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Terrorist or Victim of Bush's Terror War

By Jeralyn, Section War on Terror
Posted on Sun Sep 10, 2006 at 11:20:05 PM EST
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Meet Majid Khan, one of the 14 alleged terrorists held by the CIA in overseas secret prisons and recently transferred to Guantanamo.

Majid and his family came to the Baltimore area in 1996. He went to high school in Owings Mills, Md. where he was considered a serious student. From his English teacher:

This week's allegations stunned Sanford, who said the young man she taught in her English-as-a-second-language class could not, as alleged, have plotted to blow up gas stations or poison drinking water in U.S. reservoirs. "It doesn't make any sense to me," said Sanford, who taught many of the school's foreign students. "I can't imagine it.

His family agrees:

In brief interviews Thursday and Friday, his father said the charges are false. "He's a terrorist, my son? No!" Khan Ali said, speaking in the family's brick duplex in Windsor Mill. "I don't accept this."

What is Khan's alleged connection to terrorism?

A single-page "biography" released by the office of John D. Negroponte, the director of national intelligence, portrays Khan as a figure who had contact with terrorist operatives from Pakistan, Indonesia and elsewhere. U.S. officials also allege that Khan took orders from Khalid Sheik Mohammed, the man accused of orchestrating the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks.

Khalid Sheik Mohammed has also been held in an overseas secret prison, where reportedly he was subjected to waterboarding and other abusive interrogation techniques and eventually provided information to his captors. So, did he give up Khan? He probably would have given up his mother after being abused. Are his allegations against Khan, or any allegations from a tortured prisoner, reliable?

Khalid Khawaja, a former member of the Pakistani intelligence service who is acting as a spokesman for her, said information obtained through interrogations in the CIA prison system is inherently unreliable.

"When you are in that kind of custody and the worst kind of human treatment, you can get them to say any kind of statement," said Khawaja, who was reached by telephone in Pakistan. "They don't have any evidence against Majid Khan as far as I know. . . . We don't believe he has done anything. He is a victim of this so-called war on terrorism by George Bush."

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    Terrorist or Victim of Bush's Terror War | 25 comments (25 topical)
    Re: Terrorist or Victim of Bush's Terror War (none / 0) (#1)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Sep 11, 2006 at 05:50:29 AM EST
    So to date we have the famiy saying he is innocent, and, of course, we know that the government is lying. To bolster the claim of innocence we have one of his teachers, obviously a trained criminal suspect profiler opine:
    "It doesn't make any sense to me," said Sanford, who taught many of the school's foreign students. "I can't imagine it. "He wasn't one of these kinds of fool-around kids. He just seemed serious. . . . He wasn't a light-hearted jokester."
    I wonder if the teacher has considered that being a terrorist is serious work. Indeed, being a joker and loving fun would be, to me, the first indication that he wasn't guilty. And I wonder if he had been put in an English immersion class rather than bowing to the God of Politial Correctness that says we must not demand that new arrivals learn our language and use it he might have avoided the trap of hatred that has placed him in jail.

    Re: Terrorist or Victim of Bush's Terror War (none / 0) (#2)
    by merlallen on Mon Sep 11, 2006 at 06:40:39 AM EST
    now see, if the above poster were being tortured he would never lie. he must be one of those big brave republican'ts. actually i bet he'd give up his wife, mother, grandmother, kids and pet.

    Re: Terrorist or Victim of Bush's Terror War (none / 0) (#6)
    by Repack Rider on Mon Sep 11, 2006 at 07:17:50 AM EST
    So to date we have the famiy saying he is innocent, and, of course, we know that the government is lying.
    Jim, I know it's tough to sort out competing claims. Some people say you are an unemployed loser who lives on Cheetos in your mom's basement. You do not agree, and claim to be an employed and worthwhile member of society. FOX News would report both as equally likely, in order to be "fair and balanced." The solution to your mental dilemma, of course, is to try Khan in open court and make the government prove its case, in accordance with, let me think, oh yes, THE CONSTITUTION. Remind me again why the Constitution is so 9/10.
    he might have avoided the trap of hatred that has placed him in jail.
    Until we get a new administration we are all subject to the "trap of hatred."

    Re: Terrorist or Victim of Bush's Terror War (none / 0) (#7)
    by Sailor on Mon Sep 11, 2006 at 07:30:51 AM EST
    Yeah, ignore the secret prisons, ignore the torture and refuse to give a fair trial, that's what's what America stands for thanks to blind allegiance to incurious george the fearful leader.

    Re: Terrorist or Victim of Bush's Terror War (none / 0) (#10)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Sep 11, 2006 at 09:38:03 AM EST
    RePack - Can you get nothing right? I have never claimed to be "employed." I am retired old fart (ROF) living in my palatial retirement compound, catfish farm and BBQ stand. I have been known to travel to LA, Vegas and Tunica to take a hand or five of Holdem, but only if I can fly First Class. And of course I have no funds beyond Social Security to do this. Yeah. Sure. Try him? Works for me. And if you want to make that argument, fine. You know I say use a tribunal format that will let all the evidence in, rather than the "keep evidence out" format of our standard CJS. But spare me the sympathy, and the logic of this:
    Mohammed.... eventually provided information to his captors. So, did he give up Khan?
    Who knows? I don't, neither do you. So why ask the question? If he did it will come out at the trial. Merallen - See the two paragraps directly above. et al - The post asks a leading question and the responders give the wanted answer.

    Re: Terrorist or Victim of Bush's Terror War (none / 0) (#11)
    by Repack Rider on Mon Sep 11, 2006 at 11:30:55 AM EST
    I am retired old fart (ROF) living in my palatial retirement compound, catfish farm and BBQ stand. I have been known to travel to LA, Vegas and Tunica to take a hand or five of Holdem, but only if I can fly First Class.
    It was rheotrical, because I was not aware of any claims, except that I was pretty sure you would dispute those people who say you live on Cheetos in your mom's basement. BTW, "those people" are the same anonymous sources that back up all the claims made by FOX News. As a retired person, you are then from a generation that expected universal military service of every young man. When did you serve? Which branch?
    And of course I have no funds beyond Social Security to do this. Yeah. Sure.
    Good thing that SS is the most successful government program in our history then, isn't it?
    Try him? Works for me. And if you want to make that argument, fine.
    Say, I JUST DID MAKE THAT ARGUMENT. You have a remarkable grasp of the obvious.
    You know I say use a tribunal format that will let all the evidence in, rather than the "keep evidence out" format of our standard CJS.
    As long as the guy has a chance to dispute evidence presented against him, to present evidence of his own, to be adequately represented and protected from having to testify against himself, to be protected from the use of evidence obtained through torture or otherwise illegally, to confront his accusers, and to present his case to a panel that is not made up of associates of his prosecutors, I have no problem with a fair trial. After all, if we want other countries to adhere to our standards of democracy, it is incumbent on us to do so also.

    Re: Terrorist or Victim of Bush's Terror War (none / 0) (#13)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Sep 11, 2006 at 03:57:31 PM EST
    RePack - I haven't posted that "palatial retirement compound" less than 20 times. Please. If you are going to make snarky comments, be accurate. As for SC, I figure it has cost me about $400 a month, plus the fact that I can't pass the results of my hard work on to my wife and family. If you consider that fair and wonderul I wonder if you have a wife and family. So you agree on a tribunal? Gasp. Such a surprise, but a sweet one. As for military service, as I have stated and restated... Ten years Naval Aviation. You serve? I also support Universal Military Service, kind of a "everybody's gonna do it" draft. That gets the money people involved and understand the military. It also keeps the military exposed to civilians, something I think important. See "Roman Empire," etc,

    Re: Terrorist or Victim of Bush's Terror War (none / 0) (#3)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Sep 11, 2006 at 04:25:37 PM EST
    Jim, Be rational. You know nothing of this kid. Nothing. You're basing your opinion on blind faith in a government which, in this area, has no track record, except one of sweeping up MORE innocent people than guilty and fighting a depleting and distracting and wasteful war in Iraq. Read FIASCO by Thomas E. Ricks if you want an in-depth look at how sweeping up people in Iraq has hurt our cause greatly, has brought shame and a sense of seeking revenge on the part of the wrongly jailed and abused, and generally been an terrific aid and recruiting tool for the insurgency. Thanks to a complete lack of leadership and, most importantly, absolutely no cohesive strategy from the top levels of government you're sooooo trusting of. We had no plan besides best-case scenarios. The military didn't even HAVE counterinsurgency training prior to this. None. They had turned their backs on the guerilla lessons of Vietnam. And their civilian leaders thought it just fine, as roses and kisses would be the only outcome of invasion in their minds. And this is the leadership you're going to trust? Good luck. As for immersion classes, what on earth does this have to do with THIS case? His teachers are SUPPORTING what you say you want. Their EXPERIENCE with him was that he WAS acculturated. You, on the other hand, have no experience with him and ASSUME that his teachers are wrong. And children of immigrants learn English just fine, as kids are little sponges for that kind of learning, and then they act as their parents' bridge between the old culture and the new.

    Re: Terrorist or Victim of Bush's Terror War (none / 0) (#4)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Sep 11, 2006 at 04:25:37 PM EST
    Ack, that last post was by Dadler. Just can't remember to enter that name.

    Re: Terrorist or Victim of Bush's Terror War (none / 0) (#5)
    by ScottW on Mon Sep 11, 2006 at 04:25:37 PM EST
    PPJ, Good point, so let's have a trial and see some evidence that hasn't been obtained from torture. But that won't happen, so I guess we are left with quotes from parents and teachers. I would call that pathetic, cubed.

    Re: Terrorist or Victim of Bush's Terror War (none / 0) (#8)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Sep 11, 2006 at 04:25:37 PM EST
    Problem is: Who gets to decide who's innocent? In Guantanamo, NOBODY ever decides, so these hapless incarcarated people languish forever. There is NO EXIT from Guantanamo for those who are innocent or for those who are not! Do we let the English teacher decide if this guy is innocent? Or the CIA interregators? What SHOULD happen at Guantanamo is that they should follow the Geneva Conventions and allow the innocent to depart.

    Re: Terrorist or Victim of Bush's Terror War (none / 0) (#9)
    by Jen M on Mon Sep 11, 2006 at 04:25:37 PM EST
    Until there is a trial none of what anyone says means anything Besides, if going after Bin Laden isn't worth it, surely going after this guy is even a bigger waste of time.

    Re: Terrorist or Victim of Bush's Terror War (none / 0) (#12)
    by ltgesq on Mon Sep 11, 2006 at 04:25:37 PM EST
    Why do you guys engage mr. ppj? His comments over time have shown a consistent misunderstanding of the justice system, democracy, and logic. He could be easily replaced by a random dialog generator bot. Despite his beliefs, the rules of evidence and procedure mostly serve to prevent the defendant from introducing evidence. For the state, the bar is petty low.

    Re: Terrorist or Victim of Bush's Terror War (none / 0) (#14)
    by Repack Rider on Mon Sep 11, 2006 at 04:45:28 PM EST
    As for SC, I figure it has cost me about $400 a month, plus the fact that I can't pass the results of my hard work on to my wife and family. If you consider that fair and wonderul I wonder if you have a wife and family.
    I have the best wife and family anyone could ask for.
    So you agree on a tribunal? Gasp. Such a surprise, but a sweet one.
    As long as the conditions I outlined are met, no problem. Those conditions would be: the guy has a chance to dispute evidence presented against him, to present evidence of his own, to be adequately represented and protected from having to testify against himself, to be protected from the use of evidence obtained through torture or otherwise illegally, to confront his accusers, and to present his case to a panel that is not made up of associates of his prosecutors.
    Ten years Naval Aviation. You serve?
    US Army E-5 ETS 16-Feb-1968.
    I also support Universal Military Service, kind of a "everybody's gonna do it" draft.
    I have no problem with that. It's what ended the Vietnam war.

    Re: Terrorist or Victim of Bush's Terror War (none / 0) (#16)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Sep 11, 2006 at 07:53:48 PM EST
    RePack - No. What ended the war was the gutless wonders in Congress caving to a bunch of Left Wing demos and fellow travelers....after they conviced General Giap he could win a political war. And I'm not talking about a draft, but a law that says everyone serves two years after high school, or age 19, no exceptions except for severe physical or mental problems. Might make the Demos and Lefties consider what they are saying and doing if their kids wete serving. And now we come to your sticking point. You want regular full up US CJ system rules on evidence chains, or it gets kicked. Sorry RePack, our love affair was short lived.

    Re: Terrorist or Victim of Bush's Terror War (none / 0) (#15)
    by soccerdad on Mon Sep 11, 2006 at 10:12:44 PM EST
    The war on terror ended the day Mission Accomplihed was declared in Afghanistan. Since that time it has been a classic imperialistic war fought for resources and geopolitical power as are all wars of conquest. To keep labelling this immoral disaster a war on terror does a diservice to the intelligence of all of us and to the memory of those who did die from terrorists 5 years ago.

    Re: Terrorist or Victim of Bush's Terror War (none / 0) (#17)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Sep 11, 2006 at 10:12:44 PM EST
    A tortured person cannot make up a name they don't know....

    Re: Terrorist or Victim of Bush's Terror War (none / 0) (#18)
    by Ernesto Del Mundo on Mon Sep 11, 2006 at 10:37:53 PM EST
    Might make the Demos and Lefties consider what they are saying and doing if their kids wete serving.
    Might make the Repigs think twice about sending their own kids to die for their lies. The again, probably not.

    Re: Terrorist or Victim of Bush's Terror War (none / 0) (#23)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Sep 12, 2006 at 08:11:19 AM EST
    Soccerdad... The war on terror ended the day Mission Accomplihed was declared in Afghanistan. As usual you are waaaay off base and misinformed. (notice I didn't call you a liar as is done many times on here by you and many others) The famous "mission accomplished" statement was in reference to toppling Saddam's regime and had nothing to do with Afghanistan. And BTW..... the way on terror is not over and will not be for some time. I don't recall anybody but you saying it was. I do however agree with you on the 'war on terror' label. It's actually not a war...it's a battle we are fighting with both hands tied behind our backs..thanks to the libs in this country. If it were an actual WAR.. that should be fought like a WAR... It would have been over by now!

    Re: Terrorist or Victim of Bush's Terror War (none / 0) (#24)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Sep 12, 2006 at 04:17:38 PM EST
    If it were an actual WAR.. that should be fought like a WAR... It would have been over by now!
    Gosh darn liberals with their control of exactly ZERO branches of the government! Why, if only we had the will to exterminate these internal enemies, then finally FREEDOM would REIGN!

    Re: Terrorist or Victim of Bush's Terror War (none / 0) (#25)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Sep 12, 2006 at 08:39:39 PM EST
    A tortured person cannot make up a name they don't know.... No, but they can implicate a name that has been given to them, or of someone who is otherwise innocent of wrongdoing but that they know from other contexts.

    Re: Terrorist or Victim of Bush's Terror War (none / 0) (#19)
    by HK on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 01:14:52 PM EST
    Posted by Anonymous September 11, 2006 09:02 PM A tortured person cannot make up a name they don't know....
    A tortured person can mention the name of a person they know but who has no connection to the crime.

    Re: Terrorist or Victim of Bush's Terror War (none / 0) (#20)
    by soccerdad on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 01:14:52 PM EST
    ppj and more of his deluded revisionist history Maybe he's just warming up to blame the left when the helicopters fly the last US soldier out of the Green Zone. Pathetic as usual

    Re: Terrorist or Victim of Bush's Terror War (none / 0) (#21)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 01:14:52 PM EST
    Why should they ask me to put on a uniform and go 10,000 miles from home and drop bombs and bullets on Brown people in Vietnam while so-called Negro people in Louisville are treated like dogs and denied simple human rights? No I'm not going 10,000 miles from home to help murder and burn another poor nation simply to continue the domination of white slave masters of the darker people the world over. This is the day when such evils must come to an end. I have been warned that to take such a stand would cost me millions of dollars. But I have said it once and I will say it again. The real enemy of my people is here. Muhammed Ali 1967 Deja vu, Deja bloody vu.

    Re: Terrorist or Victim of Bush's Terror War (none / 0) (#22)
    by Jen M on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 01:14:52 PM EST
    A tortured person gives up the names he does know. The lineup of his favorite sports team, the guy who owes him money, the bully who beat him up in elementary school, his neighbor....

    Terrorist or Victim of Bush's Terror War | 25 comments (25 topical)