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Bush as the Biggest Coyote Of Them All

By Jeralyn, Section Civil Liberties
Posted on Mon Apr 09, 2007 at 01:45:00 AM EST
Tags: immigrants, immigration reform (all tags)
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As President Bush turns his attention to immigration reform this week, his plans to overtax the undocumented drew thousands in protest this weekend.

As to his plan:

The White House's draft plan, leaked last week, calls for a new "Z" visa that would allow illegal immigrant workers to apply for three-year work permits. They would be renewable indefinitely, but would cost $3,500 each time.

Then to become legal permanent residents, illegal immigrants would have to return to their home country, apply at a U.S. Embassy or consulate to re-enter legally and pay a $10,000 fine.

In plain English, what's the difference between Bush and a coyote?

"Charging that much, Bush is going to be even more expensive than the coyotes," said Armando Garcia, 50, referring to smugglers who transport people across the Mexican border. "He will become the No. 1 coyote."

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    Bush as the Biggest Coyote Of Them All | 45 comments (45 topical)

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    Are you Joking? (5.00 / 1) (#2)
    by squeaky on Mon Apr 09, 2007 at 07:30:27 AM EST
    Bank robbers are looking to make a dishonest living and undocumented workers anr looking to make an honest living, for starters.

    squeaky is wrong. (1.00 / 1) (#12)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Apr 09, 2007 at 08:50:32 AM EST
    So breaking the law in the process of making a living is "legal?"

    Wrong, of course.

    Parent

    Then why do you use products... (none / 0) (#38)
    by Dadler on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 08:38:19 AM EST
    ...that are the product of illegal working conditions?  As in all your produce, for one.  Or do you pay a little more to buy from a non-exploiting local farmer?

    Parent
    Southwestern girl (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by westhighlandblue on Mon Apr 09, 2007 at 08:20:25 AM EST
    Having grown up in the Southwest, the rest of the country's xenophobia toward undocumented workers is very puzzling.  In my nearly fifty years, I have found subrosa immigrants from our Southern neighbors to be hardworking, law abiding members of society who improve property values in dodgy neighborhoods and provide their new communities with a cost effective labor source.  They typically rise to the middle class in a single generation, and make everyone around them proud that the American Dream of prosperity through hard work is still very much alive.

    Same experience in NYC restaurants. (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by lilybart on Mon Apr 09, 2007 at 08:34:59 AM EST
    I have worked in NYC restaurants for decades and the Domincan kitchen help always showed up, did a great job and they pool their resources into their own sort of bank, where they lend to each other to buy a home or start a business.

    They ARE the American dream.

    Parent

    westhigh... (1.00 / 1) (#14)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Apr 09, 2007 at 08:55:54 AM EST
    That rosy picture is not 100% accurate, but it is to the extent that the illegal aliens are just humans, no more, no less with all the faults and all the good that we all have.

    But that isn't the point.

    The point is that their influx is lowering the wage standards and destroying the economic opportunities of our own citizens.

    If a country can not protect its citizens, what reason is there for its existence??

    Parent

    Talk to the employers. (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by lilybart on Mon Apr 09, 2007 at 10:17:21 AM EST
    Your focus is wrong. If no one employed illegal workers, then there would be no good reason to come here.

    People do what they have to do to feed their families. It is management that is the problem (if there is one) and lack of protections for workers.

    If the current laws were enforced on the employers, then these jobs would no longer exist.

    Stop blaming poor people who just need to make a living, risking their lives to get here.

    Parent

    not quite (1.00 / 1) (#32)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Apr 09, 2007 at 12:17:01 PM EST
    If no one employed illegal workers, then there would be no good reason to come here.

    Partly true, and I have commented time and again that the the employers should be locked up.

    But that still wouldn't stop the influx as long as people can obtain false IDs, etc.

    I blame no one, but neither do I place a mantle of goodness around them. They're people. Their actions may be understood in relation to their needs, but that doesn't mean they our needs and theirs match.


    Parent

    A mantle of goodness?? (none / 0) (#39)
    by Dadler on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 08:40:47 AM EST
    What the hell is that??  If they are human beings, no more or no less, then they are just as good as they rest of us.

    Also, locking up employers will do nothing, making them PAY will.  As long as employers in these businesses don't want to pay Americans a livable American wage, well, the tide will keep coming.  

    It's called greed.  And that's unfettered capitalism.

    Parent

    Huh?? (1.00 / 1) (#21)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Apr 09, 2007 at 09:56:22 AM EST
    In plain English, what's the difference between Bush and a coyote?

    A whole bunch, but to name one.

    The difference is that the end result of Bush's "plan" is that the illegal alien becomes a citizen.

    The coyote's plan is that he may, or may not, get the person into the country alive where they are "illegal aliens."

    Risky (none / 0) (#23)
    by squeaky on Mon Apr 09, 2007 at 10:03:48 AM EST
    With Bush's plan as well. There is the part where they have to pay back the loanshark. Same life or death connundrum.

    Parent
    Huh?? (1.00 / 1) (#22)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Apr 09, 2007 at 10:01:58 AM EST
    In plain English, what's the difference between Bush and a coyote?

    A whole bunch, but to name one.

    The difference is that the end result of Bush's "plan" is that the illegal alien becomes a citizen.

    The coyote's plan is that he may, or may not, get the person into the country alive where they are "illegal aliens."

    on the positive side............... (none / 0) (#1)
    by cpinva on Mon Apr 09, 2007 at 07:23:50 AM EST
    you probably won't die of dehydration with bush.

    ok, i'll bite, aside from the fact that they don't have nearly as much money, and they probably don't wear funny masks, what makes illegal aliens any different from bank robbers?

    Illegal workers GIVE back plenty (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by lilybart on Mon Apr 09, 2007 at 08:38:11 AM EST
    A bank robber only takes.

    Would you want to work in a unregulated meat or chicken factory, doing the dirtiest most dangerous jobs for very little pay, no benefits and slave conditions of ownership for the employer?

    It is disgusting that you would think these people don't work hard, very hard, at jobs with pesticide poisoning, long hours, 7 day weeks, no rights. They give back plenty---their health, blood sweat and tears for very little pay.

    Wake up and look around.

    Parent

    lilybart (1.00 / 1) (#11)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Apr 09, 2007 at 08:49:19 AM EST
    At one time the meat packing industry was one of the most highly unionized and highest paid.

    The influx of illegal aliens has destroyed that while letting you enjoy the fruits of their labor.

    So let's protect them by sending them back to their country where they can do whatever is necessary to reform their own government.

    Perhaps you, and someother, can go to Mexico and teach them how to demonstrate, march and protest until their society protects them.

    Parent

    Jiminy (none / 0) (#15)
    by Skyho on Mon Apr 09, 2007 at 09:01:54 AM EST
    The influx of illegal aliens has destroyed that while letting you enjoy the fruits of their labor.

    Oh, Jiminy.  You just hit on the cause for illegal immigration.

    It was management that brought them across the border and "hired" the strikebreakers, Mr. Ignorant.

    Hail to the Chief.   Hail to management.  Blame it on those pesky unions.  Yeah.  That works.

    So let's protect them by sending them back to their country where they can do whatever is necessary to reform their own government.

    Saving Mexico would first require severing ties with the US including trashing all treaties.  Joining with Venezuela and Cuba, a real OAS could become a world power rivaling the EU.  Second, rescind Paraguays non-extradition treaties to give the Bush bare-assed emperor no place to hide.

    Parent

    skyhoimmy (1.00 / 1) (#25)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Apr 09, 2007 at 10:14:23 AM EST
    So your contention is that a cabal of management types for different companies and established an organzation that brought in illegal aliens??

    Wow. Who knew??

    Where was Batman when all of this was going on??

    Now, if you want to say that various companies' managment types have taken advantage of the fact that the illegal aliens have been allowed to slip across by the lack of action by our government... okay.. (Batman go home.)

    And I don't care how they fix their problem, as long as they do it.

    However, I think first they need to change their culture into one based more on the english yeoman rather than the Spainish/Portugal example.

    (person who owns and cultivates a small farm; specifically : one belonging to a class of English freeholders below the gentry)

    That would be interesting to watch.

    Parent

    cricket (none / 0) (#34)
    by Skyho on Mon Apr 09, 2007 at 01:52:06 PM EST
    I can name three management groups who are alleged to have done so, two are meatpackers.  Once one group is successful, then others, claiming they cannot survive not to do the same, do it.  No "cabal" necessary.

    However, I think first they need to change their culture into one based more on the english yeoman rather than the Spainish/Portugal example.

    (person who owns and cultivates a small farm; specifically : one belonging to a class of English freeholders below the gentry)

    I have no idea what fantasy world includes a "Spainish/Portugal" example.  Could you please explain?  The Iberian peninsula includes quite disparate societal worlds.  This should be good.

    You might wish to visit Mexico at some point in your lifetime.  Mingle.  You might find out that prior to NAFTA, nearly every farmer owned their land, a middle class, yeoman?.  After NAFTA, they had to sell their land for centavos on the peso, the competition (US combines) literally drove millions out of business.

    You may wish to travel a little.  The knowledge you gain from interacting with the "natives" cannot be learned from a book.  Warning, brushing up with reality likely will change your views to a more "progressive" slant.

    Parent

    skyho (none / 0) (#45)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 10:04:13 AM EST
    You might find out that prior to NAFTA, nearly every farmer owned their land

    And since then they have lost it??

    Mexico, England, Ireland, Scotland, Spain, Germany, Italy, Soviet Union and about a half dozen more....plus living all over the US..so I think I have "traveled." Probably more than you.

    If you look at the countries in CA and SA, plus Mexico you will see that they have a culture that goes back to Spain, Portugal and a dominating Catholic Church. That is just a fact. It has nothing to do with "right vs wrong." And none of them has an economy that can be described as having been "stable" over the past 50 years.

    Compare them to the US and Canada, which has a culture that goes back to England and basically Northern Europe (Italy noted). Neither the US or Canada had a Catholic Church domination, despite the church's position in some of the countries. (France, Ireland, Italy).

    Parent

    I don't eat "factory" meat or poultry. (none / 0) (#24)
    by lilybart on Mon Apr 09, 2007 at 10:14:23 AM EST
    I do not buy this disgusting excuse for food. I will not by food created through cruelty, from feeding them unnatural food to giving them antibiotics because all the animals are sick.

    Americans should all eat much less meat and poultry, from small family farms. We should support the small farmer, not the factory farm.

    Parent

    I agree. (1.00 / 1) (#31)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Apr 09, 2007 at 12:11:50 PM EST
    I grow a large vegetable garden, can, freeze, etc., plus kill a beef and a hog...

    Problem is, not everyone has the facilities to do that.

    Plus, the population explosion means that we are going to have to:

    reduce population

    use factory farms

    See the connection between illegal aliens and????

    Parent

    No, Jim (none / 0) (#40)
    by Dadler on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 08:53:54 AM EST
    The connection is the one you FAIL to make between the capitalism you love (that we all love in one for or another) and its desire to suck as much profit as it can at the EXPENSE of a stable society.  That is how it works.  

    The right in this country has done everything it can to destroy unions, didn't think employees deserved that kind of organizing power and leverage, and they did so with foreign exploited labor.  Or do you believe that all those union workers just quit?  They were thrown out so companies could make more money on the backs of people with no rights.  And they were enabled by a laissez-faire economic policy, which always sides with profit above social stability, human good, justice.

    Also, glad to hear you grow food (and I must rescind my earlier post regarding that aspect).  But how do you square that will all the other products you buy that come at a great human cost?  With a love for WalMart, which represents the nickel and diming of the American worker into oblivion.  And if you reply with low prices for everyone, you know that's not an acceptable answer, as those low prices come because someone else, a worker, is being used like a draught animal, paid inferior wages.  

    Until we as CONSUMERS demand fair treatment and livable wages for all employees, the beat will continue as it has.  That's the society we live in, bud.  Buy buy buy, use use use, consume consume consume.  We are taught and encouraged to waste and squander from the minute we are born into this culture.  And business operates on the same paradigm related to profit -- workers second, money first.  Not realizing that nickel and diming your workers creates fewer people to actually buy your products.  It's a circle that will never end until WE decide that WE are part of the problem and the biggest part of the solution.

    Parent

    dadler (none / 0) (#46)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 10:29:37 AM EST
    You know, sometimes when I'm playing out west we need to get together for a beer and I will pour some knowledge into you. ;-)

    It is the purpose of government to regulate commerce, and it does so. Your complaints were mostly addressed 50 to 100 years ago.

    That the regulation is not perfect, and that the results are not perfect is true. But they have provided a better society and a better life for the citizens than full fledged socialism and communism.

    Manufacturing and other low skill jobs flow to the lowest cost area. Twenty five years ago that was Japan and then it moved into SE Asia. In clothing we used to make it all. Then it moved. The results were terrible quality. So the "skill" job of patterns and cutting was moved back... Yes, it was cheaper to cut it here, ship it there for sewing and then back. Automated cutting changed that.

    You enjoy the Internet because of something called CRB, or "cheap reliable bit." That came about because the government broke up Ma Bell and the resulting market explosion is still dropping electronic prices.

    WalMart exists because they drove prices down. You may decry the loss of the family owned store, but I heard a store owner say during the troubled time when my Dad's job was being unionized, "A man aint worth more than a dollar an hour..."

    That should tell you that the owner was benefiting from cheap labor. The union ended that, and eventually moved the job to a cheaper location where it will, in turn, be moved to another.

    The hard facts are that once you start micromanaging the cost of a product for whatever reason, the market will simply run around you.

    That may be harsh from time to time, but no one has yet figured out a better way that worked.

    I again refer you to socialism, comminism, etc.

    Parent

    Well, there was Robin Hood and (none / 0) (#13)
    by Peaches on Mon Apr 09, 2007 at 08:54:45 AM EST
    Pretty Boy Floyd

    But a many a starving farmer
    The same old story told
    How the outlaw paid their mortgage
    And saved their little homes.

    Others tell you 'bout a stranger
    That come to beg a meal,
    Underneath his napkin
    Left a thousand dollar bill.

    It was in Oklahoma City,
    It was on a Christmas Day,
    There was a whole car load of groceries
    Come with a note to say:

    Well, you say that I'm an outlaw,
    You say that I'm a thief.
    Here's a Christmas dinner
    For the families on relief.

    Yes, as through this world I've wandered
    I've seen lots of funny men;
    Some will rob you with a six-gun,
    And some with a fountain pen.

    And as through your life you travel,
    Yes, as through your life you roam,
    You won't never see an outlaw
    Drive a family from their home.



    Parent
    wealth transfer??? (1.00 / 1) (#29)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Apr 09, 2007 at 11:01:52 AM EST
    Of course there wasn't any Federal Insurance protecting the depositors who had their bank robbed....

    Parent
    Oh well, (none / 0) (#30)
    by Peaches on Mon Apr 09, 2007 at 11:11:51 AM EST
    What can I say?

    Its a folk song.

    Parent

    What makes.... (none / 0) (#3)
    by kdog on Mon Apr 09, 2007 at 08:06:22 AM EST
    our government any different than a mafia protection racket?

    Parent
    It's about his legacy (none / 0) (#5)
    by fafnir on Mon Apr 09, 2007 at 08:30:41 AM EST
    "His plans to overtax [illegals]"? Overtax?

    Despite that illegals consume more of the common wealth than they contribute, the real point here is that Democrats should be throwing Bush a lead anvil, not an amnesty life line.

    The Democrats should not rush to save Bush's legacy. They should let him sink, especially after his recent poke-in-the-eye appointment of Sam Fox as ambassador to Belgium.

    Illegals pay taxes (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by lilybart on Mon Apr 09, 2007 at 08:33:14 AM EST
    that they never see. If they work with a fake SS number, money goes to SS and they will never draw on that money. Same with all the FICA deductions.

    And if they are being paid off the books, then how can they be considered repsonsible for taxes and benefits? Only the employer benefits.

    Parent

    Does not compute (1.00 / 1) (#16)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Apr 09, 2007 at 09:05:58 AM EST
    FICA is social security. There is also medicare taxes that are a separate line item. (Look at your paycheck.)

    Millions of people pay more into social security than they get back, so there is nothing new there.

    As for taxes, exactly.

    Since they are illegal, their tax payments do not go to the federal, state and local governments that are providing them with various benefits... starting with a society that is mostly fair and safe, ending with ERs and schools for their children. They do pay sales taxes, but only on the money they keep and spend in the US. A huge portion is sent out of the country to their families in their home country.

    Here is a link that will provide details on the cost of illegal aliens.

    Parent

    Sorry, you are wrong again. (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by lilybart on Mon Apr 09, 2007 at 10:23:30 AM EST
    If I rent an apartment, the owner is paying the property taxes. So the taxes for the schools are paid. Same if an illegal rents an apartment, taxes get paid.

    Unemployment insurance is also deducted from checks. And they pay for Medicare in their checks as well. So like any other poor person in America, legal or not, they pay their share of taxes for services like schools, emergency medical and SS for others.

    Again, stop dumping this all on people who have few other choices to feed and clothe their families.

    Parent

    ok (1.00 / 1) (#33)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Apr 09, 2007 at 12:26:30 PM EST
    We were discussing payroll taxes, I threw in the sales taxes... The property tax is paid by your illegal alien by his payment to the owner.. That is still way below the actual cost...

    Again. I am not "dumping." These are just facts.

    The citizens of this country do not owe the citizens of other countries anything. The fact that they need to feed themselves doesn't change that.

    Or do you think we should just open the borders and take in the billions who would arrive??

    Parent

    Jiminy (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by Skyho on Mon Apr 09, 2007 at 02:29:10 PM EST
    The property tax is paid by your illegal alien by his payment to the owner.. That is still way below the actual cost...

    Again. I am not "dumping." These are just facts.

    Huh?  I know quite a few landlords, including myself, who take issue with your statement, and your fantasy "facts".

    My tenents rents pay the taxes on the building in which they live.  In fact, because "ownership" is encouraged in many cases, the tax rate for commercial is many times higher than that for single family or condo ownership, therefore, renters, in effect, pay higher property taxes than those who own their own homes.

    All of my tenents are "legal" for the moment, responsible for many taxes.

    What you may wish to investigate are tax avoidance mechanisms corporations use to create their own welfare state.

    The citizens of this country do not owe the citizens of other countries anything.

    Depends what you mean.  If other people starve because we demand cheap melons, then we have problems.   Sacking another countries economy (Iraq) to profit US corporations sucking at the US public teats (oil combines for one) is wrong if it causes organ damage, remember?

    Or do you think we should just open the borders and take in the billions who would arrive??

    The vast majority (of latins) prefer to work in the US and send their money home, where they keep their home.  The money goes a lot further than way than if they set up roots in the US.  Just like the economy that as more come across the border, the preceived income disparity grows smaller and therefore "going norte" becomes less useful.

    Wingnuts spout the capitalism mantra all the time yet ignore it when it does not comport with their worldview.  I think they live for confrontation, not to be confused with competition.

    Parent

    skyhoiny (none / 0) (#36)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Apr 09, 2007 at 03:28:26 PM EST
    We were discussing payroll taxes, I threw in the sales taxes... The property tax is paid by your illegal alien by his payment to the owner.. That is still way below the actual cost..

    Let's get in context, with what preceeds your quote. My comment refers to all taxes versus cost.. btw, you have to go back one more comment to really get the context..

    And btw - You don't use legal tax avoidance laws??

    I know of no way that anyone's demand for anything cheap can be forced on anyone. Do you opine that there is a melon brigade that goes to Mexico and forces people to come north? Do they come north to pick melons cheaply or do they come north bringing cheap melons??

    Your comment re Iraq is just so out of sight that well, it is hard to read without laughing, much less actually answer.

    Again, where is Batman when we need him?

    You know, I have commented time and again that I would start with closing the border and closing down the employers. If that is a problem to you, so be it.

    Parent

    Re: Illegals pay taxes (none / 0) (#19)
    by fafnir on Mon Apr 09, 2007 at 09:15:31 AM EST
    I didn't say illegals don't pay taxes; I said that they contribute less to the common wealth than use (medical, education, transportation, etc.)

    Those illegals who gain employment using someone else's identity are committing identity fraud and should be held accountable along with residing in the US illegally. Illegal employers who hire illegal aliens should be heavily fined and jailed.

    I don't care if illegals are paid on or off the books; they're here illegally and they need to go home. Illegal employers and illegal aliens help drive down wages for low-wage jobs and discourage employers from hiring legal immigrants and native born workers at a fair wage.

    Parent

    Then change your society (none / 0) (#41)
    by Dadler on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 08:59:23 AM EST
    Capitalism, which we are in no mood to tinker with ever for some reason, REQUIRES exploitation to operate as we operate it.  Don't like it, then support unions for American workers, livable wages for ALL jobs.  Force your government to stop f*cking with other people's countries.  We are the ones who make the change, no one else.  So make it.

    Parent
    Dadler (none / 0) (#44)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 09:49:06 AM EST
    Have you ever actually worked for a company/corp for a period of time long enough to have what could be called, "some experience?"

    Capitalism.....REQUIRES exploitation to operate as we operate it.

    That is such an overhead charge, it defies belief.

    Don't like your job? Then quit. Unions? We have'em. That they are declining in number and power in the private sector while increasing in the public speaks  to government problems, not capitalism per se.

    Your positions, and many like you, aren't consistent.

    You demand that illegal aliens have the right to come and go, while blaming capitalism.

    If capitalism had been allowed to florish in Mexico, they wouldn't be having the problems they have now and the millions coming north would be staying home.

    Parent

    Why is the $10,000 a FINE? (none / 0) (#6)
    by lilybart on Mon Apr 09, 2007 at 08:31:29 AM EST
    If an immigrant applies for the temp worker plan, pays the $3500, then follows directions and returns home to apply for permanent residency, why is there a FINE?

    Whta have they done wrong?

    Because they broke the law. (1.00 / 1) (#17)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Apr 09, 2007 at 09:06:27 AM EST


    Parent
    What have they done wrong? (none / 0) (#10)
    by jblanch3 on Mon Apr 09, 2007 at 08:38:45 AM EST

    For starters, came here illegally, didn't have to pay taxes on their income, probably used our medical system, likely sent some of their income to their family in the south, if they came here with their family (mainly children), sent them to our schools without paying their share in property tax.  

    As a previous poster said, the average immigrant likely consumes more in government services than they contribute to them.  That's why I don't find a fine objectionable.  If anything, I still find it too lenient.  

    Parent

    blanch (none / 0) (#20)
    by Skyho on Mon Apr 09, 2007 at 09:29:08 AM EST
    didn't have to pay taxes on their income

    Take-home expenses are even less then if they had to pay taxes.  The only people to benefit are corporations and small businesses, not the illegals themselves.

    probably used our medical system

    Most likely not.  Despite working jobs not covered by insurance in extremely unsafe conditions, a visit to a doctor/hospital could become very complicated and for that reason many will not get themselves treated, if they could afford it, anyway.  If the kids attend our schools, why would you not want to insure they have proper health care so as to not infect entire schools?

    if they came here with their family (mainly children), sent them to our schools without paying their share in property tax

    and how would they "register" the kids for public schools without "outing" themselves?  Many send their kids to private schools.

    There are ways to do it but it requires public school adminstrators overlook obvious signs, like fake SSNs, addresses, etc.

    I'll have to qualify my comments by stating I have lived with "illegals" for decades in SoCal and see the current hype fostered by that cretin Issa to provide cover for the firing of Carol Lam.  I just hope the Dems can force the Bush admin to own this particular canard.

    Parent

    You are wrong across the board. (1.00 / 0) (#37)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 08:27:21 AM EST
    In the so-called "Sanctuary Cities" the police, medical facilities, schools, etc, are specifically directed to NOT question the citizenship status of suspected illegal aliens and to NOT refer them to ICE.

    This gives the illegal aliens an open and protected entrance into these facilities.

    Further, these so called sanctuary cities provide an easy breeding place for crime and criminal actions.

    The cross-pollination of terrorism and illegal immigration is exemplified in the links between al Qaeda and Salvadoran criminal gangs operating throughout the Americas. These gangs are especially active in metropolitan Washington, D.C. and Los Angeles, California. Adnan G. El Shukrijumah, a top al Qaeda operative, has been working with the Mara Salvatrucha ("Salvadorian Gang" or M-13) that controls alien smuggling routes into the United States from Mexico. M-13 has a strong presence in sanctuary states such as Alaska, Illinois, Maryland, New York and Oregon and sanctuary cities such as Atlanta, Chicago, and Detroit. The Washington Times (March 2005) reports 5,000 M-13 members in metropolitan Washington, D.C., and 20,000 M-13 nationally. Later that month, 35 M-13 were arrested by federal agents in Washington, D.C., and Baltimore - two sanctuary cities. They were responsible for at least seven murders in Washington plus crimes, such as rape, carjackings, extortion, alien smuggling, and aggravated assaults. Such Latin American gangs transplanted to the United States constitute a national security threat.

    Link


    Parent

    Bush's Immigration Plan (none / 0) (#28)
    by Gabriel Malor on Mon Apr 09, 2007 at 10:36:39 AM EST
    Like most political programs the Bush immigration plan gets some things right and some things wrong. As I've said several times here at TalkLeft, immigration reform needs to do several things: (1) actually secure borders; (2) punish lawbreakers; and (3) deal with illegal aliens inside the U.S.

    The securing borders and punishing lawbreakers potions are important because if they go unfinished, the problem of continuous illegal border crossings will go on, regardless of what we do about illegal aliens in the U.S. That's essentially support for the status quo--something less than ideal for U.S. citizens and illegal aliens alike.

    The third element, dealing with illegal aliens inside the U.S., is important because these folks are prevented from actually joining our society because of the fact that they must hide from immigration enforcement. They are prevented from accessing basic social services and suffer many harms as a result.

    So, for me, Bush's plan is graded on how well it accomplishes these goals. For the type of plan I'm at least not opposed to, see here. From what I can tell, Bush's plan, at a minimum, pays lip service to my concerns about securing the border. Where the Bush plan may be running off the rails is when it comes to punishing illegal activity.

    "Illegal activity" in the context of immigration comes in at least three flavors: (1) the illegal activity of illegal aliens; (2) the illegal activity of their facilitators, that is, employers, forgers, etc.; and (3) the illegal activity of those who prey on illegal aliens. The Bush plan appears to deal harshly with at least the first two flavors.

    President Bush feels strongly that illegal aliens inside the U.S. need a status change; they need to become, somehow, legal immigrants or legal nonimmigrants. But the proposed Z visa and LPR plan may be an example of a cure being worse than the disease.

    There comes a point where the fine for illegal activity becomes so large that it deters illegal aliens from taking advantage of the relief it offers. We had a form of relief, similar to that proposed by the Bush plan, that allowed those illegal aliens who had family immigrant petitions to adjust their status to that of LPRs so long as they pay a $1,000 fine.

    In essence, their violations of law are forgiven in exchange for $1,000. Let's set aside the fact that this type of exchange reduces serious violations of law to a mere dollar amount. The $1,000 didn't appear to be a deterrent and was, in fact, lauded as both a fundraiser and a reasonable recognition that some penalty for breaking the law is necessary.

    Here, however the financial penalties are much larger. The Z visa is extremely costly even for a single application, which only lasts three years. To actually get LPR status a further $10,000 must be paid. That is almost certainly enough to deter folks from taking advantage of it. What makes it even less likely to work is the fact that the Bush plan requires that the alien return to his country of origin for consular processing.

    Such processing can take quite some time. That is time in which the illegal alien may be prohibited from re-admission (I'd have to see the text of the plan to have a better idea of the consequences).

    Overall, I think the Bush plan will fail to provide a solution to the shadow-population problem. And, to be honest, I'm not really holding my breath that he is serious about securing the border, either. In short, I think this is a problem for a different president.

    We're all full of it (none / 0) (#42)
    by Dadler on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 09:02:36 AM EST
    We want all our cake and to eat it to.  We want all our cheap products, but don't want to deal with the humanity or inhumanity surrounding their manufacture.  Are we all willing to live with much less in our lives?  Are we willing to minimalize, not use use use, buy buy buy, consume consume consume?  If not, nothing will change, since exploitation is necessary to feed our fat, lazy, gluttonous American lifestyles.

    Oh, I know Jim, you don't live that lifestyle, it's just everyone else.  Just like everything.  It's always someone else, never you or I.

    Don't like capitalism, then change it.

    And I must say... (none / 0) (#43)
    by Dadler on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 09:33:00 AM EST
    ...when our own nation is illegally in another nation militarily, killing and destroying and bringing chaos to an ancient society, I cannot take anyone's yapping about illegal immigration in the U.S. seriously.  

    The moral disconnect between supporting this illegal war and moaning about illegal immigrants is distubingly and absurdly comical.


    Bush as the Biggest Coyote Of Them All | 45 comments (45 topical)

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