home

Weekend Open Thread

By Jeralyn, Section Blog Related
Posted on Fri Dec 08, 2006 at 11:35:08 PM EST
Tags: Telluride (all tags)
Share This: Digg! StumbleUpon del.icio.us reddit reddit


larger version here.

I'm headed back to Telluride today to prepare for a court hearing on Monday. The courthouse is the building with the clock in the picture.

I won't have time to ski, but if you've ever wondered what the slopes there look like, check out these pictures.

For those of you online this weekend, here's a space to chat.

The 2006 Weblog Awards

TalkLeft is nominated in the "Best of the Top 250 Blogs." If you'd like to vote for us, we'd appreciate it. Just click here.

You can vote once a day until December 15.

< The Media Marginalizes The American People | Rumsfeld Leaves 2,930 Behind in Iraq >

  • The Online Magazine with Liberal coverage of crime-related political and injustice news

  • Contribute To TalkLeft


    • Display: Sort:
    Weekend Open Thread | 109 comments (109 topical)

    Readers Must Login or Create an Account to Comment

    Surprise, surprise (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by aw on Sat Dec 09, 2006 at 09:48:57 AM EST
    In a funny coincidence, as the ISG report recommends privatizing Iraq's oil industry:

    November 27, 2006
    #2006-137
    The Carlyle Group Establishes Middle East Investment Operation
    Carlyle Group

    aw (1.00 / 0) (#22)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 09, 2006 at 10:35:54 AM EST
    Given that we are not a socialist country, what do you find strange about the Iraqi Surrender Group, aka ISG, recommending an industry be privatized?

    Parent
    Strange (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by kdog on Sat Dec 09, 2006 at 10:40:56 AM EST
    I think it is strange because that decision should be left to the Iraqi people...remember them?

    The oil belongs to the people that live on top of it...not the Carlysle Group, Exxon-Mobil, or a group of hand-picked Iraqi businessmen.

    Parent

    Kdog (1.00 / 0) (#32)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 09, 2006 at 11:47:22 AM EST
    Tt is a "recommendation."

    Do you see the difference??

    Parent

    Strong-arm (none / 0) (#36)
    by kdog on Sat Dec 09, 2006 at 11:56:40 AM EST
    A recommendation at the end of a gun...the recommendation of an occupier with an economic agenda.

    Let's see if the Iraqi people have the power to turn it down...it seems the majority are against it.

    Parent

    There is nothing (none / 0) (#24)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 09, 2006 at 10:56:16 AM EST
    strange about it, right? Right...

    Parent
    That (none / 0) (#33)
    by aw on Sat Dec 09, 2006 at 11:48:46 AM EST
    says it all, Edger

    Parent
    Aha! (none / 0) (#19)
    by kdog on Sat Dec 09, 2006 at 10:04:12 AM EST
    Maybe that's the mysterious victory our govt. refers to...the privitization of the oil.

    Money money money money....money!

    Parent

    Really (none / 0) (#20)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 09, 2006 at 10:08:49 AM EST
    What a surprise:
    August 31, 2005 CORONADO, Calif. -- President Bush answered growing antiwar protests yesterday with a fresh reason for US troops to continue fighting in Iraq: protection of the country's vast oil fields, which he said would otherwise fall under the control of terrorist extremists.

    One more thing he's failed at.

    Parent

    It may not be (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by Che's Lounge on Sat Dec 09, 2006 at 10:11:36 AM EST
    so easy this time around, aw.

    Link

    Link

    Link

    I dunno (none / 0) (#25)
    by aw on Sat Dec 09, 2006 at 10:58:35 AM EST
    I clicked through the links and there doesn't seem to be anything very recent there.  Also, the website for The General Union of Oil Employees (Basra) doesn't seem to exist anymore.  I wonder how they are doing now.

    I did find this at Global Policy Forum, which is only slightly more recent, Nov 2005.

    This report reveals how an oil policy with origins in the US State Department is on course to be adopted in Iraq, soon after the December elections, with no public debate and at enormous potential cost. The policy allocates the majority (1) of Iraq's oilfields - accounting for at least 64% of the country's oil reserves - for development by multinational oil companies.

    Iraqi public opinion is strongly opposed to handing control over oil development to foreign companies. But with the active involvement of the US and British governments a group of powerful Iraqi politicians and technocrats is pushing for a system of long term contracts with foreign oil companies which will be beyond the reach of Iraqi courts, public scrutiny or democratic control.
    ...
    Under the likely terms of the contracts, oil company rates of return from investing in Iraq would range from 42% to 162%, far in excess of usual industry minimum target of around 12% return on investment.
    ...
     The debate over oil "privatisation" in Iraq has often been misleading due to the technical nature of the term, which refers to legal ownership of oil reserves. This has allowed governments and companies to deny that "privatisation" is taking place. Meanwhile, important practical questions, of public versus private control over oil development and revenues, have not been addressed.

    The development model being promoted in Iraq, and supported by key figures in the Oil Ministry, is based on contracts known as production sharing agreements (PSAs), which have existed in the oil industry since the late 1960s. Oil experts agree that their purpose is largely political: technically they keep legal ownership of oil reserves in state hands (3), while practically delivering oil companies the same results as the concession agreements they replaced.
    ...
    PSAs represent a radical redesign of Iraq's oil industry, wrenching it from public into private hands. The strategic drivers for this are the US/UK push for "energy security" in a constrained market and the multinational oil companies' need to "book" new reserves to secure future growth.

    Despite their disadvantages to the Iraqi economy and democracy, they are being introduced in Iraq without public debate.

    It is up to the Iraqi people to decide the terms for the development of their oil resources. We hope that this report will help explain the likely consequences of decisions being made in secret on their behalf.

    I wonder how much say the Iraqi people (those who are left) will have in the end.

    Parent

    RE: I wonder... (none / 0) (#40)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 09, 2006 at 12:06:15 PM EST
    how much say the Iraqi people (those who are left) will have in the end.

    Probably very little, aw. The Iraqis will never see nearly 90% of any profit from Iraqi oil.

    Here is some more recent information from Greg Palast on October 26th, 2006 in a Guest Column By Antonia Juhasz*:

    Are U.S. Corporations Going to "Win" The Iraq War?

    As I also detail in The Bush Agenda, U.S. oil companies - previously all but shutout of Iraq's oil sector, are on the verge of winning Iraq's oil prize.

    On September 10, Iraq's Deputy Prime Minister repeated a pledge made earlier this year by Oil Minister al-Shahristani that Iraq would have a new national petroleum law by the end of 2006. The law will open Iraq's currently nationalized oil industry to private foreign oil companies on terms unprecedented in the Middle East or in any oil-rich nation. According to Iraqi Vice President Mahdi, the law will be "very promising to the American investors and to American enterprise, certainly to oil companies." The law mirrors proposals originally set out by the Bush administration prior to the March 2003 invasion.

    Meeting four times between December 2002 and April 2003, members of the U.S. State Department's Oil and Energy Working Group agreed that Iraq "should be opened to international oil companies as quickly as possible after the war" and that the best method for doing so was through Production Sharing Agreements (PSAs).

    None of the top oil producers in the Middle East use PSAs because they favor private companies at the expense of the exporting governments. In fact, PSAs are only used in respect to about 12 percent of world oil reserves. PSAs are the favorite of international oil companies and the worst-case scenario for oil-rich states.

    In August 2004, the U.S.-appointed interim Prime Minster of Iraq, Ayad Allawi (a former CIA operative), submitted guidelines for a new petroleum law recommending that the "Iraqi government disengage from running the oil sector" and that all undeveloped oil and gas fields in Iraq be turned over to private international oil companies using PSAs. Allawi's proposal is the basis of the current proposed oil law and could potentially give foreign companies control over approximately 87 percent of Iraq's oil.

    The Bush administration and U.S. oil companies have maintained constant pressure on Iraq to pass the new law. The administration appointed an advisor to the Iraqi government from Bearing Point Inc., a Virginia-based private consultancy firm, to support completion of the law. This past July, U.S. Energy Secretary Bodman announced in Baghdad that senior U.S. oil company executives told him they would not enter Iraq without passage of the new law.

    This month, Petroleum Economist Magazine reported that U.S. oil companies put passage of the oil law before security concerns as the deciding factor over their entry into Iraq. Iraq has the second largest oil reserves in the world, reserves that are cheap to exploit and worth literally trillions of dollars. U.S. oil companies want in, but on their own terms. They are, quite simply, trying to get the best deal possible out of a war-ravaged and occupied nation. They are also holding U.S. troops hostage. Let's face it, once they get their lucrative contracts, they will still demand protection to get to work. What better security force is there than 140,000 American troops?

    *Antonia Juhasz is a policy-analyst, author and activist living in San Francisco. She is a Visiting Scholar at the Washington, DC-based Institute for Policy Studies. Juhasz is an expert on all aspects of international trade and finance policy with a Masters Degree in Public Policy from Georgetown University, experience as a Legislative Assistant to two United States Members of Congress, and over ten years of work in the field. She is a passionate writer and speaker who conveys complex information in a manner that is both accessible and motivational to others.

    Antonia Juhasz is author of the new book, The Bush Agenda: Invading the World, One Economy at a Time

    -----
    As an aside: It's interesting that it's often the women who figure this stuff out long before the men ever get a clue. ;-)

    Parent

    Neocons of Freedom (4.00 / 0) (#92)
    by jondee on Sun Dec 10, 2006 at 11:36:11 AM EST
    Safire? You've gotta be effing kidding me (A.E Housman once said that). Apparently this is part of  Bush's deal: every year at least one neocon gets the Medal of Freedom. Last time it was Norm (Chickenhawk) Podhoretz. This will probobly stay in effect as long as theres still one person left alive in Iraq.

    Etc (4.00 / 0) (#93)
    by jondee on Sun Dec 10, 2006 at 12:12:35 PM EST
    The frontrunner for next year should be Buckley, but he's been mildly critical of the occupation (a punishable offense), so it'll probobly go post-humously to Jeanne Kirkpatrick or Rush Limbaugh.

    Sailor (1.00 / 0) (#7)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 09, 2006 at 08:42:31 AM EST
    You wrote:

    I'd be happy to provide them on the next open thread...

    Well, here is an open thread.

    It's early, Jim (none / 0) (#9)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 09, 2006 at 08:53:32 AM EST
    What the hell are you shouting for?

    Parent
    Waking sailor (1.00 / 0) (#26)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 09, 2006 at 11:16:31 AM EST
    I'm just trying to wake up Sailor. He said he wanted an open thread to provide us with some links to things I have commented, and here we have it.

    SAILOR!!!!! The sun is up!!! Get to linking!!!

    Clay lies still, but blood's a rover;
    Breath's a ware that will not keep.
    Up, lad; when the journey's over
    There'll be time enough for sleep."

    AE Housman



    Parent
    How (none / 0) (#27)
    by aw on Sat Dec 09, 2006 at 11:18:13 AM EST
    do you know the sun is up where he is?

    Parent
    I hope this helps (1.00 / 0) (#46)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 09, 2006 at 12:32:27 PM EST
    Do you know anything about poetry?

    Let me help. It is supposed to create a place, a feeling that says we should dare to explore, to not lie in our bed of old information.

    So the sun is always up to those whose minds are not closed and locked into a certain dogma.

    There now, I hope that helped.

    Parent

    Missed the point again, huh? (none / 0) (#41)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 09, 2006 at 12:09:12 PM EST
    As usual, no one expected you to get it.

    Parent
    Civil answer (1.00 / 0) (#47)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 09, 2006 at 12:34:11 PM EST
    No edger, I knew you were just being snarky, I just decided to give you an honest, civilized answer.

    Parent
    Sailor, where are you????? (1.00 / 0) (#54)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 09, 2006 at 12:49:58 PM EST
    sailor!!! Where are you??????

    Parent
    He probably (none / 0) (#74)
    by roger on Sat Dec 09, 2006 at 07:04:02 PM EST
    has a life today

    Parent
    Roger it was sailor's idea. (none / 0) (#101)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Dec 11, 2006 at 08:44:31 AM EST
    I'm just trying to help him.

    Parent
    ppj endorses torture (5.00 / 1) (#111)
    by Sailor on Mon Dec 11, 2006 at 12:56:14 PM EST
    Jeez, that poor fellow is shrill isn't he? Ya take a well deserved weekend off and he starts screaming like a 2 year old w/o banky!

    The offer wasn't made to you ppj, it was made to reasonable folks who have the ability to modify for thinking when presented with new facts, you are proud that you don't have that ability, e.g.

    Posted by JimakaPPJ
    October 13, 2006 11:44 AM
    Bah humbug. That's the story I heard and I'm sticking to it..
    IRT ppj's endorsement of torture by the gov't, ladies & gentlemen  I give you the (unintentially) comedic stylings of ppj:
    Re: ACLU Releases 1,000 Pentagon Documents on Guan (none / 0) (#4)
    by  jimakaPPJ on Mon Jun 19, 2006 at 05:56:14 PM EST

    [...]
    Sailor[...] I wonder why you are complaining about a little torture?  BTW - I don't give you the Halliburton point, and say that there was very little torture.

    Re: Torture is a Moral Issue (none / 0) (#18)
    by  jimakaPPJ on Mon Mar 20, 2006 at 07:16:18 AM EST

    we need to redefine what is torture.

    Responding to a post by Bill Arnett commenting on Jose Padilla's treatment As a veteran I am so ashamed of this treatment of an American citizen in this manner., ppj's reply?
    False claims (1.00 / 3) (#42)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Dec 04, 2006 at 12:54:13 PM EST
    As a veteran I condemn Bill's untowardly comments and attacks.
    Bill. You have no proof what so ever, why are you so anxious to always believe these claims?
    And later on the thread, ppj endorses the torture of Padilla when he quotes an online poll at AOL:

    Hope (1.00 / 2) (#26)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Dec 04, 2006 at 11:16:55 AM EST
    [...] Just signed on to AOL, which is an admittedly ISP favorite of the young... those people who supposedly are anti-war on terror...

    Guess what? 67% approve of his [Padilla's] treatmemt.

    There may be some hope for the younger generation after all.

    So ppj was endorsing treatment which included an American citizen being held indefinitely by the military, being held without access to a lawyer for 3 years and tortured to the point he is now mentally ill.
    Re: ACLU Releases 1,000 Pentagon Documents on Guan (none / 0) (#15)
    by  jimakaPPJ on Tue Jun 20, 2006 at 06:04:24 AM EST

    [...] A special Guantanamo investigator, Air Force Lt. Gen. Randall Schmidt, subsequently told Congress that al-Qahtani was also forced to wear a woman's bra, dance with a male guard, "perform dog tricks'' and was smeared with fake menstrual blood to lower his self-esteem - techniques the general described as "degrading and abusive'' but not inhumane.
     The above is not torture.

    ppj of course failed to also list the other 'treatments' approved by Lt. Gen. Randall Schmidt. The Department of Justice, The GenCons and The Convention Against Torture all disagree with ppj.
    So do I.

    Bush has said we follow the GenCons, the Supreme Court has mandated the GenCons, and the GenCons don't allow interrorgation, much less torture, of ANYONE! Especially note Artcile 75, 7b (b) Any such persons who do not benefit from more favourable treatment under the Conventions or this Protocol shall be accorded the treatment provided by this Article, whether or not the crimes of which they are accused constitute grave breaches of the Conventions or of this Protocol.

    A example of ppj's willingness to censor Americans' excersizing their right to free speech is right here on this thread. In reply to Edger hoping websites supporting Lt. Watada haven't been "Silenced? Neither website appealforredress dot org, or thankyoult dot org is responding this morning, and neither of them is responding to pings...", ppj responds:

    jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 09, 2006 at 11:42:01 AM EST
    I hope they are.
    If anyone wants further info, it's easy, just google ppj, torture site:talkleft.com.

    Reasonable inquiries will of course be responded to.  ppj, you can just talk to the hand.

    Parent

    Ta Ta DA (none / 0) (#113)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Dec 12, 2006 at 01:10:10 PM EST
    Thank you DA for your able assistant. Now, shall we get down to specifics?

    Remember the charge is that I endorse torture.

    DA and Sailor - Bah humbug. That's the story I heard and I'm sticking to it.. Same way you guys keep saying "Bush lied..." No middle ground left.

    Now that comes from a post regarding Ashcroft and the covering of the statue, and refers to my comment that I understood it was covered for painting.

    Then we have this.

    Just signed on to AOL, which is an admittedly ISP favorite of the young... those people who supposedly are anti-war on terror...
    Guess what? 67% approve of his [Padilla's] treatmemt.
    There may be some hope for the younger generation after all.

    I maintain that Padilla has not been tortured. If you are so dense to think that he has, fine. But don't claim that your poor judgement has anything to do with reality.

    A special Guantanamo investigator, Air Force Lt. Gen. Randall Schmidt, subsequently told Congress that al-Qahtani was also forced to wear a woman's bra, dance with a male guard, "perform dog tricks'' and was smeared with fake menstrual blood to lower his self-esteem - techniques the general described as "degrading and abusive'' but not inhumane.
    The above is not torture.

    See my response to the AOL poll.

    The issue is that what you regard as torture is not torture. Isolation is not. Panties on the head is not. Forced to wear a bra is not, nor the ones described following.

    As for the Lt who missed movement and the military people who want to demonstrate, I merely hope they are put in jail for oh, ten years or so instead of hanging.

    Guess I am getting soft in my old age.

    In meantime DA, Ta! Ta!

    You try hard but going yada yada yada proves nothing beyond your ability to go yada yada yada!


    Parent

    Guess I am getting soft in my old age. (none / 0) (#114)
    by aw on Tue Dec 12, 2006 at 01:54:18 PM EST
    If you say so.

    Parent
    Then you missed twice.... (none / 0) (#53)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 09, 2006 at 12:48:26 PM EST


    Parent
    keep you off the street (1.00 / 0) (#104)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Dec 11, 2006 at 09:10:29 AM EST
    Dark Avenger - Nice attack. Very snarky and I am sure very humorous....

    BTW - Have you tried late to establish a point and actually defend it?

    So keep on attacking. Maybe it will keep you off the streets and out of trouble.

    You missed... (none / 0) (#109)
    by Edger on Mon Dec 11, 2006 at 10:15:00 AM EST
    ...DA's point too? Jim it was so obvious it must have taken a piece of your ear when it when whizzing past.

    How could you miss it? No one else did.

    Parent

    DA gets trapped (1.00 / 0) (#105)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Dec 11, 2006 at 09:38:33 AM EST
    DA - Don't mind you linking but I do object you to trying to say I said something I didn't. That is dishonest, and you understand that.

    Here is what was said.

    Re: Indictments Returned in Oil For Food Case (none / 0) (#6)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Apr 15, 2005 at 07:23:25 AM EST
    Johnny - Call me an idoit, but at least I don't think we are capable of supporting a conspiracy as large as you posit.

    Now, when you use the link, you see that you mispelled idiot, and when you follow the corrected link, we find you calling someone an idiot.

     

    Re: DrudgeRock: Part II (none / 0) (#14)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Feb 17, 2005 at 06:20:22 AM EST
    The above post by PPJ (aka Dim) is a semi-forgery by some idiot

    Catch a clue. You accused me of calling people idiots. In the information you provide you prove that I called myself one, and that you called someone an idiot.

    BTW - Here is one in which I made a comment about my calling someone an idiot.

    During several visits to your country one of your country men kept referring to us as "Colonials." At first I just assumed that he was kidding with us. After awhile I decided he was just an idoit. Turned out later he saw it as a term of friendship. I say again. The use of "suicider" is no worse than "parenting," and I am against both. They obscure rather than clarify and are trendy rather than helpful.

    In my defense I note that I admitted my error.

    Have you ever done that?

    And thank you for being my secretary. Didn't have one before you got out and returned.

    DA trapped??? Heh. (none / 0) (#107)
    by Edger on Mon Dec 11, 2006 at 09:59:33 AM EST
    You're trying to make a funny, right?

    It's not working, Jim. DA isn't jumping through hoops trying to explain away his own comments.

    You are. It's retty sad to watch, man.

    Parent

    Dishonest (none / 0) (#108)
    by squeaky on Mon Dec 11, 2006 at 10:10:50 AM EST
    That is dishonest, and you understand that.
    The most dishonest commenter speaks. An expert liar....hmmmm....

    Truthiness is a word now. Invented expressly for ppj and his ilk.

    Parent

    Ta Ta (none / 0) (#112)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Dec 12, 2006 at 12:43:34 PM EST
    Uh, read the last sentence in my response..

    If you didn't catch on to my using your own words to mousetrap you twice....

    Your funny.

    TA TA

    Parent

    New Low (none / 0) (#1)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 09, 2006 at 02:02:11 AM EST
    Bush at 30%
    Nixon's looking good. :-) (none / 0) (#2)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 09, 2006 at 03:24:10 AM EST


    Parent
    thanks edger, (none / 0) (#3)
    by cpinva on Sat Dec 09, 2006 at 04:57:31 AM EST
    you just ruined 30 years worth of therapy! :)

    welcome :-) (none / 0) (#4)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 09, 2006 at 05:23:39 AM EST
    How do you think it makes me feel?

    Parent
    Bush got lucky yesterday... (none / 0) (#5)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 09, 2006 at 05:28:35 AM EST
    ...and did something that made sense. He gave B.B. King the Mrdal of Freedom.

    It probably wasn't his fault though, I'm sure someone else made up the list of recommendations.

    Wow... (none / 0) (#15)
    by kdog on Sat Dec 09, 2006 at 09:57:07 AM EST
    it's rare when someone deserving gets one of those....Lucille get one too?

    Parent
    Jeeze (none / 0) (#16)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 09, 2006 at 09:59:43 AM EST
    I hope so. She's been good to him all these years!

    Parent
    Here's (none / 0) (#17)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 09, 2006 at 10:01:21 AM EST
    the list.

    Parent
    This should open a few more eyes out there (none / 0) (#6)
    by aw on Sat Dec 09, 2006 at 08:05:58 AM EST
    Privatize the modernization of the Coast Guard.  Oy, the grownups are in charge, all right.

    the Coast Guard hired Lockheed Martin and Northrop Grumman, two of the nation's largest military contractors, to plan, supervise and deliver the new vessels and helicopters.

    Many retired Coast Guard officials, former company executives and government auditors fault that privatization model, saying it allowed the contractors at times to put their interests ahead of the Guard's.

    "This is the fleecing of America," said

    Even some of the smaller Deepwater projects raise questions about management. The radios placed in small, open boats were not waterproof and immediately shorted out, for example. Electronics equipment costing millions of dollars is still being installed in the new cutter, even though it will be ripped out because the Coast Guard does not want it. An order of eight small, inflatable boats cost an extra half-million dollars because the purchase passed through four layers of contractors.

    NY Times

    Well (none / 0) (#8)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 09, 2006 at 08:52:26 AM EST
    Bushco seems have been doing their best to wreck the militarys' capabilities. Time to move forward and gut the Coast Guards' too?

    Afte all the Bush, Crony & Associates Corporation Taxpayer Fleecing Division, DBA: BushBucks, is their primary profit center.

    Parent

    Active-duty military (none / 0) (#10)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 09, 2006 at 09:25:01 AM EST
    Active-duty military personnel will protest War in Iraq on Wednesday
    Wednesday, more than a hundred members of active duty military, reserve, and National Guard will speak out against the War in Iraq. Organizers say this will be the first time active servicemembers will voice a protest since the United States entered Iraq in March 2003.

    Senior Navy Seaman Jonathan Hutto will be among them. He wants to make it clear. He's not against war, "I want to state that we're not pacifists here." He's just against this war: The one placing U.S. troops in Iraq.

    Hutto says, "We think at this moment that the occupation is seriously flawed... We've lost many American lives - over 2,700, and 20,000 have been mangled and disfigured because of this war and we have actual priorities here at home that we need to look at - education, healthcare."

    Hutto is stationed in Norfolk. He says he is one of 118 military, men and women, who are part of the Active Duty Military Project-- a grassroots effort to get the U.S. to pull troops out now. Hutto says, "There are active duty service members, reserve, national guard who believe that the time has come in the occupation to bring the troops home."

    Wednesday, Hutto will be part of a national call to get military against the U.S. presence in Iraq to go to [www dot appealforredress dot org].

    There military members can sign just that -- an appeal to their U.S. representative to bring American troops home. The website explains military members have a right to protest the war through their congressmen based on the Military Whistleblower Protection Act.
    I wish... (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by kdog on Sat Dec 09, 2006 at 10:01:35 AM EST
    the media would stop calling it the war in Iraq, and refer to it as what what it is...an occupation, like this brave sailor.

     

    "We think at this moment that the occupation is seriously flawed

    It ain't a war no more...it's an occupation.  There is nothing to win in an occupation.

    Parent

    Not (1.00 / 1) (#31)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 09, 2006 at 11:45:18 AM EST
    kdog - This guy is so brave he won't fight.

    Parent
    I'll (none / 0) (#34)
    by aw on Sat Dec 09, 2006 at 11:50:22 AM EST
    bet he's not afraid of naked men running in the street.

    Parent
    Bravery? (none / 0) (#37)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 09, 2006 at 12:01:30 PM EST
    In order to be brave you need a noble cause otherwise it's called stupidity. Obviously this guy is not stupid.

    As kdog pointed out, ppj, it is an occupation, nothing valiant in that.

    Parent

    Selectibe vision (1.00 / 0) (#48)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 09, 2006 at 12:36:40 PM EST
    If the occupation is to allow a people to form a better goverment it is not valiant?

    Huh??

    So the occupation of Japan that demanded they, among other things, give rights to women, was wrong?

    As usual aw, you have very selective vision.

    Parent

    Why do you do this to yourself anyway? (none / 0) (#49)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 09, 2006 at 12:41:32 PM EST


    Parent
    Elementary School.... (none / 0) (#39)
    by kdog on Sat Dec 09, 2006 at 12:03:16 PM EST
    I learned in grade school that it takes courage to do the right thing.

    Don't you think this sailor's life would be a heckuva lot easier if he just did as he was told?  He's taking the road less traveled...and that my friend makes all the difference.

    Parent

    Kdog I think you also learned (none / 0) (#50)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 09, 2006 at 12:42:48 PM EST
    in school that you are supposed to do what you agreed to do.

    These people are not doing what they agreed to do.

    Worse than breaking the contract they made with the government, they are breaking the contract they made with their fellow military men and women.

    We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
    For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
    Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile,
    This day shall gentle his condition;
    And gentlemen in England now-a-bed
    Shall think themselves accurs'd they were not here,
    And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks
    That fought with us upon Saint Crispin's day.

    I have no respect for these people. I hope they are punished. And I hope someday they understand the meaning of what Shakesphere wrote.

    Parent

    Went right past you again. (none / 0) (#52)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 09, 2006 at 12:47:08 PM EST
    Don't you ever wonder what all those whistling sounds are?

    They're sort of like the toys I give to my cat for her to bat around. It's fun to watch.

    Parent

    Bush shat on the contract (none / 0) (#56)
    by Ernesto Del Mundo on Sat Dec 09, 2006 at 12:54:03 PM EST
    When he lied his way into this occupation.

    Parent
    This guy is so brave (none / 0) (#42)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 09, 2006 at 12:11:19 PM EST
    he won't fight for someone who lies to him daily and is wrecking his country as well as Iraq.

    Parent
    Arrest (1.00 / 0) (#28)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 09, 2006 at 11:35:22 AM EST
    edger - I have never heard of a "Senior" seaman. I hope the rest of the article is more accurate.

    Link

    I have also never heard of a "navy deck seaman."
    Link

    As for "whatever he is Hutto," the article got one thing right.

    Whether you agree with the War in Iraq or not, some military members point out that active duty members acting against the war can only hurt morale for those overseas.

    Cameron says, "They're supposed to be your brother in arms, and now they're over here saying you shouldn't be over there. Now you really-- it takes them out from being your brother in arms then."

    I would think that the UCMJ provides some guidance in this. I hope these protestors are arrested, prosecuted.

    Parent

    Brothers (none / 0) (#44)
    by kdog on Sat Dec 09, 2006 at 12:21:08 PM EST
    That's exactly the type of brother in arms I would want...one looking out for my best interests and watching my back.  I would think these soldier-initiated protests would be a boost for moral...the guy up to his neck in sand would see that somebody gives a rats arse about him.  I just don't see "stay the course" being a big morale booster.  Just keep on occupying and dodging IED's...how does that boost morale?

    Parent
    Huh?? (1.00 / 0) (#51)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 09, 2006 at 12:46:52 PM EST
    Watch their back?

    kdog, many believe the actions of these people are giving aid and comfort to the people the military are fighting.

    Parent

    Many people believe in Santa Claus (none / 0) (#58)
    by Ernesto Del Mundo on Sat Dec 09, 2006 at 01:02:59 PM EST
    And that George Bush and Dick Cheney are war heroes.

    Parent
    Many believe??? (1.00 / 0) (#69)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 09, 2006 at 04:29:39 PM EST
    But intelligent ones don't believe the garbage you toss out.

    Parent
    Still getting things backwards, huh? (none / 0) (#70)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 09, 2006 at 05:00:15 PM EST


    Parent
    Many? (none / 0) (#59)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 09, 2006 at 01:06:35 PM EST
    You're the last holdout, Jim. No one else here has bit that rotted bait for years. How's it taste?

    Parent
    Lt. Ehren Watada (none / 0) (#11)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 09, 2006 at 09:32:05 AM EST
    Lt. Ehren Watada braves government bullying
    Faced with a court-martial on charges of refusing to join his unit when it left for Iraq and contempt for the president, he spoke out at the Veterans for Peace national convention in Seattle last August. "To stop an illegal and unjust war," he said, "the soldiers can choose to stop fighting it."
    ...
    Since Lt. Watada declared, "I won't go," at least 118 soldiers have signed a rare military petition calling on Congress to promptly end the Iraq occupation (www dot appealforredress dot org). In a stirring display of reinforcement, about 50 members of Iraq Veterans Against the War filed in behind Watada as he rose to speak in Seattle.
    ...
    For information about how to support Lt. Watada, visit www dot thankyoult dot org.



    Parent
    Silenced? (none / 0) (#12)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 09, 2006 at 09:33:50 AM EST
    Neither website appealforredress dot org, or thankyoult dot org is responding this morning, and neither of them is responding to pings.....

    Parent
    Hope (1.00 / 1) (#29)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 09, 2006 at 11:42:01 AM EST
    I hope they are.

    Parent
    Yeah I know (none / 0) (#43)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 09, 2006 at 12:18:36 PM EST
    That thing the 1st Amendemnt is attached to is just a god*amn piece of paper anyway, right Jim?

    You re