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On Iraq Escalation: Obama Has The Right Idea, But Maybe Not The Right Proposal

Barack Obama will propose legislation on Iraq:

It now falls on Congress to find a way to support our troops in the field while still preventing the President from multiplying his previous mistakes. That is why I not only favor capping the number U.S. troops in Iraq, but believe it’s imperative that we begin the phased redeployment I called for two months ago, and intend to introduce legislation that does just that.”

The thrust of Obama's statement is good. Indeed, the emphasis on withdrawal is exactly right. But Obama falls into the trap of believing the Congress can order withdrawal, phased or immediate. As I wrote a week ago:

The bottom line is clear. WHETHER the United States enters war or CONTINUES at war is the exclusive decision of the Congress. Bt the CONDUCT of that specific war, subject to Congress power of military rulemaking (on torture, the UCMJ, the Geneva Conventions, etc.), belongs exclusively to the President. The Congress' power here seems clear to me. IT can END the Iraq war. But it can not dictate how it is conducted on military questions. That power belongs to the President.

My plan is this:

[T]o set a date when funding ends, say October 30, 2007. Announce it NOW. Vote on it NOW. Then it is up to Bush to have the troops out by then. If he does not, then he is the one endangering the troops. He has 9 months to get them out. This is the only policy and plan left. And it is good politics. The American People will support such an action. In fact, I bet at least a third of Republicans in the House and Senate vote for it.

< The Gonzo Constitution | General Casey: Withdrawal of Troops To Start This Summer >
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    Your plan won't work either.... (none / 0) (#1)
    by Key on Thu Jan 18, 2007 at 05:50:45 PM EST
    The problem with your plan, as I see it, is that in 9 months Bush will say the Dems won't extend funding that is vital to our troops.  Bush will say the Dems are abandoning the troops.

    The Dems can, for 9 months, talk about how the funding is ending, talk about how Bush needs to bring them back before it ends.  But then when time comes to pass, the troops will be there and Congress will have to fund them.

    That would be a big problem for the democrats, and an even bigger problem for our troops.

    I honestly think the quickest way to bring the troops home will be, sadly, to elect a new president who will bring them home.  Republican, Democrat.... doesn't matter.  The one who says they will bring them home ASAP, and who has the credibility and can be believed to do just that, will win the election.

    This is why McCain can't win.  Or Clinton.  Obama?  Maybe he can.

    Say.... anyone think that Hagel might try a run for the Whitehouse?

    But the public doesn't believe Bush (none / 0) (#2)
    by Dadler on Thu Jan 18, 2007 at 05:58:47 PM EST
    And hasn't for some time now.  If the Dems simply spoke loudly and clearly and rationally to the American people, and then stood by those words with concrete actions, Bush's noise would be heard for the empty claptrap it is.  But the Dems, for whatever reason, are still not speaking and acting as boldly as they can and must.  

    Parent
    I wish it were so.... (none / 0) (#5)
    by Key on Thu Jan 18, 2007 at 09:31:27 PM EST
    but when it comes down to it, the troops will be there, funding will be gone, and then what?  You'll have the dems saying "we told you it was coming" and Bush saying, "the Dems cut funding.  They are abandoning the troops.  They are playing politics with our boys lives....."

    And no matter how loud or long or hard the dems press it, the media is going to do what they almost always do, and whip up the whole thing into a frenzy  and take the Preznit's side.

    Parent

    Courageous Leadership (none / 0) (#3)
    by Fredo on Thu Jan 18, 2007 at 06:57:17 PM EST
    "Jan. 18, 2007[ABC News] -- There may be a growing battle between Congress and the president over the Iraq War strategy, but new House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., said she won't block funding for additional troops.

    "Pelosi's position, revealed in an exclusive interview with ABC News' Diane Sawyer, came a day after a group of senators announced a bipartisan resolution condemning the Bush administration's plan to increase U.S. forces in Iraq by more than 20,000 troops."

    Ah, yes.  Attentive readers will recall that Fredo told them of this certaintly more than a week ago.  Who was it who exalted the Congress's "plenary" power of the purse?  Oh, this is rich...

    Attentive readers... (none / 0) (#10)
    by desertswine on Fri Jan 19, 2007 at 10:38:56 AM EST
    will note that Fredo's comments have been limited to four gaseous exhalations a day.

    Fredo is Limited (none / 0) (#2)
    by Jeralyn on Wed Jan 17, 2007 at 10:31:12 PM EST

    to four comments a day. All in excess will be deleted. He has become a chatterer.  See the comment policy.



    Parent
    Thank yoy, thank you, O god, thank you! (none / 0) (#14)
    by Bill Arnett on Fri Jan 19, 2007 at 12:14:30 PM EST
    And thank you as well, Jeralyn.

    Parent
    Awww.... too bad (none / 0) (#15)
    by Edger on Fri Jan 19, 2007 at 12:21:20 PM EST
    well... we still have Alberto Gonzo. The MSM will bring us all of his gaseous exhalations regularly. ;-)

    Parent
    Obama is just another color of status quo. (none / 0) (#4)
    by aahpat on Thu Jan 18, 2007 at 07:37:46 PM EST
    Ending the Drug War in the new U.S. congress

    2008 Democratic presidential candidate Dennis Kucinich this week was appointed to chair the Domestic Policy Subcommittee of the Government Reform Committee.

    Kucinich, an ardent opponent of the drug war, will preside over the operations of the White House Office of National Drug Control Policy.

    RoboCop International (none / 0) (#6)
    by squeaky on Thu Jan 18, 2007 at 11:07:41 PM EST
    Since the Chimp cannot admit defeat, cutting off funds to force the issue seems to be the only option.

    Not so. No more playing The Emperor's New Clothes.  

    Congress just has to pull together and get our 'boys' out of there ASAP. If it comes to it, congress must pass laws ASAP that give amnesty to soldiers that want out of the Iraq quagmire and provide transportation and fund longterm postwar trauma support.

    As for the war reparations penalties, just cancel one or two of the  porkified defense contracts.  $250,000,000,000- $500,000,000,000 dollars in cash to the Iraqi people should be some compensation for the death and havok we wreaked on their country.

    Opposition better be heard (none / 0) (#7)
    by plumberboy on Fri Jan 19, 2007 at 05:14:04 AM EST
    The democrats better always makes their opposition to the war loud and clear it is one of the one main reasons they were voted in,so hopefully our democrat friends in congress continue their pursuit of ending this ridiculous war and stopping the Bush nazi machine from continuing.The power of the purse is mighty but remember this president don't have to worry about re -election.This is why his attitude is like get bent I do whatever I want regardless of what the American voter says or congress ultimately the only way is Impeachment or wait till 2008 for a new president.Because if they cut-off funding they ultimately be hurting just our troops because president Bush don't care about troops or anyone so he will put our troops in danger and not care about the results so the power of the purse should be excercised with extreme caution they are dealing with a mad man.

    plumberboy (none / 0) (#8)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Jan 19, 2007 at 09:00:24 AM EST
    What we have here is a failure to understand that we have a republic, not a parliment.

    Our elected officals are elected for fixed terms. They do not have to, and in many cases should not, pay attention to what the people and/or the other group, say. I give you the House and the Senate. Desigined to do just what I have noted.

    In other words, opinion polls and passions of the minute are protected against.

    The grounds for impeachment are also wonderfully murky. Hard to define and hard to prove. Again designed to prevent sudden moves and changes.

    So Bush can, and will, ignore Congress to a large degree. If the ant-war Demos and Repubs can cut off funding by actually doing so, or just not renewing, they will have to be able to overcome a veto. That is possible, but totally unlikely.

    I repeat myself. This is all mental masturbation designed to show everyone how anti-war "we" (not me) are.

    Parent

    Government of the people (none / 0) (#32)
    by plumberboy on Sat Jan 20, 2007 at 04:30:03 AM EST
    Our government is suppose to be by the people for the people.The fact is that whenever the public speaks out strongly against any issue the powers in control better listen if they don't we the people have a duty to make sure our opposition is heard through petitions,the ballot box or whatever means the majority can sway the government in its direction.I understand we are a republic but we are also a democratic society where for the most part the majority rules.The polls do matter in a sense they help give our government a little understanding to where public opinion is the public they represent.That is what elected officals do in America they try to represent the majority of the values or beliefs of the people who elected them.The facts are most people hate the government only 19% of Americans trust their government today and yet our goverment bops around the world like the moral police setting up goverments in another nation when they at this point can't earn the trust of their own citizen's.I was taught to not worry about the splinter in someone elses eye when there is a log in your own eye.The government maybe should learn this lesson.

    Parent
    Plumberboy... still confused (none / 0) (#36)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jan 20, 2007 at 09:24:08 AM EST
    You write:

    I understand we are a republic but we are also a democratic society where for the most part the majority rules.... That is what elected officals do in America they try to represent the majority of the values or beliefs of the people who elected them..

    Surely you jest. You still appear confused. The majority "rules" only within the boundaries of the constitution. We are not a Parliamentary government, there is no such thing as a loss of confidence and/or calling new elections.

    Polls, petitions, protests, etc., are a method to try and get the attention of the politicians. Whether or not they pay attention and make changes is entirely up to them.

    The ballot box is the constitutional way we have of changing members of the executive, congressional and (eventually) the political and social philosophy of  the judicial.

    The constitution was deliberately written so that the House can respond quickly. It can actually be 100% changed every two years. Since the Senate can change only  1/3 (one third) every two years it is a brake on popular demands that may actually, be wrong.

    The judiciary, being appointed for life, is a further brake on change. You might even find this good. I refer you to members who have, time and again, resisted demands for loss of women's rights by many on the Right. And, BTW, causing the Right to demand that the judicial respond to the wants and desires of the "majority."

    The Executive is limited to two terms to prevent it from acquiring too much power. This works against both parties. Reagan and Clinton both could have been elected to a third term, although Reagan's age and health probably would have prevented him from running.

    The only other method of change is impeachment, which you would probably support.

    Americans hate to lose, and if the anti-war Left and Demos are able to force our troops to cut and run, you can expect a backlash from people you think are against "the war" but who are actually only against "how we have fought the war." You should remember that the Senate was won due to several races that were won by the Demos with only the slimmest of margins. I would advise you to remember the joy and forecasts by the Repubs in January of 2005.

    Life and politics are uncertain things. Nixon begat Carter who begat Reagan.

    I hope this refresher on middle school civics has helped.

    Parent

    ppj (none / 0) (#9)
    by jondee on Fri Jan 19, 2007 at 10:11:10 AM EST
    If you dont think Bush's compatriots view polls in terms of potential long term harm to the future of the party caused by the failure of present policy, then you've been doing too much of the actual kind and not enough of the mental kind.

    Jondee (none / 0) (#16)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Jan 19, 2007 at 12:45:49 PM EST
    Bush's compatriots can view what ever and why ever. Bush doesn't. And the Repubs understand that supporting an effort at impeachment would be a lose-lose situation.

    So wait for '08, Jondee. My bet is that the Demos will lose the Presidential election. Maybe both Congress.

    Parent

    Predictions (none / 0) (#33)
    by Ernesto Del Mundo on Sat Jan 20, 2007 at 07:46:32 AM EST
    This is the guy that said John Kerry was gonna lose the 2006 elections for the Democrats.

    Why do you hate America, Jim?

    Parent

    DA (none / 0) (#12)
    by Che's Lounge on Fri Jan 19, 2007 at 11:35:31 AM EST
    We love you, you crazy person!

    DA does windows (none / 0) (#38)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jan 20, 2007 at 09:36:14 AM EST
    The Dark Avenger did not return to his lair, but remained outside for a but longer.

    Uh... I said twisted comments, not twisted insults.
    But if you want to say you were writing insults, who am I to argue?

    Uh yes, Plumberboy thinks that the majority rules and that politicans must respond to the demands of the people... The Dark Avenger must also need some assistance. I recommend you read my reply to his reply to my reply to his comment...

    And "sweetie?" Really? Well hugs and hugs, oh Dark One. Do you also do windows??

    Parent

    The only way to win a war like this (none / 0) (#13)
    by peacrevol on Fri Jan 19, 2007 at 11:46:39 AM EST
    Is to get the every day citizens on your side and involved. There will never be enough troops and there will never be enough Iraqi troops and LE to stop terrorist groups w/o getting the Iraqi citizens involved. Examples are to have them contact the IRAQI police when they see something unusually threatening, dangerous, or illegal. In the ole US of A, if you see somebody breaking into the house across the street, you call the police, right? I'm sure Patrick would tell you, if he was around, that he couldnt do his job nearly as effectively as he did if it werent for the citizens of the area under his jurisdiction. The power is in the hands of the masses, and the longer we stay over there w/o solving anything, the more Iraqis will abandon our way of thinking, shifting the power away from us.

    Setting a date to end funding is a good idea...but it will only work if we have a pres. who understands how to win this thing and can press the right buttons to make it happen before time is up. The biggest problem is how do you get the citizens involved and how much time should the pres have to get it wrapped up. I dont know that anything like that has ever really been done, but I suspect that if the Iraqis know they have to be ready to take control of their country by X date, they'll get their preverbial $h!t together so that they'll be ready.

    peacrevol (none / 0) (#19)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Jan 19, 2007 at 01:14:43 PM EST
    Uh, the citizens are involved. In case you have missed it we have a Presidential election every four years.

    And setting "dates" for us to cut and run just informs the terrorist how long they have to wait before we lose and they win. I mean really.

    Your point about people in Iraq calling the police has a certain amount of appeal until you realize that when that happens, the terrorist's buds come and kill the person who made the call.

    This has a chilling effect on "doing the right thing," as I am sure you will agree.

    The first thing that must happen is to kill enough of the terrorists, and especially their leaderships, to convince them to stop. And I use "terrorists" as a catch all word to include milita of all strikes, insurgents and assorted memebers of al-Qeada, Iranian freedome loving helpers, etc.

    Parent

    You try to confuse (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by peacrevol on Fri Jan 19, 2007 at 02:37:00 PM EST
    Uh, the citizens are involved. In case you have missed it we have a Presidential election every four years.

    What? OK...uh...I remember something about elections, but I dont really remember talking about that...re-read the post. The IRAQI citizens have to get involved on a deeper level than elections and beyond choosing sides and talking about it.

    And setting "dates" for us to cut and run just informs the terrorist how long they have to wait before we lose and they win. I mean really.

    That wont matter if the insurgents are choked out by the citizens.

    Your point about people in Iraq calling the police has a certain amount of appeal until you realize that when that happens, the terrorist's buds come and kill the person who made the call.

    Except that the police wont tell anybody who made the call...Hard to kill somebody for something if you dont know who did it.

    The first thing that must happen is to kill enough of the terrorists, and especially their leaderships, to convince them to stop. And I use "terrorists" as a catch all word to include milita of all strikes, insurgents and assorted memebers of al-Qeada, Iranian freedome loving helpers, etc.

    OK...so where are they? Who are these "terrorists" you speak of? How are we going to kill them without killing civilians? How are we going to know them from the civilians?

    That was our strategy going in...just kill all the insurgents and shut off their money supplies. We found out that their money supplies are inconspicuous and plentiful. It also turns out that our intellegence cant keep up w/ the changes they make before they blow something else up. Also, it's hard to tell who's who...ie who should you shoot and who should you let walk. They're not exactly wearing red coats, shouting, and blowing bugles you know. Another problem is that if all of the intellegence works in time to do something, they operate in small groups. So at one time, you'll only catch a handful of them and it might take several weeks or months to set up a raid on one of their strongholds. It's a very inefficient way to fight them and it looks like it's not working very well. That's why we need to change our strategy.

    Parent

    Change our strategy? (none / 0) (#26)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Jan 19, 2007 at 04:45:28 PM EST
    Uh... since every comment is screaming impeachment, etc., I assumned you were speaking about American citizens. But if you want to say that you were speaking only about Iraqi citizens, just read the second half of my comment.

    Oh. You did. You just can't seem to understand. Evidently you haven't be reading the news.

    Let me answer your questions.

    First, we the various milita. Suni, Shia, Kurdish.

    Then we have the Baath party, who may, or may not, have elements of/in Suni militia.

    And then we have the Iranians who may, or not, be part of all Shia milita, or just part of some.

    Then we have al-Qaida who may be all by themselves, or scattered aross the Shia.

    As Bush pointed out, in the past we haven't been cleaning these folks out because of variouys political pressures. He says that must stop and will not be tolerated. That's what the new troops are for. Based on the complaints detailed here, I would say we are making progress.

    Now, since you can't see how we can do it, then you don't think we can win. Okay. I see your point. You believe it is a lost cause, and
    don't understand that until you kill enough terrorists to allow the non-terrorists to feel not threatened, then you can't expect their cooperation.

    And, of course, as long as the Left and the Demos... they are actually one and the same now days...are demanding that we cut and run, the terrorists will be emboldened and believe that they can win if they just hang on.

    Do you see what I say you guys aren't supporting the troops??

    Parent

    HAHAHA (none / 0) (#52)
    by peacrevol on Mon Jan 22, 2007 at 10:36:05 AM EST
    Do you see what I say you guys aren't supporting the troops??

    riiiiiiight...I'm not supporting the troups. Strange b/c marines are normally pretty slow about supporting the troops - right?

    First, we the various milita. Suni, Shia, Kurdish.

    Then we have the Baath party, who may, or may not, have elements of/in Suni militia.

    You missed some...there are also Hanafi Sunnis and Ja'fari Sunnis and Shafi'i Sunnis. Oh and then Sufi Kurds. Oh there are some Christians and Jews over there, too.

    What's the difference how many militias there are? Or how many religious groups? The point is that the Iraqi citizens need to be as committed to ending random bombings and senseless killings as we are - otherwise, it's not going to work. That's what is meant when people say that the Iraq war is now a political war.

    AND for the record, I do support the military b/c if circumstances were only slightly different, I'd probably still be over there fighting against violence and sandstorms and extremely dry skin.

    Parent

    OH (none / 0) (#53)
    by peacrevol on Mon Jan 22, 2007 at 11:12:43 AM EST
    And also, with our military over there, arent we just adding one more group to the fiasco? We should be at least trying to move to a more of a mediater role.

    Parent
    stratagery (none / 0) (#45)
    by Sailor on Sat Jan 20, 2007 at 03:49:42 PM EST
    Who are these "terrorists" you speak of? How are we going to kill them without killing civilians? How are we going to know them from the civilians?
    They don't know and they don't care. The 20%ers, AKA bush's base, just want to kill brown people and think if they kill enough, (collateral damage be damned, they're brown people too), we win!

    Sad, ain't it?

    Parent

    sailor (none / 0) (#49)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jan 20, 2007 at 09:22:22 PM EST
    We've nailed about 60 in the last week..

    We're gonna catch'em and bring'em to Gitmo for you to degend.

    Everybody needs to be somewhere.....

    Parent

    sigh (none / 0) (#50)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jan 20, 2007 at 09:23:16 PM EST
    and where is an F when you need it??

    DEFEND

    Parent

    ppj (none / 0) (#18)
    by jondee on Fri Jan 19, 2007 at 12:53:37 PM EST
    Bush dosnt and aside from the fact that we all know real men dont look at polls, you know this how?

    Jondee (none / 0) (#20)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Jan 19, 2007 at 01:18:34 PM EST
    Uh, I don't know how you know... I certianly don't... that real mean don't look at polls. As for "real" would that be as opposed to fictional men, cardboard cut outs???

    Inquiring minds want to know.

    Parent

    More self delusion (none / 0) (#21)
    by jondee on Fri Jan 19, 2007 at 01:27:42 PM EST
    "My bet is that the Demos will lose the Presidential election and maybe both congress"

    Yeah, all the signs are certainly there.

    Jim sees clearly (none / 0) (#24)
    by Edger on Fri Jan 19, 2007 at 03:16:05 PM EST
    what others only dream of. ;-)

    Parent
    Jondee (none / 0) (#28)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Jan 19, 2007 at 04:49:54 PM EST
    As you celebrate, remember how happy the Repubs were in Jan '05.....

    Parent
    The pollsters are a write off I suppose (none / 0) (#22)
    by jondee on Fri Jan 19, 2007 at 01:30:34 PM EST
    Tell us how you know "Bush dosnt". Inquiring minds want to know.

    Jim... (none / 0) (#25)
    by Che's Lounge on Fri Jan 19, 2007 at 04:39:32 PM EST
    The first thing that must happen is to kill enough of the terrorists, and especially their leaderships, to convince them to stop. And I use "terrorists" as a catch all word to include milita of all strikes, insurgents and assorted memebers of al-Qeada, Iranian freedome loving helpers, etc. ...

    Are you suggesting that we start killing tens of thousands more people because we made a mistake?

    Che (none / 0) (#27)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Jan 19, 2007 at 04:48:06 PM EST
    No, I am saying that we must kill enough of the terrorists and their leadership to win.

    You do understand the difference between the good guys and the bad guys, don't you?

    No? You don't? Okay. I'll buy that.

    Parent

    Most are insurgents (none / 0) (#30)
    by soccerdad on Fri Jan 19, 2007 at 06:15:43 PM EST
    who want us out, But you know that but just like the sound of your BS


    Parent
    The solution is obvious (none / 0) (#31)
    by soccerdad on Fri Jan 19, 2007 at 06:19:14 PM EST
    We invaded based on lies. End the occupation and impeach Bush.

    If you can impeach someone for lying about sex you should be able to impeach someone who lies us into war which then causes 300 US deaths and Many Iraqi deaths

    Wont happen however because the Dems are really for the war they just dont like the way its run.


    Cut off funding for congress (none / 0) (#34)
    by Ernesto Del Mundo on Sat Jan 20, 2007 at 07:51:40 AM EST
    Stop letting them take bribes from people who benefit from wars. That's the only way to end this mess.

    They're (none / 0) (#35)
    by aw on Sat Jan 20, 2007 at 08:59:07 AM EST
    not only taking bribes from them, they're a part of them.  The military-industrial complex that Ike feared is a reality--it is the government.

    Here's the story of how Lockeed's interests--as opposed those of the American citizenry--set the course of US policy after 9/11.

    Playboy

    Parent

    aw... Really?? (1.00 / 1) (#37)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jan 20, 2007 at 09:28:10 AM EST
    Playboy? You are actually quoting Playboy as a serious source??

    Oh well, we always did claim that we were only reading the articles....

    ;-)

    Parent

    In case you haven't noticed (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by aw on Sat Jan 20, 2007 at 09:44:41 AM EST
    I'm no longer taking your bait.  This is called "de-baiting."  Henceforth, to paraphrase Bill, there will be "No response forthcoming."  I may post material contradictory to your own, but I will not address you directly.

    Parent
    FYI, the author of that Playboy article is... (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by Edger on Sat Jan 20, 2007 at 09:58:04 AM EST
    Richard Cummings ... taught international law at the Haile Selassie I University and before that, was Attorney-Advisor with the Office of General Counsel of the Near East South Asia region of U.S.A.I.D, where he was responsible for the legal work pertaining to the aid program in Israel, Jordan, Pakistan and Afghanistan. He is the author The Pied Piper - Allard K. Lowenstein and the Liberal Dream, the comedy, Soccer Moms From Hell, and the forthcoming novel, The Immortalists. He holds a PhD in Social and Political Sciences from Cambridge University and is a member of the Association of Former Intelligence Officers.

    ...ZDNet

    Cummings also writes extensively for LewRockwell dot Com, as well as ZDnet, Playboy, and many other publications.

    Parent

    correction--- "ZNet" (none / 0) (#41)
    by Edger on Sat Jan 20, 2007 at 10:06:39 AM EST
    Edger (none / 0) (#43)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jan 20, 2007 at 01:15:21 PM EST
    Since I know you can't resist any hit article against the war and the Bush administration I understand your urgent desire to defend any negative comment...

    As I noted to aw, my comment was mostly a feeble attempt at humor that I just couldn't resist...

    But then again, maybe you didn't look at the pictures.   ;-)  ;-)

    Parent

    I always look at the (none / 0) (#44)
    by Edger on Sat Jan 20, 2007 at 03:27:58 PM EST
    pictures, Jim. I knew Bush was missing something.

    Parent
    I always got the idea ... (none / 0) (#46)
    by Sailor on Sat Jan 20, 2007 at 03:53:06 PM EST
    ... that in bushco the left hand never knew what the right hand was doing. Now I realize the left hand was just turning the pages;-)

    Parent
    edger (none / 0) (#47)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jan 20, 2007 at 09:18:08 PM EST
    As a ROF I find that my memory exceeds my expectations.

    Parent
    edger's friend (none / 0) (#48)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jan 20, 2007 at 09:20:09 PM EST
    And I must say that your friend also fails my expections.... and memories..

    ;-)

    Parent

    De-bait instead of debate? (none / 0) (#42)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jan 20, 2007 at 01:08:26 PM EST
    Well, if you can't debate, you can't debate.

    Perhaps you haven't noticed, the comment was a (I grant you.) a feeble attempt at humor.

    Parent