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A Life Lesson From the GOP

By TChris, Section Other Politics
Posted on Tue Jul 17, 2007 at 08:27:48 AM EST
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Another life lesson from the GOP:

[Rep. Richard] Baker took aim at critics who labeled [Sen. David] Vitter a hypocrite for promoting conservative views, talking about family values and advocating sexual abstinence at a time when he was in a touch with an alleged call girl service.

"If a man has values and standards, but does not live up to them, it does nothing to discredit the validity or those values and standards, and he is far preferable to those timid souls who, without values and standards, cannot fall short of them nor ever run the risk of being charged with hypocrisy," Baker said.

So it's more important to trumpet values that one's actions dishonor than it is to lead an honest life that doesn't hinge on "family values" rhetoric? Thanks for setting us straight, Rep. Baker.

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    A Life Lesson From the GOP | 89 comments (89 topical)

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    Golly... (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by aj12754 on Tue Jul 17, 2007 at 08:51:40 AM EST
    I wonder if there is any record of Baker making comments about Clinton's failure to live up to his values. I'll go check.

    Yep. (none / 0) (#12)
    by Edger on Tue Jul 17, 2007 at 10:26:29 AM EST
    Some current polls may suggest that people are turned off by the whole Clinton mess and don't care -- because the stock market is good, the Clinton spin machine is even better or other reasons. But that doesn't answer the question of whether President Clinton should be impeached and removed from office because he is morally unfit to govern.
    [-- David Vitter, Times-Picayune, 10/29/98]
    A Dope-Slap for David Vitter

    [ Parent ]
    What a shock... (none / 0) (#62)
    by aj12754 on Tue Jul 17, 2007 at 01:26:59 PM EST
    Vitter has a double standard.  The defining characteristic of the modern GOP politician. Thanks for finding the apt quote.

    [ Parent ]
    Heh. (none / 0) (#63)
    by Edger on Tue Jul 17, 2007 at 01:30:43 PM EST
    They sure have don a great job of "cornering" moral values.

    Now that they have the cornered they're stoning them to death.

    [ Parent ]

    Not Unsimilar Logic (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by squeaky on Tue Jul 17, 2007 at 09:46:29 AM EST
    Government auditors discovered something odd last year when they reviewed KBR Inc.'s annual cost estimate to provide support services for U.S. troops in Iraq. The contractor proposed charging $110 million for housing, food, water, laundry and other services on bases that had been shut down

    The GOP almost non-sequitur technique of garnering currency on a non existant, but marginally related issue.

    Squeaky loves strawmen. (1.00 / 1) (#16)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Jul 17, 2007 at 10:51:28 AM EST
    proposed

    to form or put forward a plan or intention

    Unless you can prove otherwise, I propose that KBR proposed prices for N number of bases. The government then didn't purchase (de facto delete) X number of bases that were closed and were to remain closed.

    Think of this as you going into Walmart to buy some underwear. They propose probably a thousand pairs. You will buy the ones you need/want.

    That is just reasonable and usual business practices.

    It is used so that the customer can see various cost scenarios associated with various plans.

    [ Parent ]

    hahahahahhaha (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by squeaky on Tue Jul 17, 2007 at 11:04:18 AM EST
    Strawman???? Once again PPJ shills us: he and the GOP is teaching us life lessons all the time.
    KBR is ppj's kind of company, honest, moral and never a cheat. Cheney is proud as KBR reflects on him, ppj and the GOP.  

    Thanks for the life lesson ppj.


    [ Parent ]

    squeaky (1.00 / 1) (#35)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Jul 17, 2007 at 11:39:12 AM EST
    It is obvious you know nothing about proposals, etc.

    But, your lack of business experience doesn't give you a license to make off the wall comments.

    [ Parent ]

    Apparently... (5.00 / 1) (#80)
    by aj12754 on Tue Jul 17, 2007 at 09:21:04 PM EST
    neither you nor the Pentagon has benefited from their business experience.  This is vendor management 101. It ain't rocket science ... you just have to be on the government's side instead of the vendor's.

    [ Parent ]
    PPJ claims to have worked in the telecom industry (none / 0) (#81)
    by Dark Avenger on Tue Jul 17, 2007 at 09:36:37 PM EST
    so it's obvious that his sympathies would be with the capitalists here, not the government.

    [ Parent ]
    aj12754 (none / 0) (#85)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 08:33:46 AM EST
    I can't figure who you're commenting to...

    Let us examine this.

    The government has asked for a proposal for X services to the provided for a list of bases.

    The vendor proposes to the list provided by the government.

    The government deletes those from the list that are now closed and the ones they intend to close and purchase the others.

    What's the problem?

    [ Parent ]

    Reasonable (5.00 / 0) (#30)
    by manys on Tue Jul 17, 2007 at 11:27:53 AM EST
    That is just reasonable and usual business practices.

    If the base was open, yes.

    [ Parent ]

    manys - No (1.00 / 1) (#38)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Jul 17, 2007 at 11:42:05 AM EST
    It was an itemized list. The government could select, or not select, depending on what they saw as their needs.

    Just like squeaky buying underwear. If they didn't need it, they wouldn't purchase.

    [ Parent ]

    OFF TOPIC TROLL POST (none / 0) (#19)
    by Sailor on Tue Jul 17, 2007 at 10:57:46 AM EST
    try to focus will ya?

    vittner is a total hypocrite and should resign just like his predecessor did.

    [ Parent ]

    sailor (1.00 / 1) (#33)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Jul 17, 2007 at 11:38:01 AM EST
    You're right. Saqueaky's comment was off topic. My bad for correcting him.

    As for Vitter, I cut him the same slack I did Clinton.

    If you don't like him, move to La and vote against him.

    [ Parent ]

    Link (none / 0) (#8)
    by squeaky on Tue Jul 17, 2007 at 09:48:02 AM EST
    Here via Juan Cole

    [ Parent ]
    Motives (5.00 / 0) (#46)
    by Al on Tue Jul 17, 2007 at 12:12:34 PM EST
    It's pretty obvious that Vitter made statements in favor of sexual abstinence to appeal to a certain constituency in order to get their votes. Vitter himself doesn't practice what he preaches.

    Therefore his sin is to have lied to the voters, seeking votes under false pretenses. First and foremost, the man is a liar and can't be trusted.

    Memo to voters: What matters to you about a politician is how he/she feels about taxes, not sex. If you're old enough to vote, you're old enough to decide about your own sex life. You don't need advice from strangers.

    Give these guys some slack (5.00 / 1) (#69)
    by jondee on Tue Jul 17, 2007 at 01:48:09 PM EST
    All they've had since they realized that they couldnt win without the R.R is the ability to play on primitive fears and neuroses pertaining to sex, swarthy evil people, "creeping socialism" (commies in the bushes) etc

    What Vitter, Tencredo, Karl Rove and Jimmy Swaggart most want people to abstain from is critical thought; it just emboldens our many enemies.

    what a crock! (5.00 / 2) (#79)
    by cpinva on Tue Jul 17, 2007 at 07:27:25 PM EST
    there is no comparison between sen. vitter's illegal acts, and pres. clinton's legal ones. last i checked, soliciting sex for pay is illegal in most of these here newnitedstatesofmurrica. consensual sex, between adults, for the pleasure of each other's company, is not.

    vitter is, at minimum, guilty of multiple misdemeanors, both in washington and new orleans. he should be charged with such.

    the only "crime" clinton was guilty of was of not telling anyone who asked to go screw themselves, about his relationship with monica lewinsky, including the grand jury and the judge. it wasn't any of their business, and had no bearing whatever on any criminal/civil action at hand.

    red herring alert! (none / 0) (#2)
    by cpinva on Tue Jul 17, 2007 at 09:00:22 AM EST
    no one questioned the validity of the values purportedly espoused by sen. vitter, they're certainly legitimate, in and of themselves. it's the screaming hypocrisy of his actions that are at issue, which rep. baker well knows, or should.

    nice try on the diversionary tactic though.

    I don't know cpinva.... (4.50 / 2) (#3)
    by kdog on Tue Jul 17, 2007 at 09:31:59 AM EST
    What's so valuable about abstinence?  To me, it seems to be a joyless way to live, and threatens the existence of the species.  Senator Vitter's actions imply he agrees, he just refuses to admit it.

    C'mon Vitter...be a man and admit sex is something to be valued.

    [ Parent ]

    Sex should be valued (none / 0) (#5)
    by Peaches on Tue Jul 17, 2007 at 09:38:11 AM EST
    in committed and monogamous relationships. I am not judging other people's lifestyles and I could really care less about who sleeps with who in celebrity and political circles. But, there is value and joy in committed relationships where sex is exclusive between two people especially when the two are raising a family.

    [ Parent ]
    Yes there is.... (5.00 / 2) (#9)
    by kdog on Tue Jul 17, 2007 at 09:51:02 AM EST
    value is committed, monogamous sexual relationships.

    But I also see value in non-committed, non-monogamous sexual relationships.  I've been in both types and valued them both.

    Why does there have to be something wrong, or unvaluable, with sharing the pleasures mother nature has given us in a non-traditional way?

    I too don't mean to judge others, but I'm having a hard time seeing the value in abstinence, unless you are an asexual person.

    [ Parent ]

    kdog (1.00 / 1) (#23)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Jul 17, 2007 at 11:08:33 AM EST
    The argument is that these activities harm society thru an increase in:

    Aids, STD's, unwanted pregancies, girls not graduating, etc.

    Your individual actions may not contribute, but overall the rates went up.

    The problem is complex and I know of no easy answers.

    The Left is now giving Vitter what the Right gave Clinton.

    I give Vitter the same pass I gave Clinton.

    [ Parent ]

    Stop Pushing GOP BS on US PPJ (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by squeaky on Tue Jul 17, 2007 at 11:19:09 AM EST
    The Left is now giving Vitter what the Right gave Clinton.

    This is patently false. Clinton did not go on any moral crusade like Vitter. At worst Clinton gave a f#ck you to the joke of a case about a blow job.

    Vitter on the other hand is an outright hypocrite, but you knew that. Lying and hypocracy for the party, must be a GOP thing.

    [ Parent ]

    Squeaky (1.00 / 1) (#45)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Jul 17, 2007 at 12:10:30 PM EST
    My point wasn't about what Clinton or Vitter did.

    It was real simple.

    Are you telling me that the Right didn't bash Clinton?? And enjoyed it?

    Are you telling me the Left isn't bashing Vitter?
    And enjoying it??

    lol...

    [ Parent ]

    Vitter bashes himself. (5.00 / 0) (#47)
    by Edger on Tue Jul 17, 2007 at 12:12:36 PM EST
    He uses your techniques. Want more rope, ppj?

    [ Parent ]
    Yes (5.00 / 0) (#48)
    by squeaky on Tue Jul 17, 2007 at 12:13:05 PM EST
    The left is bashing Vitter for being a hypocrite, not for his sexual practice.

    Big difference.

    [ Parent ]

    edger - squeaky Thanks for the laugh (1.00 / 1) (#52)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Jul 17, 2007 at 12:20:11 PM EST
    Hypocrite?

    I quote:

    "I did not have sex with that woman."

    William Jefferson Clinton

    [ Parent ]

    Twist Case (5.00 / 0) (#53)
    by squeaky on Tue Jul 17, 2007 at 12:22:37 PM EST
    Your command of english is from the spin dictonary. Not suprising for a shill.

    [ Parent ]
    You want to hold up (none / 0) (#55)
    by Edger on Tue Jul 17, 2007 at 12:29:22 PM EST
    Vitter as a shining example of moral values?

    Hahahaha. You'd better explain that to Wendy Vitter.

    FOX News, Wednesday, July 11, 2007

    NEW ORLEANS  --  New allegations tie Sen. David Vitter to a high-priced brothel in his hometown, one day after he publicly apologized for his connection to an alleged prostitution ring in Washington, D.C.

    On Monday, Vitter acknowledged being involved with the so-called D.C. Madam. A day later, new revelations linked him to a former madam in New Orleans and old allegations that he frequented a former prostitute resurfaced, further clouding his political future.

    Teach Your Children Well, and Keep Your Jesus Off My Penis

    Want more rope?

    [ Parent ]

    Maybe he can (none / 0) (#56)
    by Edger on Tue Jul 17, 2007 at 12:33:06 PM EST
    try pulling a Jimmy Swaggert, to get him off the hook?

    [ Parent ]
    Father Ritter (none / 0) (#57)
    by squeaky on Tue Jul 17, 2007 at 12:41:50 PM EST
    Or the Bakers may help him out too.

    [ Parent ]
    Aww... (none / 0) (#58)
    by Edger on Tue Jul 17, 2007 at 12:46:41 PM EST
    Coffee on the monitor. Again! Jeeze.

    Heh.

    [ Parent ]

    Try... (none / 0) (#64)
    by aj12754 on Tue Jul 17, 2007 at 01:30:43 PM EST
    to keep up.  Your example makes Clinton a liar ... he'd be a hypocrite if he'd said that and then gone on and one about the need for public policy to address private and consensual sexual relationships between adults.

    [ Parent ]
    aj (1.00 / 0) (#66)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Jul 17, 2007 at 01:39:24 PM EST
    It is amazing how edgeer and squeaky can take off in all dirctions by making things up...

    What I said about Vitter was:

    I give him the same slack I gave Clinton.

    I also noted that the Right enjoyed beating up on Clinton.

    The Left is enjoying beating up Vitter.

    squeaky and edger, like children, want to point and giggle..

    Contrast that with the comments between, kdog, Peaches and myself..

    [ Parent ]

    clinton didn't commit a crime ... (5.00 / 0) (#70)
    by Sailor on Tue Jul 17, 2007 at 02:03:24 PM EST
    ... when he got a consensual bj, he also didn't bash gay Americans, he also didn't run on a holier than thou platform.

    But I see it's just Sailor's Law in effect again. The wrongwingers index of desperation is the square of the number of time that they invoke clinton or kennedy.

    [ Parent ]

    Need more rope, ppj? (none / 0) (#71)
    by Edger on Tue Jul 17, 2007 at 02:13:31 PM EST
    No one has your back here. That feeling between your kidneys is just from all the boots helping you over the edge.

    Even Vitter would put as many miles between him and you as he could, if the two of you weren't joined at the hip.

    Look down. The ground is coming up fast.

    [ Parent ]

    edger (1.00 / 1) (#82)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Jul 17, 2007 at 10:06:40 PM EST
    That ground you see is because you are biting my ankle.

    ta ta

    [ Parent ]

    Still can't read for comprehension, PPJ? (none / 0) (#84)
    by Dark Avenger on Tue Jul 17, 2007 at 11:12:30 PM EST
    T!

    [ Parent ]
    hahhahaha (none / 0) (#72)
    by squeaky on Tue Jul 17, 2007 at 02:19:57 PM EST
    Bugs Bunny was just like Vitter too. Your comparison was equally apt, and your explanation/qualification believable only by five years and other GOP shills.

    [ Parent ]
    Some folks walk the walk (none / 0) (#68)
    by Dark Avenger on Tue Jul 17, 2007 at 01:46:53 PM EST
    and they couldn't be termed "Leftists".

    Link

    Arguing for "intellectual consistency," the Louisiana-based group 'Christian Conservatives for Reform' have called on Senator Vitter to resign following revelations of his numerous trysts with DC escorts and frequent patronage of brothels.

    The Rev. Grant Storms explained that, "when Bill Clinton fell...we said 'resign', when William Jefferson was indicted we said 'resign', now it's one of our people, and we need to be consistent and say, 'David, do the right thing and resign.'"



    [ Parent ]
    moral relativism is a peach (none / 0) (#83)
    by manys on Tue Jul 17, 2007 at 10:30:58 PM EST
    Are you telling me the Left isn't bashing Vitter?

    So far, the left has been much more graceful about it than the right was with Clinton. That said, neither activity is anybody's business. Vitter would disagree, but that's America.

    Here's Vitter in 1999, "...I think Livingston's stepping down makes a very powerful argument that Clinton should resign as well and move beyond this mess," The Honorable David Vitter indeed.

    [ Parent ]

    manys (none / 0) (#89)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Jul 19, 2007 at 11:06:35 AM EST
    And I said the same about Clinton...

    Again. My point is that both sides are busy beating up the other over the same act(s).

    [ Parent ]

    And one side is overloaded (none / 0) (#90)
    by jondee on Thu Jul 19, 2007 at 11:28:04 AM EST
    with moral majority, puritanical hypocrites and the other side isnt.

    [ Parent ]
    I understand the argument.... (none / 0) (#26)
    by kdog on Tue Jul 17, 2007 at 11:19:54 AM EST
    just not sure if we have the right balance of serving society and preserving individual liberty.

    Scoiety says I need to be prosecuted, society says Vitter and his madame need to be prosecuted.  

    I think society is wrong.

    [ Parent ]

    kdog (1.00 / 0) (#49)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Jul 17, 2007 at 12:17:03 PM EST
    By and large I agree that victimless crimes shouldn't be punished...

    But there is a point on how you get people, especially young people, to not do things that are destructive, or potentially destructive.

    I have too much of the libertarin in me to agree totally with "society," but I am enough of a realist to see that people, especially young people, are greatly influenced by what they see and hear.

    I confess to be conflicted over this.

    [ Parent ]

    I agree, Kdog (none / 0) (#39)
    by Peaches on Tue Jul 17, 2007 at 11:44:52 AM EST
    Don't get me wrong here, I am not in favor of prosecuting either person. I am in favor of citizens demanding a higher standard of an election official and voting his ass out though.

    [ Parent ]
    I got ya bro.... (none / 0) (#42)
    by kdog on Tue Jul 17, 2007 at 12:02:46 PM EST
    that was for our buddy Jim.

    The #1 standard we should hold our leaders too is honesty.  I don't think Vitter is being honest with himself, his wife, or his community.  In fact, the only person he has been honest with is the call girl, imo.

    [ Parent ]

    kdog (none / 0) (#50)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Jul 17, 2007 at 12:18:35 PM EST
     
    In fact, the only person he has been honest with is the call girl, imo.

    And look what that got him....

    ;-)

    [ Parent ]

    nope he lied to her too (none / 0) (#54)
    by Sailor on Tue Jul 17, 2007 at 12:25:01 PM EST
    when he said he wouldn't ... I mean ... her check's in the mail;-)_

    [ Parent ]
    Well, (none / 0) (#13)
    by Peaches on Tue Jul 17, 2007 at 10:27:56 AM EST
    There is value in sharing the pleasures mother nature has given us in a non-traditional way. And sometimes there are consequences that result from some alternatives to the traditional family.

    STD, unwanted pregnancies, and most importantly, the betrayal of trust between two people.

    There is nothing wrong with sex and there is nothing wrong with drug use, in and of themselves. And, I certainly am not in favor of government regulating either behavior. But, communities should make demands of individuals and hold individuals to standards for the benefit of the whole community, democracy and the development of individual character. Advocating the traditional family structure with sexual morals that demand that sexual behavior goes hand in hand with responsibility and respect is good for the community. The alternative that states any sexual activity is perfectly acceptable as long as it is legal amongst consenting adults, but does not accept that responsibility for the consequence or respect for the other individuals involved should be considered since one person's choice of how to get off is no one else's business is not a way to have a healthy community.

    [ Parent ]

    I believe in.... (5.00 / 2) (#17)
    by kdog on Tue Jul 17, 2007 at 10:57:02 AM EST
    personal responsibility wholeheartedly.  I don't believe in deceit or betrayal.  

    The relationship I am in now is non-committed and non-monogamous, me and my partner are both aware of and prefer these parameters.  We protect ourselves from STD's and unwanted pregnancy.  What else does the community have the right to demand from us?  

     

    [ Parent ]

    remember (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by nolo on Tue Jul 17, 2007 at 11:27:03 AM EST
    you're getting a lecture on personal responsibility from a guy who doesn't vaccinate his kids.

    [ Parent ]
    I never lecture Kdog, Nolo (none / 0) (#37)
    by Peaches on Tue Jul 17, 2007 at 11:40:44 AM EST
    Known him a long time and respect him a great deal. We have discussions on a variety of issues.

    I don't lecture you either, but I am willing to talk to you about vaccinations on another thread when they come up.

    I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't lecture me over it though. ;)

    [ Parent ]

    Nothing (none / 0) (#34)
    by Peaches on Tue Jul 17, 2007 at 11:38:19 AM EST
    I am happy for your relationship. If it works for you, this is fine. I think we agree on what the community should demand from you. But I wonder if a community that places the traditional family above other alternative family relationships is really a condemnation of your choice as long as the community as teaches a toleration of others peoples individual decisions.

    I am just not sure that your choice for your relationship should be the typical parameters for a family that a community would advocate for its members because it is much easier to advocate a position where two people are in committed monogamous relationships, imo.

    There is no reason for a community to judge your decision, but advocating relationships such as yours  could be difficult for the community to maintain standards of respect and responsibility, though not impossible. I can see sex becoming an issue of power as certain individuals attempt to exploit others using money or social status to gain sexual favors from others. Naturally, this happens in communities that favor traditional family set-ups too, but a standard that places the traditional family over other possibilities has an easier time of limiting this exploitation, in my opinion.

    I have some empathy for your views and I certainly favored them in the past, but marriage and children has caused me to rethink some issues. I am not certain that there are not other relationships and parameters than the traditional family for raising healthy children, but I see what my wife and I mean to my children and my commitment to her is as much about raising my children in the best way I know how as it is about what gives me the greatest pleasure at any particular moment in time.

    Americans, I think, in the majority favor the traditional family for raising children where the mother and father are in committed monogamous relationships and are living under the same roof. I think we can point to numerous studies suggesting that this leads to a more healthy environment for children than other family structures and most Americans recognize the potential damage that can result to the fabric of society from children who are raised outside of this structure.  In particular, I am speaking about the damage that divorce can inflict upon children, families and communities. This is reason enough for communities to favor traditional family structures without making judgements on individuals who choose to be in relationships outside of this structure.

    [ Parent ]

    Peaches.... (none / 0) (#41)
    by kdog on Tue Jul 17, 2007 at 11:58:37 AM EST
    as always, I enjoy our dialougue.

    Got another question, why must the community advocate one type of personal relationship over another?  I think part of the reason we have problems with divorce and broken families is because society pressures people into marriage, expects people to marry, when the truth is it is not for everybody.  Why can't the community stay out of the way of the most personal of our relationships, the sexual ones?

    I'm glad I grew up in a home with a mom and dad, but other kids might be better off with mom and dad apart if mom and dad really aren't right for each other, and only make the household miserable. All because the community pressured them into a marriage that probably shouldn't or wouldn't have happened without the community pressures advocated by guys like Vitter.

    [ Parent ]

    Good questions as usual, Kdog (none / 0) (#51)
    by Peaches on Tue Jul 17, 2007 at 12:19:12 PM EST
    And I don't have the perfect answer, because life is not perfect and there are many exceptions to rules and common sense we live by.

    The community is made up of individuals and a healthy community is one that is made up of individuals with sound character where personal responsibility and the respect of others (especially adversaries) are what defines sound character along with fortitude, workmanship, moral courage and honesty. Mostly, and certainly in our modern society, these character traits are in short supply. This means that traditional families are sometimes made up of individuals lacking sound character. Also, as you are a testament to, sometimes individuals who have these character traits choose to take part in relationships outside of this structure.

    A healthy community strives for ideals and attempts to reach these ideals. Perhaps, the traditional family should not be part of this ideal. I am not certain. My gut instinct tells me though, that it is a necessary condition, though not even close to sufficient, for developing the character traits required for individuals making up a healthy community capable of sustaining a democracy.

    [ Parent ]

    I Agree (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by squeaky on Tue Jul 17, 2007 at 09:56:27 AM EST
    Sex should be valued

    Cultures through out the ages also saw the wisdom in that which is why prostitution is considered the oldest profession.

    It should be legal. I hope Vitter works to that end after he is forced out of his seat.

    [ Parent ]

    Not only the oldest profesion... (5.00 / 1) (#78)
    by ironicname on Tue Jul 17, 2007 at 06:58:03 PM EST
    but in some cultures a religious obligation!  See temple prostitutes in the Fertile Cresent and Greece.
    That prostitution devalues the woman (or man) engaged in it and so justifies its illegality is a relatively new idea.  Our culture's ban on prostitution stems from christian beliefs about the evils of sex.

    [ Parent ]
    That would be something.... (none / 0) (#76)
    by kdog on Tue Jul 17, 2007 at 05:57:43 PM EST
    but the odds are better he gets into preachin'.

    [ Parent ]
    Hypocrisy? (none / 0) (#6)
    by jarober on Tue Jul 17, 2007 at 09:45:46 AM EST
    Speaking of Hypocrisy, what about Al Gore telling me how to live, while using 20X more energy than I do?  

    At least Vitter isn't trying to control my life.  I'm far, far more worried by the "do gooders" than I am by someone who hired a call girl.

    And no, hiring peasants in South America to plant trees is not "offsetting" Gore's lifestyle.  I'll take global warming seriously when the man doing the loudest yelling starts acting like he cares.

    Are you nuts? (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by kdog on Tue Jul 17, 2007 at 10:20:18 AM EST
    Vitter sure does want to control your life....he wants to tell you what you can smoke, who you can marry, what your kids learn in school, etc, etc, etc.

    I'm worried about the do-gooders who know whats best for us without asking us, and Vitter is one of 'em.

    [ Parent ]

    kdog - Over the top (1.00 / 1) (#18)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Jul 17, 2007 at 10:57:14 AM EST
    Vitter may want to tell you that you can't do dope.

    But it has been the Left that has led the charge on tobacco.

    I see no proof that Vitter wants to tell you who you can marry, etc.

    If you want to argue that the Right has nut cases, I'll accept that and raise you no transfat in New York City...

    [ Parent ]

    PPJ, unlike MJ (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by Dark Avenger on Tue Jul 17, 2007 at 11:36:01 AM EST
    tobacco has definite negative effects on the human body when constantly used, and AFAIK "The Left" is more than matched by those on the Right who would tell women what they can and can't do in the area of abortion as well as tell the rest of us what we can and cannot put into our bodies.

    Also, "The Left" isn't for banning tobacco outright or keeping adults from smoking where it won't affect others.  There are a few extreme places when bans against smoking go too far, but your attempt at making "The Left" something worse that what it is has failed again.  So sorry.

    BTW, it's all the Rights' fault because it was German scientists during the Nazi regime who first linked tobacco to cancer.<snark_tag_close>

    I see no proof that Vitter wants to tell you who you can marry, etc.

    Wikipedia on David Vitter

    Vitter believes strongly that marriage is a sacred vow between a man and a woman. In 2003, Vitter proposed to amend the U.S. Constitution to ban same sex marriages.[13] In 2004, he said, "This is a real outrage. The Hollywood left is redefining the most basic institution in human history...We need a U.S. Senator who will stand up for Louisiana values, not Massachusetts's values."[14] In June 2006, he said "I don't believe there's any issue that's more important than this one ... I think this debate is very healthy, and it's winning a lot of hearts and minds. I think we're going to show real progress."[15] In 2006, he told The Times-Picayune, "I'm a conservative who opposes radically redefining marriage, the most important social institution in human history."[16]

    In October 2005, at a Lafayette Parish Republican Executive Committee luncheon, Vitter compared gay marriage to hurricanes Katrina and Rita, which came through the same geographical areas. Vitter said "It's the crossroads where Katrina meets Rita. I always knew I was against same-sex unions." [17]

    Your comment is only true in a MS Tech Support way, he doesn't want to interfer with hetero marriages.

    You might want to inform yourself about the subject of a discussion before blathering baseless speculations that have no basis in reality.

    KOS just did the best thing that has ever been done for this dude...

    Too bad the dude wouldn't use you PPJ, or are you part of the marketing team, given your experience in business and sales?

    [ Parent ]

    DA Loves strawmen (1.00 / 1) (#44)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Jul 17, 2007 at 12:06:47 PM EST
    My comment said what the government wants regarding MJ..

    I said nothing about the effects of MJ and have often commented that I think the drug laws need to be rationalized..

    So what's your point with all the hyperbole? Trying to convinced the convinced?

    ;-)

    As for tobacco, repeat after me. The sun comes up in the east. The Left led the charge against tobacco.

    Both are true statements.

    In the interest of transparency I hasten to add that I don't smoke, chew, dip, snort or make any use of tobacco.

    As for Vitter, you again appear to be unable to read.

    I said that I give Vitter the same slack as I did Clinto.

    Now, if you want to go to gay marriage, I refer you to the numerous comments by me supporting the rights of Gays, including marriage... You will find them in the archives.

    Obviously I disagree with Vitter on that point.

    As I disagreed with Reid who said "I  believe marriage should be between a man and a woman."

    Thanks. Your assistance is always looked forward to.

    [ Parent ]

    Condescending and wrong as usual, PPJ (5.00 / 1) (#59)
    by Dark Avenger on Tue Jul 17, 2007 at 01:15:30 PM EST
    So what's your point with all the hyperbole? Trying to convinced the convinced?

    If you could show any hyperbole in my comment, it would be interesting, but then you do have trouble telling comments apart, don't cha?

    As for tobacco, repeat after me. The sun comes up in the east. The Left led the charge against tobacco.

    Both are true statements.

    No, the second can't be proved by repeating yourself, unless you include The Lung Association, the AMA(that bastion of Leftness except for 'socialized medicine', of course), healthcare professional associations, etc., as part of the Left.

    As for Vitter, you again appear to be unable to read.

    You made a statement about him that I proved wrong, so no wonder you resort to insult when I've disproven your uncarefully crafted point by inserting some reality.

    Your own reading skills can be critiqued on this thread here.:

    PPJ - granted there is a lot of dissemination from the leftists here, but aren't you twisting the facts somewhat in terms of Byrd using the "n" word? I watched the interview (both parts) and he doesn't use it except in a rerun clip from the incident in 2001. Ergo, he only made that mistake once (publicly)

    Glass houses and stone, PPJ, gotta keep that in mind when accusing others of problems you've displayed here in the past.

    I said that I give Vitter the same slack as I did Clinto.

    Except that Vitter condemned what Clinton did, so you would give a hypocrite some slack, and Clinton wasn't arrogant enough to say that God forgave him, as Vitter has in his case.

    Why am I not surprised, since he's a Repub?

    Nobody asked what your stand on gay marriage, BTW, but since you insist into turning your rants into "all about PPJoke", why am I not surprised?

    I think you'll also find that Reid says that gay marriage isn't for the federal government to determine, unlike Vitter.

    Sorry to ruin your day with facts PPJ, but then social liberals are noted for being unable to deal with real life.

    Thank you for confirming my long-held belief with an actual example here.

    T!

    [ Parent ]

    To be clear.... (none / 0) (#43)
    by kdog on Tue Jul 17, 2007 at 12:04:37 PM EST
    both right and left don't value liberty enough.

    Vitter would have a problem with me marrying a dude, I was referring to gay marriage there.

    [ Parent ]

    Who you gonna call (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by scarshapedstar on Tue Jul 17, 2007 at 10:29:34 AM EST
    Ctrl-C, Ctrl-V, and the Rent-a-Troll retreats to his underground lair...

    [ Parent ]
    From Kos (1.00 / 1) (#20)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Jul 17, 2007 at 10:59:35 AM EST
    (This is just an image.  No way am I driving traffic to this moron's site)

    Uh, duhhhh.. Google duhhhhh

    KOS just did the best thing that has ever been done for this dude...

    [ Parent ]

    Would have been (none / 0) (#22)
    by Edger on Tue Jul 17, 2007 at 11:07:59 AM EST
    much better to keep it hidden. Nobody needed more rope, right ppj?

    [ Parent ]
    edger (1.00 / 1) (#24)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Jul 17, 2007 at 11:11:17 AM EST
    I haven't tried to find the site, but yes, I'd say KOS has done some yeoman's work for the dude... unless it is a hoax.. who knows??

    [ Parent ]
    Sure (5.00 / 0) (#27)
    by Edger on Tue Jul 17, 2007 at 11:21:29 AM EST
    Could go both ways and make life tough for wingnut sites. Crunch the numbers and pray, ppj.

    I doubt they care who they put "blog warriors" to work for as long as they get paid.

    It's the principle of the thing, right ppj?

    Want more rope?

    [ Parent ]

    edfer (1.00 / 1) (#28)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Jul 17, 2007 at 11:25:10 AM EST
    BTW - Winning Campaigns can't be reached. Just times out... In the meantime, the image shown on KOS appears to be an ad for a PR firm called:

    Advantage  Consultants who is ran by Douglas Guetzloe

    It appears that KOS has made a mistake...

    [ Parent ]

    Sure. (none / 0) (#36)
    by Edger on Tue Jul 17, 2007 at 11:39:58 AM EST
    Denial works.

    [ Parent ]
    PPJ is just a little miffed, is all (5.00 / 1) (#60)
    by scarshapedstar on Tue Jul 17, 2007 at 01:17:48 PM EST
    Evidently it never occurred to him that he could be on the wingnut welfare rolls for all the time he's devoted to TL over the past 5 years or so.

    ...or is he? ;)

    [ Parent ]

    What make you so sure he hasnt been? (5.00 / 1) (#73)
    by jondee on Tue Jul 17, 2007 at 02:20:38 PM EST
    He certainly "stays on message" 24/7.

    [ Parent ]
    Probably wouldn't have helped him. (none / 0) (#61)
    by Edger on Tue Jul 17, 2007 at 01:24:06 PM EST
    It's probably performance based pay. Commissions on leads converted. ;-)

    [ Parent ]
    Great client list.... <retch> (none / 0) (#15)
    by Edger on Tue Jul 17, 2007 at 10:41:39 AM EST
        Motorola Corporation

        Boy Scouts of America

        Girl Scouts of America

        American Cancer Society

        The Gathering/USA

        Sheridan House

        For Giving Foundation

        Live the Dream Foundation

        Sportsmen's National Land Trust

        Florida Hospice & Palliative Care

        Mote Marine Laboratory

        The Florida Bar

        Friends of Florida's Waterways

        Harbor Branch Oceanographic Institute

        Adopt A Pet

        Sons of Confederate Veterans, Florida Division


    [ Parent ]

    Jokester Jarober (none / 0) (#31)
    by squeaky on Tue Jul 17, 2007 at 11:31:18 AM EST
    Speaking of Hypocrisy, what about Al Gore telling me how to live, while using 20X more energy than I do?  

    Gore is 1000 times more of a public servant than you. That fact puts you using 50X more energy than Gore, not including all your hot air.

    [ Parent ]

    Royalty (none / 0) (#65)
    by jarober on Tue Jul 17, 2007 at 01:34:02 PM EST
    Maybe you want royalty who have sole rights to "hunt in the forest".  I don't.

    [ Parent ]
    WTF (none / 0) (#67)
    by squeaky on Tue Jul 17, 2007 at 01:39:51 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    They're all elites (none / 0) (#75)
    by jondee on Tue Jul 17, 2007 at 05:52:47 PM EST
    who get to hunt in alot of forests that you dont, J.R. Smell the coffeee.

    Why is it that you guys only become aghast when it's "an elite" with liberal inclinations?

    [ Parent ]

    Squeaky (1.00 / 1) (#86)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 08:36:55 AM EST
    Algore is not a liberal. He is a member of the Far Left pushing an agenda based on false science.

    [ Parent ]
    That would only be funnier (none / 0) (#87)
    by Dark Avenger on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 09:18:14 AM EST
    if you could show that you know enough about how science works so that you could back up your statement with facts and reasoning.

    [ Parent ]
    OFF TOPIC TROLL POST (none / 0) (#88)
    by Sailor on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 09:19:44 AM EST
    It's about vittner, try to focus.

    [ Parent ]
    Only an ignoramous (none / 0) (#91)
    by jondee on Thu Jul 19, 2007 at 01:07:53 PM EST
    who got his knowledge of American political history from A.M talk radio would call Gore a member of "the far Left."

    The fact that The Aryan Brotherhood now admits gays dosnt make you a liberal, ppj.

    [ Parent ]

    Me either j-rob..... (none / 0) (#77)
    by kdog on Tue Jul 17, 2007 at 06:01:29 PM EST
    I take it you don't vote republican or democrat then as well.

    Who knew we were allies all this time! Power to the people brother!

    [ Parent ]

    Sexual puitanism (none / 0) (#74)
    by jondee on Tue Jul 17, 2007 at 02:28:55 PM EST
    dosnt qualify as "do-gooding" J.R?

    But, you're talking about do-gooding that might actually do some good, aren't you? I forgot, you guys are the "faith not works" folks. It's all gonna go hail anyway, mize well get it while you can..like Vitter.

    [ Parent ]

    A Life Lesson From the GOP | 89 comments (89 topical)

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