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The Uncleansable Stain

Has there ever been a more disgraceful Attorney General than Alberto Gonzales? Has there ever been a more disgraceful Administration than the Bush Administration? No:

When the Justice Department publicly declared torture “abhorrent” in a legal opinion in December 2004, the Bush administration appeared to have abandoned its assertion of nearly unlimited presidential authority to order brutal interrogations.

But soon after Alberto R. Gonzales’s arrival as attorney general in February 2005, the Justice Department issued another opinion, this one in secret. It was a very different document, according to officials briefed on it, an expansive endorsement of the harshest interrogation techniques ever used by the Central Intelligence Agency.

The new opinion, the officials said, for the first time provided explicit authorization to barrage terror suspects with a combination of painful physical and psychological tactics, including head-slapping, simulated drowning and frigid temperatures.

Mr. Gonzales approved the legal memorandum on “combined effects” over the objections of James B. Comey, the deputy attorney general, who was leaving his job after bruising clashes with the White House. Disagreeing with what he viewed as the opinion’s overreaching legal reasoning, Mr. Comey told colleagues at the department that they would all be “ashamed” when the world eventually learned of it.

The nation may never recover from the damage done by these scoundrels.

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    unfortunately that is correct (5.00 / 0) (#4)
    by Molly Bloom on Wed Oct 03, 2007 at 10:34:13 PM EST
     We will may behave better in the future, but this will always be part of our past.


    And for the future... (none / 0) (#13)
    by NMvoiceofreason on Wed Oct 03, 2007 at 11:10:12 PM EST
    Have we secured the right of every US Ambassador to stomp their feet in a fit of pique and say "we didn't authorize you to do THAT to our people"?

    I.E. Once you give up the moral high ground, how long do you have to live in the gutter?

    It may be part of our past, Molly, even our present, but how long does it have to be our future?

    Parent

    Life in A Vietnamese Prison Was Hell but . . . (5.00 / 3) (#5)
    by john horse on Wed Oct 03, 2007 at 10:44:46 PM EST
    Here is the view of a former Vietnam POW Pete Peterson.
    To a large degree, I credit the Geneva Conventions for my survival. While the Vietnamese rarely abided by the rules, the international pressure on them to do so forced them to walk a line that ensured they did not perpetrate the sort of shocking abuses at Abu Ghraib.

    Life in a Vietnamese prison was hell, but I was never subjected to such degrading sexual humiliation. The human body can withstand enormous physical pain and recover. But the human mind is different: One seldom fully recovers from ruthless psychological or sexual torture. I am certain my treatment would have been worse had the Geneva Conventions not been in place and had the world not insisted that Vietnam abide by them.

    Having survived the ordeal of a POW, I never believed I would have to revisit the issue of prisoner treatment. But when I learned that the
    administration had created a new prisoner status for persons captured in Afghanistan after 9/11, I sensed something was drastically wrong. Labeling prisoners "enemy combatants" instead of POWs was an apparent ploy to circumvent the Geneva Conventions and deny them the right, at the very least, to a review to determine their status. . . The flippant, disrespectful view of the Geneva Conventions within the administration was reflected again in the zealous advice given to President Bush by his top legal adviser, Alberto Gonzales.

    Is there any greater betrayal of our principals that that perpetrated by George Bush and Alberto Gonzales?

    Despicable (none / 0) (#1)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Oct 03, 2007 at 10:10:56 PM EST
    The Bush administration had entered uncharted legal territory beginning in 2002, holding prisoners outside the scrutiny of the International Red Cross and subjecting them to harrowing pressure tactics. They included slaps to the head; hours held naked in a frigid cell; days and nights without sleep while battered by thundering rock music; long periods manacled in stress positions; or the ultimate, waterboarding.

    Never in history had the United States authorized such tactics. While President Bush and C.I.A. officials would later insist that the harsh measures produced crucial intelligence, many veteran interrogators, psychologists and other experts say that less coercive methods are equally or more effective.




    "The nation may never recover ..." (none / 0) (#2)
    by Demi Moaned on Wed Oct 03, 2007 at 10:19:37 PM EST
    Well, that's the point to me.

    I don't see anyone in a leadership position in the Democratic Party (except maybe Howard Dean) who is addressing the gravity of the situation. On the contrary, it seems that most of what the Bush Administration has done has been implicitly accepted by the Democratic Party.

    Where is a Presidential candidate saying, "We need to undo the damage the current Administration has done"?

    Senator Dodd . (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by oculus on Wed Oct 03, 2007 at 10:52:23 PM EST
    Simple Proof (none / 0) (#3)
    by NMvoiceofreason on Wed Oct 03, 2007 at 10:27:54 PM EST
    If there had been one single shred of evidence that ANY of these techniques had produced EVEN ONE valuable lead - wouldn't that news be shouted by the neocons from every rooftop?

    The truth, as any dominatrix will tell you, is that torture produces only compliance - telling you what you want to hear. It has little or nothing to do with the truth, and it never will.

    Worse yet, no one will prosecute these thugs because the next regime will want to keep all the power they have carved out for themselves...

    Liberties lost are never regained.

    I just posted an update to this (none / 0) (#7)
    by Jeralyn on Wed Oct 03, 2007 at 10:53:42 PM EST
    here.

    After reading all five pages of the article, I'm a little underwhelmed by the lack of detail on what's in these opinions that Bradbury signed.

    Well (5.00 / 0) (#8)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Oct 03, 2007 at 11:00:28 PM EST
    I found the approval of waterboarding, physical violence, freezing temperatures, etc. pretty specific.

    Torture was approved Jeralyn.

    Frankly, Gonzaes committed perjury. It is obvious.

    Excuse me, but I think it is pretty darn clear.

    Parent

    Here (none / 0) (#9)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Oct 03, 2007 at 11:02:34 PM EST
    The Bush administration had entered uncharted legal territory beginning in 2002, holding prisoners outside the scrutiny of the International Red Cross and subjecting them to harrowing pressure tactics. They included slaps to the head; hours held naked in a frigid cell; days and nights without sleep while battered by thundering rock music; long periods manacled in stress positions; or the ultimate, waterboarding.

    Never in history had the United States authorized such tactics.



    Parent
    More (none / 0) (#10)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Oct 03, 2007 at 11:04:31 PM EST
    In any case, the White House grew comfortable with Mr. Bradbury's approach. He helped block the appointment of a liberal Ivy League law professor to a career post in the Office of Legal Counsel. And he signed the opinion approving combined interrogation techniques.

    Mr. Comey strongly objected and told associates that he advised Mr. Gonzales not to endorse the opinion. But the attorney general made clear that the White House was adamant about it, and that he would do nothing to resist.



    Parent
    Interesting Question (none / 0) (#11)
    by NMvoiceofreason on Wed Oct 03, 2007 at 11:06:30 PM EST
    For those of us from a legal perspective.

    Opinion of the AG is considered precedent on matters the SCOTRP has not considered. Does a secret opinion get the same consideration, as it does not have the provenance of a published opinion?

    I.E. is SCOTRP bound to follow the opinion to the extent they would follow any other precedent?

    Parent

    Not just for terrorists anymore (none / 0) (#19)
    by Packratt on Fri Oct 05, 2007 at 03:56:26 AM EST
    Actually, this sort of thing goes on in jails across the US. During my stay in Seattle's King County Jail last year (the story here, I was eventually cleared of any wrongdoing) I was interogated while severely injured after being ordered to strip and without my rights being read to me.

    Then I was denied medical treatment for weeks as an intentional form of punishment, left with open wounds that required stitches in a jail notorious for fatal MRSA (drug resistant staph infections). An army medic who just came back from Iraq visited me and told my wife that the Army treated known insurgents who were injured better than they treated my wounds. While in the jail I also witnessed inmates who were punished by being handcuffed outside in the snow for hours simply for "talking too loudly".

    Think it's an isolated case? Think again, deaths in custody reports for local jails have shown a steady increase in the number of deaths by unknown causes from 2000 to 2005 (no statistics for 2006-present are available). Remember, organizational cultures are a top-down affair, if the leader supports torture, it's likely that everyone on down does too.

    Remember, just like suspected terrorists are supposedly innocent until proven guilty, so are the US citizens who are tortured in US jails. The problem is much bigger than Guantanamo.

    Parent

    In essence (none / 0) (#12)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Oct 03, 2007 at 11:08:43 PM EST
    The Bybee memo was reissued, this time in secret after Gonzales lied to the Congress.

    Parent
    I'm not saying Bush didn't authorize torture (none / 0) (#14)
    by Jeralyn on Wed Oct 03, 2007 at 11:16:36 PM EST
    I'm saying I'd like to read a copy of Bradbury's opinion for myself to see if he did authorize the inhumane, cruel and degrading tactics used by the CIA.

    In another section of the article it says Bradbury's opinion was unprecedented because it authorized using two techniques, neither of which by themselves amounted to torture, at the same time. The article goes on at length about this saying the interrogators were confused about whether they could do this.

    It also sounds like he wrote many opinions on this topic. I think they should all be turned over to Congress or made public.

    Even when used individually (none / 0) (#15)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Oct 03, 2007 at 11:19:34 PM EST
    the techniques were unprecedented.

    They are clear violation of the UN Convention on Torture which is codifed as federal law.

    Frankly,  think we know what the opinions say, they are better written versions of the Bybee memo.

    Parent

    More on Bradbury (none / 0) (#16)
    by Jeralyn on Wed Oct 03, 2007 at 11:26:33 PM EST
    LNILR posted this last year from Newsweek on Bradbury. Seems he told a closed door Senate Intelligence Committee the President has the authority to order killings within the U.S.

    Department official suggested that in certain circumstances, the president might have the power to order the killing of terrorist suspects inside the United States. Steven Bradbury, acting head of the department's Office of Legal Counsel, went to a closed-door Senate intelligence committee meeting last week to defend President George W. Bush's surveillance program. During the briefing, said administration and Capitol Hill officials (who declined to be identified because the session was private), California Democratic Sen. Dianne Feinstein asked Bradbury questions about the extent of presidential powers to fight Al Qaeda; could Bush, for instance, order the killing of a Qaeda suspect known to be on U.S. soil? Bradbury replied that he believed Bush could indeed do this, at least in certain circumstances.


    "Mr. Comey... (none / 0) (#17)
    by desertswine on Thu Oct 04, 2007 at 09:51:54 AM EST
    told colleagues at the department that they would all be "ashamed" when the world eventually learned of it"

    The word "shame" is not in their Lexicon.

    Moral Indignation (none / 0) (#18)
    by diogenes on Thu Oct 04, 2007 at 12:40:43 PM EST
    The Israelis are respected and feared if not loved by their enemies.  How do they handle these situations, whether officially or off the record?
    A US Ambassador's moral indignation never did anyone any good with a dictator.  A US Ambassador's implicit threat that the US will intervene to protect it's citizens carries a good deal of weight.
    By the way, how's the moral indignation of the world working with the Burmese regime lately?