'Round the Bloggerhood

  • Mr. Populist at Daily Kos has a nightmare to share.
  • Chris at Southern Studies asks why Colorado could save the cattle using helicopters but no helicopters were used to save the Katrina Victims.
  • What was the civil rights movement in the South in the 60's like? A new site presents the recollections of lawyers and activists who were there.
  • Scotusblog reports on late-breaking news that the U.S. Supreme Court has agreed to hear seven cases.

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    Holy cow!!!! (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by aw on Fri Jan 05, 2007 at 08:09:18 PM EST
    And I thought I had a drivers license renewal nightmare once.  Oh my gods.  If you haven't read this yet, you really must.  

    Mr. Populist:

    My own Kafkaesque experience of renewing my driver's license got me caught in the web of the Bush administration dragnet of judicial databases for outstanding warrants. The purpose of the executive order is to protect our borders from terrorism. I have no idea of how many other unsuspecting citizens have been involved in similar incidents at their state DMVs. I have the feeling the Justice Department data mining operation is much broader than unwarranted wiretapping of suspected terrorists.

    That is unreal.... (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by kdog on Sat Jan 06, 2007 at 08:02:18 AM EST
    and just the type of crap I predicted would happen when I heard about the database consolidation.

    The bigger the beuracracy, the more screw-ups that hassle supposed free Americans.

    I've lost count of the number of desk appearance summonses I've gotten in my life, let's see what joys await me when I need to renew my license...one missed key stroke by a court data-entry person and anyone of us is screwed.  


    The civil rights movement... (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by desertswine on Sat Jan 06, 2007 at 12:53:04 AM EST
    I had almost forgotten how awesomely brave these people were (and are). Inspiring.

    They were, and they are... (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by Edger on Sat Jan 06, 2007 at 10:08:53 AM EST
    In 1965, a year after the Civil Rights Act passed, I was a grade 8 student at Williamsburg Junior High, Arlington, VA. 1500 white children. That was the year they started to integrate the school. The way they did it was to enroll 4 black children. 2 boys, 2 girls. They lasted about a week, if my memory is correct. That was as long as they could put up with being beaten up, spit on and having books thrown at them in the hallways between periods. Some days, since 2001, it seems like people are trying to resurrect the mindset that was so widespread in those years.

    trying to resurrect the mindset... (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by desertswine on Sat Jan 06, 2007 at 12:18:29 PM EST
    One would have hoped that the Bull Conners' of the world would have disappeared down the sh*thole of history and evolved themselves out of existence.
    But it would seem that they merely got smarter and assumed a cloak of political respectability.

    The struggle for civil rights is never ending. Just don't fall asleep.

    I think that those four kids, and their parents, were heroes to last even that one week.


    Over (none / 0) (#19)
    by Edger on Sun Jan 07, 2007 at 09:11:25 AM EST
    here last week, while I was wondering what happened to Patriot Daily, you also asked what happened to Billmon.

    Paradox at The Left Coaster posted this on Dec. 28:

    Goodbye and Thanks, Billmon

    I agree with him that blogs failed in their mission to stop the war and George Bush. I was surprised at myself and blogtopia that after 2004 hardly anyone gave up, and indeed just worked harder. Besides the election victory of 2006, I do believe blogs do a great deal of good by keeping people engaged in the screens and away from filthy television. There are as yet organic developments to web technology and culture we have no clue about that will arrive from that growing engagement, I am positive.

    I envy Billmon, in a way, to honorably put down the sword. I have never been sure what I do in the screens is good for me, and I certainly would have been much, much happier detached from it all. It's no fun to see others note how negative one is, how down one is. Charming.

    Swopa at Firedoglake also had this to say the same day:

    Farewell, Billmon?

    Looks like somebody made a New Year's resolution that will make us all a little sad.  The deservedly legendary Billmon posted the picture above at the Whiskey Bar late last night.
    Lennon supposedly passed on a riposte via a mutual acquaintance:  "Tell him I did my part.  It's his turn now."  If Billmon has indeed shuttered the Whiskey Bar for good, that's the lesson for us -- it's our turn now.

    *my emphasis

    They both will be missed. I hope Patriot Daily is only away temporarily...


    Fortunately (none / 0) (#21)
    by Edger on Sun Jan 07, 2007 at 09:32:03 AM EST
    The Internet has a big memory. Archive dot Org operates their Wayback Machine and they had archived much of what Billmon wrote, so all is not lost, and he lives on.

    And (none / 0) (#22)
    by Edger on Sun Jan 07, 2007 at 09:33:54 AM EST
    Edger, I was... (5.00 / 1) (#50)
    by desertswine on Mon Jan 08, 2007 at 01:00:30 PM EST
    not a reader of Patriot Daily, to my own detriment I suppose, but I will certainly miss Billmon, as he was one of the most intelligent and imaginative thinkers I came across. But on the up-side, it's not the first time he quit and maybe he'll be back yet again.

    I hope so too, desertswine (none / 0) (#51)
    by Edger on Mon Jan 08, 2007 at 01:09:44 PM EST
    Patriot Daily was always right at the leading edge of the news with great interpretations and analysis.

    He posted some really good diaries here too.


    Desertswine (none / 0) (#20)
    by Edger on Sun Jan 07, 2007 at 09:23:33 AM EST
    I think that those four kids, and their parents, were heroes to last even that one week.

    I think so too. I remember thinking "they sure have guts" and wondering if I would have had enough if the situation was reversed.

    I hope so... but............ I dunno, truthfully... I think I'd have to actually be in their shoes to know if I do...


    Helicopters (3.33 / 3) (#3)
    by Strick on Sat Jan 06, 2007 at 12:00:45 AM EST
    I take it Chris at Southern Studies doesn't know his butt from a hole in the ground.  Check this link out:  http://www.afrc.af.mil/photos/index.asp?galleryID=339

    Click on each thumbnail and read the captions.  That second one from the left on the top row talks about the thousands of people helicopters saved during Katrina. You don't have to believe this report; google the subject for yourself, there are dozens of reports on how the helicopters where there immediately after the storm, saving people.

    As for feeding the people at the Superdome, even assuming you think that could have been done with helicopters, you might want to google up the reports about Louisiana officals refusing to let the Red Cross deliver food to people in the Dome.  Heck, here's what CNN said about it at the time: http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/08/katrina.redcross/index.html

    And while you're at it, check out the stories debunking much of what was reported about what was happening at the Dome after the storm. Or read this link: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2006/05/katrina_what_the_media_missed.html

    This rant might be good for someone who gets off feeling outrage, but it has nothing to do with the facts.

    You will never get the Left to engage in an honest (1.00 / 1) (#4)
    by Pancho on Sat Jan 06, 2007 at 12:20:37 AM EST
    debate about Katrina. I've tried.

    WTF are you talking about? (1.00 / 1) (#2)
    by Pancho on Fri Jan 05, 2007 at 11:56:33 PM EST
    ...no helicopters were used to save the Katrina Victims...

    Now you're just making stuff up.

    What are these?

    Pancho (none / 0) (#8)
    by Edger on Sat Jan 06, 2007 at 11:20:57 AM EST
    If you had followed (and read) the link she provided then you know that Jeralyn referred to a post by R. Neal at Chris's blog asking a very specific question:
    But it makes you wonder where the helicopters were during Katrina? Tens of thousands of people herded into the New Orleans Superdome and Convention Center like cattle went days without food, water, or medical supplies.
    "Where were the helicopters for them?" is the question...

    You are attempting to misrepresent what she said as meaning she that alleges that no helicopters were used to help any victims during the Katrina disaster.

    She might have expressed it better, but you are dishonestly, disingenuously, and intentionally putting words in her mouth. "Lying" by any other word is still....etc., Pancho, and that is what you have just done.

    If you have trouble getting anyone on what you call "the Left" to engage in an honest debate about Katrina, there is a very simple solution.

    Quit trolling. And be honest.


    edger - Want the facts?? (1.00 / 1) (#11)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jan 06, 2007 at 12:18:44 PM EST
    There were no rapes, there were no murders in the Superdome. Why?

    The National Guard had its headquarters for Katrina, not just a few peacekeeping troops, in what the media portrayed as the pit of Hell. Hell was one of the safest places to be in New Orleans, smelly as it was. The situation was always under control, not surprisingly because the people in control were always there.

    From the Dome, the Louisiana Guard's main command ran at least 2,500 troops who rode out the storm inside the city, a dozen emergency shelters, 200-plus boats, dozens of high-water vehicles, 150 helicopters, and a triage and medical center that handled up to 5,000 patients (and delivered 7 babies). The Guard command headquarters also coordinated efforts of the police, firefighters and scores of volunteers after the storm knocked out local radio, as well as other regular military and other state Guard units.

    Jack Harrison, a spokesman for the National Guard Bureau in Arlington, Virginia, cited "10,244 sorties flown, 88,181 passengers moved, 18,834 cargo tons hauled, 17,411 saves" by air. Unlike the politicians, they had a working chain of command that commandeered more relief aid from other Guard units outside the state. From day one.


    And be sure to read the links in the article.


    Same goes for "Strick".... (none / 0) (#9)
    by Edger on Sat Jan 06, 2007 at 11:30:10 AM EST
    PPJ's post sums up my feeling pretty well (none / 0) (#13)
    by Pancho on Sat Jan 06, 2007 at 01:25:42 PM EST
    regarding the helicopter issue, but I would like to discuss the failure to evacuate on a personal, local and state basis. The Left and the media (is there a difference) have mercilessly criticized the Federal government for its' failures post Katrina, but have given the individuals who failed to evacuate a free pass. Why didn't Nagin organize an evacuation? The liberal party line is that the people that did not evacuate did not have cars or places to go, but why were THOUSANDS of cars left to flood on the streets? Were these all the "extra" cars of the wealthy white people who fled to their second homes? I don't think so.

    I have plenty more to say after you show that you will respond "Honestly".


    Predictably (none / 0) (#14)
    by Edger on Sat Jan 06, 2007 at 03:45:23 PM EST
    Both ppj and pancho avoid the point that Pancho attmepted to put words in Jeralyns' mouth, and imply that she intimated something she did not. All the facts about conditions on the ground and airlifts and helicopters that were there are irrelevant to that point.

    edger (1.00 / 2) (#15)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jan 06, 2007 at 05:14:31 PM EST
    Snarky comment thought about but deleted.

    My comment was obviously to the inane comments of that website.

    Why do you attempt to defend such inacccurate and dumb comments?

    Do you realize how that makes you appear?

    Please, think of the children.


    You obviously (1.00 / 1) (#16)
    by Pancho on Sat Jan 06, 2007 at 11:01:46 PM EST
    did not read PPJs link which discussed helicopters AT THE SUPERDOME!

    Pancho - You gotta understand. (1.00 / 1) (#17)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jan 06, 2007 at 11:22:18 PM EST
    No, he read it. He just doesn't want to admit that he doesn't know what he is talking about.

    My experience (1.00 / 1) (#18)
    by Pancho on Sat Jan 06, 2007 at 11:34:11 PM EST
    in debating liberals is that they just drop the subject when confronted with the facts.

    In the Schapelle Corby thread I asked a simple question and was ripped and basically called stupid. After replying with a perfectly logical explanation that poked a HUGE hole in the other guys point, my post was deleted.

    I don't understand the fear of opposing viewpoints. I will listen to any opinion, but I will also respond with mine without telling you that you are stupid.


    Thanks for proving my point... (none / 0) (#23)
    by Edger on Sun Jan 07, 2007 at 10:41:34 AM EST
    ...both of you.

    Don't forget your party hats while you congratulate each other.


    edger, you just wanna snark (1.00 / 0) (#29)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jan 07, 2007 at 11:52:11 AM EST
    You ignore and twist the point, which was the evillll Repubs didn't get 'copters to the Superdome.

    In fact, as my link showed, they did.

    You know edger there is many things that could be debated about Katrina, but which never comes up.

    Among them:

    Why rebuild a city that can easily be wiped out next year?? Why not take all that money and help relocate the city to a safer area?

    Given that the lack of cooperation between the Feds and the state was at the ledgendary level, should the control structure be changed? Should it be all state? All Fed??? And no, pledges to cooperate next time will not be honored.


    Bravo (none / 0) (#24)
    by Pancho on Sun Jan 07, 2007 at 11:12:45 AM EST
    on a well crafted response Edgar!

    How clever of you!


    Hey - anytime pancho (none / 0) (#25)
    by Edger on Sun Jan 07, 2007 at 11:30:03 AM EST
    I'm still interested to see how you are going to deny putting words in Jeralyns' mouth and implying she said something she did not, or a least try to backpedal your way out of doing it. You're entertaining, at least.

    But you can't, can you? Your comment is sitting up there at the top of this sub-thread for the whole blogosphere to see what they are dealing with when they run across you. Or over you.

    Been fun. Have a nice day, ya hear?


    What are you talking about? (none / 0) (#26)
    by Pancho on Sun Jan 07, 2007 at 11:42:21 AM EST
    I didn't put words in anyone's mouth. The allegation  was made that no helicopters were used to save Katrina victims. Your point is that the comment regarded the Superdome specifically; OK, so PPJ responded with links showing that many helicopters were used at the SUPERDOME. What is your problem?

    Let's resolve this now, I have 30 minutes.


    It's ok, pancho (none / 0) (#28)
    by Edger on Sun Jan 07, 2007 at 11:49:36 AM EST
    You can resolve it just fine without me.

    Just go back up there and read your comment.

    I'm really sorry if you're having trouble understanding your own words. No one else is. Maybe new glasses would would help you avoid getting bitten?


    My comment was simply a quote from (none / 0) (#31)
    by Pancho on Sun Jan 07, 2007 at 11:57:37 AM EST
    Jeralyn's Summary of Chris' post:

    "Chris at Southern Studies asks why Colorado could save the cattle using helicopters but no helicopters were used to save the Katrina Victims."

    Her summary did not single out the Superdome, but for the sake of argument PPJ posted links to a Superdome helicopter rescues.

    Why can't you engage in an honest debate? Why is all the nastiness neccesary?


    Part (none / 0) (#33)
    by Edger on Sun Jan 07, 2007 at 12:04:14 PM EST
    of your comment was. Now you're selectively quoting yourself.....

    Read it again, pancho. You're digging yourself into a hole that all the backfilling in the world won't extricate you from.


    While you're at it, please explain your problem (none / 0) (#27)
    by Pancho on Sun Jan 07, 2007 at 11:46:03 AM EST
    Completey irrelevant (none / 0) (#30)
    by Edger on Sun Jan 07, 2007 at 11:52:48 AM EST
    thread hijacking attempt. You can do better, pancho.

    Can't you?


    No I made a simple point, (none / 0) (#32)
    by Pancho on Sun Jan 07, 2007 at 12:02:34 PM EST
    which is that the proposal of certifying bags at the port of entry did not make sense and would not have helped Schapelle as, by all accounts, her bags DID contain rugs upon arrival in Bali. How could they be certified drug free when they were not?

    It is amazing to me that even on a subject where we probably agree, you cannot have a civil discussion.


    irrelevant to this thread (none / 0) (#34)
    by Edger on Sun Jan 07, 2007 at 12:04:49 PM EST
    You admit that (none / 0) (#35)
    by Edger on Sun Jan 07, 2007 at 12:05:28 PM EST
    you can't do better?

    You have not even responded to my point, (none / 0) (#42)
    by Pancho on Sun Jan 07, 2007 at 11:37:03 PM EST
    what do you want?

    Go back and read (5.00 / 1) (#44)
    by aw on Mon Jan 08, 2007 at 11:39:35 AM EST
    your words "you" and "you're", Pancho and who they are addressed to.



    I'm tired of repeating myself pancho (none / 0) (#43)
    by Edger on Mon Jan 08, 2007 at 07:25:45 AM EST
    You're being wilfully dense. Start with your own comment at the top of this sub-thread and read back down to here.

    Pancho (1.00 / 0) (#36)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jan 07, 2007 at 07:50:38 PM EST
    Give it up. False claims and continual repeating while sneering is Edger's best shot.

    Just keep putting down the facts and then pointing it out.

    Oh, (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by aw on Sun Jan 07, 2007 at 09:42:17 PM EST
    get a room, will you?

    WTF (1.00 / 1) (#39)
    by Pancho on Sun Jan 07, 2007 at 10:54:38 PM EST
    is your problem? Why can't any leftist respond with an intelligent comment?

    I am honestly (1.00 / 1) (#38)
    by Pancho on Sun Jan 07, 2007 at 10:52:43 PM EST
    shocked at the complete failure to respond intelligently.

    And (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by aw on Sun Jan 07, 2007 at 11:32:47 PM EST
    you have absolutely zero sense of humor.

    Where is the humor? (1.00 / 1) (#41)
    by Pancho on Sun Jan 07, 2007 at 11:35:43 PM EST
    Pancho (5.00 / 1) (#45)
    by aw on Mon Jan 08, 2007 at 11:44:15 AM EST
    and PPJ sitting in a tree, K-I-S-S-I-N-G.
    First comes love...

    Edgar rated this comment a 5, (1.00 / 2) (#46)
    by Pancho on Mon Jan 08, 2007 at 12:41:23 PM EST
    that is just pathetic. How old are you two?

    Is there a single coherent thought between the two of you?


    Between the two of us we're 108 (5.00 / 1) (#49)
    by aw on Mon Jan 08, 2007 at 12:54:53 PM EST
    Lighten up.  Life is too short.

    TL (none / 0) (#12)
    by Wile ECoyote on Sat Jan 06, 2007 at 12:26:00 PM EST
    I guess you included Chris from Facing South to show how idiotic a blogger can look when they do no research before posting.






    Edgar, you use the exact same (none / 0) (#47)
    by Pancho on Mon Jan 08, 2007 at 12:46:40 PM EST
    M.O. as the formerly banned Charliedontsurf, which is to treat the opposition (anyone to the right of Karl Marx) as an idiot. No fact is addressed, no link is read. You post junior high level commentary and then accuse me of being stupid. What the hell is wrong with you?

    you are trolling (5.00 / 1) (#48)
    by Edger on Mon Jan 08, 2007 at 12:49:13 PM EST