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Tuesday Open Thread

Between the Denver snow storms and the holidays, it feels like I have done nothing but blog for the past ten days. It's time for me to get back to work.

Those of you at work with time to read the news and blogs and those of you lucky enough not to have to work for a living, likely will have much to opine upon.

Here's your spot.

And, in the spirit of the new year, if any of you readers would like to post diaries here, send me an email and I'll adjust your settings so you can.

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  • Display: Sort:
    they said they have nothing for Iraqis (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by Edger on Tue Jan 02, 2007 at 06:51:52 AM EST
    Bush is so deep in denial and determined to avoid facing the reality of the disaster he has created for Iraq that the administration hasn't even bothered to put in place any kind of significant relief and assistance for Iraqi's, even those who have worked for the American government:

    "We're not even meeting our basic obligation to the Iraqis who've been imperiled because they worked for the U.S. government," said Kirk W. Johnson, who worked for the United States Agency for International Development in Falluja in 2005. "We could not have functioned without their hard work, and it's shameful that we've nothing to offer them in their bleakest hour."
    ...
    Some critics say the Bush administration has been reluctant to create a significant refugee program because to do so would be tantamount to conceding failure in Iraq.
    ...
    For Iraqis, a tie to the United States is a life-threatening liability, particularly in harder-line Sunni neighborhoods
    ...
    Iraqis cannot apply directly for refugee status in the American Embassy in Baghdad.
    ...
    "They said they have nothing for Iraqis," said Amar, sitting in a small house in western Baghdad. "We feel just like stupid trash."
    ...
    The State Department spent $35 million on Iraqi refugees in Iraq and the region in 2006. The United States spends approximately $8 billion a month on the war.
    LINK

    From the same article (none / 0) (#14)
    by Edger on Tue Jan 02, 2007 at 10:22:05 AM EST
    Many Iraqis who worked for Americans have already fled the capital or the country, and many plead for help or asylum on a daily basis. Of some 40 nationalities seeking asylum in European countries in the first half of 2006, Iraqis ranked first with more than 8,100 applications, according to the United Nations.

    Remarkably few apply for refugee status in the United States, mainly because most Iraqis, even those who have worked for the United States government here, simply assume that getting American status is all but impossible.



    Parent
    So?? (3.00 / 2) (#50)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Jan 02, 2007 at 06:00:17 PM EST
    Was this private employment or governmental employment?

    If it was governmental, you can't be talking about that many people.

    If it was private, it is an issue between emplpyee and employer.

    Parent

    Senator Kennedy (none / 0) (#25)
    by Edger on Tue Jan 02, 2007 at 12:37:15 PM EST
    We Can't Ignore Iraq's Refugees, WAPO, Dec. 30/06
    Today, within Iraq, 1.6 million people have already fled or been expelled from their homes. An additional 1.8 million, fleeing sectarian violence, kidnappings, extortion, death threats and carnage, have sought refuge in neighboring countries. At least 700,000 are in Jordan, 600,000 in Syria, 100,000 in Egypt, 54,000 in Iran and 20,000 in Lebanon. Typically they are not living in refugee camps but have relocated in urban areas, where they must draw on their own meager resources to pay for food and shelter, and must depend on the good graces of the host governments.
    ...
    The recent report of the Iraq Study Group rightly concluded that if this refugee situation "is not addressed, Iraq and the region could be further destabilized, and the humanitarian suffering could be severe." Sadly, as with so many other aspects of the Iraq war -- from the growing threat of the insurgency to the need to provide adequate armor for our troops -- the administration has failed to recognize the breadth of the crisis and to adjust our policy to address the plain facts on the ground.


    Parent
    How about this? Is this snarky? (5.00 / 2) (#6)
    by aw on Tue Jan 02, 2007 at 09:11:18 AM EST
    Why can't these old dudes go off into retirement without acting like they know something?

    link

    Buh-buh-but what about those of us... (none / 0) (#20)
    by Bill Arnett on Tue Jan 02, 2007 at 11:46:37 AM EST
    ...FORCED to retire? LOL! (And you have no idea how long it took me to reach the point where I could even smile, much less laugh, about this! And it's STILL overwhelming at times!)

    Mornin', aw. Edger, everybody.

    Parent

    Hello, Bill (none / 0) (#24)
    by aw on Tue Jan 02, 2007 at 12:35:47 PM EST
    Looks like something got removed.  My comment is hanging out there on it's own now, just waiting to be misunderstood.  Dang, I hate when that happens.

    Parent
    LOL! I loved the link and was just razzin' ya. (none / 0) (#26)
    by Bill Arnett on Tue Jan 02, 2007 at 12:39:39 PM EST
    My fault, aw (none / 0) (#27)
    by Edger on Tue Jan 02, 2007 at 12:42:27 PM EST
    Your comment was in reply to someone elses accusation that I was being snarky to them. Which I was because I thought he deserved it, btw. I should know better.

    Parent
    Yeah, (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by aw on Tue Jan 02, 2007 at 01:08:48 PM EST
    well, it's kind of hard not swatting at a fly when it's buzzing around your head.

    Parent
    Well, flies hadn't crossed my mind... (none / 0) (#33)
    by Edger on Tue Jan 02, 2007 at 01:14:27 PM EST
    ...but now that you mention it, it's a pretty good image. ;-)

    Parent
    Wow (5.00 / 4) (#18)
    by Che's Lounge on Tue Jan 02, 2007 at 11:09:59 AM EST
    Is that cruel? Not in my view. I didn't cause them to be born in Iraq. I didn't cause them to take jobs in Saddam's regime. They made the decision. It worked for a time. Now it doesn't.  

    Jim, you are really coming out swinging for the '07 stupidest-comment-of-the-year award.

    Of all of the corner-painted, false justifications for the many different atrocities we have committed on Iraq over the last 17 years, blaming the Iraqis themselves for the consequences of their current plights has got to be the most intellectually vacuous, and devoid of any empathy whatsoever. Oh, sure, you were only referring to the immigration situation. Yet I view that as a symptom of your larger case of denial and rationalization. But of course, the whole thing is my fault for resisting the invasion in the first place.

    La La land. With nukes. Pretty scary.

    Che (1.00 / 2) (#54)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Jan 02, 2007 at 06:24:42 PM EST
    Che - If you can't recognize the truth, that's your problem.

    BTW - We didn't go for a regime change to import a couple million or so folks from Iraq.

    BTW - Any supposed bad stuff we may have done wasn't even considered in my comment. Why do you include it in?

    BTW - Check this out. If Saddam had not been allowed to come to power and to have remained in power, then the current situation would not exist. So by the Iraqi people choosing to not fix the problem, they wound up being part of the problem.

    Germans let Hitler come to power, and lived to regret it. Italy and Japan also had the same problem.

    Now. If there had been continous riots, revolts, etc., you could argue that they were trying.

    And in some cases, they were. But the fact remains, Saddam was an Iraqi problem that we decided to fix because they either would not or could not.

    Parent

    A couple of interesting items re: bush... (5.00 / 3) (#22)
    by Bill Arnett on Tue Jan 02, 2007 at 12:17:36 PM EST
    ...Iraqi plans from the NYT (All the News Republicans Tell Us We Can Print, as to why General Casey is toast):

    Yet not everybody at the Pentagon shared General's Casey's confidence. The Defense Intelligence Agency had briefed the White House in early 2006 that the insurgency was winning in Iraq, according to a former military officer. The briefing, which chronicled the steady rise in the number of attacks, prompted a counter-briefing from General Casey's intelligence chief, who prepared an analysis tracing the positive trends in Iraq.

    Data gathered by General Casey's own command, which showed a steady increase in weekly attacks and civilian casualties, lent support to the Defense Intelligence Agency assessment.

    HERE

    [snip]

    ...He [Lt. Col. James Danna] said that like the first Baghdad security operation, the second also failed. As the American elections approached, White House officials say, they believed it would amount to political suicide to announce a broad reassessment of Iraq strategy. But they recognized that unless they began such a review, they would be forced to accept the conclusions of the final report of the Iraq Study Group -- headed by James A. Baker III, the former Republican secretary of state, and Lee H. Hamilton, the former Democratic congressman.

    Mr. Bush still insists on talking about victory, even if his own advisers differ about how to define it. "It's a word the American people understand," he told members of the Iraq Study Group who came to see him at the White House in November, according to two commission members who attended. "And if I start to change it, it will look like I'm beginning to change my policy."

    HERE

    What a confidence inspiring C-in-C, eh? Can't work his way out of a wet paper bag, doesn't want to be seen as unable to work his way out of a wet paper bag, so he puts a wet paper bag over his head so he won't have to listen to anyone criticize him for being unable to escape a wet paper bag,and that prevents putting together a plan to work his way out of the wet paper bag.

    Nice job, mr. boosh

    Confidence inspiring C-in-C INDEED.... (none / 0) (#23)
    by Edger on Tue Jan 02, 2007 at 12:28:44 PM EST
    He thinks he knows better than the Generals.

    From your NYT link:

    Mr. Bush made it clear that he was not interested in any ideas that would simply allow American forces to stabilize the violence. Gen. James T. Conway, the Marine commandant, later told marines about the president's message.

    "What I want to hear from you is how we're going to win," he quoted the president as warning his commanders, "not how we're going to leave."


    *emphasis and underlining mine

    Parent
    Edger (1.00 / 2) (#55)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Jan 02, 2007 at 06:27:00 PM EST
    Doesn't make any difference. The President sets the goals. The military can support or resign.

    Parent
    I'm sure there will be more Generals... (none / 0) (#28)
    by Bill Arnett on Tue Jan 02, 2007 at 12:45:19 PM EST
    ...like Casey taking early retirement rather than stay associated with this lost cause.

    It's pretty common knowledge that Rummy personally spoke to every flag officer on active duty and TOLD them that they would either support bush, right or wrong, or they WOULD retire.

    Parent

    At least (none / 0) (#29)
    by Edger on Tue Jan 02, 2007 at 12:56:02 PM EST
    Casey will retain his principles and self-respect. Bush has none of the first and for him the second is self-delusion.

    Parent
    I don't know about that. He'll also... (none / 0) (#34)
    by Bill Arnett on Tue Jan 02, 2007 at 01:22:49 PM EST
    ...have to live with the fact that many, many good soldiers died under his command while he kept his mouth shut to further his career. He is being forced to retire only because bush wants to maintain the illusion that we are "winning", or I guess that would be bush's "delusion" that we're winning, while being enabled, aided, and abetted by the cowardly flag officers that remain to serve their careers and not America.

    I know that's a pretty harsh assessment, but called for, IMO, under these circumstances.

    Future War Colleges will cite Iraq as what happens when you forget the historical lessons of Vietnam and hopefully will train future flag officers to be more aggressive when confronted with a recalcitrant and truculent C-in-C.

    Parent

    Well yes. (none / 0) (#35)
    by Edger on Tue Jan 02, 2007 at 01:26:26 PM EST
    Maybe I was being too kind too him, but it seems that at least he hasn't lost the ability to learn from his mistakes?

    Parent
    I'll give ya that one. Let's hope he spends... (none / 0) (#40)
    by Bill Arnett on Tue Jan 02, 2007 at 02:01:46 PM EST
    ...a LOT of time contemplating the surrender of his integrity, and hope he tries to rectify the situation with a "tell-all" accounting from his point of view.

    Parent
    I think, or at least hope, (none / 0) (#41)
    by Edger on Tue Jan 02, 2007 at 02:20:29 PM EST
    that there will be a sudden flood of "tell-alls" sometime in the next couple of years, as some of them try to purge themselves.

    Parent
    Vonnegut.... (5.00 / 1) (#46)
    by kdog on Tue Jan 02, 2007 at 05:18:46 PM EST
    Finally got around to reading "A Man Without A Country" over the holidays...a few of my favorite Vonne-gisms from the book.

    By saying that our leaders are power-drunk chimpanzees, am I in danger of wrecking the morale of our soldiers fighting and dying in the Middle East?  Their morale, like so many lifeless bodies, is already shot to pieces.  They are being treated, as I never was, like toys a rich kid got for Christmas.

    Here's what I think the truth is: We are all addicts of fossil fuels in a state of denial.  And like so many addicts about to face cold turkey, our leaders are now committing violent crimes to get what little is left of what we're hooked on.

    Obviously, I highly recommend.

    kdog (1.00 / 1) (#56)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Jan 02, 2007 at 06:28:18 PM EST
    Wonderful. All complaints and no suggestions beyond cut and run...

    Parent
    Read it.... (none / 0) (#62)
    by kdog on Wed Jan 03, 2007 at 10:29:50 AM EST
    Jim, its a good one.

    He lived through Dresden.  He, unlike the people who brought us this grave sin of a war, knows of what he speaks.  He's been there.

    Parent

    "A Man Without A Country" (none / 0) (#47)
    by Edger on Tue Jan 02, 2007 at 05:24:43 PM EST
    Sounds like a good one, kdog - thx for the rec!

    Parent
    Vonnegut... (none / 0) (#49)
    by desertswine on Tue Jan 02, 2007 at 05:57:06 PM EST
    is a national treasure.

    Parent
    Does anyone... (none / 0) (#1)
    by Edger on Tue Jan 02, 2007 at 01:40:40 AM EST
    ...have any idea what happened to Patriot Daily? Their website has been gone for a couple of weeks now... and no comment here from him either.

    Trade (1.00 / 2) (#2)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Jan 02, 2007 at 06:36:03 AM EST
    Unfortunately not having to work translates to retirement which translates to age...

    Anybody wanna trade some years???

    Parent

    Patriot Daily (none / 0) (#15)
    by Jeralyn on Tue Jan 02, 2007 at 10:43:31 AM EST
    is on hiatus.

    Parent
    Thanks Jeralyn (none / 0) (#17)
    by Edger on Tue Jan 02, 2007 at 10:55:37 AM EST
    Any idea till when?

    Parent
    Patriot Daily? (none / 0) (#48)
    by desertswine on Tue Jan 02, 2007 at 05:55:01 PM EST
    What happened to Billmon?

    Parent
    Good question (none / 0) (#60)
    by Edger on Wed Jan 03, 2007 at 09:33:45 AM EST
    maybe they are leading the charge up Pennsylvania Ave. together? ;-)

    Parent
    Your point... (none / 0) (#11)
    by Edger on Tue Jan 02, 2007 at 09:34:20 AM EST
    ...is one of the causes of hatred and terrorism.

    But no one expects you to get it, Jim.

    edger (1.00 / 2) (#13)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Jan 02, 2007 at 09:42:01 AM EST
    There are billions of people in the world who would like to be in the US.

    Why do you, and others who support open boarders, think that any and all hardships mean that we should let them in?

    Is that cruel? Not in my view. I didn't cause them to be born in Iraq. I didn't cause them to take jobs in Saddam's regime. They made the decision. It worked for a time. Now it doesn't.  

    Let them stay in their country and work for a stable and democratic secular Iraq.

    As for the Shia who are in danger, I have some sympathy, but it again returns to why. If they wanted Saddam overthrown, good they got what they wanted. Now they should try and establish a stable and democtayic secular Iraq.

    Parent

    Holy cow (5.00 / 1) (#30)
    by aw on Tue Jan 02, 2007 at 01:03:02 PM EST
    Is that cruel? Not in my view. I didn't cause them to be born in Iraq. I didn't cause them to take jobs in Saddam's regime. They made the decision. It worked for a time. Now it doesn't.  

    Let them stay in their country and work for a stable and democratic secular Iraq.

    As for the Shia who are in danger, I have some sympathy, but it again returns to why. If they wanted Saddam overthrown, good they got what they wanted. Now they should try and establish a stable and democtayic secular Iraq.

    Is there anything in this comment that isn't backwards, upside-down, inside-out, twisted and unreal?

    Parent

    What a concept (1.00 / 1) (#52)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Jan 02, 2007 at 06:08:40 PM EST
    Are you trying to say I am responsible for their place of birth and their actions?

    Hmmm. That ranks right up with Rove's power to cause hurricanes.

    And gee. I want them to stay in their country and solve their problems?

    Wow. What a concept.

    So let me see. You want the US military out and all those in Iraq who just want to leave..

    Parent

    Don't you mean "SURREAL"? (none / 0) (#32)
    by Bill Arnett on Tue Jan 02, 2007 at 01:10:50 PM EST
    Disconnected (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by aw on Tue Jan 02, 2007 at 01:30:37 PM EST
    HAL: I'm afraid. I'm afraid, Dave. Dave, my mind is going. I can feel it. I can feel it. My mind is going. There is no question about it. I can feel it. I can feel it. I can feel it. I'm a... fraid. Good afternoon, gentlemen. I am a HAL 9000 computer. I became operational at the H.A.L. plant in Urbana, Illinois on the 12th of January 1992. My instructor was Mr. Langley, and he taught me to sing a song. If you'd like to hear it I can sing it for you.
    Dave Bowman: Yes, I'd like to hear it, HAL. Sing it for me.
    HAL: It's called "Daisy."
    [sings while slowing down]
    HAL: Daisy, Daisy, ....

    Parent
    Hal... (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by Edger on Tue Jan 02, 2007 at 01:40:08 PM EST
    Jeez (none / 0) (#38)
    by aw on Tue Jan 02, 2007 at 01:45:11 PM EST
    now I'll never get rid of that image.

    Parent
    Sorry (none / 0) (#39)
    by Edger on Tue Jan 02, 2007 at 01:57:24 PM EST
    Ack!!!! (none / 0) (#42)
    by aw on Tue Jan 02, 2007 at 02:24:46 PM EST
    They just might (none / 0) (#16)
    by Edger on Tue Jan 02, 2007 at 10:46:16 AM EST
    stay in their country and work for a stable and democratic secular Iraq... if Bush and his supporters stopped destroying their country, their countries stability, their countries infrastructure, and their countries children, women, and men.

    Parent
    Actually, if you wanted to know the top... (none / 0) (#21)
    by Bill Arnett on Tue Jan 02, 2007 at 11:57:54 AM EST
    ...100 cities in the world to live in, as shown HERE You don't find a US city until you hit #25, Honolulu, & 28, San Francisco (and I know that just chaps the @$$ of the trolls here), with other cities in the US far behind, so, technically, if you're looking for the best place to live, the U,S. is pretty far down the list; probably farther down the list every year.

    Ain't that somethin'?

    Parent

    I dont know about your math but I see (none / 0) (#43)
    by demohypocrates on Tue Jan 02, 2007 at 03:08:48 PM EST
    approximately 20% of cities on that list are in the US.  Considering the US population comprises only about 5% of the world's population, thats not too shabby and certainly does NOT mean that the US is "pretty far down the list".

    Parent
    We're also... (none / 0) (#45)
    by Dadler on Tue Jan 02, 2007 at 05:04:11 PM EST
    ...by FAR the largest country on the list, both in terms of population and geography.  Germany has 6 cities, little New Zealand 2 (100% of their qualifying cities).  At their rates, we should have about 40 of the top 50.

    Comparatively, that is indeed pretty far down.

    Parent

    Dadler (none / 0) (#51)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Jan 02, 2007 at 06:05:02 PM EST
    Yes, the terrible US.

    Now. Will someone make sure all those people trying to get here get this valuable information?

    Parent

    urban legend (none / 0) (#44)
    by Jen M on Tue Jan 02, 2007 at 04:46:56 PM EST
    There are billions of people in the world who would like to be in the US.

    Many people want to come to the USA yes. Many come out of desperation as a last resort. Because the US is the best last resort they can think of.

    Most people in this world are like most americans. They like their own country, thank you very much, and other than maybe wanting to visit disneyworld dont really want to come here.

    I lived in Brazil and Costa Rica with enough time in   Mexico, Nicaragua, and Norway to know this for a certainty.

    Parent

    Jen M (1.00 / 1) (#53)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Jan 02, 2007 at 06:14:10 PM EST
    And I have lived in Canada, Beligum, Italy, Germany and a short spell in Russia, Spain and PR.

    Now that we've displayed our vast experience, I agree. Most people are like most people. And yes, most would like to stay where they were born and raised..

    That doesn't change my point one bit. Billions of people, for whatever reason, want to come to the US.

    So, what's your point??

    BTW - Speaking of foreign countries lived in... I did three years in Chicago... ;-)

    Parent

    my point is (none / 0) (#57)
    by Jen M on Tue Jan 02, 2007 at 11:40:40 PM EST
    its not the entire population of earth minus about half a billion

    Parent
    I would love (none / 0) (#58)
    by Jen M on Tue Jan 02, 2007 at 11:42:55 PM EST
    to live in Chicago. I was born there but never really lived there.  

    Would love to live in Canada too.

    Does living inside the DC Beltway count as foreign country or just a strange place?

    Parent

    Jen M (none / 0) (#59)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Jan 03, 2007 at 07:00:59 AM EST
    Actually I was joking about Chicago. Not a bad place unless you are a Cub fan...

    Inside the beltway?  Well, it seems to be isolated from reality. Do they play the theme from "The Twilight Zone" at sundown everyday?

    Canada isn't bad if you are in the far east or far west. It's the middle that will freeze your butt off.

    As for cities, I love Los Angeles. Good friends, good food, good poker.... Now if it was just in the US...

    Parent

    Fmr. Jerusalem Mayor "Teddy" Kollek dies (none / 0) (#19)
    by scribe on Tue Jan 02, 2007 at 11:34:55 AM EST
    aged 95.  Whatever else one could say, he did somehow manage to keep that city from blowing up on his lengthy watch, mostly through force of personality.

    May he rest in peace.

    WWII (none / 0) (#61)
    by jondee on Wed Jan 03, 2007 at 09:50:15 AM EST
    These absolutely shameless chickenhawks exploit   the resonance of WWII to sell "regime change in the M.E" the way the beer companies use t*tties to sell sixpacks.

    Indiana ........Muncie Free Press (none / 0) (#63)
    by avahome on Wed Jan 03, 2007 at 10:44:25 AM EST
    Anyone heard...interested.......here's a look see:

    http://scoop.epluribusmedia.org/story/2006/12/28/143324/56

    Iran (none / 0) (#64)
    by Edger on Thu Jan 04, 2007 at 07:36:09 PM EST
    Military Action Needed Against Iran, Israeli Think Tank Says
    By Julie Stahl, CNSNews.com Jerusalem Bureau Chief
    January 04, 2007
    The international community must use all diplomatic options at its disposal to stop Iran from obtaining nuclear weapons, but in the end military force will be necessary, the director of a leading think tank here said on Thursday.
    2007: Decisive Year for the Israeli-Neocon Attack Iran Plan
    by Kurt Nimmo,
    Global Research, January 2, 2007
    "As an American strike in Iran is essential for our existence, we must help him pave the way by lobbying the Democratic Party (which is conducting itself foolishly) and US newspaper editors," declares Israeli Brigadier General Oded Tira. "We need to do this in order to turn the Iranian issue to a bipartisan one and unrelated to the Iraq failure."
    ...
    Come the invasion of Iran, Hezbollah's resistance will look like an informal dress rehearsal by way of comparison.

    As it now appears, 2007 will be the decisive year for Israel's long-planned attack on Iran, thanks to a never-ending stream of propaganda and the easily exploitable ignorance of the American people. "The Bush administration, with the able help of the Israeli government and the pro-Israel Lobby, has succeeded in exploiting the ignorance of the American people about nuclear technology and nuclear weapons," writes Scott Ritter. "If there is an American war with Iran, it is a war that was made in Israel and nowhere else."

    In addition to AIPAC influence and the overtime work of the neocons, the latter with a virtual electronic forum thanks to the corporate media and the former now diligently canvassing Congress for easily won support, there is Bush's "legacy" to consider.

    "Bush can't stop now," writes Scott Horton. "He figures his legacy as a disgrace to America and all mankind can be postponed or perhaps somehow even reversed if he could have just a little more time.