home

How Dare You Criticize A General?

No, not Harry Reid. No, as Greg Sargent reports (while wrongly saying Reid called Pace incompetent on the infamous blogger conference call. Sargent does not know that. Bad job Greg. Will we be hearing how Gore invented the Internet next?), it is John Edwards criticizing General Petraeus:

General Petraeus’ comments are just the latest example of the Bush Administration’s disconnect from the reality on the ground. In order to get the Iraqi people to take responsibility for their country, we must show them that we are serious about leaving, and the best way to do that is to actually start leaving. Instead of talking about keeping our troops in Iraq for another decade, the Administration should begin bringing our troops home to the hero’s welcome they deserve."

What's interesting about this is General Petraeus is actually being somewhat honest about this. Any policy that could have even a miniscule chance for a "Bush-style victory" in Iraq WILL require long term commitment of hundreds of thousands of US troops. Indeed, a do-over is required. Dissolution of the existing pro-Iranian Iraqi government, imposition of shared political power and gradual transition to a democracy. Yes the early imposition of elections was the greatest mistake in the posat-invasion Bush policy:

Rapid democratization, meanwhile, could be positively harmful in Iraq. In a Maoist people's war, empowering the population via the ballot box undermines the insurgents' case that the regime is illegitimate and facilitates nonviolent resolution of the inequalities that fuel the conflict. In a communal civil war, however, rapid democratization can further polarize already antagonistic sectarian groups. In an immature polity with little history of compromise, demonizing traditional enemies is an easy -- and dangerous -- way to mobilize support from frightened voters. And as the political scientists Edward Mansfield and Jack Snyder have shown, although mature democracies rarely go to war with other democracies, emerging democracies are unusually bellicose. Political reform is critical to resolving communal wars, but only if it comes at the right time, after some sort of stable communal compromise has begun to take root.

Of course it is inconceivable that any of that is possible. Thus, failure in Iraq is and has been upon us for years. All that is left is the butt covering.

< The Iraq Debacle: "Some Things Are Worth Losing Elections Over" | Duke University Settles With Wrongly Charged Lacrosse Players >
  • The Online Magazine with Liberal coverage of crime-related political and injustice news

  • Contribute To TalkLeft


  • Display: Sort:
    Petraeus is qualified to give his opinion (5.00 / 2) (#1)
    by Geekesque on Mon Jun 18, 2007 at 03:13:06 PM EST
    on what it will take to accomplish his orders.

    He's not qualified to say whether it's worth the cost, or whether political progress is being made in Iraq.

    The Dems want (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Jun 18, 2007 at 03:59:33 PM EST
    Petraeus to fight their fight with Bush for them.  Yet Petraeus is a General, a very successful very well educated General who became a General because he has a tendancy to win and out preform others when given orders.  The Dems want MacEnroe to ref his own "f"ing match.  I would laugh but I'm too busy seeing dead spineless cowardly people everywhere I look!

    Petraeus only got the job ... (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by Sailor on Mon Jun 18, 2007 at 04:09:14 PM EST
    ... after bush fired all the other generals that didn't agree with him.

    Just like everything the WH has said 'I'll listen to the generals' meant exactly the opposite in bush's bizarro world.


    Obama supporters like Sargent (2.00 / 1) (#9)
    by annefrank on Mon Jun 18, 2007 at 05:14:19 PM EST
    are typical of Drudge and Fox News - twisting and spinning any info to negate Edwards. Apparently, Sargent has healthcare.

    As for what Reid said (none / 0) (#2)
    by talex on Mon Jun 18, 2007 at 03:15:00 PM EST
    it really is up in the air who he was taking about. If you read the transcript below you can see he was talking about both Bush and Pace and his bolded sentence could have really applied to either man.

    In fact if I was having that conversation face to face with Reid and he said that I would be prone to asking him for 'clarification' as to which he was calling incompetent - Bush or Pace?

    From TPM:

    "Now we've finally found someone who taped the call -- and this person provided us with a recording of it, on the condition that we not make the audio available, and only post the transcript. The relevant part follows":

    REID: Look what this Justice Department has done. And now, with the Surgeon General, we have a man here who has written articles that I think are a little questionable as to in our modern society. He's a medical doctor. And don't worry, he's gonna be looked at very closely.

    BLOGGER QUESTION: What's the next step on Gonzales?

    REID: Well, I guess the President, he's gotten rid of Pace because he could not get confirmed here in the Senate. Pace is also a yes-man for the President. I told him to his face, I laid it out last time he came in to see me. I told him what an incompetent man I thought he was. But he got rid of his Joint Chiefs of Staff chair, but he still hangs on to this failed Attorney General. And I guess he's gonna [inaudible]. We're gonna keep focusing on it. Every day that goes by, it seems he keeps giving. Now we've learned that the immigration judges are all graduates of Regent University I guess.

    REID AIDE: Guys, I think we have time to take one more question...

    Now my interpretation upon careful reading is that Reid was talking about Bush not Pace. But like I said I couldn't be sure until I asked Reid for 'clarification' as to which he was calling incompetent - Bush or Pace?


    For the record (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by Alien Abductee on Mon Jun 18, 2007 at 04:10:49 PM EST
    Reid is talking about Gonzales, as the context of answering a question about Gonzales makes clear:

    BLOGGER QUESTION: What's the next step on Gonzales?

    REID: Well, I guess the President, he's [the President's] gotten rid of Pace because he [Pace] could not get confirmed here in the Senate. Pace is also a yes-man for the President. [Like Gonzales is.] I told him to his face, I laid it out last time he came in to see me. I told him [Bush] what an incompetent man I thought he [Gonzales] was. But he [Bush] got rid of his Joint Chiefs of Staff chair, but he still hangs on to this failed Attorney General. And I guess he's gonna [inaudible]. We're gonna keep focusing on it. Every day that goes by, it seems he keeps giving. Now we've learned that the immigration judges are all graduates of Regent University I guess.

    Reid is answering the question What's the next step on Gonzales? His entire statement is his answer to the question. He's saying Bush got rid of Pace, now it's time for him to get rid of Gonzales.

    The fact that he adds We're gonna keep focusing on it. Every day that goes by, it seems he keeps giving adds further weight to that interpretation. It obviously references the ongoing DOJ investigations. The reference to "immigration judges" also ties the reference unambiguously back to Gonzales as well.

    Parent

    Does it really matter? (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Jun 18, 2007 at 10:07:37 PM EST
    Considering the lack of understanding that Reid has where the military and military matters are concerned would you really care if Reid dissed you and you were a General?  I friggin wouldn't.  I'd just chuckle to myself and have delivered a nice brie to Harry to go with his whine.

    Parent
    Has anyone called Pace and asked him how (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Jun 18, 2007 at 10:11:53 PM EST
    he's doing since Harry dissed him?  We should get right on the horn and address this, I'm sure Pace is all broken up over it.

    Parent
    I think he's talking about Pace... (1.00 / 1) (#3)
    by Slado on Mon Jun 18, 2007 at 03:22:47 PM EST
    It appears he's saying that he told Bush what an incompentant man he thought Pace was.

    He definately wasn't talking about Gonzales.

    But he chould have been talking about Bush.

    The problem is Reid won't say what he did say so it appears he knows what he meant and is waiting for this to go away.

    Gotta love Reid, he talks as well as he passes bills.   Always easier when you're in the minority.

    Parent

    Why should he (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by jondee on Mon Jun 18, 2007 at 03:41:27 PM EST
    be "waiting for it to go away"? At this point most of the citizenry have a strong inkling about the generalized incompetency of this admin and it's appointees. I'd think most people applaud his moxie.

    Parent
    um, slado.......... (none / 0) (#8)
    by cpinva on Mon Jun 18, 2007 at 05:12:17 PM EST
    welcome to the year of our lord, 2007, nice to have you with us. since your coma, the democrats regained control of both houses of congress, putting sen. reid in the majority. a slim majority i'll grant you, but a majority nonetheless.

    it appears, in the context of the actual question being asked, sen. reid's characterization is of AG gonzales. it could be bush as well, or pace. absent clarification, it's hard to tell. could you share your crystal ball with the rest of the class, that we might have the benefit of your definitive insight too?

    with regards to gen. petraus, he's carrying bush's water, it's his job. while technically not political, you don't get to be a general purely by virtue of your military accumen.

    that said, he's pretty much stating the obvious: if we have any hope in hell of the type of success the administration is looking for, we can expect to have a substantial military presence in iraq for years to come.

    you'll note he didn't indicate whether or not he believed we would achieve that success, or that it was wise to even try, just what it would realistically require to attempt accomplishing it.

    edward's criticism is legitimate, up to a point. he failed to note what the gen. didn't say, while opining on what he did.

    Parent