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Thursday Open Thread

A big thanks to TChris and Big Tent for posting while I'm in Madrid.

The big news here is the military crackdown in Burma (now called Myanmar)in which Buddhist monks are being beaten and arrested. Eight people have been killed by police firing weapons into crowds of protesters. A Japanese journalist was also killed.

CNN keeps reporting that since journalists aren't being granted entry, it is getting its reporting from citizen journalists.

I'm off to our opening reception and dinner so here's an open thread for those of you with other topics to discuss.

Plane reading: The new Rolling Stone has an oral history of Hunter S. Thompson's early years by those who knew him then. It's great reading and available online here.

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  • Display: Sort:
    We coulda... (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by desertswine on Thu Sep 27, 2007 at 12:37:24 PM EST
    bought out Saddam for a trifling billion, maybe even cheaper.

    Getting rid of him never was the point (5.00 / 1) (#2)
    by scribe on Thu Sep 27, 2007 at 01:16:23 PM EST
    of the exercise.  Getting his oil was.

    Look, the fact of the matter always has been that, in grand-strategic terms, the United States' government has acted toward Iraq as a dope-addicted (in this case, the dope is petroleum)mugger does toward a guy who's holding dope or money:  The other guy's got it, the junkie wants it, let's see who gets to walk away with it.

    Once you look at it that way, the irony of Bush's dry-drunk coke-head addict consciousness driving the country into a ditch is all the more charming - sort of like the old Mencken quote in which the Presidency is, year by year, inhabited by someone who ever more closely resembles the average American.  He's dressed up but not comfortable in his clothes, close-minded, petty, small, addicted, and rude.

    Just as the gross of Americans are.

    Lawyering lesson #27:  never trust a junkie(, regardless of the substance).  Learn to discern when they're high on whatever they use, and don't try to talk sense to them when they are.

    The second sentence, by the way, explains why no one with any control over anything wanted to listen to the anti-war side of the argument in 2002 or 2003 and, for that matter, why no one wants to listen to the warnings about mortgage debt now (or last year) - they're all too busy getting high or riding their buzz.  And they're surely not listening.

    Parent

    Jena 6 DA Reed Walters press conference (none / 0) (#3)
    by Aaron on Thu Sep 27, 2007 at 01:44:27 PM EST
    I just watched the press conference with Reed Walters, the district attorney prosecuting the Jena 6, he reveal himself for a genuine buffoon.

    He went on and on about Jesus intervening during the protest preventing catastrophe. A local Reverend called him on his remarks, and during an interview later stated that the DA was attempting to place Christ on the side of the police, and apparently the DA's office as well.

    DA won't challenge 'Jena 6' ruling

    "Why people do things, is not important to me" (Reed Walters).

    And people wonder why (none / 0) (#4)
    by scribe on Thu Sep 27, 2007 at 01:51:32 PM EST
    Southern rednecks (and their local lawyers) are the butt of jokes the punchlines of which revolve around "He's Stupid".


    Parent
    Are you serious? (none / 0) (#11)
    by kdog on Thu Sep 27, 2007 at 02:48:27 PM EST
    The DA started name dropping Jesus?  

    Does he have a clue who the guy was?

    Parent

    He needs all the help he can get. (none / 0) (#21)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Sep 28, 2007 at 08:25:04 AM EST
    He needs a new job..... (none / 0) (#24)
    by kdog on Fri Sep 28, 2007 at 12:03:28 PM EST
    maybe he should try preaching.  Get 'em out of the courtroom and onto a pulpit.

    Parent
    getting rid of Saddam (none / 0) (#6)
    by diogenes on Thu Sep 27, 2007 at 02:04:22 PM EST
    I grant that we're too wimpy to do the right thing for the right reason (depose the isolated extreme leader, rather than the typical bad leader, in countries like Sudan or Myanmar) unless there's oil involved.  
    Saddam's Iraq was the moral equivalent of Myanmar; why waste bandwidth complaining about Myanmar if you wish that Saddam were still in power in Iraq today?

    Actually, Myanmar has oil too, but China (none / 0) (#7)
    by oculus on Thu Sep 27, 2007 at 02:16:13 PM EST
    and Taiwan will apparently get the benefits, along with the Myanmar junta, of course.

    Parent
    Are you actually saying... (none / 0) (#8)
    by garyb50 on Thu Sep 27, 2007 at 02:21:30 PM EST
    that the USofA should be deposing every 'extreme' leader anywhere in the world? (and we're only NOT doing it because we're too WIMPY?)

    If so, I'm speechless in the face of such morally righteous (or whatever) idiocy.

    Parent

    Wishing we hadn't destroyed Iraq... (none / 0) (#9)
    by Dadler on Thu Sep 27, 2007 at 02:24:49 PM EST
    ...is perfectly consistent with supporting these monks and protesters in Myanmar attemtping to change their OWN country.  

    The same reasons that would be given for not invading a place like Burma, which has its own competing ethnic groups, are the same reasons one could give for not invading Iraq.  Also, the spectre of oil and other pilfered natural resouces plays very heavily in Myanmar.  As is usually the case, outside powers, from the west and east, are keeping this junta in power through greed for these resources.  Meddling, meddling, always meddling.  Will any of these nations ever have the chance to evolve on their own as we did?

    Sadly, the answer continues to be a resounding "No!"

    Parent

    Huh? (none / 0) (#10)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Sep 27, 2007 at 02:34:48 PM EST
    Meddling, meddling, always meddling.  Will any of these nations ever have the chance to evolve on their own as we did?
    A) We "evolved" with the meddling of the French, British, Spanish, etc. and 2) When we "evolved" it was impossible for nations to "meddle" to the extent that they can now.

    Back then, exactly as today, every nation/state/whatever "meddled" in every other nation/state/whatever's business to the maximum of it's ability to benefit itself.

    Parent

    You've got a point bro..... (none / 0) (#12)
    by kdog on Thu Sep 27, 2007 at 03:24:47 PM EST
    explains why the history of war is as long as the history of mankind.  No nation/state/whatever likes to be overly meddled with.  The British were overly meddling with the colonists, the colonists knocked their block off.

    imo, we undervalue the benefits of peace and justice, and overvalue the benefits of money and power.  Yeah we live high on the hog, but basically by the barrel of our gun, and that never ends well.  Just ask the British Empire, the Roman Empire...eventually somebody knocks your block off.  We're just hastening our eventual demise for short term money/power benefits.  

    Parent

    fwiw, "war" is believed to have been (none / 0) (#14)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Sep 27, 2007 at 03:48:33 PM EST
    "invented" at about the same time and in the same place as agriculture was invented.

    For the first time in history a piece of dirt was valuable enough to "war" over.

    And, due to agriculture, for the first time in history there were united populations large enough to "war" against each other.

    Guess where all this ag/war inventing took place? Yep. The Fertile Crescent, ie., Iraq, Turkey, Syria, Jordan, etc.

    I agree that we undervalue kumbaya, (where's Peaches these days?) but I think it's every living things nature to use it's power to the utmost of it's ability to benefit itself. W/o that nature, no living thing would have survived.

    What supposedly makes us different from the "animals" is the ability to consciously control ourselves and our "nature."

    I'm sure at some point some other power will knock "our" block off. And that power will ultimately get it's block knocked off, and so on, and so on...

    We can't stop the wind from blowing...

    Parent

    SUO (none / 0) (#15)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Sep 27, 2007 at 04:09:59 PM EST
    I think the NA's did a pretty good of fighting over hunting grounds...

    Parent
    origins of war.

    My point is that the theory I tend to hold is that war was "invented" in the Fertile Crescent.

    War being a prolonged state of violent and large scale conflict between two or more groups.

    Are you suggesting that it was invented by the NA's?

    Parent

    Nope (1.00 / 0) (#22)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Sep 28, 2007 at 08:28:35 AM EST
    just pointing out that it wasn't just the farmers...

    Actually I think it was the discovery of beer...

    One tribe started chanting, "Tastes Great!" and the tribe down the valley yelled back... "Less filling!"

    and the rest is history... ;-)

    Parent

    Ain't that the truth.... (none / 0) (#16)
    by kdog on Thu Sep 27, 2007 at 04:31:44 PM EST
    The wind is gonna blow man.  

    Makes sense that war as we know it started with agriculture, but I'd imagine before we killed each other over pieces of dirt we killed each other over a wooly mammoth carcass to drag back to the cave.

    No argument about survival instinct, you would think we'd have evolved a little more by now is all.  Enough to harness that instinct to where it doesn't become a detriment instead of a benefit.

    Peaches has been m.i.a. for awhile...hopefully not for good.

    Parent

    For sure we killed each other over food, (none / 0) (#18)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Sep 27, 2007 at 04:39:23 PM EST
    but I think "war" is something altogether different.

    Parent
    SUO (1.00 / 0) (#23)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Sep 28, 2007 at 08:32:35 AM EST
    If you want to define it as a dispute over a specific piece of land, I would agree.

    The NA's I mentioned were pretty disorganized and appear to have been in a long term migration pattern.

    Parent

    "evolving" (none / 0) (#13)
    by diogenes on Thu Sep 27, 2007 at 03:40:43 PM EST
    The totalitarian dictatorship is a creation of the twentieth century; it didn't evolve in Russia until Stalin died, it is becoming a dynasty in Cuba (45 years) North Korea(55 years) and Iraq (Saddam and his sons), and didn't peter out in Russia until the leaders got sick of it themselves.
    Tibet isn't exactly evolving either.
    You know that the Burmese junta isn't an "ethnic minority".  There will be strife to replace it, and the lesson learned from Iraq is to replace totalitarian brutal dictators rarely with authoritarian, somewhat less brutal dictators.  The British approach to Iraq of simply cutting off the head and leaving probably made more sense than nationbuilding, although at the time cynics on the left would have complained about how we were propping up authoritarian dictators.

    i hate to break the news to you, (5.00 / 0) (#20)
    by cpinva on Thu Sep 27, 2007 at 05:30:30 PM EST
    but russia was a totalitarian dictatorship under the tsars, for hundreds of years before marx/hegel/lenin/stalin. there have been totalitarian dictatorships (where do you think the concept of "divine right monarchy" came from?) since civilization began, and wars before that. war is, at its essence, predicated on economics; i want what you have, and i'm willing to kill you to get it.

    interestingly enough, there hasn't been that much change in the basic wants, in almost 10,000 years: land, raw materials and whatever else was around for the plundering.

    thus it has ever been, thus it will ever be.

    Parent

    Did Someone Mention Burma? (none / 0) (#19)
    by jonswift on Thu Sep 27, 2007 at 05:16:10 PM EST
    I'm a bit surprised that you would go out on a limb and break the apparent boycott by liberal blogs on coverage of Burma.
    http://jonswift.blogspot.com/2007/09/burma-schmurma.html