home

Wednesday Open Thread

I try to do an open thread on Tuesdays, but I ended up being online all day and night because of Scooter Libby's sentencing. So, I'm going to be at work today, and as a heads up, I'll be on the road starting Thursday until next week. We'll try to keep the site going, but here's a place for you to discuss what's of import to you, regardless of whether me, Big Tent, TChris or LNILR have mentioned it.

< Will Scooter Libby Get an Appeal Bond? | Are We Safer Now? >
  • The Online Magazine with Liberal coverage of crime-related political and injustice news

  • Contribute To TalkLeft


  • Display: Sort:
    Marines move to discharge protesting Iraq vet (5.00 / 2) (#7)
    by Sailor on Wed Jun 06, 2007 at 08:57:32 AM EST
    A U.S. military disciplinary panel on Monday recommended that a decorated combat Marine be involuntarily discharged after he joined an anti-war demonstration and spoke out against the Iraq war.

    How did this happen? As IRR he's not subject to the UCMJ:

    Members of the IRR are only subject to the UCMJ under the following circumstances:
    If called to active duty (AD).

    While on inactive duty training (IDT), including muster duty.

    If made the subject of Article 15 or Article 30 proceedings, and called to active duty for the purpose of dealing with these proceedings (e.g. trial by court-martial).



    I like him, he's a sassy booger (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Jun 06, 2007 at 09:55:22 AM EST
    complete with USMC tattoos.  Sorry in advance for momentarily objectifying men but his abs don't hurt my eyes either.

    Parent
    sailor - Assuming that you are correct... (none / 0) (#9)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Jun 06, 2007 at 09:16:11 AM EST
    Seems pretty simple.

    1. They recall him.

    2. They discharge him.

    3. They can probably use the Marines equivalent to what we in Naval Avaiation called "Captain's Mast" for disciple. But, it you want him to have a CM, works for me.


    Parent
    Seems pretty simple (5.00 / 2) (#14)
    by Repack Rider on Wed Jun 06, 2007 at 09:49:30 AM EST
    The Navy/Marines should cut their PR losses and stop looking like fools by pursuing this.  If they don't like his message, why are they amplifying it and looking anti-American by doing so?

    This is no way to inspire anyone to enlist.


    Parent

    He didn't violate the UCMJ ... (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by Sailor on Wed Jun 06, 2007 at 10:42:49 AM EST
    ... because he wasn't subject to the UCMJ until the hearing ... even the judges agreed he wasn't subject.
    The case hinged on military regulations that prohibit active duty troops from wearing their uniforms during political demonstrations. Kokesh argued that he wasn't subject to regulations in the Uniform Code of Military Justice because of his membership in the Individual Ready Reserves, rather than the active duty Marines, and the Marine panel agreed he wasn't subject to those regulations.

    bush constantly uses the troops as props, which is illegal. This guy wasn't a troop, was only wearing unmarked camos that anyone can pick up, and wasn't subject to the UCMJ.

    But you are well known for advocating suppression of free speech so your attitude is just SOP for you.

    Parent

    Sailor (1.00 / 1) (#36)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Jun 06, 2007 at 11:53:28 AM EST
    Let me see... I describe how I think the Marines can discharge this guy, and you make an unproven and unconnected claim.

    Seems like YOU are the one attacking free speech.

    Parent

    hahahahah (5.00 / 2) (#40)
    by squeaky on Wed Jun 06, 2007 at 12:02:58 PM EST
    attacking ppj's innane points which are almost always wrong, now equals attacking free speech.

    hahahhahaha

    What an ego.

    Parent

    Cute little thing, isn't it? (5.00 / 1) (#42)
    by Edger on Wed Jun 06, 2007 at 12:05:08 PM EST
    You mean like edger does?? (5.00 / 1) (#45)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Jun 06, 2007 at 12:16:57 PM EST
    Do we offer them respect? Absolutely not. We do our best to marginalize and get rid of them.


    Parent
    WTF (5.00 / 1) (#48)
    by squeaky on Wed Jun 06, 2007 at 12:20:04 PM EST
    Does that have to do with free speech?

    Edgar's quote has to do with politics, if that is too hard a concept for you to get your head around think sports.

    Parent

    squeaky - catch a clue (1.00 / 1) (#53)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Jun 06, 2007 at 12:31:13 PM EST
    I made a comment about how/what the Marines could do.

    I said nothing about speech.

    Sailor jumps in and says I'm against free speech..

    Which, I guess is supposed to marginalize me on one hand and cause me to not speak freely on the other.

    Edger wrote:


    Do we offer them respect? Absolutely not. We do our best to marginalize and get rid of them.

    BTW - Of course the comment is about politics... the whole string is about politics.

    Parent

    Catch this. It's a clue. (5.00 / 1) (#54)
    by Edger on Wed Jun 06, 2007 at 12:37:50 PM EST
    What causes your marginalization is your speaking freely... of thinking.

    Parent
    Edger (none / 0) (#75)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Jun 06, 2007 at 07:17:20 PM EST
    So you admit that all must agree with you...

    That's not free speech.

    And you know it isn't.

    And you don't want it.

    Parent

    hahahahah (none / 0) (#77)
    by squeaky on Wed Jun 06, 2007 at 07:25:50 PM EST
    Not being interested in what morons have to say,  is not remotely akin to being against the right of free speech.

    Parent
    Free Speech (5.00 / 1) (#56)
    by squeaky on Wed Jun 06, 2007 at 12:44:25 PM EST
    Sailor was correctly pointing out that Kokesh was asserting his right to free speech and that there was no conflict with his obligation to the Marines.

    You argue that Sailor is being hypocritical because he is attacking your disinformation. Arguing, marganalizing, and getting rid of idiots by either shutting them up through effective argument or voting them out of office is in no way attacking the Right of Free Speech.  

    But then you always love to mix your metaphors and use others quotes out of context. It is the ppj trademark that makes you look none too bright.  

    Parent

    Squeaky (none / 0) (#76)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Jun 06, 2007 at 07:21:21 PM EST
    No.

    I had said nothing about his right to free speech.

    Sailor wrote:

    But you are well known for advocating suppression of free speech so your attitude is just SOP for you.

    That's just a personal attack based on an unsupported claim. It is in fact, a smear.

    And you evidently believe that it is okay to attack someone just because you disagree with what they write.

    That is just so, well, just so.....Squeaky.

    Parent

    OFF TOPIC PERSONAL ATTACK (none / 0) (#70)
    by Sailor on Wed Jun 06, 2007 at 06:07:07 PM EST
    Or squeaky does? (1.00 / 1) (#47)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Jun 06, 2007 at 12:19:29 PM EST
    I asked:

    So because Rove is doing wrong, it is okay for you to do wrong?

    Squeaky replied:

    I have no problem with alleging that Rove's grandparents were Nazi's. Even if they were not, he uses Goebbels' propaganda techniques as a bible and may as well be a born and bred Nazi.

    Yep. You're a guy that we can trust.

    Parent

    Your Favorite Subject (5.00 / 1) (#51)
    by squeaky on Wed Jun 06, 2007 at 12:25:50 PM EST
    Is defending your hero Rove. And your second favorite topic is shooting looters.
    Re: Murder or Treatment? (none / 0) (#57)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 11:42:52 AM EST
    .....Killing looters, good. Killing medical patients, bad.


    Parent
    yet another OFF TOPIC PERSONAL ATTACK (none / 0) (#71)
    by Sailor on Wed Jun 06, 2007 at 06:08:09 PM EST
    Sailor (none / 0) (#80)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Jun 06, 2007 at 08:23:52 PM EST
    Would you please quit calling squeaky down.

    Parent
    via truthout (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by Edger on Wed Jun 06, 2007 at 09:28:16 AM EST
    Iraqi Lawmakers Pass Resolution That May Force End of Occupation This Year
    By Raed Jarrar and Joshua Holland, AlterNet,  Tuesday 05 June 2007
    While Washington lawmakers play procedural games with an out-of-control executive branch, Iraqi legislators are working to bring an end to the occupation of their country.
    ...
    The parliament today passed a binding resolution that will guarantee lawmakers an opportunity to block the extension of the UN mandate under which coalition troops now remain in Iraq when it comes up for renewal in December. Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki, whose cabinet is dominated by Iraqi separatists, may veto the measure.

    The law requires that any future extensions of the mandate, which have previously been made by Iraq's Prime Minister, be approved by the parliament. It is an enormous development; lawmakers reached in Baghdad today said that they do in fact plan on blocking the extension of the coalition's mandate when it comes up for renewal six months from now.

    Rubaie, the head of Al-Sadr bloc in Iraq's Council of Representatives, said, "this new binding resolution will prevent the government from renewing the UN mandate without the parliament's permission. They'll need to come back to us by the end of the year, and we will definitely refuse to extend the UN mandate without conditions." Rubaie added: "there will be no such a thing as a blank check for renewing the UN mandate anymore, any renewal will be attached to a timetable for a complete withdrawal."

    Without the cover of the UN mandate, the continued presence of coalition troops in Iraq would become, in law as in fact, an armed occupation...



    As one poster at (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by Edger on Wed Jun 06, 2007 at 11:17:02 AM EST
    OOIBC put it:
    Prime Minister Maliki could be a dead man - literally, not figuratively - if he vetoes this.


    Parent
    I think I'm going to go think some clean (5.00 / 1) (#61)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Jun 06, 2007 at 01:15:26 PM EST
    Lotus thoughts now.  Have missed you mucho.  Rebuilt an old clock with my husband while I was gone finding a scrap of sanity.  It was in the shed of the house we bought here and it sat there for two years still.  Before throwing it away we did some investigating and found out it was made in 1890 and that sort of changed our opinion about throwing it away.  My husband put new springs in it, built a new bell housing out of some magnolia branches that we had trimmed and sat in a pile long enough to cure.  I refinished the clock housing.  Waiting for a new bezel for it and I will post some pictures I guess since so many here did what they could to add to my sanity in the past when it was in short supply.  Don't know if sanity will return anytime soon but there must be lots of old things down here that need me ;)

    Parent
    Have good day! (none / 0) (#65)
    by Edger on Wed Jun 06, 2007 at 02:58:55 PM EST
    edger (1.00 / 1) (#50)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Jun 06, 2007 at 12:25:14 PM EST
    Rubaie, the head of Al-Sadr bloc ..........

    and we will definitely refuse to extend the UN mandate without conditions."

    Looks definite to me... (sarcasm alert for squeaky and repack)

    Parent

    Rubaie, the head of Al-Sadr bloc .......... (none / 0) (#60)
    by Edger on Wed Jun 06, 2007 at 01:13:14 PM EST
    and we will definitely refuse to extend the UN mandate without conditions."
    ...
    any renewal will be attached to a timetable for a complete withdrawal


    Parent
    Life Under an Abaya (5.00 / 1) (#67)
    by squeaky on Wed Jun 06, 2007 at 04:33:56 PM EST
    From Megan K. Stack, LA Times:
    I'm leaving the Middle East now, closing up years spent covering the fighting and fallout that have swept the region since Sept. 11. Of all the strange, scary and joyful experiences of the past years, my time covering Saudi Arabia remains among the most jarring.

    I spent my days in Saudi Arabia struggling unhappily between a lifetime of being taught to respect foreign cultures and the realization that this culture judged me a lesser being. I tried to draw parallels: If I went to South Africa during apartheid, would I feel compelled to be polite?

    Well worth a read, via War & Piece

    Squeaky (1.00 / 0) (#81)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Jun 06, 2007 at 08:25:35 PM EST
    If she thinks it's bad now.....

    Parent
    Bad Now???? (none / 0) (#88)
    by squeaky on Wed Jun 06, 2007 at 10:11:27 PM EST
    The Saudis set the standard. They are your buddies, politically speaking.

    Parent
    From Larisa (at-Largely) (5.00 / 1) (#100)
    by Edger on Fri Jun 08, 2007 at 09:35:03 AM EST
    Real Christianity in action
    (h/t to Donsu): Want to see what real Christianity looks like?
    "Two Roman Catholic priests, Jesuit Fr. Steve Kelly and Franciscan Fr. Louie Vitale, are willing to go to prison to expose the fact that young soldiers at Fort Huachuca are being trained to torture. Further, one of those young soldiers has already committed suicide after going into the prisoners' cages as an interrogator in northern Iraq.

    At the time of their arrest, Kelly, 58, and Vitale, 74, sought to deliver a letter to the military commander at Fort Huachuca. When they were halted, they knelt in prayer and were arrested.

    This case, however, is not just about two priests charged with trespass. It is not just about Fort Huachuca.

    These priests are armed with a message about the proliferation of U.S. torture, secret prisons, depleted uranium and prisoners held in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba who are never charged. It is about torture and the United States violation of the Geneva Conventions."

    Perhaps the conservatives who are busy clamoring for Libby to be pardoned might spare a few moments to protest this arrest? Or does moral outrage require a letter of support from the likes of Henry Kissinger first?

    Wikipedia:
    In addition to the US Army Intelligence Center, Fort Huachuca is the home of the 111th Military Intelligence Brigade, which conducts Military Intelligence (MI) MOS-related training for the Army, Air Force, Navy, and Marines. The Military Intelligence Officer Basic Leadership Course Phase Three (MIBOLCIII), Military Intelligence Captain's Career Course (MICCC), and Warrant Officer Basic and Advanced Courses are also taught on the installation.


    Even the Nazis protected the Louvre. (5.00 / 0) (#101)
    by Edger on Fri Jun 08, 2007 at 07:34:23 PM EST
    In Iraq's four-year looting frenzy, the allies have become the vandals
    Simon Jenkins, Friday June 8, 2007, The Guardian

    British and American collusion in the pillaging of Iraq's heritage is a scandal that will outlive any passing conflict
    ................................................
    Fly into the American air base of Tallil outside Nasiriya in central Iraq and the flight path is over the great ziggurat of Ur, reputedly the earliest city on earth. Seen from the base in the desert haze or the sand-filled gloom of dusk, the structure is indistinguishable from the mounds of fuel dumps, stores and hangars. Ur is safe within the base compound. But its walls are pockmarked with wartime shrapnel and a blockhouse is being built over an adjacent archaeological site. When the head of Iraq's supposedly sovereign board of antiquities and heritage, Abbas al-Hussaini, tried to inspect the site recently, the Americans refused him access to his own most important monument.

    Yesterday Hussaini reported to the British Museum on his struggles to protect his work in a state of anarchy. It was a heart breaking presentation. Under Saddam you were likely to be tortured and shot if you let someone steal an antiquity; in today's Iraq you are likely to be tortured and shot if you don't. The tragic fate of the national museum in Baghdad in April 2003 was as if federal troops had invaded New York city, sacked the police and told the criminal community that the Metropolitan was at their disposal. The local tank commander was told specifically not to protect the museum for a full two weeks after the invasion. Even the Nazis protected the Louvre.
    ...
    It is abundantly clear that the Americans and British are not protecting Iraq's historic sites. All foreign archaeologists have had to leave. Troops are doing nothing to prevent the "farming" of known antiquities. This is in direct contravention of the Geneva Convention that an occupying army should "use all means within its power" to guard the cultural heritage of a defeated state.
    ...
    And we had the cheek to call the Taliban vandals.



    Erasure Is (5.00 / 1) (#102)
    by squeaky on Fri Jun 08, 2007 at 08:32:00 PM EST
    Part of the strategy to westernize and christianize all the arabs. Steal or destroy their historic stuff and then call them savages.

    Parent
    Yes, I know (5.00 / 0) (#103)
    by Edger on Fri Jun 08, 2007 at 08:36:47 PM EST
    But you'd think that even as crazy as these people are that there would at least be a few that would make some effort to avoid the destruction of what are probably the most valuable cultural artifacts in the history of the world.

    This is just plain disgusting.

    Parent

    I don't mean valuable in dollars. (none / 0) (#104)
    by Edger on Fri Jun 08, 2007 at 08:50:17 PM EST
    You're one of the few here left who I think knows that.

    Parent
    Oh (none / 0) (#105)
    by squeaky on Fri Jun 08, 2007 at 09:30:41 PM EST
    ...effort to avoid the destruction of what are probably the most valuable cultural artifacts in the history of the world.
    Don't worry they are cashing in on it. They are not stupid.

    Parent
    Of course they are. (none / 0) (#106)
    by Edger on Fri Jun 08, 2007 at 09:38:40 PM EST
    They can't see any other value in it. They don't understand how impoverished they are.

    Parent
    Corruption (1.00 / 0) (#86)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Jun 06, 2007 at 09:56:04 PM EST
    InfoUSA

    Next time any of my dear friends here want to talk about corruption, InfoUSA is the link you will be seeing.

    Clink and link for a preview.

    ppj's 'dear friends' are a ... (5.00 / 0) (#90)
    by Sailor on Wed Jun 06, 2007 at 11:07:38 PM EST
    ... rightwing blog. No wonder the delusions are so persistent. He refuses to follow links to facts, watch movies he condemns because powerlie told him not to watch and to condemn them, and insists that suppressing free speech is an American ideal.

    BTW, here is a factual source about how wrongwingers handle corruption: Doolittle opposes House ethics probes for indicted members

    Notice all the Dems voted to condemn a corrupt Dem, but wrongwingers, like dolittle [sic] and duke (who wasn't booted by a repub controlled congress and didn't resign until after he pled guilty), support their corrupt members. Kinda like they support (along with ppj) a convicted liar and obstructor of justice, AKA scooter.

    Parent

    Sailor (1.00 / 0) (#93)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Jun 07, 2007 at 09:27:25 AM EST
    Strawmen Galore!!!!

    Gupta caused InfoUSA to pay former president Clinton $2.1 million in "consulting fees" since he left the White House, with another $1.2 million promised. Gupta reportedly has also spent roughly $1 million of company funds to provide corporate jet flights for the Clintons.

    The company now faces a shareholder lawsuit alleging that Gupta is appropriating company funds for personal use and his political pet projects.

    InfoUSA has placed Speaker Pelosi's son, Paul Pelosi Jr., on its payroll even though he has no experience in the company's main business activities. According to Kessler's report, Paul Pelosi has been brought on board (the company, not the yacht as far as we know) as a Senior Vice President. His salary is $180,000. The hiring occurred a few weeks after Nancy Pelosi became House Speaker.

    The above is current stuff. Notice the money being paid to Clinton...

    Havn't I heard you scream about executive salries?? About board member fees?? Why do you think the shareholder's are suing?

    Now. Would you like to discuss Murtha????

    Congressman Murtha was an unindicted co-conspirator in the "Abscam" investigation of the late 1970s and 1980.

    He's a guy that your Dear Leader wanted to put into a leadership position.

    Link

    "I want to deal with you guys awhile before I make any transactions at all, period.... After we've done some business, well, then I might change my mind...."

    ..."I'm going to tell you this. If anybody can do it -- I'm not B.S.-ing you fellows -- I can get it done my way." he boasted. "There's no question about it."...

    Amoroso: Let me ask you now that we're together. I was under the impression, OK, and I told Howard [middleman Howard Criden] what we were willing to pay, and [This is where the available videotape begins]I went out, I got the $50,000. OK? So what you're telling me, OK, you're telling me that that's not what you know....

    Murtha: I'm not interested.

    Amoroso: OK.

    Murtha: At this point, [This is where the available videotape ends] you know, we do business together for a while. Maybe I'll be interested and maybe I won't.... Right now, I'm not interested in those other things. Now, I won't say that some day, you know, I, if you made an offer, it may be I would change my mind some day.



    Parent

    only to wrongwingers ... (5.00 / 0) (#95)
    by Sailor on Thu Jun 07, 2007 at 10:14:56 AM EST
    ... is a guy who didn't commit a crime the same as one who did.

    The dems are investigating their own, and the crook doolittle voted against it.

    murtha was investigated and no charges were filed.  How desperate these wrongwingers are to have to go back almost 30 years for an example to whine about.

    Parent

    Sailor (1.00 / 0) (#96)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Jun 07, 2007 at 11:57:54 AM EST
    Do you understand "co-conspirator?"

    Do you understand:

    At this point, [This is where the available videotape ends] you know, we do business together for a while. Maybe I'll be interested and maybe I won't.... Right now, I'm not interested in those other things. Now, I won't say that some day, you know, I, if you made an offer, it may be I would change my mind some day.

    Is that your standard???

    Parent

    your standard ... (5.00 / 0) (#97)
    by Sailor on Thu Jun 07, 2007 at 12:40:42 PM EST
    ... is a 30 year old crime ... that didn't happen. No indictment, no conviction. Unlike your unwavering support for wrongwing felons.

    Parent
    Help. My older brother, who started (none / 0) (#1)
    by oculus on Wed Jun 06, 2007 at 02:29:34 AM EST
    out as an Stevenson Democrat, but voted for W in 2000, just told me that, after watching the early Dem. debates, he's down to just Kucinich and Gravel.  He'll be out here in early July immersing himself and me in Marlins games, so I'll have quite a bit of time to "educate" him.  Any suggestions?  Hillary Clinton he'll never vote for, that much is clear, mostly due to her gender, I suspect.  

    If he were my brother (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Jun 06, 2007 at 09:39:52 AM EST
    and he would not vote for a woman because of her gender I would have to start his education with a sound beating ;)  I can't vote for her because she is a monstrous liar that I cannot forgive ever.

    Parent
    Tracy (1.00 / 1) (#37)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Jun 06, 2007 at 11:54:38 AM EST
    Hmmm, "a sound beating?"

    Thank goodness you only wanted to spank me.

    Parent

    So you wouldn't vote for a woman based (none / 0) (#43)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Jun 06, 2007 at 12:12:20 PM EST
    on her gender huh?

    Parent
    TYracy (1.00 / 1) (#82)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Jun 06, 2007 at 08:31:35 PM EST
    When did you quit beating your husband??
    ;-)

    As best possible I try and vote for the best candidate available... usually it is a choice of the lessor evil...i.e. Bush over Algore and Kerry.

    Parent

    Only my assumption it is based solely (none / 0) (#46)
    by oculus on Wed Jun 06, 2007 at 12:19:01 PM EST
    on gender.  I plan to ask him.  He did say earlier he was reading Barack's latest book in a search to an alternative to H. Clinton.  

    Parent
    I think... (none / 0) (#28)
    by kdog on Wed Jun 06, 2007 at 10:17:09 AM EST
    you and your bro should convince each other to vote third party.

    And sorry to hear you have to sit through Marlins games...Lets Go Mets!:)

    Parent

    Last year the Fish took 2 out of 3 in San Diego. (none / 0) (#34)
    by oculus on Wed Jun 06, 2007 at 10:58:24 AM EST
    Now that was painful.

    Parent
    The Padres.... (none / 0) (#72)
    by kdog on Wed Jun 06, 2007 at 06:11:45 PM EST
    you were blessed to have watched Tony Gwynn all those years.  I've always pulled for them out in the West.

    Parent
    I'm going to take my Men at Work, (none / 0) (#73)
    by oculus on Wed Jun 06, 2007 at 06:15:56 PM EST
    paperback book [by George Will, who is a very good baseball writer] along to the Baseball Hall of Fame induction ceremony in late July.  Tony is the primo example of how to consistently hit a baseball.  

    Parent
    Senate: 5 year extension of Multijurisdiction narc (none / 0) (#2)
    by Ben Masel on Wed Jun 06, 2007 at 03:38:11 AM EST
    Lost in the glare of the Iraq supplemental, the Senate on May 24 passed a Feinstein/Chambliss bill to reauthorise the Byrne Grant program which funds Multi-jurisdiction Drug Task Forces for 5 years at $1 billion a year.

    The multijurisdiction groups, usually a DEA Agent plus a ten to twenty officers drawn from a hodgepodge of local Departments, are especially problematic as they are not overseen by any particular local officials, an invitation to corruption and abuse.

    The grants have always been issued annualy, the 5 year plan is a departure.

    The measure heads to the House, and presumably the Judiciary Committee. With the unanimous consent in the Senate, it's unlikely these units can be defunded now. There is room to amend for just 1 more year. I've convinced my Representative, Tammy Baldwin, who sits on the Judiciary's Crime Subcommittee, to push for the one year option. Some heat on the other Committee members becomes appropriate.

    Democrats
    Berman California, 28th
    Boucher, Virginia, 9th
    Nadler ,New York, 8th
    Scott, Virginia, 3rd
    Watt, North Carolina, 12th
    Lofgren, California, 16th
    Jackson Lee, Texas, 18th
    Waters, California, 35th
    Meehan, Massachusetts, 5th
    Delahunt, Massachusetts, 10th
    Wexler, Florida, 19th
    Sánchez, California, 39th
    Cohen, Tennessee, 9th
    Johnson, Georgia, 4th
    Gutierrez, Illinois, 4th
    Sherman, California, 27
    Weiner, New York, 9th
    Schiff, California, 29th
    Davis, Alabama , 7th
    Wasserman Schultz, Florida, 20th
    Ellison, Minnesota, 5th
    Baldwin, Wisconsin, 2nd

    Chair: Conyers. (none / 0) (#3)
    by Ben Masel on Wed Jun 06, 2007 at 04:15:55 AM EST
    Icky thump... (none / 0) (#4)
    by kdog on Wed Jun 06, 2007 at 07:30:00 AM EST
    I'm hooked on the new White Stripes single Icky Thump...I love this verse.

    Well, Americans:
    What, nothin' better to do?
    Why don't you kick yourself out?
    You're an immigrant too.

    Who's usin' who?
    What should we do?
    Well you can't be a pimp
    And a prostitute too



    kdog - Do you really listen (none / 0) (#8)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Jun 06, 2007 at 09:02:02 AM EST
    to songs written/sung by people named Icky Thump??
    I mean honestly??? How can you hear them over the laughter... And our parents thought "The Beltones" was weird...

    BTW - You have a serious misunderstanding of something.

    We, by that I mean the early settlers/gold hunters/etc did not come here as what came to be known later as "immigrants." (The Irish, Italians, etc...)

    They came to conquer, to settle. They weren't interested in the culture of the Native Americans. They came to practice their religion, get rich by stealing gold in the temporary possession of others, trap fur bearing animals.... etc, and etc..

    They were nothing new. Earlier NA's had been kicked out by later NA's.. which kinda brings into question the term "Native Americans," eh??

    Anyway, we have now what we have now. If we don't defend it and if we don't demand certain things of the new arrivals, then what we are will become something else.

    I kinda like what we have now. Oh, I recognize that we have some problems, but I've lived long enough to see that the system does correct itself.

    So, I'm not for letting millions of people with a distinctly different culture come pouring across the borders. I'm for letting some come across, but only in  small enough number that they can be assimilated into the American Culture.

    Parent

    The name of the band is .... (none / 0) (#12)
    by kdog on Wed Jun 06, 2007 at 09:40:03 AM EST
    the White Stripes, the song is called Icky Thump.  Check it out...great guitar work.  Its part of my culture:)

    The immigrants in my neighborhood haven't tried to run me off the land, they just seem to want to share in our way of life, rent a vacant home, fill a vacant job.  You speak of "defend", as if we are under attack, I see people who want to share, and I've got no problem sharing.  iow, my immigrant neighbors don't strike me as conquistadors.

    You speak of not letting "x" number, and allowing "y" number...as if these things are up to us.  People are gonna search for a better life regardless of your wishes or my wishes, and I agree that our way of life here in America is pretty damned good overall, hence people come. It could be worse, we could have a sh*tty way of life with nobody coming.

    The lyrics ask "who is using who?".  From your comments I take it you think Americans are being used by immigrants, I lean towards Americans are using the immigrants....but the truth is we use each other.

    Parent

    kdog (none / 0) (#44)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Jun 06, 2007 at 12:14:26 PM EST
    Well, not bad until they demonstrated they can't sing....

    I'll stick with my classic R&R and C&W.

    And no. You will never get invited to The Palatial Retirement Compound, Catfish Pond and BBQ Stand (Fresh Vegetables every Wednesday)

    As far as immigration.... you just be wrong... these are up to us...

    ;-)

    BTW - Tell RePack that Welk made his coin in real estate.. he owned mucho property in the LA area..


    Parent

    Damn!.... (none / 0) (#69)
    by kdog on Wed Jun 06, 2007 at 05:38:47 PM EST
    the infamous retirement compound is one hot ticket, a close second to Dr. Evil's secret lair:)

    Parent
    kdog (none / 0) (#83)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Jun 06, 2007 at 08:36:16 PM EST
    Alas...sad to say I have had to sell off the gold bathroom fixtures to pay for medical bills that the great unwashed just won't cover...and the games have become so tight...

    And you know you would be a guest of honor...just don't bring any music.... ;-)

    BTW - You goin out to LV for the really big showeee??

    Parent

    Couldn't make it happen this year..... (none / 0) (#98)
    by kdog on Thu Jun 07, 2007 at 02:12:21 PM EST
    the feds crackdown on internet poker gave me less opportunities to qualify.  I gave a few satelites a shot, but no dice.

    There is always next year:)

    Parent

    kdog (none / 0) (#99)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Jun 07, 2007 at 02:37:16 PM EST
    Me neither, of course I'm not into the Internet games... Haven't been since '03... just too big, too
    crowded, etc...

    Parent
    Why Jimmy can't read (none / 0) (#13)
    by Repack Rider on Wed Jun 06, 2007 at 09:44:14 AM EST
    Kdog says: "I'm hooked on the new White Stripes single Icky Thump"

    Jim responds: "Do you really listen to songs written/sung by people named Icky Thump??"

    Reading comprehension 101:

    Artist/writer = "White Stripes"

    Song title = "Icky Thump"

    Would Jim listen to songs written/performed by a band called the Honolulu Fruit Gum Orchestra?

    Bonus fact: Lawrence Welk's first band was called The Hotsy Totsy Boys, later changed to the Honolulu Fruit Gum Orchestra.  If you have had a hard time placing Mr. Welk's unique accent, he was born in the United States, in North Dakota.

    Parent

    Johnny Can't Read (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by Jeralyn on Wed Jun 06, 2007 at 10:10:51 AM EST
    by Don Henley from an early solo album(lip synched by a kid on You Tube)

    Parent
    Heh heh. Hilarious! (none / 0) (#32)
    by Edger on Wed Jun 06, 2007 at 10:42:20 AM EST
    Easy on Old Jim... (none / 0) (#20)
    by kdog on Wed Jun 06, 2007 at 10:03:47 AM EST
    honest mistake.  I just hope he hits my link and starts rocking out the retirement compound/bbq stand/catfish pond:)

    Parent
    RePack (none / 0) (#38)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Jun 06, 2007 at 11:58:32 AM EST
    Your lack of understanding my joshing kdog demonstrates again your lack of observation and lack of a sense of humor...

    Go take your frustration out on a piano...

    BTW - And yes, I goofed the group/song name...

    So get over it.

    Parent

    Blah blah blah blah blah (none / 0) (#49)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Jun 06, 2007 at 12:25:12 PM EST
    East of Colorado Springs two branches of my family were part of "settling" that plains region.  Many of my rickety ancestors are also buried in a rickety sage brush cemetery named KANSA in honor of the Indians they came to know and live with in that area and who were farmers too, look it up silly ppj ;)  The cemetery is on the backroads between Yoder and Rush Colorado and nobody in my family is/was a Kansa Indian and I don't think some of my family members are still being buried there because we CONQUERED the Kansa Indians because we probably would have renamed the cemetery Strickland or Payne.  What you claim and what I have lived just don't match up.

    Parent
    Tracy (none / 0) (#57)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Jun 06, 2007 at 12:57:30 PM EST
    You know, I've missed your inability to understand.
    Edger, squeaky and Jondee only bluff about it. But you truly don't.

    We, by that I mean the early settlers/gold hunters/etc did not come here as what came to be known later as "immigrants." (The Irish, Italians, etc...)

    They came to conquer, to settle. They weren't interested in the culture of the Native Americans. They came to practice their religion, get rich by stealing gold in the temporary possession of others, trap fur bearing animals.... etc, and etc..

    The point of time I was speaking of was the 16th century and the place a global "america."

    Speaking of silly, why would I care  where some of your ancestors are buried??

    BTW - You write:

    What you claim and what I have lived just don't match up.

    I know this is hard, but try to understand. The world existed before you arrived, and will exist after you are gone.

    Parent

    Try to understand (none / 0) (#62)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Jun 06, 2007 at 01:49:50 PM EST
    The world has always been populated by people who understood each other as people first.  Occassionally gross a$$holes show up with greedy agendas and do horrible things and THE PEOPLE end up having to SMITE them so that "people" can live and continue to live for centuries to come ;).  Have a Terrific Great Day!

    Parent
    I just can't get you Jim (5.00 / 3) (#63)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Jun 06, 2007 at 02:18:39 PM EST
    I was headed to put some down comforters in my "space bag" and do something very AMERICANA and I just have to take a damned moment to say that I just do not get you one IOTA.  What is it that you learned from "your people" about making it in this life and just plain living?  I'm lucky, I know so many stories from my old people and never ever did one of their stories about what mattered in life start with the beliefs or religion or skin color of anybody in the story.  Their stories were always about give and take, lending your neighbor your prized new tractor or them lending you theirs that year you couldn't afford a new one and your old one busted, understanding each other, children marrying each other, taking down a fence so your alcoholic neighbor with six kids could use your bull without having to ask to use your bull, making it through bad winters, making it through rainless summers.  I read your comments and wonder what your people taught you.  Did they teach you that you are so dislikeable that you can't trust anyone to care for you so isolate yourself and  understand and care for no one who is lowly flesh and blood as you yourself are?   Spend your days and nights and every waking moment defining your walls for everyone?  Have you noticed that as far as society and friendship and kinship goes and your fellowman that you have become one great big wall?  Your best friend appears to be a thought process and an idealism.

    Parent
    Tracy (none / 0) (#87)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Jun 06, 2007 at 10:09:40 PM EST
    Hmmm. What time do we gather around the campfire??

    My comment had nothing to do about any of that. I was merely pointing out that we took the land, and trying to hint that we can keep it as long as we are willing to fight for it.

    Listen to what some of the radical Latino groups are saying.

    If you doubt that, there is little that I can do for you.

    My take on you is that you were raised comfortably, and your experience with being poor is second hand. You equate working on a relative's farm in the summer with making a living off a farm 2/7/365.

    Trust me. Being poor is terrible, and I highly advise against it. Doubt me? Check out the statistics. Most crime is poor on poor.

    As for "friends, etc., how do you know? You are just assuming because I am all for protecting the country that I am some type scrouge.....

    Now... where did you say the campfire is??

    Parent

    kdog, (none / 0) (#41)
    by Gabriel Malor on Wed Jun 06, 2007 at 12:04:34 PM EST
    It creeps me out a little that you like the Stripes.  How can I put this...

    MINE! Get your own.  :)

    Parent

    Another one.... (none / 0) (#68)
    by kdog on Wed Jun 06, 2007 at 05:35:06 PM EST
    that doesn't want to share:)

    Parent
    GOP candidates and nuclear attack on Iran (none / 0) (#5)
    by bernarda on Wed Jun 06, 2007 at 08:20:46 AM EST
    Why is it that only C&L seems to have reported on GOP candidates who would use nuclear weapons on Iran?

    Maybe I missed it here somewhere.

    apparantly the GOP candidates (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by Molly Bloom on Wed Jun 06, 2007 at 08:27:12 AM EST
    are not the only ones to have lost their moral compass AND their good sense.



    Parent

    Molly with the zinger! (none / 0) (#16)
    by Gabriel Malor on Wed Jun 06, 2007 at 09:52:29 AM EST
    bernarda, this open thread is your opportunity to raise the issue for discussion.

    Parent
    Gabe (5.00 / 1) (#19)
    by Edger on Wed Jun 06, 2007 at 09:59:20 AM EST
    If you'd like to nuke Iran, a country that has not attacked the US... go ahead and say so. Don't use bernarda.

    Parent
    In spite of all my cleaning I (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Jun 06, 2007 at 10:05:29 AM EST
    miss you Edger.

    Parent
    Nice to see you back here, Tracy. :-) (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by Edger on Wed Jun 06, 2007 at 10:06:37 AM EST
    I had to share my Lotus pride of (none / 0) (#25)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Jun 06, 2007 at 10:11:23 AM EST
    ownership.  I have kept my mind essentially blank lately other than inhaling lemons.  Next week I may vacuum in my pearls and start calling Joshua the Beav.

    Parent
    Huh? (none / 0) (#29)
    by Gabriel Malor on Wed Jun 06, 2007 at 10:22:26 AM EST
    My thoughts exactly. (none / 0) (#31)
    by Edger on Wed Jun 06, 2007 at 10:32:32 AM EST
    Focusing on the good things in life (none / 0) (#15)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Jun 06, 2007 at 09:50:31 AM EST
    my husband bought me a Lotus sanitizing system for my birthday.  I wanted one to remove pesticides from produce and after living in lower Alabama I'm fairly certain I have a few pesticides on my produce.  What an amazing gadget it is and lemons and apples smell like heaven after they have been cleaned in it.  I was not aware of the water's ability to clean household things though until one came to live with me.  I am one of those people who clean things when I'm frustrated and being a soldiers wife I can say that I have cleaned the hell out of things lately.  The Lotus I have has a spray bottle attachment that you fill with water and then it oxygenates the water in the bottle, then you spray what you want to clean.  I did the floors with it and then mopped the excess moisture and it is pretty freaky.  Clean floors, no residue from any cleaner and they pass the white sock test after sharing the house with four German Shepherds.  If I only had one of these things when I had a baby, pacifier and bottles and chewy toys into the sanitizer and clean clean floors for toddling.

    Gee, I guess they are going to ask us to leave ;) (none / 0) (#18)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Jun 06, 2007 at 09:57:40 AM EST
    woops, I meant to reply to (none / 0) (#23)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Jun 06, 2007 at 10:08:34 AM EST
    Edger's comment about the Iraqi government voting for us to go home.  I hope they manage to ask us to leave, maybe cut a pineapple or something.

    Parent
    What would happen if you squirted that thing (none / 0) (#26)
    by Edger on Wed Jun 06, 2007 at 10:11:30 AM EST
    on Bush or on the GOP frontrunners?

    Parent
    I squirted it on that black powder mold (none / 0) (#27)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Jun 06, 2007 at 10:15:09 AM EST
    stuff that plagues my jasmine and poof....the instructions say that mold and mildew and bacteria nasty things take in the oxygen and the extra oxygen molecule makes them explode.  I guess we would all be covered in ectoplasm ;)

    Parent
    Can you turn it into a powder (5.00 / 1) (#30)
    by Edger on Wed Jun 06, 2007 at 10:31:29 AM EST
    and put it in an envelope with a stamp on it? <evil grin>

    Parent
    Tracy (none / 0) (#39)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Jun 06, 2007 at 12:01:13 PM EST
    Not to scare you, but just about anyplace you live commercial veggies/fruits will have chems on them..

    And I know the folks in Lower Al are just thrilled that you grace them with your presence.

    Parent

    Don't worry PPJ, you don't scare me (none / 0) (#52)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Jun 06, 2007 at 12:29:04 PM EST
    as for lower AL some are thrilled and some are not so thrilled and that has been the story of my life since day one and I don't think mine is a unique story.

    Parent
    Tracy (none / 0) (#55)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Jun 06, 2007 at 12:42:27 PM EST
    Uh, it wasn't a personal scare, it was the information re chems... I just didn't know that only Lower Al is the only place using'em...

    Parent
    Of course lower LA isn't the only place (none / 0) (#58)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Jun 06, 2007 at 01:02:08 PM EST
    using them.  We have a different pest count down here though.  I had never seen a cockroach before moving here.  Imagine my disbelief when I was told that even after applying chemicals to my yard and outside my house I was still going to share a home with them where they often show up in the their last throes ;)  It is the pest count here that tells me I have more pesticides to deal with and also having to deal with pest problems in my own garden that haven't been simple to solve.  I grow some things myself and I think my new Lotus is going to help with some of my pest problems in my garden too since it did slay that black mold.  I'll certainly let an open thread know if it helps with any of the pest problems that go with having a garden.

    Parent
    Lower LA? (none / 0) (#59)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Jun 06, 2007 at 01:06:11 PM EST
    Freudian Western Slip ;)  Lower AL......hot, humid, BUG, MOLD, MILDEW INFESTED.....someone pass the pesticides.

    Parent
    The locals call it East LA.... (none / 0) (#84)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Jun 06, 2007 at 08:43:17 PM EST
    Tracy.... and then.... (none / 0) (#85)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Jun 06, 2007 at 08:54:48 PM EST
    Plant marigolds and sunlowers in your garden.. they'll help with the pests... Get rid of all snakes, except King snakes and never kill a toad or lizard...(Snakes eat them.) For mold on your plants, try a mild mixture of dishwashing soap and water sprayed on the plants, followed by a good water wash.. cut worms on cabbages and tomaties can be hand picked....place worm on brick A... hit with brick B... purchase some lady bugs and release..keep your garden as weed free as possible. Use a sharp hoe and work the soil up to insure the plant is getting water to its roots...work manure into the soil a week before planting...

    Parent
    more... (none / 0) (#89)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Jun 06, 2007 at 10:18:21 PM EST
    water in the morning only to cut down on mold and bugs.... if there is wind blocks, get rid of them to insure air flow for drying...

    BTW - You actually had never seen a cockroach in your life before you moved to LA???

    Parent

    Never (none / 0) (#94)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Jun 07, 2007 at 10:03:54 AM EST
    Thought I sort of knew what they looked like, thought I had seen a shadow of one before but when we got here I discovered that I really had no clue.  We live on a heavily treed lot so we fight them more I'm told because they live in the trees. I'm having a terrible time with white fly and soapy water just aint doing it unless I want to kill the plant.  I have always used Marigolds but the slugs ate my Marigolds, I really hadn't even seen a slug before I moved here and the only snails I had seen were in aquariums or on plates with garlic and butter.

    Parent
    Iran caught Red Handed (none / 0) (#74)
    by Slado on Wed Jun 06, 2007 at 07:06:33 PM EST
    ABC News

    Looks like we are now actively fighting Iran both in Iraq and Afghanistan.    

    Now that Iran is involving themselves in the war everyone supports what do we do know?

    What we shoulda done then... (none / 0) (#78)
    by Repack Rider on Wed Jun 06, 2007 at 07:55:28 PM EST
    Now that Iran is involving themselves in the war everyone supports what do we do know?

    Can you define "everyone" in some way that does not include me?

    Parent

    Once again ... (none / 0) (#91)
    by Sailor on Wed Jun 06, 2007 at 11:12:38 PM EST
    ... wrongwingers can't tell the difference between a blog (blogs.abcnews.com) and factual reporting.

    Examples of factual reporting: there is no clear evidence that Iran is supplying the Taliban with weapons, according to US Army General Dan McNeill

    Parent

    Genarlow Wilson (none / 0) (#79)
    by Aaron on Wed Jun 06, 2007 at 08:06:22 PM EST
    Lawyers mount another challenge to free Genarlow Wilson

    Genarlow Wilson should be free

    Here's my position on these type of judicial travesties, maybe one of you lawyers can set me straight.

    Here's some advice to anyone who sits on a jury, regardless of the judge's instructions, and how you are instructed to interpret the law, when you sit on a jury, you are the law, and your job is to find justice. The people who sat on this jury apparently believed that they must find this young man guilty, because the judge told them so.  The reason why we have a jury system in America is precisely to avoid allowing the letter of the law to rule our society.  

    Regardless of what you've been told folks, we are not a nation of laws, we are a nation of human beings, and judges who try to control a jury's verdict by telling them what they must do, are in in my judgment subverting the legal system.  In this case all it would've taken is one juror with the courage to think for themselves, to say to themselves and everyone else on that jury, I will not convict this young man, because it's wrong, and it's not Justice.  I hope everyone who reads this will remember that, if they ever sit on a jury.  Think for yourself, do what's right, and when bad laws come into conflict with finding justice, simply disregard them, you have the power.

    I've made declarations similar to this every time I've been called for jury duty, something like 10 times in my life, state and federal court, and I've always been released on the spot. :-) I was once even called for jury duty while I was out of jail on bond, that was funny.

     I suppose my position scares the hell out of judges and lawyers. Unfortunately I'm probably the kind of person who should be sitting on a jury, but I have no interest in judging people, I have enough problems judging myself.

    "Yeah, I know I'm guilty, I understand that, I knew it was a crime, I did it anyway, sh-t why argue I'm a f--king criminal, look at me."  

    More "Offender" Registries (none / 0) (#92)
    by mack on Thu Jun 07, 2007 at 08:40:27 AM EST
    I am not shocked by this proposal for a domestic violence registry.

    I always knew that the sex offender registries were just the tip of the iceberg.

    So we now have Internet registries for convicted drug dealers and a proposal in the state of PA for domestic violence registries.

    Anyone want to take a guess at the next criminal registry proposal?

    My guess is a DUI registry.