know, right and left, what is coming.

    A mixed report and the predictable partisan reaction from congress.   The report will not be rosey enough to turn dems but not dire enough to turn republicans against the president.

    The dems have already proven that they view Iraq as a voting issue not an action issue.  They will rant and rave, threaten all sorts of action and ultimately do nothing.  Maybe they'll pass symbolic legistlation but it won't be important.

    What's funny is deep down I know you know this.  Doesn't that make you mad?  Will the grass roots demand that they're senators and congressman do something or will they swallow the political grandstanding yet again?   You hate Bush but at least he is consistent.  He wants to keep the war going so we can win.   What do the democrats want?

    Beg to differ.... (none / 0) (#35)
    by kdog on Wed Sep 05, 2007 at 09:03:15 AM EST
    Bush wants to keep the occupation rolling all right, but not to "win" anything....but because its a moneymaker for certain interests.

    Deep down I think you know this.

    Parent

    Nope (1.00 / 0) (#37)
    by Slado on Wed Sep 05, 2007 at 01:20:46 PM EST
    I don't.

    He's not that complicated a person.  This is the dilema with Bush Hatred Syndrome.  You wan't to believe he's a boob while also believing he's this great manipulator with tons of motives.

    He thinks we can win and it's the right thing to do.  Agree or disagree but dump all the conspiracy nonsense.

    It's the dems that can't define their motives.  Other then they hate Bush and everything he does.

    Parent

    No conspiracy brother.... (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by kdog on Thu Sep 06, 2007 at 09:58:51 AM EST
    It's common knowledge that Cheney and his cronies wanted to invade country since the first gulf war.  Why?  Economics.

    I believe he's a boob, the guys behind the boob are the manipulators.

    BTW...what is winning again exactly?  I've been waiting years for a straight answer.

    Parent

    Do we have 40+ (none / 0) (#25)
    by koshembos on Tue Sep 04, 2007 at 11:07:48 PM EST
    I am not sure there are 40+ votes against such a budget.

    Not Funding The Iraq Debacle | 36 comments (36 topical)

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