OnStar Joins the Police

By Last Night in Little Rock, Section Civil Liberties
Posted on Tue Oct 09, 2007 at 08:44:30 AM EST
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OnStar service, with 5M subscribers, will be able to stop cars so equipped by slowing the engine starting with the 2009 models. OnStar from General Motors is seeking to sell its service to other manufacturers. The GPS system of OnStar already tracks 800-900 cars a month that are stolen. This is reported in today's New York Times.

Where else can this go? [More...]

A thief has no expectation of privacy in a stolen car, but, as ABC News Good Morning America played up today (because it has eyecathing video of car chases), is a single sentence in the Times article: "GM would be willing to sell the technology to other automakers in an effort to cut police chases." ABC had video of the car telling the driver it was "being stopped at the request of law enforcement." Private contractors can stop cars for the police.

Sure, the story is about stopping police chases. But, how long before the police figure out that they can stop people just because they can and then walk up to ask questions under a ruse.

This not at all far fetched. Just think about it.

[cross-posted to FourthAmendment.com]

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OnStar Joins the Police | 23 comments (23 topical)

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You'd have to be nuts... (5.00 / 2) (#1)
by kdog on Tue Oct 09, 2007 at 09:33:04 AM EST

to buy an Onstar equpped car....wouldn't ya?

Next they'll have sneakers that stick to the sidewalk at the push of a lawman's button. Scary.

Shades of Snow Crash (5.00 / 2) (#2)
by scarshapedstar on Tue Oct 09, 2007 at 09:46:07 AM EST

Private contractors can stop cars for the police.

How long until it's simply "OnStar has placed you under arrest. Your engine has been turned off and you will be unable to open your windows and doors. Have a nice day!"

: Nice..... (5.00 / 1) (#4)
by kdog on Tue Oct 09, 2007 at 10:19:32 AM EST

they can stock the glovie with MRE's, you can do your time on the shoulder of the road. We can solve prison overcrowding too!
"Thank you for using Onstar. Your appeal has been denied, the doors will unlock in 30 days."

A related automotive concern (5.00 / 1) (#10)
by rustydude on Tue Oct 09, 2007 at 01:41:14 PM EST

I haven't bought a new car in 25 years until this year. I bought a Toyota Prius and come to find out that it has a recorder box similar to what's installed on commercial jet airplanes. It records speed, braking, and all of the other driving parameters at all times, but is especially handy when the car is in an accident.

The warranty states that Toyota will not release the info to police, etc., but they do reserve the right to use evidence from the recorder in any lawsuit against Toyota including one instituted by the car owner or his/her insurance company.

This seems rather big brother-ish to me. Anyone know a good mechanic that can knock out the recorder or demagnetize it or something?

I know a guy.... (none / 0) (#11)
by kdog on Tue Oct 09, 2007 at 01:58:54 PM EST

who can shut off the odometer for you if you lease....I'm sure he could figure it out:)


: How about a set of tires??? (none / 0) (#12)
by jimakaPPJ on Tue Oct 09, 2007 at 02:19:42 PM EST

;-)

How long... (none / 0) (#3)
by desertswine on Tue Oct 09, 2007 at 10:01:13 AM EST

before such systems are made mandatory on every vehicle sold in the US.

Why not just micro-chip the streets themselves? (none / 0) (#5)
by Dadler on Tue Oct 09, 2007 at 11:56:37 AM EST

Make it impossible to go faster than a certain speed. Why not just micro-chip all of us? Then we can be rendered immobile at the press of a button whenever the cops "need" to apprehend us -- or when our wives need us home from the bowling alley bar.

Well ... (none / 0) (#6)
by chemoelectric on Tue Oct 09, 2007 at 12:23:25 PM EST

... the problem with this concern is that the police already can stop you under a ruse. Consider: if a police car orders you to pull over, even if you have done nothing, what are you going to do, take off at high speed? No, you are going to stop and take whatever the cop is planning to give you. So the basic problem remains, which is an incentive or two for police to violate civil liberties.

A truly new factor, aside from the greater ease and range of use (compared to following in a police car), is that now someone without police authority could stop you independently of the police, in your car.

OnStar debuts Stolen Vehicle Slowdown service (none / 0) (#7)
by Aaron on Tue Oct 09, 2007 at 01:07:07 PM EST

Autoblog

OnStar debuts Stolen Vehicle Slowdown service

[According to National Highway Traffic Safety Administration statistics, about 30,000 police chases occur yearly and approximately 300 deaths occur as a result of those chases.]

[Powered by OnStar's newest generation of hardware (Generation 8), GM will make Stolen Vehicle Slowdown available on nearly 1.7 million Model Year (MY) 2009 vehicles. GM's largest division, Chevrolet, will be leading the way, making up for more than 60 percent of the total vehicles equipped with this new technology.]

: Good FOr Business (none / 0) (#8)
by squeaky on Tue Oct 09, 2007 at 01:16:54 PM EST

This will be fun for those who have super powerful remote controls for their TV. A bit of rewiring and you too can slow down the cars remotely from your couch and count how many cars are in the ensuing pileup because the accidents will be so spectacular that they will be televised.
Poor guys will all have to buy new cars.

Cool! What a deal! (none / 0) (#9)
by Edger on Tue Oct 09, 2007 at 01:29:02 PM EST

Now you can buy a car, pay for it, have it equipped so that the police know your every move, and pay for that too! Does it come with an unsupervised solitary cell so that the mentally handicapped people who buy one can hang themselves too?

It doesn't get any better than this. There'll be lineups all the way down the street and around the corner. Of suckers.

Treating people with the assumption that they are too stupid to know whats good for them seems to be good business.

Over to the apologists, now.......

do you get a break (none / 0) (#13)
by Patrick on Tue Oct 09, 2007 at 02:26:23 PM EST

on insurance premiums if you buy a car equipped with on-star?

Can you imagine a computer glitch (none / 0) (#14)
by jimakaPPJ on Tue Oct 09, 2007 at 02:29:17 PM EST

shutting down a million cars???

I have OnStar on two vehicles and it is very handy.. I especially love the monthly status reports...

But it isn't free, after the first year there is a fee, and if you don't pay, they shut it down. If you are concerned over privacy, just pop the trunk and disconnect the antenna and/or power...

Which a thief could also do...

Now when they tell you it MUST be installed and working.... start worrying.

Location history? (none / 0) (#15)
by Ben Masel on Tue Oct 09, 2007 at 02:48:50 PM EST

Onstar knows where the car is. Any indication theymaintain a database of where it was? What's the standard for providing this history to law enforcement?

: Yes they do (none / 0) (#16)
by Patrick on Tue Oct 09, 2007 at 03:46:00 PM EST

and at present, law enforcement can access that info with a search warrant.

opt out (none / 0) (#17)
by Joe Bob on Tue Oct 09, 2007 at 03:53:00 PM EST

Maybe the auto makers will start giving us options for taking stuff out rather than adding stuff in. Just like you can add leather seats, you could take out OnStar, GPS locaters, and black box recorders.

Do you think they would lower the price if you opted out of those?

Nah, me neither.

: Great marketing idea.... (none / 0) (#20)
by kdog on Tue Oct 09, 2007 at 04:51:18 PM EST

car makers can roll out the "freedom" package...no gps, no onstar, no ez-pass, no black-box. For the driver who cherishes freedom:)

Walk. (none / 0) (#18)
by Edger on Tue Oct 09, 2007 at 04:27:19 PM EST

: Walk??? Walk??????? (none / 0) (#23)
by jimakaPPJ on Tue Oct 09, 2007 at 08:10:26 PM EST

This is America!
Surely you jest.

If the car can talk to the driver (none / 0) (#19)
by JSN on Tue Oct 09, 2007 at 04:49:47 PM EST

why not install a loudspeaker that will announce when the car is started that the car is stolen and ask persons in the vicinity to notify the police. I can imagine situations (such as crossing a busy highway) where slowing the car could result in a serious accident.

: They Had That (none / 0) (#21)
by squeaky on Tue Oct 09, 2007 at 06:04:16 PM EST

Or an alarm version that told people to back off from a parked car if they sat on it or inadvertently bumped it. Most people do not take kindly to a car barking orders at them. I believe that the product was discontinued because too many cars got their heads bashed in, so to speak.

May I repeat?? (none / 0) (#22)
by jimakaPPJ on Tue Oct 09, 2007 at 08:08:23 PM EST

If you buy a GM car, you get Onstar for 1 year..
That will be X amounts of "minutes" for cell type service, monthly updates about the condition of the car, directions, emergency dispatch, door unlock, restaurant reservations, call a friend/can, etc....At the end of one year they will automatically bill your credit card about $37 a month unless you turn'em off. They have various promotions available. I just said no to one that was $149.. It just isn't worth it.

If I was living in Denver I probably would. I kept it on another vehicle for years.

If I was concerned about privacy issues I would now get up, go outside, pop the trunk, take a pair of wire cutters and cut the wires.