English Only Immigration, From The Left

By Big Tent Democrat, Section Other Politics
Posted on Fri Jun 08, 2007 at 10:44:52 AM EST
Tags: (all tags)

Share This: Digg!

Mark Kleiman writes:

I'd propose a simple rule: no one comes in who can't speak, read, and write English. I'm not a hard-core assimilationist . . .

You're not? I suppose Kleiman could argue that since there would be no need for language assimilation under Kleiman's plan. Being one of the wonky bloggers who we're supposed to take seriously, let's consider Kleiman's rationales for this departure from over a hundred years of immigration policy:

[T]he advantages, to immigrants and to the country, of having our citizens-to-be start out literate in the national language — which is also the world business language — seem to me obvious. As Net access becomes more and more nearly universal, so does access to the tools to learn English up to the rudimentary level which is all we ought to ask for. I'm reluctant to discriminate on the basis of social class, but I don't mind using intelligence and drive as filters.

That is some egregiously bad wonkery. Here's why.

As Net access becomes more and more universal . . .

Universal where?

[S]o does access to the tools to learn English up to the rudimentary level which is all we ought to ask for.

Ummm, see above.

I'm reluctant to discriminate on the basis of social class, but I don't mind using intelligence and drive as filters.

Except, Kleiman's proposal is almost wholly social class based filter. Who the heck is he kidding? But Kleiman does not lack for chutzpah. Afgter floating a proposal that makes Tancredo envious, he has the nerve to quote Lincoln on Know-Nothingism:

As Lincoln said in rejecting the Know-Nothings (or, as they called themselves, the "American Party") and its doctrine of reduced immigration from Ireland, tightened rules for naturalization, and denial of voting rights to non-citizens:
Our progress in degeneracy appears to me to be pretty rapid. As a nation we began by declaring that "All men are created equal." We now practically read it "All men are created equal, except Negroes." When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read "All are created equal, except Negroes and foreigners and Catholics." When it comes to this, I shall prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretense of loving liberty — to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocrisy.

If your proposal was a serious one Mr. Kleiman, then Lincoln could have been talking about you. Should I be surprised that serious wonly blogger Ezra Klein likes this idea? I am liking him less and less.

Is there this much of a nativist strain in the left wonky blogs? I better start paying attention to them a bit more. Cuz this stuff is pretty darn outrageous.

< Cheney Blocked Philbin Promotion | Gallup Misleads on Iraq Not Funding After a Date Certain Proposal >

Legal

Nothing on this site should be construed as legal advice. TalkLeft does not give legal advice.

TalkLeft is not responsible for and often disagrees with material posted in the comments section. Read at your own risk.

English Only Immigration, From The Left | 25 comments (25 topical)

Readers Must Login or Create an Account to Comment

Wow, that is stupid (none / 0) (#1)
by andgarden on Fri Jun 08, 2007 at 10:49:55 AM EST

Is is really so crazy to say that the "boat" isn't even close to full, and that more immigrants--even unskilled ones--are good to have around? Philadelphia has lost about 500,000 people since, I think, the 1970s; we could easily take more.

I'm waking up to an unsavory fact (none / 0) (#2)
by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Jun 08, 2007 at 10:53:05 AM EST

The union based wonky bloggers are selling nativism on immigration.

I thought it was the GOP who had this problem exclusively.

I see I was badly mistaken.


How shortsighted of them (none / 0) (#3)
by andgarden on Fri Jun 08, 2007 at 11:00:26 AM EST

I'm a few years away from a labor history class, but , IIRC, the original AFL-CIO merger proves that unions and immigration are compatible. I like unions and immigrants. I thought that was the Democratic position?


Well (none / 0) (#4)
by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Jun 08, 2007 at 11:01:55 AM EST

The guest worker stuff is the problem for them I guess. I don;t get it.

But Kleiman wrote what he wrote and Klein bought it. So you tell me? What am I to think?


Guest Workers (5.00 / 1) (#15)
by RustedView on Fri Jun 08, 2007 at 01:05:48 PM EST

I think what you will find in opposition to a guest worker program is that puts those workers in an inherently subservient position. As I understand it, the guest worker provision in what appears to be a now dead bill would have required a person to maintain a job.

That, as has been seen even in H1-B cases can lead to scare tactics and threats of deportation for actually standing up for your rights. After all, they just fire you and you are sent back.

I wouldn't have a problem with free and open "floodgates" approach, so long as we can guarantee that work isn't a condition of immigration, it places too much power in the hands of employers.


: I can understand that (none / 0) (#16)
by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Jun 08, 2007 at 01:08:44 PM EST

I can NOt understand Kleiman's proposal.

I don't like the guest worker program (none / 0) (#5)
by andgarden on Fri Jun 08, 2007 at 11:05:02 AM EST

so much myself. I actually lean toward "opening the floodgates," but I'd naively thought that was just another example of me being an idiot liberal.


: Its being a realist.... (none / 0) (#22)
by kdog on Fri Jun 08, 2007 at 05:16:12 PM EST

a humane realist.
We can't control the gates, we can only monitor them. If we go with open borders (gasp!), and bring peoples movements above ground, I think we can better monitor the gates.

OMG (none / 0) (#11)
by HeadScratcher on Fri Jun 08, 2007 at 12:38:17 PM EST

You admitted to making a mistake!!!

Satan must be shivering...


silly (none / 0) (#12)
by HeadScratcher on Fri Jun 08, 2007 at 12:40:44 PM EST

The U.S. has plenty of space (Wyoming, the Dakotas, Montana, Alaska, etc...) however it's a matter of resources. Things like jobs, schools, hospitals, roads, sanitation, etc...

I'm all for LEGAL immigration which should be an orderly process.


: And my point is that (none / 0) (#13)
by andgarden on Fri Jun 08, 2007 at 12:49:02 PM EST

we have plenty of everything you name available. Limited restrictions on immigration only enriched us before 1925.

andgarden (none / 0) (#24)
by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jun 09, 2007 at 08:29:51 AM EST

And where do you think those people went??

The vast majority went to the burbs.


Perhaps Kleiman thinks the tubes are english only? (none / 0) (#6)
by jerry on Fri Jun 08, 2007 at 11:29:50 AM EST

Ignoring for the moment BTD's question of how universal net access is, what does Kleiman mean by this?

Someone should show him all those pages in Spanish, Russian, Chinese, Japanese, .... It's not clear to me that any new immigrant class is going to have good English language skills (speaking skills especially) because of the t00bs.

proper English (none / 0) (#7)
by Joe Bob on Fri Jun 08, 2007 at 11:58:06 AM EST

Plenty of good ol' Americans graduate from (or drop out of) our public schools without being able to read, write and speak proper English. Sure, they can communicate, but they're not speaking the 'world business language.'

: Which is why California high schoolers must (none / 0) (#14)
by oculus on Fri Jun 08, 2007 at 12:51:36 PM EST

pass an "exit exam" before they can graduate. Huh?

Thanks for this (none / 0) (#8)
by LonewackoDotCom on Fri Jun 08, 2007 at 12:27:22 PM EST

I've known that Kleiman is sleazy for a while now, so it's great to see him being turned on.

However, he's right in this case (only).

In fact, one will note this:

Applicants for naturalization must be able to read, write, speak, and understand words in ordinary usage in the English language.

: No (none / 0) (#9)
by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Jun 08, 2007 at 12:34:29 PM EST

That is for becoming a citizen, not for immigrating into the country.
That is he is trying to impose citizenship requirements for immigration requirements.

According to the California Constitution, (none / 0) (#10)
by oculus on Fri Jun 08, 2007 at 12:36:58 PM EST

English is the official language of California. However, in the years after passage of Proposition 227, I have tutored kids who started kindergarten speaking only Spanish. Their kindergarten and first grade classes are taught in Spanish. But--the kids I've helped are truly bilingual and read very well in English.

Univision... (none / 0) (#17)
by kdog on Fri Jun 08, 2007 at 01:10:41 PM EST

is holding presidential debates en espanol.

That should get a boatload of panties in a bunch...I wonder if any of the Republicans will even participate?

Intelligence, Drive? (none / 0) (#18)
by squeaky on Fri Jun 08, 2007 at 02:04:45 PM EST

Just give them all Voice Recognition Hand Held translators. End of story.

Or is that too luxurious?

Esperanto (none / 0) (#19)
by chemoelectric on Fri Jun 08, 2007 at 03:33:00 PM EST

Itâ€<sup>TM</sup>s partly national-language-discriminatory stuff like this that drives people like me to favor a nationality-neutral language for the default second language. There is no other good way around the language gap, if even 'liberals' become chauvinists when it comes to their national language.

I doubt, though I may be wrong, that general teaching of Esperanto as an auxiliary language would result in a similar attitude of discrimination against people who couldn't speak Esperanto, while it would make the English-discriminators appear to be using the cover of 'English is the universal second language' to express their otherwise latent and not very liberal chauvinism.

: d'oh (none / 0) (#20)
by chemoelectric on Fri Jun 08, 2007 at 03:33:55 PM EST

The first word should be 'it's'. I hate when sites can't handle UTF-8.

Wat about the impact that (none / 0) (#21)
by Electa on Fri Jun 08, 2007 at 03:48:35 PM EST

these illegals are having on inner city communities and on other minorities? It makes me cringe everytime I hear the lame duck argument that illegals are doing jobs that Americans don't want. Maybe that argument holds true in agri-business but I doubt if that's the case in the construction, landscaping and other industries that have traditionally employed Blacks.

Since the 80s unemployment among Blacks have increased being replaced with Latinos. The only labor markets that have increased among Blacks has been in the Prison Industrial Complex and UNICOR. In 2005, Latino businesses boasted 252 billion $$$$ in revenues. Tell me please what minority group wouldn't want to earn contracts for $252 Billion. I'm waiting on a study that measures the number of non-hispanic minorities that are hired by Latino companies.

Anyone who thinks he can measure intelligence (none / 0) (#23)
by janinsanfran on Fri Jun 08, 2007 at 06:59:47 PM EST

has proved his own stupidity.

: Who's talking about (none / 0) (#25)
by Electa on Sun Jun 10, 2007 at 09:53:22 AM EST

measuring intellect although I guess that's why some folk work to achieve higher learning? Measuring disparities, on the other hand, is a necessary tool for identifying and eroding injustices. Of course, some may turn a blind eye to the outcomes although they cry Liberalism.