Rudy May Be Worse Than Bush

By Jeralyn, Section Elections 2008
Posted on Fri Jun 01, 2007 at 04:26:31 PM EST
Tags: Rudy Giuliani (all tags)

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Matt Taibbi profiles Rudy Giuliani in the current issue of Rolling Stone.

He's cashing in on 9/11, working with Karl Rove's henchmen and in cahoots with a Swift Boat-style attack on Hillary. Will Rudy Giuliani be Bush III?

Wonkette sums up the key points. My favorite:

About the WTC cleanup run by Rudy: “More people will eventually die from the cleanup than from the original accident.”

My answer to the question as to whether Rudy is more dangerous than Bush: Of course he is. He's smarter and more Machiavellian.

A more apt question would be whether he's more dangerous than Dick Cheney. Probably not. But it's also why, happily, he won't be successful in his bid for the Presidency.

More...

Machiavellian, from the dictionary:

being or acting in accordance with the principles of government analyzed in Machiavelli's The Prince, in which political expediency is placed above morality and the use of craft and deceit to maintain the authority and carry out the policies of a ruler is described.
characterized by subtle or unscrupulous cunning, deception, expediency, or dishonesty: He resorted to Machiavellian tactics in order to get ahead.

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Rudy May Be Worse Than Bush | 27 comments (27 topical)

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Whadaya mean (5.00 / 1) (#7)
by NMRon on Fri Jun 01, 2007 at 09:34:43 PM EST

MAY be worse than Bush?

Claw (5.00 / 2) (#16)
by Claw on Sat Jun 02, 2007 at 12:12:14 PM EST

Actually Jim,
I think my friend held out for a long time. I think, in the end, it was the Iraq war lies + the Iraq War itself + the Valerie Plame scandal and a high official (Libby) being convicted of a serious crime + the bizarre nomination of Meyers + torture scandal + cricumventing FISA + wiretapping (guy's kind of got a libertarian streak so he didn't like that) + misrepresantations about the extent of the wiretapping + the inevitable slow dawning on the vast majority of Americans that Bush is an awful President. Keep in mind that there is a serious debate going on about where Bush ranks in the pantheon of awful Presidents. Many historians rank him worse than Nixon. I guess they're easy, too.

claw (1.00 / 0) (#18)
by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jun 02, 2007 at 01:07:26 PM EST

Somehow I just can't make myself believe....

As for "serious debate..." Please. I just had lunch.

[ Parent ]

: claw (1.00 / 1) (#23)
by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jun 02, 2007 at 05:12:05 PM EST

You folks are just so.... funny, I guess.
Flip over to the latest terrorist plot arrest and check out the excuses being made.

[ Parent ]

Claw (none / 0) (#22)
by Edger on Sat Jun 02, 2007 at 01:52:59 PM EST

You're describing examples of all of jims favorite traits in a president. You're timing is awful, though. He just had lunch. It's hard for him to pant on a full stomach.

[ Parent ]

A certain (none / 0) (#2)
by jondee on Fri Jun 01, 2007 at 05:58:08 PM EST

animal cunning that allows you to "cash in" is apparently a quality that a certain generally right-leaning demograph identifies with in the U.S.
Quaint speculations concerning goodness and wisdom rarely enter into the discussion. Whats good and wise is what expresses and stimulates the dynamic American economy and a guy like Rudi's smarts come to be seen as preeminent intelligence.

Giuliani is more than a little shaky ethically (none / 0) (#3)
by Aaron on Fri Jun 01, 2007 at 07:45:00 PM EST

My mother dated a lawyer who worked for Rudy Giuliani before 9/11, he quit in disgust for reasons of ethical conflict. The stuff he told my mom was horrendous. Suffice to say that horrific violations of the law and basic human morality were involved.

I think we can do without that kind of thing in the White House...again!

Never say never (none / 0) (#4)
by koshembos on Fri Jun 01, 2007 at 07:51:43 PM EST

I'm not sure that Rudy will not win. Especially with Hillary, Rudy can make her look quite bad unless he starts to be less scripted and more spontaneous.

To kill him early, we must WTC swift boat him ASAP. It should be quite easy but also swift boated.

No Republican can win in 2008 period... (none / 0) (#5)
by Aaron on Fri Jun 01, 2007 at 07:56:31 PM EST

...unless the elections are fixed.

Worse? (none / 0) (#6)
by Claw on Fri Jun 01, 2007 at 08:42:22 PM EST

Worse? No, that's a little over the top. Keep in mind that historians are openly debating whether Bush is the worst President in history. I finally (after the attorney firings) got a staunch republican collegue to pay up on a bet we made when Bush was elected. I said he'd turn out to to be worse than Nixon. My learned friend said he would not. Fun aside, it's pretty sad when you're pining for the days of Bush I.

Claw (1.00 / 1) (#8)
by jimakaPPJ on Fri Jun 01, 2007 at 09:52:25 PM EST

Your friend is pretty easy.

Ask him if he was any other money he wants to give away.

[ Parent ]

: OFF TOPIC PERSONAL ATTACK (none / 0) (#24)
by Sailor on Sat Jun 02, 2007 at 05:58:17 PM EST

Topic : Rudy May Be Worse Than Bush

[ Parent ]

Yes. Yes. Rudy is a national disaster. (none / 0) (#9)
by socialistT on Sat Jun 02, 2007 at 01:33:38 AM EST

If there is an election in 2008, I don't think that a Republican stands winning. However, Rudy could use his "I am a 9/11 star" line to win (even though, the reason he is a "9/11 star" begins with him assisting in the attacks as a prelude to capturing power, via the Bush machine and the Republican "nomination process"; however, whilst trying to please a consistently left-leaning electorate, he has drawn screams from the right-wing nutter-butters).

Rudy and Bush seem to be one in the same. And the White House's and Rudy's involvement in the 9/11 attacks still needs to be discussed. For that is the defining issue: acts of terrorism against the American people, by Bush-Cheney. Did Rudy know?

Seems pretty nice for ol' Rude since he is now running for president as a "first rate" candidate, something probably impossible for him before 9/11?

Questions about 9/11 must be addressed. (none / 0) (#10)
by socialistT on Sat Jun 02, 2007 at 01:35:50 AM EST

Did Rudy help the Bush administration orchestrate the 9/11 attacks?

Will the real terrorist please stand up?

Check out: 911weknow.com

And Scholars of 9/11 Truth.

David Ray Griffin's book "The New Pearl Harbor" is a must, must read.

socialstT - here's what we know.... (1.00 / 0) (#13)
by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jun 02, 2007 at 10:54:22 AM EST

Here's what we have been told....

"At the special meeting on July 5 were the FBI, Secret Service, FAA, Customs, Coast Guard, and Immigration. We told them that we thought a spectacular al Qaeda terrorist attack was coming in the near future." That had been had been George Tenet's language. "We asked that they take special measures to increase security and surveillance. Thus, the White House did ensure that domestic law enforcement including the FAA knew that the CSG believed that a major al Qaeda attack was coming, and it could be in the U.S., and did ask that special measures be taken."

However, this link provides detaials on how Rudy actually knew what was happening and was able to direct the airctraft into the buildings... The evil... oh the evil of it all....

[ Parent ]

ha, ha, ha, ha ... (none / 0) (#14)
by Sailor on Sat Jun 02, 2007 at 11:27:44 AM EST

... quoting faux news like it the truth, whew, thanks for the laugh.

[ Parent ]

Sailor (1.00 / 0) (#15)
by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jun 02, 2007 at 11:33:17 AM EST

Gee, I don't know. It was a TV interview that was broadcasted and no one has claimed otherwise.

Do you really know something the rest of the world doesn't?

Is that you in the link in disguise????

[ Parent ]

OFF TOPIC PERSONAL ATTACK (none / 0) (#25)
by Sailor on Sat Jun 02, 2007 at 05:59:51 PM EST

Topic: Rudy May Be Worse Than Bush

[ Parent ]

: Sailor (none / 0) (#26)
by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jun 02, 2007 at 07:14:58 PM EST

So you again want to act as if you know what you're talking about.... too bad you don't..
Now the topic of the thread is the evil Rudy. Now that doesn't mean that everyone must say he is evil. Actually, you are allowed to NOT be a mind numbed robot...
At 1:35PM Socialist opined that Rudy helped the Bush administration do the 9/11 attacks. I used a factual and actual FNC interview in which Rice points out that the right people were put on notice, and some sarcasm to show how idiotic such a claim is.
All of this is right on topic. Rudy. Rudy. Rudy.
Now you may have felt insulted when I questioned if you were in the link in disguise... Now I would grant you that the young men in the link may not be Robert Redford, but I would think no Mother would be ashamed to show a picture of any one of them as son-in-law to be.
At least I didn't use this link as a reference.
;-)
Of course you can't stay on topic, so you have to opine about FNC.

[ Parent ]

correction. (none / 0) (#11)
by socialistT on Sat Jun 02, 2007 at 01:36:53 AM EST

Scholars for 9/11 Truth, they can be reached here: http://st911.org/

Ya think? (none / 0) (#12)
by rdandrea on Sat Jun 02, 2007 at 09:40:47 AM EST

n/t

Also (none / 0) (#17)
by Claw on Sat Jun 02, 2007 at 12:20:37 PM EST

Whether you think my friend is "easy" or not, you should remember that his chosen profession (County Attorney) causes him to be very concerned about the law and the following of it. Oh, and I don't think he liked seeing fellow prosecutors fired without cause. That may be what put him over the top.

: Peggy Noonan too (5.00 / 0) (#20)
by squeaky on Sat Jun 02, 2007 at 01:25:37 PM EST

The WSJ's Peggy Noonan declares Bush a threat to the Republican party: " ... The beginning of my own sense of separation from the Bush administration came in January 2005......
........ What I came in time to believe is that the great shortcoming of this White House, the great thing it is missing, is simple wisdom. Just wisdom--a sense that they did not invent history, that this moment is not all there is, that man has lived a long time and there are things that are true of him, that maturity is not the same thing as cowardice, that personal loyalty is not a good enough reason to put anyone in charge of anything, that the way it works in politics is a friend becomes a loyalist becomes a hack, and actually at this point in history we don't need hacks. ..."
via W & P

[ Parent ]
: The problem being... (5.00 / 1) (#21)
by sphealey on Sat Jun 02, 2007 at 01:40:16 PM EST

> Whether you think my friend is "easy" or not,
> you should remember that his chosen profession
> (County Attorney) causes him to be very concerned
> about the law and the following of it. Oh, and I
> don't think he liked seeing fellow prosecutors
> fired without cause. That may be what put him
> over the top.
The problem being that the Bush Administration has been breaking the law since 2002, and the signs have been right out in the open since 2003. But not until a prosecutorial ox was gored did your friend open his eyes. That doesn't give me a lot of confidence.
sPh

[ Parent ]
: Wait!!!! (1.00 / 0) (#19)
by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jun 02, 2007 at 01:09:22 PM EST

(
guy's kind of got a libertarian streak so he didn't like that)

Okay, he's a libertarian. That makes sense.

[ Parent ]

well (none / 0) (#27)
by Claw on Sat Jun 02, 2007 at 09:41:41 PM EST

Let's wait a minute. Jim's too devoted to making snarky comments to anyone who says anything bad about Bush to realize that I'm actually on his side here (Rudy not as bad as Bush) but let's not attack my collegue and friend needlessly. He is a prosecutor. He believes in the rule of law...and when people break the law it kind of ticks him off. I found Jim's "easy" comment offensive but I'm not sure that the "ox gored" comment is entirely appropriate, either. He finally paid up on the bet. That's what I know. I also know that he didn't like the attorney firings or any of the other illegal activities. I am GUESSING that it was the firings that put him over the top.
I apologize to Jim preemptively...in case he just had dinner.

: Claw (none / 0) (#28)
by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jun 03, 2007 at 10:34:29 AM EST

If I responded to everyone here eveytime they made a snarky inaccurate comment about Bush I would have no time for anything else.....
BTW - There are things that all of us could agree on that Bush has done, and hasn't done that we could all agree is bad. Instead, all the Left wants to do is say Bush lied and attack him over national security issues. That is a lose-lose proposition.

[ Parent ]