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Use of Force by LAPD Examined

Here's a sensible take on the use of force against protesters (and the media) in Los Angeles on May 1:

The police action was reportedly in response to a handful of protesters who threw plastic bottles and other small objects in the direction of police. But none of that explains what happened. Even LAPD Chief William J. Bratton, currently being considered for a second term as chief, was moved to call the response “inappropriate” and said “I was disturbed at what I saw.” Which would certainly be obvious to anyone watching the footage, but hearing it from the current chief of police is a comforting change in attitude from previous generations of LAPD leadership. Two investigations have already been launched into the incident.

The response from apologists whenever a scene like this one unfolds (i.e., Rodney King) is that police work is tough and dangerous and requires split-second decisions: What would you do in that situation? That is all true, except that police are also trained, paid, and fully expected to operate at a different level from an average citizen caught in chaotic situations. What reason could there be to beat unarmed protesters or media personnel carrying professional video equipment?

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  • Display: Sort:
    Of course the cameramen (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by Jen M on Thu May 03, 2007 at 06:16:13 AM EST
    were a threat. They not only saw what was really happening, they were recording it. What amazes me is that the police would think those big honkin news cameras were the only video recording devices around.

    How many reporters (5.00 / 3) (#10)
    by Jen M on Thu May 03, 2007 at 01:34:10 PM EST
    were throwing rocks?  

    Those are some really awsome strong scary cops who are wearing riot gear and are scared of a few rocks


    I have not seen it (1.00 / 2) (#2)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Thu May 03, 2007 at 09:01:12 AM EST

    You would not expect the police to stand by while rocks (other small objects) were thrown.  A thrown rock can kill or maim.

    typical (5.00 / 3) (#3)
    by Sailor on Thu May 03, 2007 at 10:46:48 AM EST
    You would not expect the police to stand by while rocks (other small objects) were thrown.  
    No, you would expect them to arrest the folks who did it, not fire wildly into a crowd containing women and children and definitely not to target journalists.
    A thrown rock can kill or maim.
    Not when you're wearing armor.

    The police caused a riot, not reacted to one.


    Parent

    Mob dispersal (1.00 / 1) (#6)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Thu May 03, 2007 at 12:38:05 PM EST
    ...you would expect them to arrest the folks who did it, not fire wildly into a crowd...

    That does not appear to be a practical way to disperse a mob.  Do you expect one or two officers to chase a rock thrower into the middle of the mob?

    >>A thrown rock can kill or maim.
    >Not when you're wearing armor.

    A. Not everyone there was wearing armor.  The police need to protect everyone not juat the armored.

    B. None of that armor appears to be 100% effective in preventing death or severe injury.

    Parent

    the cops rioted (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by Sailor on Thu May 03, 2007 at 01:00:58 PM EST
    and fired indesciminately into the crowd. That is not protecting them.

    That does not appear to be a practical way to disperse a mob.
    What mob? The overwhelmingly numerous peaceful protestors? The TV crews that were targeted?

    Parent
    Good one. (5.00 / 2) (#12)
    by manys on Thu May 03, 2007 at 02:15:50 PM EST
    A thrown rock can kill or maim.

    This is a joke, right?

    Parent

    Ironic (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by squeaky on Thu May 03, 2007 at 02:20:29 PM EST
    David and Goliath. Amir is rooting for Goliath.

    Parent
    The police f'd up (none / 0) (#15)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu May 03, 2007 at 02:29:59 PM EST
    however...
    Seven LAPD officers also suffered minor injuries caused by demonstrators throwing objects. One motor officer was pushed off his bike after reportedly entering the parade line which seems to be the initial cause of the clash between demonstrators and the police.
    ...not killed or maimed to be sure.

    Parent
    Translation: (none / 0) (#16)
    by manys on Thu May 03, 2007 at 03:44:15 PM EST
    "One motor officer floored it into a crowd and toppled over when someone couldn't get out of the way in time."

    Parent
    They're paid sh*t to do so (none / 0) (#4)
    by Dadler on Thu May 03, 2007 at 11:24:56 AM EST
    We get what we pay for, in other words.  We treat educating children like a widget factory, look what we have.  We treat police work like a lowest bid enterprise, and look at the situations like this that we get.

    How can anyone be surprised?  It's appalling but certainly predictable.

    They targeted the press (none / 0) (#5)
    by Sailor on Thu May 03, 2007 at 12:04:36 PM EST
    Other members of the media who were injured included four employees of KVEA-TV Channel 52, a KTTV-TV Channel 11 news reporter who suffered a minor shoulder injury, a camerawoman who has a broken wrist and a reporter for KPCC-FM (89.3) who was bruised by a police baton.

    "I was dumbfounded," said the KPCC reporter, Patricia Nazario. "I've covered riots. I've covered chaos. I was never hit or struck or humiliated the way the LAPD violated me yesterday."

    Nazario said she was walking away from riot police when she was hit in the back.

    Wearing a press pass and holding a microphone, she turned around and told the officer, "Why did you hit me? I'm moving. I'm a reporter," Nazario recalled.

    Then the officer hit her on the left leg, she said, knocking her to the ground and sending her cellphone flying.
    [...]
    Pedro Sevcec was anchoring the evening news for Telemundo when he saw the riot police moving slowly toward the news crews.
    [...]
    Police knocked over monitors and lights and hit reporters and camera operators with batons, he said.

    Sevcec said police hit him three times and pointed a riot gun at his face before pushing him out of the park.
    [...]
    Telemundo reporter Carlos Botifoll said he was hit by a baton as he was waiting to go live on the broadcast.

    He was carrying a microphone and standing in front of a camera.

    "We were obviously reporters," he said. "There could not have been any doubt whatsoever."

    The use of force on news crews came despite a legal settlement signed in 2002 calling for the Los Angeles police and city officials to recognize journalists' right to cover public protests even if there is a declaration of unlawful assembly and an order to disperse.




    shooting people (5.00 / 3) (#11)
    by Jen M on Thu May 03, 2007 at 01:36:24 PM EST
    in the back AS THEY WERE OBEYIN ORDERS

    How incredibly heroic

    Parent

    Another big (none / 0) (#8)
    by jondee on Thu May 03, 2007 at 01:01:22 PM EST
    problem is this type of training that comes down the line that places such an undue emphasis on intimidation and force as the only way to "control the situation". That cult-of-macho-b.s is probobly responsible for more instances of brutalization than anything else.

    Dont expect a non-amimalistic responce when you treat people like animals.

    let's look to history (none / 0) (#13)
    by manys on Thu May 03, 2007 at 02:19:16 PM EST
    That cult-of-macho-b.s is probobly responsible for more instances of brutalization than anything else.

    And like other instances of macho behavior is an expression of powerlessness and fear. Today's police are being trained to be wimps, using guns as their first and only response (maybe second, after screaming).

    Parent

    Abdul (none / 0) (#9)
    by Che's Lounge on Thu May 03, 2007 at 01:04:52 PM EST
    You betray yourself with your liberal use of the word mob. And BTW, the police actually herded the agitators into the peaceful marchers before the confrontation.

    In many european countries the police will tolerated projectiles because they are so heavily protected, and are not as easily provoked. I don't recal hearing much about the killing and maiming of riot police in europe.

    Finally, many agitators are plants.

    A fair description (none / 0) (#24)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Fri May 04, 2007 at 12:30:16 PM EST

    A large unorganized group of people, some of whom are throwing rocks and bottles capable of maiming seems a fair description of a mob.

    Parent
    wrong as always (none / 0) (#25)
    by Sailor on Fri May 04, 2007 at 12:44:21 PM EST
    it was mainly a peaceful organized gathering of people that had a permit for the event that was good till 9pm.

    But if you're referring to the cops, yes, they were a mob, firing 240 less lethal rounds into a largely peaceful crowd.

    Parent

    A local radio station (none / 0) (#26)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri May 04, 2007 at 12:55:46 PM EST
    played a bunch of the police communications just preceding the start of the police actions last night.

    There was a lot of sh1t going down.

    People throwing glass bottles at the cops and black & whites from apartments, guys filling backpacks with glass bottles and disappearing into the crowds, fires being lighted (the smell of the fires from the Rodney King riots still rises up in some places here during the rainy season), etc.

    I'm still of the opinion that the situation could have been handled better, but I don't think it's quite as cut-and-dried as it seemed at first.

    Parent

    WSWS on police violence in LA (none / 0) (#17)
    by Andreas on Thu May 03, 2007 at 03:52:12 PM EST
    Legal observers, volunteers sent by the Lawyers Guild, insisted that no order to disperse was given before the police began their assault. Only after the shooting began did a police helicopter give an order to disperse, an order that few people actually heard.

    That, added to the video evidence, indicates that that the police provocation and the LAPD disciplined sweep that followed was intended to create a pretext to intimidate immigrants and workers peacefully assembling to demand their rights.

    US: Los Angeles police violently disperse immigrant rights demonstration
    By Rafael Azul, 3 May 2007

    after all (none / 0) (#18)
    by Jen M on Thu May 03, 2007 at 04:34:38 PM EST
    who's gonna listen to them, right? What is it with LA police anyway

    Parent
    I know, I know! (none / 0) (#19)
    by Sailor on Thu May 03, 2007 at 05:10:14 PM EST
    What is it with LA police anyway
    2 words, Daryl Gates. And he exported that 'control' the situation crap all across the country.

    Parent
    The Naked Ape (none / 0) (#20)
    by Aaron on Thu May 03, 2007 at 06:19:13 PM EST
    I notice that the major media providers have only shown the worst violence that I initially saw on CNN once or twice. I noticed a bunch of softened versions, almost immediately after.  I'd like to see these videos uncut and unedited, maybe someone can post a link if they find them.  What I saw was atrocious, and made me very angry.

    ------------------------------------------------------

    Here's a tip, don't knock over a cop's Harley, because that will surely get you an ass-woopin in any of the municipalities I've known, simple as that, it was on with the cops at that point.  Basic primate territoriality is what were talking about here, that is what riot squads do best after all.

    If you're stupid enough to stand in front of men with armor, weapons and shields, and think you're going to be able to reason with them, you'd better think again.  The reporter in that LA Times story was pretty naïve, that kind of thing can get you killed, by "accident".

    The only defense against a group of brutes in gladiatorial garb is effective armor piercing weapon, that's how you escalate that situation.  
    Next time maybe an angry immigrant just back from Iraq will bring his AR-15 carbine under his coat, and when the cops confront him they'll get a different answer.  

    And what will happen then, who will benefit from an escalation of this kind of violence?

    I know who.

    I'm getting visions of Israel when I watch this, Palestinians on the West Bank getting beaned with rubber bullets, is that what America is coming to with immigration under the Bush administration? Building walls along borders and attempting to marginalize people, it never works in the end, so why are we doing it? Latinos will very soon be a majority in the United States, white folks better start being nice, get on their good side now because pretty soon they'll be running the country, at least if it's still a democracy, which I will admit seems to be more and more up in the air these days.

     I wonder about LA cops who had this duty, and could see kids, little kids running, and think it's acceptable to fire their weapon in that situation, I wonder what's in the back of their mind, perhaps that these are illegal immigrants and therefore not legitimate human beings so I don't have the same responsibility for their lives as I do the lives of US citizens?  I've got a problem with that, and the officer who ordered this action.

    The next time I assert my right to bear arms, by defending the sales of assault weapons and high-capacity magazines, I'll cite just such a situation as my reason for caring a fully loaded assault rifle with me at all times.  Your Honor, you never know when you'll be attacked by a mob of police, I just want to be able to defend myself.

    Thinking about that post from a few days ago, If I could go back in time, I would give AK-47s to the kids at Kent State, and watch them route the National Guard, just like US troops got slaughtered by barely trained kids and young people in Vietnam, as happens daily in Iraq and Afghanistan, here's the most recent American deaths , I wonder what their killers looked like, how old they were, where they were first exposed to violence.  The same thing is going on in Africa right now, 9 and 10 year-old's ravaging the countryside taking out villages, working for warlords for nothing more than food and a place to sleep. My point, simply this, primates are dangerous, far more dangerous than any wild animal like a lion or rhino.  Abuse them and fail to show proper respect for them at your peril.


    Be real (none / 0) (#22)
    by Jen M on Thu May 03, 2007 at 06:30:44 PM EST
    You don't knock over ANYbody's Harley. Its just not right. Even if you hate the rider, its a HARLEY. Gotta have respect.

    Parent
    Bike OK? (none / 0) (#23)
    by Che's Lounge on Thu May 03, 2007 at 08:02:00 PM EST