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A Netroots Identity Crisis

At Daily Kos, Welshman provides strong evidence that he misunderstands the only effective role the Netroots can play to promote progressivism. He bemoans the mean attacks on Speaker Nancy Pelosi, arguing, more or less, that she is doing the best she can.

MORE on why Welshman is wrong on the other side.

It is unfortunate though that the critques of the diary in the comments thread are rather wild and ineffective. Impeachment? Raising money for Al Wynn? Is that really where Pelosi is failing? Puhleeeaze. The reason Dems won in 2006 was the promise to end the Debacle in Iraq. It is obvious, as I have written in the past, that the Congress can not enact its agenda. But what it CAN do is stop the Bush agenda. It can end the war - by not funding it. It can not grant extraordinary powers to the President to engage in warrantless surveillance. It can disapprove of torture and not approve an AG nominee who will not say waterboarding is torture. It can prevent the most egregious excesses by the worst Administration in history. The Congress has done none of these things.

But let's suppose, for the sake of argument, the Welshman is right. That Pelosi is doing all she can. If the Netroots wants to change the field of play, what would be the smartest course of action. Should it rationalize away the failures of the Congress, as the Welshman suggests? Should it say, 'oh well, that's all they can do?' Should it settle? Of course not. The Netroots and the progressive base is the left flank of the Democratic Party. If they accept the status quo, then no progressive change will EVER occur. The proper role of the Netroots, in my opinion, is NOT to cheerlead and rationalize Democratic failure. The proper role of the Netroots and the progressive base is to pressure, cajole, push and prod for progressive movement in the Congressional agenda. If it does that, Pelosi's job (assuming she really wants progressive change) becomes easier. She needs to feel and see pressure from her Left. Some would see the Netroots and the Progressive base as just an arm of the Democratic Party, there only to support Democrats in elections. I've discussed this phenomena in the past. It is wrong and will lead to the utter irrelevance of the Netroots in particular.

It's funny because if Welshman understood the quote from Nancy Pelosi that he defends, he would not have written the diary. Pelosi said:

"They are advocates," she said. "We are leaders."

Advocates do not excuse the failure of leadership on the issues they care about. Advocates ADVOCATE for the issues they care about They do not worry about being "fair."

In essence, the Welshman chose to be an advocate for PELOSI, not for progressive issues. This is a variation of the Cult of Personality that infects the Presidential primary season. The Welshman demonstrates the flip side of the coin of Hillary Hate. It is an Apologia for a Politician. It demonstrates another aspect of what ails the Netroots.

This comment in the thread demonstrates some of the muddled thinking:

Perhaps because it's one of my own preoccupations, this points me back again to the difference between movement and electoral politics. That's a difference that's often not seen (or at least not remarked upon) by people at this site; why I don't fully know, though I have some guesses.

It's a distinction DHinMI made the other night:

The second thing to keep in mind is that unions don't exist and thrive so they can do politics, they do politics so they can exist and hopefully thrive.

And one I see here in this diary:

She did not dismiss, insultingly or otherwise "anti-war progressives and moderates". Those who read the article will find no such emotive colouring of her comment. She made a simple statement of fact - a simple reminder of the reality of political life. We are indeed advocates, we do not have to compromise in the way that our leaders do, because they have the responsibility of treading through the entanglement of the political web. If there is a need to gently remind us of this fact, then we should not react like it is two years before we have come to understand the difficulties of exercising political power in our countries by condemning out of hand those to whom we entrust this task.
Sometimes we have to batter at the walls of these distinctions, but assailing people for acting as they should given their roles in this, whether as leaders or as advocates, is counterproductive.

Whatever respect the commenter is giving to Pelosi's role, she has completely disrespected the role of the advocate.

The end of her comment makes no sense to me:

Sometimes we have to batter at the walls of these distinctions, but assailing people for acting as they should given their roles in this, whether as leaders or as advocates, is counterproductive.

Sometimes we have to batter the walls of these distinctions but when we do it is counterproductive? The proper insight I think is to say that unions do politics to achieve their ends - not to be Democrats. Not to defend Nancy Pelosi.

Think of it this way. Think of us as a union whose only objective is to end the Iraq War. This is just an example.

Should we be defending Pelosi's performance if our goal is to end the Iraq war? Or we it be more productive for us to criticize her and pressure her? I think the answer is obvious. Pressure, not rationalization, will be more effective.

The attitude displayed is emblematic of the identity crisis suffered by the Netroots.

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  • Display: Sort:
    The problem is likely not Pelosi, but rather (none / 0) (#1)
    by Geekesque on Tue Nov 06, 2007 at 09:48:10 AM EST
    the Blue Puppies.  She can do a lot to keep them in line, but if they refuse to vote the right way, she can't kick them out of Congress.  

    The fact that you have to speculate (5.00 / 2) (#5)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Nov 06, 2007 at 09:54:43 AM EST
    is the problem.

    Excuse me, Pelosi needs to let them expose themeselves. For HER sake and for the sake of the Democratic Party.

    Will they do it if Pelosi et al do not give them cover?

    Why do't we find out?

    But leave that aside. IF you are interested i the issues, i forwardig progressive goals, whaty should we as "advocates" do? give Pelosi a pass?

    Do you really believe that forwards the progressive agenda?

    Look, are you for isssues, or for pols? That is what it boils down to. Welshman chose to defend the pol instead of fight for the issue.

    Parent

    It doesn't hurt the Blue Dogs if they (none / 0) (#7)
    by Geekesque on Tue Nov 06, 2007 at 10:03:36 AM EST
    'expose' themselves as not voting with the activist wing of the Democratic party 100% of the time.

    Heck, Stephanie Herseth or Dan Boren love that kind of publicity.

    The key is to twist enough arms behind the scenes to get them to vote for stuff they would rather not vote for, but can be bullied into voting for.

    Pelosi is Speaker, not Minority Leader.

    Also, her status as Speaker is not guaranteed.  Intra-caucus warfare could give us Speaker Hoyer.

    Parent

    Primaries (none / 0) (#12)
    by magster on Tue Nov 06, 2007 at 10:12:59 AM EST
    The Donna Edwards of this world will wake up our "leadership" if they can upend some Blue Dogs in the primaries.

    Parent
    Al Wynn's district is not the same (none / 0) (#18)
    by Geekesque on Tue Nov 06, 2007 at 12:04:27 PM EST
    as Dan Boren's.

    Parent
    On Iraq? (none / 0) (#13)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Nov 06, 2007 at 10:13:07 AM EST
    Nope. You are wrong. Totally wrong.

    Parent
    This (none / 0) (#2)
    by Wile ECoyote on Tue Nov 06, 2007 at 09:52:01 AM EST
    is why I am back Cindy Sheehan against Speaker Pelosi for congress!

    You do understand that if Sheehan were (none / 0) (#4)
    by Geekesque on Tue Nov 06, 2007 at 09:54:12 AM EST
    to miraculously win, Steny Hoyer would be speaker, right?

    Parent
    Sure (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Nov 06, 2007 at 10:01:17 AM EST
    But she will not win nor will she run as a Dem.

    Sheehan is irrelevant.

    But Netroots criticism has a bit of an effect.

    The idea that we eed to empathize with Pelosi and thus forsake the issues we care about is dangerous and wrong.

    Parent

    Netroots criticism has short bursts (none / 0) (#8)
    by Geekesque on Tue Nov 06, 2007 at 10:04:22 AM EST
    of effectiveness.

    NOT funding requires a sustained effort and pressure.

    Parent

    No kidding (5.00 / 2) (#11)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Nov 06, 2007 at 10:12:15 AM EST
    surely you know how single minded I have been on it.

    Its going on 10 months now.

    Parent

    99% lack your attention span. n/t (none / 0) (#17)
    by Geekesque on Tue Nov 06, 2007 at 12:03:14 PM EST
    As far as the Netroots are concerned, (none / 0) (#3)
    by Geekesque on Tue Nov 06, 2007 at 09:53:26 AM EST
    I think they have too short an attention span to be effective policy advocates, in a strategic sense.

    Politicians know they'll catch hell from the Netroots one week, but all they need to do is throw a little gratuitous red meat rhetoric out there and the Netroots will praise them for having 'spine' and showing 'leadership.'

    By the same token, any praise earned for good policy work gets forgotten over the weekend.

    A whole host of people (none / 0) (#9)
    by andgarden on Tue Nov 06, 2007 at 10:06:21 AM EST
    reveal themselves in that thread.

    Well (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Nov 06, 2007 at 10:11:11 AM EST
    If people pay attention, that would not be a surprise.

    Parent
    The usual (none / 0) (#16)
    by Warren Terrer on Tue Nov 06, 2007 at 11:28:40 AM EST
    suspect was in there bashing anyone over the head who dared challenge Welshman's thesis.

    The official line was offered: You don't want the GOP to win do you? Then shut your piehole and support Pelosi.

    Parent

    Government 101 (none / 0) (#19)
    by Jgarza on Tue Nov 06, 2007 at 12:34:11 PM EST
    I think a lot of bloggers go after the leadership because it's an easy target.  These people don't have the the policy discretion Bush does.  They have to do the best with the moc's they have.

    If bloggers want to be productive go after the people that vote the wrong way, not Pelosi.

    Jeralyn cites the AG as reason why we should be upset with Nancy, but that doesn't even begin to make sense.    His nomination needs senate approval, she is speaker of the house.

    This is all an exercise in truthiness, It is easy and feels good to be mad at Pelosi, therefore it must be her fault.

    Parent

    Talex (5.00 / 3) (#21)
    by Warren Terrer on Tue Nov 06, 2007 at 01:56:37 PM EST
    Is that you?

    Parent
    Heh (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Nov 06, 2007 at 02:23:50 PM EST
    i'm sorry? (none / 0) (#22)
    by Jgarza on Tue Nov 06, 2007 at 02:09:23 PM EST
    Just a former user (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by Warren Terrer on Tue Nov 06, 2007 at 02:14:45 PM EST
    who used to post unproductive comments similar to yours. No matter.

    Parent
    just like BTD (none / 0) (#27)
    by Jgarza on Tue Nov 06, 2007 at 03:26:44 PM EST
    Btd its just like you.  Find something you don't agree with.  Rather than address anything in it. declare it, unproductive or substance free, or stupid or whatever.

    Warren, there is anther technique btd uses, next time someone says they disagree with you, act like something in there offends you. I have dubbed it Pearl Clutching.

    Really if you have trouble supporting your opinions, BTD has a lot of avoidance techniques, and they will be very helpful to you!


    Parent

    Interesting Post (none / 0) (#14)
    by Jgarza on Tue Nov 06, 2007 at 10:41:29 AM EST
    I completely agree with the statement this
    It can not grant extraordinary powers to the President to engage in warrantless surveillance. It can disapprove of torture and not approve an AG nominee who will not say waterboarding is torture. It can prevent the most egregious excesses by the worst Administration in history. The Congress has done none of these things.

    I just don't see how you can hang all that on the speaker of the house.  The AG? last time i checked his conformation is going through the senate?

    I think on the war, it's more complicated.  In 2006 democrats painted themselves in a corner, because they thought they had to swear off cutting funds to win.  They never had to promise not to cut off funds, they gave up their strongest weapon against the war.  It was dumb, but thats the corner they painted themselves in.  It's actually why i like Hillary's caution about answering hypothetical questions.

    As for Pelosi, I think you have to be realistic about what she can do.  She can only do what she has the votes to do. It isn't like the president where she alone sets policy.  I think, as liberals, some people hoped that she would be an equal balance to Bush, but that is not possible as speaker.  That has nothing to do with her, it is the nature of the office. It is fair to criticize MOC's especially those, voting the wrong way.  But the idea that you hold the speaker completely accountable is silly. So I think netroots would be more effective if they exerted their pressure on MOC's that are on the wrong sides of issues.

    My feeling is that some in the netroots community have taken all their frustration over MOC's out on the speaker.  Those that call for her resignation forget, what a victory it was to get such an advocate for progressive causes as speaker.  I think it is fair to say Pelosi is doing the best she can, that cannot be said of a good number of democrats in congress.  It really isn't the speaker that needs to be pressured, look at her individual voting record, its the rest of the bums in congress.

    As for cults of personality, no one has a stronger one than Hillary.  I have never heard an Edwards or Obama supporter call for people to be shot for asking their candidates tough questions.

    In essence, the Welshman chose to be an advocate for PELOSI, not for progressive issues. This is a variation of the Cult of Personality that infects the Presidential primary season.

    You yourself have become an advocate of Hillary Clinton, so i don't see how you have credibility criticizing other bloggers for being an advocate for any other politician.

    It is an Apologia for a Politician. It demonstrates another aspect of what ails the Netroots.

    I couldn't have said it better, and this applies to your own blog as much as any other.

    Pelosi, the Leader (none / 0) (#15)
    by Doc Rock on Tue Nov 06, 2007 at 11:00:33 AM EST
    Pelosi: "They are advocates. We are leaders."  News flash, Nancy, you are a representative of the those who elected you--I suspect many are retinking their support.  As for me, all my money will go to the ACLU and I'll read Kaddish over the "Democrat" Party.


    News Flash! (none / 0) (#20)
    by Jgarza on Tue Nov 06, 2007 at 01:27:26 PM EST
    Pelosi: "They are advocates. We are leaders."  News flash, Nancy, you are a representative of the those who elected you

    News Flash Doc Rock! Pelosi was elected speaker by the members of the House of Representatives, not by netroots advocates.  So the more she pushes them to the left of where they want to be, the less she is representing the people who elected her speaker.  

    If you look at her individual voting record she represents her district well.

    Parent

    Blue Dog Democrats (none / 0) (#25)
    by MSimon on Tue Nov 06, 2007 at 02:50:05 PM EST
    Democrats got control of Congress by electing a bunch of Republicans (on the war at least) from the South.

    Dean's Southern Strategy. Hailed as a genius move. At the time.

    Memories are long in the South and they hate losing wars. They just hate it.

    The Democrat Party was never unified on the war issue and the Republicans remain solid that the only way out is victory followed by an Iraqi Army capable of holding Iraq for the elected government.

    Why do you think Bush is rolling Congress? The option is a Republican controlled Congress. At least then you can blame it on the Republicans.

    Which ones? (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Nov 06, 2007 at 03:10:50 PM EST
    Shuler and Lampson? Most of those elected were from the North.

    BTW, it is the DemocratIC Party, Rush.

    Parent

    rare (none / 0) (#28)
    by Jgarza on Tue Nov 06, 2007 at 03:55:41 PM EST
    rare that i agree with BTD, but facts are facts.
    most were from the north, the northeast at that.

    This idea of "conservative" democrats, was just some crap talking heads spewed to blame the lost of conservatives on republicans, and not the "conservative" brand.

    The reality of 2006 was repugs and conservatives alike were just plain LOOSERS!

    Parent