Bush: Iraq Supplemental Unconstitutional

By Big Tent Democrat, Section Constitution
Posted on Wed May 02, 2007 at 12:43:30 PM EST
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In his veto message to Congress, President Bush claims the Iraq Supplemental is unconstitutional:

[T]his legislation is unconstitutional because it purports to direct the conduct of the operations of the war in a way that infringes upon the powers vested in the Presidency by the Constitution, including as Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces.

Nonsense. Here is the Iraq language in the bill. Nothing contained therein "purports to direct the conduct of the operations of the war." It purports to condition the deployment of troops in the conduct of the war by requiring the President certify that certain conditions are being met.

Article 1, Section 8 of the Constitution provides among Congress' powers, the power:

To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years

This appropriation is a direct and express exercise of that power. It clearly is constitutional.

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Bush: Iraq Supplemental Unconstitutional | 38 comments (38 topical)

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Bush is trying (5.00 / 1) (#2)
by Edger on Wed May 02, 2007 at 01:08:06 PM EST

to divert debate away from about him and his Debacle to criticism of Congress.

His insulting treatment of the public with his assumption that people are too stupid to see through him continues.

He'll always be able to find a few, but less and less every day: Who Supports Bush's Iraq Debacle?

But in the end he will lose: Defunding The Iraq War Is Supporting The Troops

Saw this one coming weeks ago (5.00 / 2) (#3)
by conchita on Wed May 02, 2007 at 01:16:30 PM EST

Let's see how the media performs for them with it.

: National Propaganda Radio (none / 0) (#19)
by dutchfox on Wed May 02, 2007 at 05:23:31 PM EST

Well, I just heard this afternoon's All Things Considered. NPR calls the Iraq Debacle not a war, not an occupation (which it is), but a mission. I'm not joking, I heard it tonight.

Hah! (5.00 / 4) (#4)
by JHFarr on Wed May 02, 2007 at 01:56:18 PM EST

Looks like Bush is still getting advice on constitutional law from Alberto.

BTD (5.00 / 5) (#7)
by Che's Lounge on Wed May 02, 2007 at 02:36:11 PM EST

You've been right all along.

Cut the goddamn money.

Yesterday.

Oh Good! (5.00 / 1) (#9)
by Militarytracy on Wed May 02, 2007 at 03:58:50 PM EST

Something else to fight about and another reason to not rush to a compromise bill! And a blatant attempt to take Nancy's new gavel away from her. I was sick and tired of the Iraq Supplemental being personal for me and the minority of Americans that are military and the voiceless Iraqis, but now maybe it is a little personal for some others as well. Maybe they are finally going to get good and pi$$ed now too and we can all shed the Kumbaya mentality! When playing with sociopaths, Kumbaya is like shooting fish in a barrel or little quail in large cages for them and they play for keeps!

Well (5.00 / 2) (#12)
by Big Tent Democrat on Wed May 02, 2007 at 04:06:40 PM EST

Bush started it . . .


Just as long as we finish it (5.00 / 3) (#13)
by Militarytracy on Wed May 02, 2007 at 04:10:11 PM EST

I'm a happy girl. I want Nancy to finish it though like I know she can finish it if she really wants to, a gavel in an unnamed place.


: With a photo op including Cheney (5.00 / 3) (#14)
by oculus on Wed May 02, 2007 at 04:20:59 PM EST

sitting close by on a sofa.

"demoralize the Iraqi people" (5.00 / 3) (#10)
by Alex DeLarge on Wed May 02, 2007 at 03:59:58 PM EST

Bush also claimed that setting a deadline would "demoralize the Iraqi people," although polls show that 87% of Iraqis favor a timetable for withdrawal, and 78% of Iraqis are opposed to our presence in the country.

Not those Iraqis, the other ones (5.00 / 1) (#11)
by Militarytracy on Wed May 02, 2007 at 04:01:59 PM EST

It's just like Bush not serving 70% of Americans, he's serving the other ones!


Tracy, that's the way it works. (1.00 / 0) (#16)
by jimakaPPJ on Wed May 02, 2007 at 04:52:40 PM EST

You see, to prevent government from turning into a popularity contest, people are elected for a fixed period of time.

What that means is that your Congressman, or woman, or the President, can have a 0/100 rating in either directon. Your option is to vote for/against at the next election.


You can't talk to me about (5.00 / 0) (#18)
by Militarytracy on Wed May 02, 2007 at 05:00:49 PM EST

popularity contests Jim, cuz I'm forever hung up on elections being popularity contests. I'm just too silly to understand


ppj always (conveeeentiently) forgets (5.00 / 2) (#21)
by Sailor on Wed May 02, 2007 at 06:55:40 PM EST

bush said iraq was a soverign government and we'd leave when they wanted us to.

Boy, oh boy, do they want us to! He also said he'd listen to the generals ... then kept firing them until he got a sock puppet.


Sailor (none / 0) (#36)
by jimakaPPJ on Thu May 03, 2007 at 09:54:18 AM EST

Perhaps you can give me a link where the PM of Iraq has asked us to leave.

Now no "polls." Let's keep the focus on "soverign government....."

You can't??

Why surprise,surprise.


: the PM is not the king of iraq (5.00 / 1) (#37)
by Sailor on Thu May 03, 2007 at 11:12:37 AM EST

Trust ppj to move the goal posts.
And as the President has indicated, if a democratically elected government or the Iraqi people were to ask us to leave, we would do so.

Sadr [who controls six Cabinet ministers and 30 seats in Iraq's parliament] and his followers faulted Maliki primarily for his refusal to distance himself from the current U.S.-led Baghdad security crackdown and the continued American military presence in Iraq.
"They carried out this invasion. Then they supported it with international resolutions. Now they talk about the political process and democracy," Ogaili said. "The invader has to leave and let Iraq live peacefully. The invader is the main problem afflicting Iraq and affecting peace."
Now GFY and advocate the murder of more American students and political leaders as you have previously.

Tracy, let ne try it this way (1.00 / 1) (#23)
by jimakaPPJ on Wed May 02, 2007 at 08:17:54 PM EST

Do you understand the difference between a Parlimentary Democracy and a Constitutional Republic?

We're not a Parlimentary Democracy.

We're a constitutional republic.

Constitutional Republics are a deliberate attempt to diminish the threat of mobocracy thereby protecting dissenting individuals and minority groups from the tyranny of the majority by placing checks on the power of the majority of the population

You would, for example, love for us to not be a constitutional republic now because a vote of no confidence would bring the government down, and the hated Bush would be gone.


Why do you Neocons always (4.00 / 0) (#24)
by Militarytracy on Wed May 02, 2007 at 08:23:41 PM EST

go to this place? It's like your happy place or something. We have elections, they are popularity contests. We just had some popularity contests and the popular people won, the public made it known why they were popular and won and what is expected of them in their new popularity!


Now they are doing it (4.00 / 0) (#25)
by Militarytracy on Wed May 02, 2007 at 08:25:56 PM EST

The unpopular guy isn't going to end up liking this much in the end, the people who made the popular people popular really don't care what the unpopular jerk likes at this point ;)


Tracy (1.00 / 0) (#28)
by jimakaPPJ on Wed May 02, 2007 at 08:58:15 PM EST

This isn't middle school...


Adult life is more about (5.00 / 1) (#32)
by Militarytracy on Thu May 03, 2007 at 04:12:37 AM EST

the same old middle school stuff than any of us adults want to admit Jim. We just use bigger words, have bigger allowances and are capable of larger scale destruction alongside our larger scale successes. Sadly not much else has changed, I guess we're slow learners.


Tracy (none / 0) (#35)
by jimakaPPJ on Thu May 03, 2007 at 09:52:12 AM EST

No, adults leave the juvenile stuff and go on.

My attempts have been to try and explain to you why polls do not matter under our Constitution, and why there is no such thing as a vote of "no confidence" requiring that elections be called.

I suspect you understand that.

Have a good day.


: With all due respect (none / 0) (#38)
by Militarytracy on Thu May 03, 2007 at 02:45:24 PM EST

most people in the mental health field would tell you that that was your ego talking. The thing that separates us the most from the little people is our size...body size, entitlement size, and the size of our egos.

Tracy (1.00 / 0) (#27)
by jimakaPPJ on Wed May 02, 2007 at 08:57:32 PM EST

You either have no understanding at all, or else you are running away and hiding.

Elections, length of terms, etc., are set by the Constitution.

Do some studying on WHY the length of the terms are what they are, and why the Senate is staggered the way it is.

The fact that you suffer from BSD has nothing to do with anything in the real world.

Bush will be Pres until 1/09 unless he is impeached.

The former will happen, the latter will not.


: Keep the faith (none / 0) (#33)
by Militarytracy on Thu May 03, 2007 at 04:14:00 AM EST

you little keeper of the flame ;)

Something's in the water. (5.00 / 3) (#30)
by Che's Lounge on Wed May 02, 2007 at 09:56:06 PM EST

You seldom defeat someone who breaks the rules by following the rules.

: I hate that part of dealing with (none / 0) (#34)
by Militarytracy on Thu May 03, 2007 at 04:19:33 AM EST

cutthroat evil a**holes more than anything. Not only am I shocked by what they are doing but I also have to do things so differently just to deal with them.

Isn't this the time to IMPEACH BUSH AND CHENEY? (5.00 / 2) (#31)
by womanwarrior on Wed May 02, 2007 at 10:53:02 PM EST

As you all point out, playing with the funding is not going to get us out of IRAQ because the President will not change his mind. We have to get the President and Vice President out of the White House. I know I come in late, but please someone tell me, why are we not opening impeachment hearings?

Look, 'dude ... (4.60 / 5) (#6)
by Meteor Blades on Wed May 02, 2007 at 02:32:07 PM EST

...the Bush Constitution is Article II, Sentence 1.

Period.

The rest has been excised by a signing statement you probably didn't hear about.

: Heh (none / 0) (#8)
by Big Tent Democrat on Wed May 02, 2007 at 03:28:54 PM EST

You know, I wrote that Kennedy's attempt to stop the escalation/Surge was not constitutional.
This is diferent.

What has George W. Bush Wrought? (1.00 / 2) (#1)
by Loftlore on Wed May 02, 2007 at 12:55:02 PM EST

What has George Bush wrought?
While watching Joe Scarborough of MSNBC last night (May 1st 2007) it occurred to me that George W. Bush has wrought many changes in the American political landscape. I imagine that almost all of these changes were unintentional.
First, George Bush changed me. I have been aware of politics for many years but I was not politically active. I've never failed to vote in a national election. I have voted in every local election that I was aware of. Yet I was not ACTIVE in politics the way I am now. It would never have occurred to me to write my local newspaper's editor. I have done so several times since Bush took office. I have never actively protested anything. Though it put my health and wellbeing at risk, I went to Washington D. C. to march against George Bush. I've never before been a due-paying member of a political party. I now belong to the National and Michigan State Democrat party. For goodness sake, I lost sixty pounds, started exercising and generally pay closer attention to my health so as to be a better and more lasting opponent of George Bush! Finally, I've written three fantasy novels. The last two of the works were deeply affected by the problems I foresaw in having a faith-based President in the White House.
Bush has wrought changes in Government. He has shown how dangerous it is to have a Congress that's not divided in its will from that of the Presidency. Bush has demonstrated how damming it is to have a Congress that does not attend to its oversight responsibilities. He has proven the axiom that absolute power corrupts absolutely.
George Bush has shown the nation how disturbing and destructive the results of voter fraud can be.
George Bush has single-handedly made, through his puppet-master Dick Cheney, the office of the Vice President the most loathed and suspiciously watched elected office in the world.
George Bush has changed the media. He was there at the rise, and is present at the fall, of the radical right, politically opportunistic, neo-con-led news media. FOX Noise is an arch-typical example of the extremes and excesses of a state-controlled mass media. One result of the Bush Administration strangle hold on information is the birth of new freedom-truth tellers. New programming had to be invented because the old media is gagged! Outlets like Link Television and Free Speech T. V., Air America (with its delightful Randi Rhodes) are freedom's response to a White House-run media. These progressive news/talk outlets and the rise of many, many more progressive voices are reactions to the trauma that is the Bush Presidency. Keith Olbermann of MSNBC is a voice I hadn't heard before the ascendancy of Bush. These days I thank goodness five days a week for Mr. Olbermann's voice!
The jerk-to-the-right shift of the American Legion was and is a part of the Bush legacy. In the interest of full disclosure I should say that I am an American Legionnaire. I have viewed the collapse of The American Legion into the arms of despot George W. Bush with dismay. The good side of that patriot-coin is the large number of Iraqi veterans coming over to the Democratic Party. They men and women consist of a new generation here to help. They are a rebirth of freedom. They are here to run for political office AGAINST the Republicans.
Mr. Bush-Blunt-tool (Karl, you know of whom I speak), thought to chisel-out a permanent Republican majority. Instead he and like-minded "Bushes" have slaughtered conservative thought, soiled the radical right wing that is the Christian agenda, corrupted many of Conservatism's staunchest power brokers and sent some of then to prison!
George Bush has managed to do what no nation on the Earth could have done. Bush has annihilated the U. S. Military!
Bush has, with the help of his criminal mastermind Dick Cheney, brought about the rise of Senator Barack Obama and Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton. Simply being close to Bush and/or his policies has ruined the likes of John McCain and Colin Powell. Bush has made Hugo Chaves, President of Venezuela, look impossibly good. Bush has made Communist China look wholesome, successful and enviable! Bush has made the new dictatorship of Vladimir Putin possible! George Bush destroyed his war-buddy Prime Minister Tony Blair of England! Incredibly, our President has alienated most of this planet's nations.
George Bush has given this nation a war that may NEVER end. Certainly the effects of the war on Iraq will be felt for generations.
Considering religion's roll in all this, the president may have lost an entire generation of young people to the church. He may have returned a lost generation of Southerners to the Democrats (this is yet to be fully seen).
William F. Buckley, archconservative, recently wondered aloud if George Bush hasn't killed the Republican Party PERMANENTLY!

The changes wrought by George W. Bush seem countless. The length of his somber litany of harm done is deeply depressing. George Bush has indeed wrought some mighty changes in the world. I am certain he planned almost none of them. The length and breath of this one man's failures are quite historic and the nightmare is not yet over.

by author from the origional at loftlore.com/blog

: Thanks (5.00 / 2) (#5)
by manys on Wed May 02, 2007 at 02:32:02 PM EST

Thanks for the offtopic cut-and-paste blogspam. You're a credit to your cause.

Moot (none / 0) (#15)
by jimakaPPJ on Wed May 02, 2007 at 04:48:19 PM EST

I have no idea if the bill is constitutional, or not. I think it is not, but that really is moot.

A President doesn't have to have a reason to veto.

It is his right. All he has to do is return it within 10 days..

with his Objections to that House in which it shall have originated

Try the topic for a change (5.00 / 2) (#22)
by Sailor on Wed May 02, 2007 at 06:58:55 PM EST

I have no idea if the bill is constitutional

The post is about bush saying it was unconstitutional, you admit your ignorance but as always go off topic.

WTF isn't ppj considered a troll or a limited chatterer!?

Anyone? Bueller, Bueller, BTD?


: Sailor, Try telling the truth (1.00 / 2) (#29)
by jimakaPPJ on Wed May 02, 2007 at 09:05:01 PM EST

That isn't what I wrote, and you know it. Good grief, it was only 3" above. I wrote:

I have no idea if the bill is constitutional, or not. I think it is not, but that really is moot
Look at: "I think it is not." That is a direct comment on BTD's claim.
Look at" "but that really is moot"
That is a direct comment on Bush's claim, and BTD's claim. Both are MOOT.
I then back it up with a quote from the Constitution.
Your continual slurs are amusing. This is the third time today I have shown that you don't read, just attack.
Why don't YOU make a comment on the TOPIC. That is, if you can.

It's not nonsense (none / 0) (#17)
by koshembos on Wed May 02, 2007 at 04:57:03 PM EST

Bush talk is not nonsense; it's worst propaganda used by a democratic government ever.

It was obviously a political statement (none / 0) (#20)
by andgarden on Wed May 02, 2007 at 05:54:30 PM EST

Kargo and friends seem to take Pelosi's suggestion of a law suit seriously. Not thinking, indeed.

NBC Seattle News - Thug Frames Win (none / 0) (#26)
by seabos84 on Wed May 02, 2007 at 08:29:49 PM EST

I hate to report it.

full disclosure - I have beeeeeeeeeeeeeen underwhelmed by Nancy and Harry for a loooooooooooong time.

tonight was a night to hit the frames outta the park, and they f$$$ing blew it. IF they don't play patty cake with bush, then they ain't finding common ground.

for months ... years I've been irritated with Dem inability to do message worth a crap, and then today, it dawned on me ...

do I want a Secretary of Speech for the Dems? uh, no.

BUT

IF our people were competent at message, outta the daily cacophy would come the ringing phrase, the inspiring sound,

the right way to paint the righties into their fascist little caves.

I'm so discouraged by their failures to fight these soul-less s.o.b.s AND

I so soooooooooooo sick of the noblier-than-thou excuses:

we are smart, we are ethical, we are noble, we are selfless ...

who f$$$ing cares. we are losers.

rmm.