Huckabee Demonstrates Some Humanity

By Big Tent Democrat, Section Elections 2008
Posted on Fri Nov 23, 2007 at 02:40:54 PM EST
Tags: (all tags)

Share This: Digg!

Obviously, no one at Talk Left will ever support Mike Huckabee's candidacy for President but, via TPM, credit where due, Huckabee's response to the crazy GOP's hatred of, supposedly just, illegal, immigrants:

"If a child is gasping for air, asthmatic, and he's on the hospital steps, what do the other candidates suggest we do, let him sit there and gasp until he doesn't have any air left and he dies? If a child comes to our school -- and our law, by the way, in most of our states, mine certainly says you've got to educate a child if he's of child age -- what do you, break your own law and say, `No, you can't come in the schoolhouse door'? "No, you don't do that. What you do is you elect a president who will fix the problem where it needs to be fixed: At the border. But if your government at the federal government is so incompetent that it fails to secure the border, you don't then grind your heel into the face of a 6-year-old child over it. That's not what this country does. We're a better country than that."

Unfortunately for Huckabee and for the Nation, the Republican Party is NOT a better party than that.

< The Problem With Obama: Axelrod Edition | Undocumented Immigrant Saves Young Boy >

Legal

Nothing on this site should be construed as legal advice. TalkLeft does not give legal advice.

TalkLeft is not responsible for and often disagrees with material posted in the comments section. Read at your own risk.

Huckabee Demonstrates Some Humanity | 27 comments (27 topical)

Readers Must Login or Create an Account to Comment

Well said (5.00 / 1) (#1)
by glanton on Fri Nov 23, 2007 at 02:46:09 PM EST

And together with this truth, we see the GOP poised to retain the White House in 2008.

How sad for America.

I know no one (1.00 / 0) (#3)
by jimakaPPJ on Fri Nov 23, 2007 at 06:49:57 PM EST

who do as Huckabee suggests. He's just taking a few shots at his competition...

The immigration issue is really simple, and what the foes of the status quo want is:

Secure the borders. Completely.
After that, figure out what to do with the 13 million illegal aliens that are here. There are several subsets of that:

a. Round them up and deport them. And yes, it could be done.

b. Register them and have them apply for citizenship. As part of that:

No automatic bringing in family.
DNA proof that those approved are family.
No "anchor" babies. And yes I know that supposedly they are "citizens."

Illegal aliens will be one of the most important issues in the next election. As Spitizer just found out, even the citizens of Blue State NY (77%) don't favor special handling.

Reform of "legal" immigration is also needed.

Reduce to a trickle the current flood of unskilled workers.
Require a "sponsor" unless the immigrant has special skills the nation needs.

What specific danger (5.00 / 3) (#16)
by Molly Bloom on Sat Nov 24, 2007 at 11:10:49 AM EST

do undocumented aliens pose to the United States? Please list in order of greatest to lowest threat and explain each one.


In case you don't know it, you are neither (1.00 / 2) (#18)
by jimakaPPJ on Sat Nov 24, 2007 at 12:06:42 PM EST

my teacher or my boss.

Please list in order of greatest to lowest threat and explain each one.

But since you said "please" here are a few:

The problems, from the re-introduction of infectious diseases to the depressing of wages for our both or lowest paid and highest paid workers is well known. To that you can add overcrowding of schools by their children, over utilization of our emergency room health care systems for non-emergency health problems and a failure to contribute to the local and national tax bases in an amount equal to the law's requirements and certainly much less than the cost they present to society. I would also mention that in many areas the overcrowding, against zoning laws, of apartments and other rental property lowers the value of the property, thus reducing the taxes collected on the property and by lowering the value of the property, discourages the owners from properly maintaining and improving the property.

Beyond that, by tolerating a class of people who have demonstrated they have knowingly and willfully broken the law, we say by our lack of action that we will tolerate law breakers. In fact, you can ask, why prosecute a bank robber for his single act? By itself it really does no appreciable damage to the country.

That illegal aliens my provide a benefit to certain people... those who need their lawns mowed, their homes cleaned...their produce picked.. all at a cost less than they would have to pay otherwise, is certainly true. That a very large amount of their wages do not remain to circulate within the local economy but are sent outside the country is also true.

It is also true that our borders are so porous that someone wanting to commit a terrorist act would have almost NO problem illegally entering the country.

Given that most of the problem comes from Mexico and Central/South America and that the vast amount of the people involved are, outside their illegal entry, honest hard working people who only want to have a better life for themselves and their families, it is necessary that we do the things indicated in my Fri Nov 23, 2007 at 05:49:57 PM CST comment. (See above.)

I would add that since the problem really is the forced (by circumstances) export of their poor, it is obvious that that the countries exporting the vast majority of illegal aliens have deep social and cultural problems that need solving. We should immediately stop playing nice with them and start pressuring them to reform. Closing the borders would be an important part of that effort.

Now. Clean the lens on your flashlight. You will need a bright light to cut through your confusion and allow you to understand my points.

Have a nice day.


You listed 9 (5.00 / 2) (#24)
by Molly Bloom on Sat Nov 24, 2007 at 08:29:40 PM EST

in the order you consider to be the greatest threat to the lowest.

And the winner is.... infectious disease! you think the greatest threat to the US from undocumented aliens is infectious disease.

You don't explain why this is the greatest threat and I have to assume you are echoing JD Hayworth's 2005 statement: "Americans should be told that diseases long eradicated in this country -- tuberculosis, leprosy, polio.."

The WHO notes that polio infected fewer than 1,300 people around the world last year. 95 percent of U.S. schoolchildren are vaccinated against that virus. Leprosy? According to the US census bureau, less than 96 cases in 2002. TB? In decline since 1992. In 2004 lowest ever.

This doesn't seem to be a major problem. You sure this isn't just fear of brown people?


Yes (5.00 / 1) (#25)
by squeaky on Sat Nov 24, 2007 at 08:49:53 PM EST

You sure this isn't just fear of brown people?

A very nasty infectious disease that takes over the brain. It almost exclusively a white conservative disease contracted and spread through ignorance and not washing thoroughly after coming in contact with right wing hacks.


Nope (1.00 / 0) (#26)
by jimakaPPJ on Sun Nov 25, 2007 at 07:40:46 PM EST

Please remember I said you were not my boss or my teacher.

No where did I say these were listed in "order."

But, if you want them in order, I will specify "all of the above."

Like most difficult issues it is the sum of the problems rather than any single problem. And like most people who support a losing position, you want to start arguing each individual point.

That dosn't work with this old dog.

Get some rechargeable batteries. You surely need them.


: No doubt because you feel it in your gut (5.00 / 1) (#28)
by Molly Bloom on Mon Nov 26, 2007 at 07:48:53 AM EST

Arguing each point individually does have the advantage of actually exploring whether or not the point is valid. OTOH the Tower of Babel approach has the advantage of yelling look over there! whenever you are losing ground on another point. I can see why you prefer the latter.

I do not argue your (1.00 / 0) (#7)
by jimakaPPJ on Fri Nov 23, 2007 at 09:08:49 PM EST

point as it exists currently.

My point is that what he have is a reward for illegal action. The children exist in the US because of the illegal actions of the parents.

You might as well say that the child of a bank robber can keep the money stolen in a bank robbery.

And it is a tough question. It is obvious that the use of "anchor babies" exists, and is a way to skirt the law.

The problem is that we look at law in the 19th century and try to apply it to today.

If it takes a constitutional amendment, let's get it on.

Sometimes it is hard to see the forest (1.00 / 1) (#15)
by jimakaPPJ on Sat Nov 24, 2007 at 09:36:25 AM EST

for the trees.

WASHINGTON, Nov. 2 -- Under a new policy, children born in the United States to undocumented immigrants with low incomes will no longer be automatically entitled to health insurance through Medicaid, federal officials said today.
Doctors and hospitals said the policy change would make it more difficult for such infants, who are United States citizens, to obtain health care needed in the first year of life.

What is described above is exactly what must be done by US citizen parents for medicaid for the child. They must apply.

Why should illegal alien parents be given favorable treatment??

The truth is that the issue, hidden in the forest, is that the illegal alien parents are fearful that by providing information they are exposing themselves to be deported.

That is why Huckabee is dangerous (none / 0) (#2)
by pioneer111 on Fri Nov 23, 2007 at 05:03:09 PM EST

I don't know if he will win the nomination, but if he did, he would a real challenge especially for Clinton. He is likeable even though he is a wingnut in many ways.

babies are denied (none / 0) (#4)
by tnthorpe on Fri Nov 23, 2007 at 07:36:44 PM EST

health care, not explicitly of course, but through the legal subterfuge typical of compassionate conservatism:

U.S. Tightens Medicaid Rules for Babies of Illegal Immigrants

By ROBERT PEAR
Published: November 2, 2006
WASHINGTON, Nov. 2 -- Under a new policy, children born in the United States to undocumented immigrants with low incomes will no longer be automatically entitled to health insurance through Medicaid, federal officials said today.

Doctors and hospitals said the policy change would make it more difficult for such infants, who are United States citizens, to obtain health care needed in the first year of life.

Undocumented immigrants are generally barred from Medicaid, but can get coverage for treatment of emergency medical conditions, including labor and delivery. In the past, once a woman received emergency care under Medicaid for the birth of a baby, the child was deemed eligible for coverage as well, and states had to cover them for one year from the date of birth.

Under the new policy, an application must be filed for the child, and the parents must provide documents to prove the child's citizenship.

The documentation requirements took effect in July, but some states have been slow to enforce them, and many doctors are only now becoming aware of the effects on newborns.

Obtaining such documents can take weeks or months in some states, doctors said. Moreover, they added, illegal immigrant parents may be reluctant to go to a state welfare office to file applications because they fear contact with government agencies that could report their presence to immigration authorities.

Administration officials said the change was necessary under their reading of a new law, the Deficit Reduction Act, signed by President Bush in February. The law did not mention newborns, but generally tightened Medicaid documentation requirements because some lawmakers were concerned that immigrants were fraudulently claiming United States citizenship to get Medicaid.
-------
Washington and other states have also fought the federal government over Medicaid for infants born to illegal immigrants, an issue reflected in the ferocious debate over the national children's health insurance program.

In the wake of stricter federal rules, New York, New Jersey, Connecticut and 20 other states have extended full Medicaid coverage, using only state money, to some immigrants who do not qualify for federal aid.
---------

Nonsense (1.00 / 1) (#6)
by jimakaPPJ on Fri Nov 23, 2007 at 09:02:53 PM EST

Show me where they have been denied medical care in the emergency rooms.


Nonsequitor (5.00 / 1) (#8)
by roy on Fri Nov 23, 2007 at 09:22:55 PM EST

They're being denied access to Medicare on the same terms as other citizens, which makes it more difficult to get care overall. The fact that they can still get ER care doesn't undercut that.


And your point is?? (1.00 / 1) (#9)
by jimakaPPJ on Fri Nov 23, 2007 at 09:39:54 PM EST

My comment was meant to show tnthorpe, who believes in open borders, that medical treatment is not being denied.

His complaint is that they are not being routinely given Medicaid.

Roy, you know that.

BTW - Glad to see you're still at it. Hows Portland treating you? Ready for the long rains??


more misprision (5.00 / 1) (#11)
by tnthorpe on Sat Nov 24, 2007 at 01:35:49 AM EST

PPJ, thanks for repeating the open borders canard, always good for a giggle.

Looks like your compassionate conservatism needs more of the former. Bush's gov't is punishing infants for having the wrong parents. Those young 'uns are citizens and deserve to be fully treated as such, not buried under a barrage of paperwork. Even a conservative like Huckabee sees how wrong the Bush position is, but then governors tend generally toward the pragmatic, rather than the horrifically ideological, Haley Barbour aside.

Of course, it's easier to scream open borders and be hysterical. To each his own.


: All of the points you (1.00 / 2) (#13)
by jimakaPPJ on Sat Nov 24, 2007 at 08:59:45 AM EST

make support the open borders position. If it walks like a duck, etc., etc.

are you (5.00 / 3) (#12)
by tnthorpe on Sat Nov 24, 2007 at 03:36:58 AM EST

seriously suggesting that standard post natal care happens in emergency rooms?

I hope the children find support at clinics or other venues for the necessary immunizations, etc., but that is difficult to determine.

Meanwhile, the insanity continues:
Nov. 17, 2007
Last October, Dr. Jack Ludmir, the head of obstetrics and gynecology at Pennsylvania Hospital, oversaw the emergency-room treatment of a young woman who was seven months pregnant, hypertensive, and convulsing. Although her condition was, according to Ludmir, "rarely seen in the United States," his team diagnosed it quickly: She was suffering from eclampsia, a severe pregnancy-related disorder that can lead to premature birth, seizure, stroke, even death.

In this country, the condition is usually caught in its early stage known as pre-eclampsia, which can often be managed with prenatal care; but, with the mother already in the ER, doctors had no choice but to deliver the baby prematurely.

Over the next three months, the newborn was threaded with respiratory tubes while doctors flushed the mother's brain of excess blood three times. "You can't imagine the costs," says Ludmir. For as little as a few hundred dollars worth of prenatal care, he says, this tragedy - and at least $250,000 of medical care - could have been avoided. Unfortunately, this was not an option. The mother was an undocumented immigrant and therefore was ineligible for publicly funded prenatal care in Pennsylvania


Of course the example you use (1.00 / 2) (#14)
by jimakaPPJ on Sat Nov 24, 2007 at 09:26:11 AM EST

is horrible and costly and that is the reason you pick it as an anecdote.

Tell me. Would you provide Medicaid to all illegal aliens who are in the country??

I acknowledge that it is a tough question. But when many of our own citizens lack health care, have limited economic opportunities as well as a failing educational system our first duty is to them.

I keep on making the same point. Close the borders. No one allowed in. After that, let's have a rational discussion of what is to be done about the 13,000,000 illegals who are here.

BTW - Do you remember this statement made by you??

To Palestinians the wall and illegal settlements are strangling their livelihoods and destroying their culture

I wonder why you think it is wrong for the Jews to be illegally in Palestine, but okay for illegal aliens to be in the US??

I also wonder if Palestine is providing free medical care for the Jews??

You demonstrate a huge double standard in this matter.


My post (5.00 / 2) (#17)
by tnthorpe on Sat Nov 24, 2007 at 11:18:59 AM EST

is about why children ought to receive the health care they need and are entitled to as citizens, whatever their parentage.

There is no valid comparison to the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. Stop introducing irrelevant misquotes to an argument about immigration here. I will not waste time further on this with you as you continually demonstrate, as with your failure to acknowledge a tart and pleasant metaphor just recently, that you are more interested in repeating falsehoods and hysteria than engaging in dialogue.


As I noted (1.00 / 1) (#19)
by jimakaPPJ on Sat Nov 24, 2007 at 02:31:16 PM EST

if their parents apply for Medicaid, they can have it.


Do you believe that the children of illegal aliens (1.00 / 1) (#20)
by jimakaPPJ on Sat Nov 24, 2007 at 02:33:40 PM EST

be treated differently than the children of US citizens?

Tell me again about the illegal Jewish settlements in Palestine...


Enjoy (5.00 / 1) (#21)
by tnthorpe on Sat Nov 24, 2007 at 02:55:10 PM EST

your idiotic monologue.


Unable to refute the point, tnthorpe (1.00 / 0) (#22)
by jimakaPPJ on Sat Nov 24, 2007 at 05:44:43 PM EST

reverts to his well know personal attack.

tehe


There is nothing to refute (1.00 / 0) (#23)
by tnthorpe on Sat Nov 24, 2007 at 07:24:00 PM EST

you're continuing to make idiotic pronouncements, ludicrous comparisons, and doing so over and over and over.

It's an idiotic monologue.

Grow up.


: Grow up?? (1.00 / 0) (#27)
by jimakaPPJ on Sun Nov 25, 2007 at 07:44:13 PM EST

LOL....
The facts are totally against you. All children born in the USA whose parents meet the income and asset requirements can receive Medicaid.
All they parents have to do is apply for it.
That is the rule for US citizen parents, and it is the rule for illegal alien parents.
So you are simply wrong. Accept it.

not a republican position. (none / 0) (#10)
by TomK on Sat Nov 24, 2007 at 12:32:57 AM EST

"But if your government at the federal government is so incompetent that it fails to secure the border, you don't then grind your heel into the face of a 6-year-old child over it. That's not what this country does. We're a better country than that."

That's not going to sit well with Ron Paul and Tom Tancredo's boys.