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Powell Defies Bush

By TChris, Section Terror Detainees
Posted on Thu Sep 14, 2006 at 11:03:26 AM EST
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by TChris

Colin Powell is the latest Republican to stand up to President Bush's plan to reinterpret the Geneva Conventions to permit the abusive interrogation of detainees.

"The world is beginning to doubt the moral basis of our fight against terrorism," Powell said. "To redefine [a portion of the Geneva Convention] would add to those doubts."

Powell also agrees with the argument that Americans captured in foreign countries are at greater risk of abuse if the U.S. unilaterally rewrites the Geneva Conventions.

Update: Here's the letter.

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    Powell Defies Bush | 13 comments (13 topical)
    Re: Powell Defies Bush (none / 0) (#1)
    by Ernesto Del Mundo on Thu Sep 14, 2006 at 11:48:12 AM EST
    He's still trying to disinfect his reputation from earlier contamination with this regime. Good for him, but no one can forget his performance in front of the UN in the ramp up to the invasion. It's something he will have to live with forever.

    Re: Powell Defies Bush (none / 0) (#2)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Sep 14, 2006 at 12:52:12 PM EST
    There were no US troops captured in Iraq who were killed prior to the publication of the Abu Ghraib pictures in April, 2004. Since then... quite a few. You surrender the moral high ground at extreme peril; moral authority is a crucial weapon in the war. Sadly, there are no defense contractors to offer revolving door jobs and outright kickbacks to government officials for moral authority, unlike expensive weapons systems and sweetheart contracts. Nuff said. Powell always tried to be a voice of reason and modifying influence in this Administration. The Administration, in turn, used him to legitimize its extremism and outright lunacy. Powell probably deserves better, but he has indeed allowed himself to be tainted by the association, and his role in legitimizing the Iraq invasion (for the domestic audience of course; the UN audience didn't buy it for a second) will haunt him the rest of his days.

    Re: Powell Defies Bush (none / 0) (#3)
    by Pol on Thu Sep 14, 2006 at 12:52:12 PM EST
    At this point, Ernesto, who cares? Anything to help stop this regime.

    Re: Powell Defies Bush (none / 0) (#4)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Sep 14, 2006 at 12:52:12 PM EST
    it's an argument with no real world basis. consider that we don't immediately execute or saw off the heads of our opponents-yet they don't recipricate. it is so irrational as to defy explanation.

    Re: Powell Defies Bush (none / 0) (#5)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Sep 14, 2006 at 01:08:53 PM EST
    Screw the world's opinion of our moral basis...they are going to hate us regardless. 99.9% of terrorists in captivity are treated better than most civilian prisoners in European countries and get better healthcare than many people in our own country. All I care about is protecting American lives. We're the only ones following the Geneva Convetions! We're not fighting against foreign countries! Otherwise this wouldn't be an issue because they would unquestionably be covered by the Geneva Convetions..like the first Gulf war..there were no torture charges against the allies,yet our POWs were roughed up by Saddam. this is different! The other side isn't a signing party to the Geneva conventions because they aren't a part of any state, just terrorists, who shouldn't be covered because there will be no reciprocity on their part. Have any American soldiers captured been returned alive? No! they come back with their throats cut and body parts missing. Where is the outrage on the left? None...oh actually it is our fault because we made some prisoners get naked and have dogs bark at them, I've been hazed worse than that, gimmie a break. Now the terrorists are the victims? You talk about the constitution a lot, what do you honestly think our founding fathers would do? Do you really think they intended to protect the enemies of the U.S. when they wrote the constitution?

    Re: Powell Defies Bush (none / 0) (#7)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Sep 14, 2006 at 05:00:04 PM EST
    Talking Dog, very well said. My compliments to the thinker. Powell's weighing in helps the anti-torture chances. Both pro-torture and anti-torture legislation flying around right now in the senate and house. Who would have thought americans would even be contemplating this obscenity.

    Re: Powell Defies Bush (none / 0) (#8)
    by desertswine on Thu Sep 14, 2006 at 05:00:04 PM EST
    So what's the deal with the Powell's and cover-ups?
    Investigated For Covering Up Study September 5, 2006 FCC Chairman Michael Powell reportedly buried evidence that showed media consolidation is harmful to local news reporting.
    Powell suppressed a 2004 study to protect his friends in the corporate media lobby. It revealed that locally owned stations produced more local news than those owned by media giants -- such as ABC/Disney, Fox Television, Viacom and Sinclair Broadcast Group.


    Re: Powell Defies Bush (none / 0) (#9)
    by john horse on Thu Sep 14, 2006 at 06:50:03 PM EST
    Reality Check
    We're not fighting against foreign countries! Otherwise this wouldn't be an issue because they would unquestionably be covered by the Geneva Convetions..
    Let me provide a rebuttal to this from former Vietnam POW Pete Peterson. This is part of a letter to the editor that he wrote after the Abu Ghraib story broke.
    As a former POW in Vietnam, I know what life in a foreign prison is like. To a large degree, I credit the Geneva Conventions for my survival. While the Vietnamese rarely abided by the rules, the international pressure on them to do so forced them to walk a line that ensured they did not perpetrate the sort of shocking abuses at Abu Ghraib.
    Your statement that foreign countries will "unquestionably" abide by the Geneva Conventions is naive in the extreme and is a point of view that will put future American soldiers at risk. Again, let me quote Pete Peterson
    The Vietnamese called me a "criminal," not a POW. They argued that America was fighting an illegal war in Vietnam - therefore, the Geneva Conventions did not apply. I am appalled to find my own government using that hollow argument 35 years later.
    Just think about the type of treatment American POWs would have received in Vietnam had there not been international pressure that "forced them to walk the line". What type of pressure could we have put on Vietnam or some other future country if we ourselves don't abide by the Geneva Conventions or abide by it only at our convenience?

    Re: Powell Defies Bush (none / 0) (#6)
    by bernarda on Thu Sep 14, 2006 at 07:12:42 PM EST
    What? Powell is trying to re-create his virginity? This is the guy who blithely tried to cover up the My Lai massacre. "After that cursory investigation, Powell drafted a response on Dec. 13, 1968. He admitted to no pattern of wrongdoing. Powell claimed that U.S. soldiers in Vietnam were taught to treat Vietnamese courteously and respectfully. The Americal troops also had gone through an hour-long course on how to treat prisoners of war under the Geneva Conventions, Powell noted. "There may be isolated cases of mistreatment of civilians and POWs," Powell wrote in 1968. But "this by no means reflects the general attitude throughout the Division." Indeed, Powell's memo faulted Glen for not complaining earlier and for failing to be more specific in his letter. Powell reported back exactly what his superiors wanted to hear. "In direct refutation of this [Glen's] portrayal," Powell concluded, "is the fact that relations between Americal soldiers and the Vietnamese people are excellent." Powell's findings, of course, were false. But it would take another Americal hero, an infantryman named Ron Ridenhour, to piece together the truth about the atrocity at My Lai. After returning to the United States, Ridenhour interviewed Americal comrades who had participated in the massacre." [link deleted not in html format]

    Re: Powell Defies Bush (none / 0) (#11)
    by Aaron on Fri Sep 15, 2006 at 06:53:35 AM EST
    It's too bad that Colin Powell and Condoleezza Rice didn't have the guts to stand up for what was right when it counted. Neither of them have shown genuine leadership in their roles as Secretary of State. Perhaps for the first time in our history, the position of Secretary of State is nothing but a token in today's government. The Bush administration effectively neutered/spayed both Powell and Rice relegating them to the minor positions well below the status of their titles. Maybe I'm just biased, but it seems that Rice and Powell are the ideal black conservatives, from that old Southern perspective, little more than children in the eyes of those who tell them what to do, and when to do it. And they did what they were told, almost without question. Yes, the perfect black folks in the eyes of some. In a sense, more than 200 years after slavery both of these Black people, who ostensibly at least have held more power than any other Black people in US or world history, find themselves in a very similar positions, positions which their ancestors once found themselves. Condoleezza Rice often touts her slave heritage, I wonder what those same slaves would say, if they saw her and Powell shuffling around the White House, head down, eyes cast to the ground, saying yes sir to Massa Bush and his overseers. I imagine once they saw past the expensive clothes and the comfortable lifestyles and all the other accoutrements of status and power, I imagine they'd be a bit disappointed.

    Re: Powell Defies Bush (none / 0) (#12)
    by Sailor on Fri Sep 15, 2006 at 07:59:36 AM EST
    Shorter powell: 'What, My Lai?'

    Re: Powell Defies Bush (none / 0) (#10)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Sep 15, 2006 at 06:16:00 PM EST
    Read it again, I said we would unquestionably follow the Geneva Convetions were we fighting an acutal state. These teorrorists are explicitly excluded from protection under the Geneva convetions. While international pressure worked in vietnam it does nothing in the way of persuading terrorists. The question isn't whether torture is acceptable, the question is what is torture? And that is what Bush is trying to define...he's not trying to ammend article 3, he is trying to interpret it so that it can't be misinterpreted in the future at the peril of the interogators. Not to mention the fact that our interrogation techniques have foiled at least 8 plots and led to the capture of numerous high value targets. What would you tell the would be victims of those foiled attacks? Sorry, we could've gotten the intel to stop it, but we didn't want to humliate the teorrist. Come on! The president's job isn't to answer to the international community, it is to protect the American people! There is no equivalence between making someone stand up for a few days, making them cold and blaring rock music and cutting off heads! We are the good guys!

    Re: Powell Defies Bush (none / 0) (#13)
    by john horse on Fri Sep 15, 2006 at 06:16:00 PM EST
    What is especially tragic about Colin Powell was that in supporting Bush's invasion of Iraq he had to reject some of his own deeply held beliefs. Does anyone remember the Powell Doctrine? Based on his experience in Vietnam, it established the necessary preconditions for sending in American troops. Bush violated every one of them in his invasion of Iraq and instead of doing everything he could to oppose the invasion Powell was one of Iraq's major cheerleaders. Powell knew that Bush had lied about the yellowcake in his State of the Union speech which is why Powell didn't use it in his UN presentation one week later, but he kept his mouth shut about it until well after the invasion. Having said all of this, I hope Powell continues to oppose the policies that he once promoted. It is never too late to save your soul.

    Powell Defies Bush | 13 comments (13 topical)