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Feingold on 'Islamic Fascists'

By TChris, Section War on Terror
Posted on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 09:25:16 AM EST
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by TChris

This TalkLeft post criticized President Bush (and the media) for promoting the nonsensical phrase "Islamic fascist." Senator Feingold yesterday echoed that criticism.

"We must avoid using misleading and offensive terms that link Islam with those who subvert this great religion or who distort its teachings to justify terrorist activities," Feingold said Tuesday in a speech to the Arab American Institute on Capitol Hill. ...

"Fascist ideology doesn't have anything to do with the way global terrorist networks think or operate and it doesn't have anything to do with the overwhelming majority of Muslims around the world who practice the peaceful teachings of Islam," Feingold said.

Predictably, the spokeswoman for the Republican National Committee dismissed Feingold's call for the president to stop slandering a religion, accusing Feingold of "overreaching political correctness."

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    Feingold on 'Islamic Fascists' | 34 comments (34 topical)
    Re: Feingold on 'Islamic Fascists' (none / 0) (#1)
    by soccerdad on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 10:21:56 AM EST
    Doesn't Feingold understand the necessity of dehumanizing those you want to kill en masse. Off to the re-education camps after november for him. I'm sure Bush et al are perfectly ok with the sentiments of this teacher:
    Carol Joan McVey, 49, was charged with resisting arrest, trespassing, disorderly conduct and disturbing the peace. Police said McVey became upset when she heard some students at Gaithersburg High School, who were being assisted by another teacher, practicing a speech and using some Arabic words. The Washington Post said she reacted after overhearing the group utter an Islamic greeting of peace. Charging documents allege McVey shouted, "Islam doesn't mean peace, it means killing everyone for peace" and "Because of you, our families died in New York!"
    link She'll probably end up wit a job in Dept of Education. Note how the racism is becoming more overt and more common. The plan is working.

    Re: Feingold on 'Islamic Fascists' (none / 0) (#2)
    by roy on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 10:55:39 AM EST
    1: "Fascist" got its historical meaning muddled a long time ago. Now it often simply means authoritarian. As sort of a language Nazi, I find that regretable, but we can't rewind English just to have an excuse to attack Bush. 2: "Islamic fascists" specifically refers to a subset of Muslims, not all of them. It's sort of like "Christian fundamentalists" or, the less mainstream but more relevant example, "Christofascists". 3: I can't find his full speech online, but from the excerpts it appears that Feingold doesn't suggest any alternative term. Unless we're just not supposed to talk about the fact that a lot of bad guys twist Islam to manipulate others and have authoritarian ambitions, we need a handy phrase. Feingold apparently missed an opportunity to help with that. 4: That said, Bush is conflating our various enemies. Not all are Islamic, and not all who are Islamic are particularly driven by religion. Not all have authoritarian ambitions. And not all Islamic fascists are our enemies -- consider Saudi Arabia. This is not an issue of word choice, it's an issue of accuracy.

    Re: Feingold on 'Islamic Fascists' (none / 0) (#3)
    by Sailor on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 10:59:43 AM EST
    President Bush said yesterday that he senses a "Third Awakening" of religious devotion in the United States that has coincided with the nation's struggle with international terrorists, a war that he depicted as "a confrontation between good and evil."
    Bush told a group of conservative journalists that he notices more open expressions of faith among people he meets during his travels, and he suggested that might signal a broader revival similar to other religious movements in history.
    Re: Feingold on 'Islamic Fascists' (none / 0) (#4)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 11:30:39 AM EST
    "We must avoid using misleading and offensive terms that link Islam with those who subvert this great religion Sorry Russ, but Islam (like it or not) is linked to these animals.... and it's at their own wish. This is amazing...not only can't we fight them like we should (thanks to the left) but we can't even call them what they are???? BTW... the term Islamofascist is not misleading at all...it's spot on!! and it doesn't have anything to do with the overwhelming majority of Muslims around the world And NOBODY (including the hated GW)...ever said it did! Is there something in the water you all drink that effects your hearing/understanding of what other people say? Maybe if the rest of the (peace loving) Islamic people would actually join us in the fight against these people "who subvert this great religion", all this would end?? (that includes the left) Aye Russ?

    Re: Feingold on 'Islamic Fascists' (none / 0) (#5)
    by dutchfox on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 12:25:44 PM EST
    BB, stop being an ignorant American. Check out Speaking of Faith: Muslim Voices Since 9/11.
    Dramatic headlines convey a predominantly violent picture of global Islam. But, during the past five years, Muslim guests on SOF have conveyed a thoughtful, questing, diverse, and compelling faith. Step back with us and hear these voices from the traditional and evolving center of Islam. And, Krista speaks with Seyyed Hossein Nasr, an esteemed Muslim scholar who brings a broad religious and historical perspective to hard questions about Islam and the West that have lingered uncomfortably in American life since 9/11.
    Re: Feingold on 'Islamic Fascists' (none / 0) (#6)
    by soccerdad on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 12:33:46 PM EST
    Maybe if the rest of the (peace loving) Islamic people would actually join us in the fight against these people "who subvert this great religion", all this would end?? (that includes the left)
    Why should they when you invade their countries, kill their relatives and call them islamofascists? get a clue

    Re: Feingold on 'Islamic Fascists' (none / 0) (#7)
    by Sailor on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 01:26:14 PM EST
    Sorry Russ, but Islam (like it or not) is linked to these animals.... and it's at their own wish.
    While bb contradicted himself in one sentence, I'd still like to see links for his delusions.

    Re: Feingold on 'Islamic Fascists' (none / 0) (#9)
    by demohypocrates on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 02:33:02 PM EST
    In Iran, you can be hanged for being gay. In Somalia, the Islamists just closed down "un-Islamic" radio for playing love songs. In Pakistan, Musharraf's given up on reforming the country's rape laws to make convictions possible with fewer than four witnesses. And in Saudi Arabia, they've outlawed the sale of puppies and kittens. Because of "western influence." soccer, maybe you could explain Muslim violence against Imperialist muslim invading countries such as the Philipines, Thailand, Chechnya et al.

    Re: Feingold on 'Islamic Fascists' (none / 0) (#11)
    by Repack Rider on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 06:15:54 PM EST
    In Iran, you can be hanged for being gay.
    Here they beat the crap out of you and leave you in a barbed wire fence to die.
    In Somalia, the Islamists just closed down "un-Islamic" radio for playing love songs.
    By the Dixie Chicks.
    In Pakistan, Musharraf's given up on reforming the country's rape laws to make convictions possible with fewer than four witnesses.
    I've given up on enforcing the Fourth Amendment, even when the perps confess on the White House website.
    And in Saudi Arabia, they've outlawed the sale of puppies and kittens.
    The BASTARDS! Why do they hate cuteness?

    Re: Feingold on 'Islamic Fascists' (none / 0) (#12)
    by Sailor on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 07:12:42 PM EST
    BTW demohypocrit, Saudia Arabia and Pakistan are hailed by king george as our allies in the WOT.

    Re: Feingold on 'Islamic Fascists' (none / 0) (#13)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 09:25:05 PM EST
    In Iran, you can be hanged for being gay. Here they beat the crap out of you and leave you in a barbed wire fence to die. Repack Rider, please give a link to where there is a current US penal code that prescribes the death penalty for male homosexuality. As far as I can recall the actions that you have described would be a felony offense. Oh, and please note Sexual offence laws Iran I notice that you have criticised the US which has laws agains the killing of gays (well, people in general), but have not criticised the Iranian death penalty LAW which this site (deservedly so) would disapprove of. And in Saudi Arabia, they've outlawed the sale of puppies and kittens. The BASTARDS! Why do they hate cuteness? Because cuteness is a reminder of the west... The decree, which applies to the Red Sea port city of Jeddah and holy city of Mecca, bans the sale of cats and dogs because "some youths have been buying them and parading them in public" Source I would be interested in your thoughts on the Muttawa (as mentioned in the article) which are the STATE-SPONSERED religous police.

    Re: Feingold on 'Islamic Fascists' (none / 0) (#10)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 10:04:34 PM EST
    Maybe if the rest of the (peace loving) Islamic people would actually join us in the fight against these people "who subvert this great religion", all this would end?? (that includes the left)
    Uh. Why would peace loving people join a fight? Fighting is the opposite of peace...

    Re: Feingold on 'Islamic Fascists' (none / 0) (#8)
    by phat on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 10:56:44 PM EST
    "Language Nazi" Coming from someone who is insisting on some form of accuracy... That's just funny. phat

    Re: Feingold on 'Islamic Fascists' (none / 0) (#14)
    by Repack Rider on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 11:09:56 PM EST
    Here they beat the crap out of you and leave you in a barbed wire fence to die.
    Repack Rider, please give a link to where there is a current US penal code that prescribes the death penalty for male homosexuality. As far as I can recall the actions that you have described would be a felony offense.
    I wasn't aware that lynching gays was legal, only that it happens despite the penalties against it. However, homosexual acts are STILL felony offenses in 12 states and misdemeanors in 9. Your thoughts on that?
    Oh, and please note Sexual offence laws Iran
    Any different from the laws in our allies, such as Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Uzbekistan, or Pakistan? How about the ritual mutiliation of baby boys' penises in Israel?
    I would be interested in your thoughts on the Muttawa (as mentioned in the article) which are the STATE-SPONSERED religous police.
    I think that there are plenty of Christian Americans who want something like that established here. That number would certainly include the home-grown Christian terrorists who bomb abortion clinic and stalk doctors and Fred Phelps, who says that God hates fags. (I don't know enough about Christian theology to know why that is.) But I'm interested in your "solution" to these problems. These allies of ours seem to have a lot of despicable practices, so what do you propose we do to them to stop them? The Taliban in Afghanistan seem to be stronger than ever after we destroyed them forever a few years ago, and I don't think Saudi Arabia would take kindly to an invasion. We are not in a position to force the Saudis to like puppies, but I'm interested in hearing your thoughts on how we should try.

    Re: Feingold on 'Islamic Fascists' (none / 0) (#16)
    by soccerdad on Thu Sep 14, 2006 at 06:11:55 AM EST
    It is interesting that people like demo continue to search for excuses for their blatent racism yet at the same time back a right wing party that has the backing of the fundamentalists churchs that want to make America more like the countries Demo claims to despise. Demohypocrisy- heal thy self.

    Re: Feingold on 'Islamic Fascists' (none / 0) (#15)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Sep 14, 2006 at 06:15:24 AM EST
    Soccerdad According to my math, Sep 11, 2001 comes before March 2003, which means BB could not have killed there kin or invaded there land or called them that ever so dreaded "Islamic fascist" word, which we all know is good grounds for a slow beheading. Get a clue and drop the AL Gore math class.

    Re: Feingold on 'Islamic Fascists' (none / 0) (#17)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Sep 14, 2006 at 07:38:50 AM EST
    Sailor... While bb contradicted himself in one sentence, I'd still like to see links for his delusions. Please point out the so called contradiction and save the snide remarks... So the FACT that the jahadists admit to being followers of Islam...and want to force that religion on all us infidels makes me delusional? I think you need to look in the mirror Sailor. Sinned... Uh. Why would peace loving people join a fight? Fighting is the opposite of peace... Fight is a relative term. What I mean is, if they are truly "peace loving" all they'd have to do is stop turning their heads on the so called "few" radicals that are giving their religion a bad name (stop financing them, giving them safe heaven...etc) and all this would stop. But alas...that isn't happening is it? And it's not because we invaded their countries...blah..blah... as SD claims above. It's because they all want this to happen but aren't brave enough to say so. Their silence is deafening! SD.... right wing party that has the backing of the fundamentalists churchs that want to make America more like the countries Demo claims to despise Just to clue you in... America has been this way. It's the left wing radicals that want the change. A few examples of what they (you) have accomplished so far: Can't wear anything that supports America (t-shirts with flags) in schools anymore. Can't recite the Pledge because it uses that awful 'God' word. Can't pray in school at all in fact. Can't put religious displays (IE- Christmas) in public places. Can't have the 10 Commandmets in public places. Want to take any reference to God off all the money.... Want everything to be 'politically' correct (can't call it a Christmas tree anymore...it's now a holiday tree)etc...etc. Want me to go on??? It's you and your kind that are trying to change things...all we want is to be left alone.

    Re: Feingold on 'Islamic Fascists' (none / 0) (#18)
    by soccerdad on Thu Sep 14, 2006 at 07:50:32 AM EST
    BB you are so full of crap its unbelievable. No you dont want to be left alone.
    Can't wear anything that supports America (t-shirts with flags) in schools anymore.
    patently false
    Can't recite the Pledge because it uses that awful 'God' word.
    no policy as far as I know
    Can't pray in school at all in fact.
    You can pray by yourself or silently. There is no place for organized prayer in school, since it inherently discriminates against others who dont support that religion
    Can't put religious displays (IE- Christmas) in public places.
    Public here, means publically owned such as town halls
    Can't have the 10 Commandmets in public places.
    same comment - besides violating church and state its discriminatory against other religions.
    Want to take any reference to God off all the money....
    only wackos want this and is not a standard request
    Want everything to be 'politically' correct (can't call it a Christmas tree anymore...it's now a holiday tree)etc...etc.
    Not everyone believes in Christmas, business should have the freedom to do what they want, but understand that not everyone believes.

    Re: Feingold on 'Islamic Fascists' (none / 0) (#19)
    by demohypocrates on Thu Sep 14, 2006 at 08:02:44 AM EST
    soccersimp, Racist. Wow. Tailgunner Joe's Debating Techniques 101.

    Re: Feingold on 'Islamic Fascists' (none / 0) (#20)
    by Repack Rider on Thu Sep 14, 2006 at 08:04:11 AM EST
    Can't wear anything that supports America (t-shirts with flags) in schools anymore.
    False. Cite please. I remember back in the '60s it was the conservatives who objected to peple sewing a flag on the seat of their Levis.
    Can't recite the Pledge because it uses that awful 'God' word.
    Aside from the fact that the Pledge is a ridiculous exercise, "under God" is a violation of the First Amendment. I don't care about the rest of the ridiculous exercise.
    Can't pray in school at all in fact.
    Supreme Court says you have a First Amendment right to pray any damn place you wish, but that you can't be led in prayer by a teacher or impose it on others. Wrong.
    Can't put religious displays (IE- Christmas) in public places.
    Certainly not on public property at taxpayers' expense. First Amendment. Read it.
    Can't have the 10 Commandmets in public places.
    See above.
    Want to take any reference to God off all the money....
    Probably won't happen, but why is such a blatant disregard of the First Amendment institutionalized?
    Want everything to be 'politically' correct (can't call it a Christmas tree anymore...it's now a holiday tree)etc...etc
    Only someone who never leaves the house and listens to Rush could say that, since any observation of the real world would prove it false.

    Re: Feingold on 'Islamic Fascists' (none / 0) (#21)
    by soccerdad on Thu Sep 14, 2006 at 08:16:49 AM EST
    demo - you are searching for any action/policy to condemn an entire religion/people. If it is not racism what would you like to call it. Would you like everyone to judge the US by the actions of Fred Phelps?

    Re: Feingold on 'Islamic Fascists' (none / 0) (#22)
    by Sailor on Thu Sep 14, 2006 at 09:08:23 AM EST
    BB, where are the links?

    Re: Feingold on 'Islamic Fascists' (none / 0) (#23)
    by demohypocrates on Thu Sep 14, 2006 at 09:11:00 AM EST
    The use of Islamofascist is NOT an attempt to smear an entire religion. The intention is to do the exact opposite. It is to distinguish the good, most Muslims, from the bad, Muslims who cannot coexist without any external cultural influences. Unfortunately there are millions of Muslims who fall into the latter category. Why do you apologize for those millions who get on their knees 5 times a day and pray for your death?

    Re: Feingold on 'Islamic Fascists' (none / 0) (#24)
    by demohypocrates on Thu Sep 14, 2006 at 09:20:44 AM EST
    pardon - without = with in my previous post.

    Re: Feingold on 'Islamic Fascists' (none / 0) (#25)
    by soccerdad on Thu Sep 14, 2006 at 09:30:14 AM EST
    demo I cant keep up with your moving the goal posts all over the freakin place.
    Why do you apologize for those millions who get on their knees 5 times a day and pray for your death?
    I dont. But thanks for the strawman since thats all you got.

    Re: Feingold on 'Islamic Fascists' (none / 0) (#26)
    by soccerdad on Thu Sep 14, 2006 at 09:31:53 AM EST
    BTW Bush's policies are likely to double the number that hate us.

    Re: Feingold on 'Islamic Fascists' (none / 0) (#27)
    by demohypocrates on Thu Sep 14, 2006 at 09:54:07 AM EST
    soccer, It is interesting who you reserve your vitriole for. I have seen the term 'Christofacist' thrown around quite often in the comments on this blog. How many of those who did so have you labeled 'racist'? Dont accuse others of hypocrisy when you cant keep your own house clean.

    Re: Feingold on 'Islamic Fascists' (none / 0) (#28)
    by soccerdad on Thu Sep 14, 2006 at 10:12:31 AM EST
    Dont accuse others of hypocrisy when you cant keep your own house clean.
    instead of your tiresome strawmen why dont you show me where i have been hypocritical by what I have said. again you move the goalposts by now only concentrating on the "islamofascist" comments and ignoring the rest

    Re: Feingold on 'Islamic Fascists' (none / 0) (#29)
    by Sailor on Thu Sep 14, 2006 at 10:48:08 AM EST
    Unfortunately there are millions of Muslims who fall into the latter category.
    I call BS, provide links to millions of 'bad' muslims.
    Why do you apologize for those millions who get on their knees 5 times a day and pray for your death?
    Here's your cookie.
    Can't put religious displays (IE- Christmas) in public places. [...] Can't have the 10 Commandmets in public places.
    Can't tell the difference between public and government owned. And which version of the ten commandments?
    Can't wear anything that supports America (t-shirts with flags) in schools anymore. Can't recite the Pledge because it uses that awful 'God' word. Can't pray in school at all in fact.
    provide links, I call BS, all those statements are untrue. As has been stated many times, as long as there are math tests there will be prayer in schools.

    Re: Feingold on 'Islamic Fascists' (none / 0) (#30)
    by demohypocrates on Thu Sep 14, 2006 at 11:49:04 AM EST
    Question repeated: I have seen the term 'Christofacist' thrown around quite often in the comments on this blog. How many of those who did so have you labeled 'racist'? Your answer is my answer. You are not hypocritical for what you have said but what you have failed to say.
    I call BS, provide links to millions of 'bad' muslims.
    Percentages of Muslims that support suicide bombings (often/sometimes)- Pakistan 14%, Turkey - 17%, Egypt - 28%, Indonesia - 10%, Nigeria - 46%, Jordan - 29%, France and Spain - 16%, England - 15%. I'll leave the math to you. I am sorry, I should have said tens, if not hundreds of millions.

    Re: Feingold on 'Islamic Fascists' (none / 0) (#31)
    by Sailor on Thu Sep 14, 2006 at 12:39:05 PM EST
    demo, 'support for' and 'carry out' are 2 different subjects, and despite what the headline said about suicide bombing the actual question was did not refer to it:'violence against civilian targets in order to defend Islam can be justified' Sometimes Rarely Never Now, what would happen if you asked that same question of jews or christians? To defend your faith would you be willing to target civilians? I'd guess about the same numbers would come up; how many discussions have you seen on this site where the wrongwinger argued that killing civilians was OK as long as you suspected a militant was in there somewhere.

    Re: Feingold on 'Islamic Fascists' (none / 0) (#32)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Sep 14, 2006 at 12:52:12 PM EST
    I have seen the term 'Christofacist' thrown around quite often in the comments on this blog. How many of those who did so have you labeled 'racist'?
    I dont comment for a number of reasons, sometimes I dont visit the blog. Show me a quote and I will comment. You are still tyring to divert by ignoring much of the discussion. You still are looking for reasons to justify your hatred of Muslims in order to justify the actions of this administration. For people who do not have access to modern technology, supporting the idea of suicide bombers as a way to inflict harm on your agressors is appropiate. It is also not the same thing as approving suicide bombering of innocents. BTW where has your condemnation been of the use of cluster munitions by the US in Iraq and Israel in Lebanon. A difference in technology available to the group does not of itself change the morality of the ultimate action soccerdad

    Re: Feingold on 'Islamic Fascists' (none / 0) (#33)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Sep 15, 2006 at 02:58:23 PM EST
    SD... Bush's policies are likely to double the number that hate us. Did it ever occure to you (or your Al Quida buddies) that as they kill more & more Americans, our numbers here (excluding you of course) are likely to double also? Sailor... provide links, I call BS, all those statements are untrue. If you watched/read anything other than the liberal BS you do... or open your eyes...you might actually see. I have a life and don;t have time to link to everything I say... or to put it another way that you might be able to understand...I actually think and say things for myself, unlike you who do nothing but repeat (and link to) lefty talking points!

    Re: Feingold on 'Islamic Fascists' (none / 0) (#34)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Sep 15, 2006 at 03:26:38 PM EST
    BB: Did it ever occure to you (or your Al Quida buddies) that as they kill more & more Americans, our numbers here (excluding you of course) are likely to double also? You seem quite happy at the prospect of doubling, and then of course re-doubling, the numbers of people who hate, BB. Good plan... Very impressive foreign policy goal. Is that what you mean when you say "I actually think and say things for myself"? You know BB, I wasn't kidding when I said the other day that you must be a shill for the Democratic Party. Everything you post here illustrates the intellectual capacity of bush cheerleaders and the reason for the collapsed support the gop enjoys. Keep it up. You're doing a such a wonderful job that no one need criticize the gop to get rid of them. Maybe we can all relax now and just watch you guys self-destruct. Good boy. You're making dubya so proud. ---edger

    Feingold on 'Islamic Fascists' | 34 comments (34 topical)