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The Iraq Supplemental: Bringing The GOP Alternative To A Vote

[N]ot funding it is going to be the de facto Democratic stance by the end of the year for all of those that want the Democratic nomination, if not sooner.

-Jerome Armstrong

It should be the de facto stance for all Dems in Congress now. And the developments on the Iraq Supplemental demonstrate why,

The Democratic Congress passed a horrendous Iraq Supplemental bill. I opposed it because, in my opinion, it did nothing to get us closer to ending the war. From the unacceptable House bill, the one Move On loved, to the predictably stripped down nonbinding version that emerged from the conference report, the one the President vetoed, these were all bad bills that did nothing to further the fight to end the Iraq Debacle.

I did not oppose these bills because they did not immediately defund the war, I opposed them because they did not further the goal of ending the Iraq Debacle. The proposal I support, the Reid/Feingold/Mcgovern framework, would allow for unconditional funding to a date certain. In the Reid-Feingold version, for another 10 months. I believe immediate NOT funding, even when funding for withdrawal is permitted, is not politically feasible. But I do think announcing a NOT funding date certain of March 31, 2008 is politically feasible.

And if it is not, then Democrats can reap the political advantage of having done all they can to end the Debacle. We are having a sort of trial run for this approach now. The Congress will bring up for vote the de facto GOP/Blue Dog alternative Iraq Supplemental funding bill. It will likely pass. But let it pass only with GOP and Blue Dog votes. It is their proposal after all. And then what?

Well, do what I propose of course. Heh. Set a date certain for not funding the war:

This is a preemptive post, because I am positive that the defenders of those Presidential candidates who do not endorse Reid-Feingold will trot out the same critiques about the NOT funding the Debacle approach that was used when Feingold first proposed his Not Funding plan in January. To wit, we don't have the votes, McConnell will filibuster, Bush will veto. My response remains:

I ask for three things: First, announce NOW that the Democratic Congress will NOT fund the Iraq Debacle after a date certain. You pick the date. Whatever works politically. If October 2007 is the date Dems can agree to, then let it be then. If March 2008, then let that be the date; Second, spend the year reminding the President and the American People every day that Democrats will not fund the war past the date certain; Third, do NOT fund the Iraq Debacle PAST the date certain.
Some argue we will never have the votes for this. That McConnell will filibuster, that Bush will veto. To them I say I KNOW. But filbustering and vetoing does not fund the Iraq Debacle. Let me repeat, to end the war in Iraq, the Democratic Congress does not have to pass a single bill; they need only NOT pass bills that fund the Iraq Debacle.

But but but, defund the whole government? Defund the whole military? What if Bush does not pull out the troops? First, no, not defund the government, defund the Iraq Debacle. If the Republicans choose to shut down government in order to force the continuation of the Iraq Debacle, do not give in. Fight the political fight. We'll win. Second, defund the military? See answer to number one. Third, well, if you tell the American People what is coming for a year, and that Bush is on notice, that it will be Bush abandoning the troops in Iraq, we can win that political battle too.
This approach is perfectly consistent with the so called "short leash" plan, where the Debacle will be funded in 3 month intervals. But it is only consistent if BOTH are done. The intention to NOT fund the war after March 31, 2008 must be made the Dem position now.

The short leash must be pulled to a stop on March 31, 2008.

Say it now so you can end it then. If you do not say it now, then you can't end it on March 31, 2008.

This approach has the following virtues: (1) you are funding the troops in the field; (2) you are giving the Surge a chance to work; (3) you are laying out a plan the American People support; and most importantly, (4)you can end the Debacle and bring our troops home.

Now if your goal is to RUN on the Debacle (which is unattainable in my opinion, the ruse is too easily seen through) then you won't like this plan.

But if you want to run as the Party that ended the Debacle, or at least the Party that did everything it could to end the Debacle, then you must adopt the NOT funding plan. That means Reid-Feingold.

It could be that this approach will not work. But I do know that every other approach WILLNOT work.

If the GOP and the Blue Dogs can muster the votes for a motion to discharge in order to pass their version of an Iraq funding bill in March 2008, then there is nothing Dems and their leadership can do. They will have done all they can.

But they will be able to honestly tell the American People that they have done all they can. And the supporters of the Iraq Debacle will be clearly identified. And those Democrats who fought hard to end the Debacle can be justly proud of their efforts. And then the american People can decide in 2008 if they want to support those Congresspersons who do not want to end the Iraq Debacle.

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  • Display: Sort:
    Some vote this is going to be... (none / 0) (#1)
    by Edger on Thu May 24, 2007 at 09:26:25 AM EST
    Dick Cheney Dems Plan to Hide Votes On Iraq TODAY
    Today is the day House Democrats are expected to vote on Iraq - except, news out of Washington this morning says the leadership has come up with a nifty little trick to try to prevent the public from seeing who voted for giving Bush a blank check, and who voted against it. If you thought Democrats were behaving like cowards by caving into a President at a three-decade low in presidential polling and giving him the very blank check they explicitly promised not to give him during the 2006 election, you ain't seen nothing yet. We are watching the rise of the Dick Cheney Democrats - that is, the rise of Democrats who endorse governing in secret and hiding the public's business from the public itself.


    I'm not sure I follow what Dave is saying (3.00 / 1) (#2)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu May 24, 2007 at 09:29:24 AM EST
    The vote on the rule then becomes the vote for the Iraq Supplemental.

    As a stealth move, it seems kinda stupid.

    Parent

    Frankly, I don't see how he's right (5.00 / 2) (#4)
    by andgarden on Thu May 24, 2007 at 09:32:43 AM EST
    if you look at the daily whipline you can see that there will be a rule, followed by votes on the Senate amendments. A vote on final passage isn't listed, but I can't imagine how that wouldn't be necessary.

    Parent
    AsI said (5.00 / 2) (#6)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu May 24, 2007 at 09:34:26 AM EST
    it does not make sense to me.

    Parent
    I don't know. (none / 0) (#7)
    by Edger on Thu May 24, 2007 at 09:35:15 AM EST
    I don't know enough about House procedure.

    Parent
    Also (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by andgarden on Thu May 24, 2007 at 09:35:30 AM EST
    The Text (none / 0) (#14)
    by andgarden on Thu May 24, 2007 at 09:50:31 AM EST
    3. Waives all points of order against the motion. (none / 0) (#16)
    by Edger on Thu May 24, 2007 at 09:53:06 AM EST
    Hand me one of those airsickness bags, would you?

    Parent
    That's standard for a Rule (5.00 / 2) (#18)
    by andgarden on Thu May 24, 2007 at 09:57:38 AM EST
    I watch lots of C-Span, so it's familiar. It doesn't look like this does what Sirota says it does.

    Parent
    I hope not. (none / 0) (#20)
    by Edger on Thu May 24, 2007 at 10:01:44 AM EST
    I hope you guys keep track (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by Edger on Thu May 24, 2007 at 10:04:19 AM EST
    and comment lots on this today. I have medical appts that will take up most of my day, so I won't be able to follow till later.

    Parent
    As best we can (5.00 / 2) (#22)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu May 24, 2007 at 10:07:33 AM EST
    From angarden's link:

    Resolved, That upon adoption of this resolution it shall be in order to take from the Speaker's table the bill (H.R. 2206) making emergency supplemental appropriations and additional supplemental appropriations for agricultural and other emergency assistance for the fiscal year ending September 30, 2007, and for other purposes, with the Senate amendment thereto, and to consider in the House, without intervention of any point of order, a motion offered by the chairman of the Committee on Appropriations or his designee that the House concur in the Senate amendment with the House amendments printed in the report of the Committee on Rules accompanying this resolution.  The Senate amendment and the motion shall be considered as read.  The motion shall be debatable for one hour equally divided and controlled by the chairman and ranking minority member of the Committee on Appropriations.  The previous question shall be considered as ordered on the motion to its adoption without intervening motion or demand for division of the question except that the Chair shall divide the question of adoption of the motion between the two House amendments.

    The motion seems straight forward - it will debate the Iraq Supplemental as described in the Senate Amendment.

    The vote appears to be up or down on the Sneate Amendment, i.e., the caveine bill.

    Parent

    Swanson (none / 0) (#30)
    by Edger on Thu May 24, 2007 at 12:16:15 PM EST
    If we can get enough Democrats to vote No (or filibuster), it could wreck the whole pretense. And at least we're going to have an honest vote for the first time, where everyone admits that a Yes vote is to fund the war and a No vote is to not fund the war... Unless, the Democrats make the only vote a vote on a Rule, to try to hide the war vote (this is what David Sirota claims will happen). If the Republicans vote No because they want an open debate, all of the Democrats except for the handful of them with some integrity, will have been lined up to vote Yes. Then that Yes vote will have to be depicted as (somehow) a vote to end the war by funding it. It appears more likely that, even with the vote on a rule, the Republicans will vote Yes to fund the war, and Democrats who join them will be clearly on record funding the war too.
    Link

    Parent
    Are they now just flailing blindly? (none / 0) (#3)
    by Edger on Thu May 24, 2007 at 09:30:58 AM EST
    And reduced to only trying to cover their a$$es? (none / 0) (#5)
    by Edger on Thu May 24, 2007 at 09:34:19 AM EST
    OF course (none / 0) (#9)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu May 24, 2007 at 09:36:14 AM EST
    But is this how they are doing it?

    I don't see how this does it.

    Folks who want to register a NO vote, and there will be a lot, will vote no on the rule and say that ios their NO vote on the Iraq Supplemental, making a yes vote a yes on the Iraq Supplemental.

    I don;t see the logic of the attempt here.

    Parent

    Sirota is a consistently (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by andgarden on Thu May 24, 2007 at 09:42:34 AM EST
    unreliable source of information. His heart seems in the right place, so I just don't know what the deal is with him.

    Parent
    Maybe. (none / 0) (#12)
    by Edger on Thu May 24, 2007 at 09:46:43 AM EST
    He was interpreting the article from The Hill:
    ...House Democrats also said late yesterday afternoon that they would force a September debate on two proposals governing the use of force in Iraq through the rule they set for debate on the Iraq spending bill.
    Maybe he missed?

    Parent
    Maybe he's just become (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by Edger on Thu May 24, 2007 at 09:49:33 AM EST
    cynical about the Democrats intentions. Whatever could cause that? </sarcasm>

    Parent
    I've posted a link (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by andgarden on Thu May 24, 2007 at 09:52:29 AM EST
    to the text downthread.

    Parent
    Have you (5.00 / 4) (#23)
    by taylormattd on Thu May 24, 2007 at 10:12:35 AM EST
    posted this explanation in David's diary today? I can't stand reading it. It is now filled, simply filled, with people screaming "secret vote?!" Not to mention people who are regulars at mariscat's site and Nader voters.

    The leadership and the Blue Dogs suck, but can we at least get a fact or two correct? Jesus.

    Parent

    Just posted it (5.00 / 2) (#24)
    by andgarden on Thu May 24, 2007 at 10:15:52 AM EST
    David gives what seems to be a non-explanation.
    It's this (0 / 0)
    "The Senate amendment and the motion shall be considered as read." In other words, they are agreeing to make the underlying bill the blank check.

    by davidsirota on Thu May 24, 2007 at 10:44:10 AM EDT
    [ Parent | Reply to This |Recommend  Troll ]



    Parent
    Sirota (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by vcmvo2 on Thu May 24, 2007 at 12:08:32 PM EST
    So you noticed all the greenies and malcontents too? That diary was sickening and they were all freaking out except for you, Elise, me, andgarden and a couple of others. I miss BTD at times like this unbelievably.

    Pathetic tone on dkos right now, I hardly recognize the place.

    Parent

    Maybe you nailed it upthread with (none / 0) (#10)
    by Edger on Thu May 24, 2007 at 09:40:04 AM EST
    "The vote on the rule then becomes the vote for the Iraq Supplemental."

    Logic? Pull the wool over everyone long enough to pass it, and once it's done they don't care who knows how? Can they be that arrogant?

    Parent

    Who supports the war in Iraq? (none / 0) (#17)
    by Lora on Thu May 24, 2007 at 09:55:46 AM EST
    Everyone who does not support a date certain to stop funding the war, according to BTD, yes?

    I agree.

    That would appear to be the majority of Congress.

    It could be that this approach will not work.

    Let's look at WHY, BTD.  Better than just saying, "Oh well, we tried," when it fails.  Which, I am afraid, it will.

    Fear. (5.00 / 1) (#19)
    by Edger on Thu May 24, 2007 at 10:00:51 AM EST
    They think that defunding it will cause them to lose the presidency next year.

    I think they have it backwards.

    Parent

    I think they're afraid... (5.00 / 1) (#34)
    by Lora on Thu May 24, 2007 at 07:25:43 PM EST
    ...because of the smear/brainwash campaign that the repubs are no doubt ready to unleash if they try it.

    Parent
    Whether they hide their votes or not (none / 0) (#25)
    by Militarytracy on Thu May 24, 2007 at 10:26:29 AM EST
    Dodd has already made it unneeded to wonder how he voted, he said this morning that he is voting NO.  Hillary snapped like a dry twig when asked and said that if she had something to say she would say it and Obama said he hasn't made up his mind.  With Hillary snapping like that I'm suspecting that there may be some truth to the "secret vote" rumor, what is she snapping about and why doesn't she have anything to say about the vote today?

    Gods above help me (none / 0) (#26)
    by Militarytracy on Thu May 24, 2007 at 10:33:21 AM EST
    I have Bush on CNN in the background and he was just asked a hard question about Iraq.  I didn't even hear the question but I sure hear the whining right now.  Whining?  THERE IS NO WHINING WHEN YOU ARE THE LEADER OF THE FREE WORLD!  Oops, he blew that one huh?  The rest of the free world does not care to be aligned with us these days.

    If Armstrong is right (none / 0) (#27)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu May 24, 2007 at 11:08:57 AM EST
    N]ot funding it is going to be the de facto Democratic stance by the end of the year for all of those that want the Democratic nomination, if not sooner.

    then congratuations on electing  Republican Pres and probably a Senate Majority for the Repubs in '08.

    The Demos at this time are backing away from this for a very simple reason. It is a loser.

    I don't recall (5.00 / 2) (#28)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu May 24, 2007 at 11:25:00 AM EST
    exactly if you made this prediciton, but I know many people made the same prediction in 2006 when Dems came out for endsing the Iraq Debacle, after much urging from the progressive wing of the Party.

    So, frankly, YAWN.

    Parent

    BTD (none / 0) (#31)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu May 24, 2007 at 12:50:28 PM EST
    2006 was not a Presidential election, and the individual Congress candidates weren't locked in as Armstrong claims.

    Parent
    They weren't? (none / 0) (#32)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu May 24, 2007 at 01:21:45 PM EST
    Which ones weren't?

    But please refresh my memory, did you or did you not predict Dems would lose if they ran against the Iraq debacle? Myu recollection is you did.

    Parent

    So what? (none / 0) (#33)
    by Lora on Thu May 24, 2007 at 07:17:48 PM EST
    A few more Dems won, but what have they done to end the Iraq debacle?  The non-dems who do not support defunding still have all the cards it seems.

    Parent
    The FY '08 budget (none / 0) (#35)
    by Demi Moaned on Thu May 24, 2007 at 09:19:48 PM EST
    Someone said the FY '08 budget contains full funding for the year (i.e., through end of Sept., 2008). And that bill is expected to pass without difficulty.

    Is that inaccurate information? If not, it seems like we have on short leash and then a full funding vote very soon.