home

Everything Didn't Change on 9/11

by TChris

It took little time after 9/11 for neocons to start repeating the mantra, "Everything changed after 9/11," a phrase that the traditional media uncritically reported. But many things didn't change: the Constitution and its Bill of Rights, the American values of privacy and liberty, and the need for a governmental system of checks and balances. The LA Times reports on the things that did change:

[Law enforcement and intelligence-gathering authorities] increased the tapping of Americans' phone calls and voice mails. They watched Internet traffic and e-mails as never before. They tailed greater numbers of people and into places previously deemed off-limits, such as mosques.

They clandestinely accessed bank and credit card transactions and school records. They monitored travel. And they entered homes without notice, looking for signs of terrorist activity and copying the contents of entire file cabinets and computer hard drives. ...

In the five years since the attacks, the scope of domestic surveillance has steadily increased, according to interviews with dozens of current and former U.S. officials and privacy experts.

Surveillance of Americans doesn't end with intercepted telephone calls and secret, warrantless intelligence gathering.

The NSA has improved its ability to monitor the entire spectrum of communications, including fiber-optic and wireless transmissions, instant messages, BlackBerry e-mails and voice conversations sent over the Internet, officials and experts say. ... Several congressional officials and privacy experts said they believed the NSA also tracked the movement of "persons of interest" by the electronic signals emitted by their cellphones and the Global Positioning Systems in the vehicles they drive. ...

The U.S. military has a program known as Threat and Local Observation Notice, which compiles reports of suspicious activity in and around military installations. Under TALON, military intelligence squads have monitored American citizens at scores of events, including religious and antiwar protests, and have filed suspicious-action reports, according to records obtained by Sen. Patrick J. Leahy (D-Vt.).

Add data mining to the list of surveillance techniques, and the "changes" have affected everyone.

It's time to change back, to acknowledge that freedom, not fear, drives our system of government. It's time to restore checks and balances, and to hold the executive branch of government accountable for its circumvention of the law.

"The White House simply refuses to be straight with us about what they're up to," said Sen. Ron Wyden (D-Ore.), who says he has pressed unsuccessfully for answers as a member of the Senate's Select Committee on Intelligence, which entitles him to classified briefings on the subject.

"My sense today is that there is a staggering amount of personal information being collected on millions of Americans," Wyden said. "And how it's accessed and how it's used is at best unclear. What is certain is that there is no real accountability to ensure that a balance is struck between fighting terrorism and protecting privacy."

< Goodwill Squandered | Ammonium Nitrate is Not a Bomb >
  • The Online Magazine with Liberal coverage of crime-related political and injustice news

  • Contribute To TalkLeft


  • Display: Sort:
    Re: Everything Didn't Change on 9/11 (none / 0) (#2)
    by Scrutinizer on Mon Sep 11, 2006 at 02:58:13 PM EST
    Something did change on 9/11. A lot of people got stupid.

    Re: Everything Didn't Change on 9/11 (none / 0) (#4)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Sep 11, 2006 at 03:42:12 PM EST
    et al - Can someone tell me why mosques are considered off limits? Based on the results in England and Europe, that should be first place we look.

    Re: Everything Didn't Change on 9/11 (none / 0) (#1)
    by Ernesto Del Mundo on Mon Sep 11, 2006 at 04:25:37 PM EST
    Another thing that never changes: The species of opportunistic vultures like Guliani, Cheney and Bush will always exploit other peoples' tragedy for personal gain.

    Re: Everything Didn't Change on 9/11 (none / 0) (#3)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Sep 11, 2006 at 04:25:37 PM EST
    All that surveillance, and they still haven't been able to find any real terrorists - they find wannabes though!

    Re: Everything Didn't Change on 9/11 (none / 0) (#6)
    by Sailor on Mon Sep 11, 2006 at 05:52:35 PM EST
    Can someone tell me why mosques are considered off limits?
    Stupid, incredibly stupid, strawman. Bush has already bombed them, and that's worked out very well[/snark] Since ppj hasn't condemed the bombing of Christian churches and he endorses the bombing of other religions houses then he must endorse the bombing of all houses of worship.

    Re: Everything Didn't Change on 9/11 (none / 0) (#7)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Sep 11, 2006 at 06:07:23 PM EST
    Can someone tell me why White Houses are considered off limits? Based on the results in England and Europe, that should be first place we look. ---edger

    Re: Everything Didn't Change on 9/11 (none / 0) (#9)
    by Repack Rider on Mon Sep 11, 2006 at 07:32:19 PM EST
    Can someone tell me why mosques are considered off limits?
    Because this is the United States of America, not a dictatorship, and we have this thing called the Constitution that limits how much government can intrude on private citizens without a warrant issued by a judge on one and only one basis, which is known as "probable cause." Not "suspicion." Not "because they pray funny." Only a coward and a traitor would suggest surrendering a civil right purchased with the blood of patriots because the president tells them to be scared. Of course, only a coward of a president would suggest that Americans SHOULD be scared. We once had a courageous president who said that all we have to fear is fear itself. Now we have one who WANTS Americans to be fearful. That coward disgusts me. I would rather be killed by a terrorist than be the one who surrendered the Bill of Rights. But then, I'm a patriot and the president is a deserter. Big difference.

    Re: Everything Didn't Change on 9/11 (none / 0) (#5)
    by Pol on Mon Sep 11, 2006 at 10:12:44 PM EST
    Seems like people would catch on that if Bush really cared about Americans, he'd show he cared. He'd tell us, "We have nothing to fear but fear itself" instead of, "Be very afraid."

    Re: Everything Didn't Change on 9/11 (none / 0) (#8)
    by Lww on Mon Sep 11, 2006 at 10:12:44 PM EST
    Testing, testing.... I've typed a few gems and they ended up nowhere... Who are the profiteers of 9-11? We're talkin blood money.

    Re: Everything Didn't Change on 9/11 (none / 0) (#10)
    by chuckj on Mon Sep 11, 2006 at 10:12:44 PM EST
    But then, I'm a patriot and the president is a deserter. Big difference.
    Repack, we're talking about Bush here, not Clinton.

    Re: Everything Didn't Change on 9/11 (none / 0) (#11)
    by bad Jim on Tue Sep 12, 2006 at 02:09:36 AM EST
    It used to be the land of the free and the home of the brave. Nowadays every other Hummer has a bumper sticker saying "Torture saves lives". The rest invisibly bear the legend, "You have nothing to fear if you have nothing to hide."

    Re: Everything Didn't Change on 9/11 (none / 0) (#14)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Sep 12, 2006 at 07:44:48 AM EST
    et al - Did all those patroits die to allow this? Uh, you might take a look at what is going on in some mosques.
    A LEADING imam in the mosque where the July 7 bombers worshipped has hailed their terrorist attack on London as a "good" act in a secretly taped conversation with an undercover reporter. Hamid Ali, spiritual leader of the mosque in West Yorkshire, said it had forced people to take notice when peaceful meetings and conferences had no impact. He also praised the bombers as the "children" of Abdullah al-Faisal, a firebrand Muslim cleric, who was convicted of inciting murder and racial hatred in 2003. Ali revealed that the leader of the London suicide bombers had attended sermons in Yorkshire by al-Faisal and tapes of al-Faisal's teachings were still circulating within his mosque.
    There are many other examples. Especially if you look at the Danish cartoon examples, and, of course, almost anything involved with Israel. Freedom of religion is not a franchise to praise terrorist killers and incire more killers.

    Re: Everything Didn't Change on 9/11 (none / 0) (#15)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Sep 12, 2006 at 07:52:31 AM EST
    RePack - And after saying that he locked up thousands of Japanese Americans. sailor writes:
    Since ppj hasn't condemed the bombing of Christian churches and he endorses the bombing of other religions houses then he must endorse the bombing of all houses of worship.
    The above is absolute fiction brought to you by a member of the "I make things up club."

    Re: Everything Didn't Change on 9/11 (none / 0) (#16)
    by Repack Rider on Tue Sep 12, 2006 at 08:12:40 AM EST
    Did all those patroits die to allow this?
    If they died to allow the Freemen in Montana to preach terror, for David Koresh to preach insanity, for Jim Jones to preach suicide, for the Concerned Citizens Council to preach racism, or for every Republican politician in the country to preach fear, then the answer is yes. Speech is protected. Action is not.
    Freedom of religion is not a franchise to praise terrorist killers and incire more killers.
    What crime would you charge someone like that with? What evidence would you produce to support the charge? David Berkowitz, the "Son of Sam" killer, thought that a dog told him to do it. Do you want to put prior restraint on dogs too? Even the most innocuous words can be misinterpreted, and it is up to the prosecutor to draw a direct line between speech and action.
    And after saying that he locked up thousands of Japanese Americans.
    Some of whom were the parents of my schoolmates, kids named Nishimura, Hayakawa and Iyama who can be found with me in my high school yearbook. I am aware of this shameful episode because I knew some of the people involved. The fact that it was a shameful episode is just one of the many reasons we must not let such things happen again. The way to start is to enforce the Bill of Rights. Because FDR did something shameful, is Mr. Bush REQUIRED to, or do we learn from history? See, I can ADMIT when an icon has done something wrong, but Bush supporters have yet to discover anything he has done wrong.

    Re: Everything Didn't Change on 9/11 (none / 0) (#18)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Sep 12, 2006 at 10:08:49 AM EST
    Scrutinizer:Something did change on 9/11. A lot of people got stupid.
    The Bush administration had been warned by the CIA months before September 11th of Al Qaida terrorists and plans to hijack airplanes. Nothing of substance was done to address the threat - "The proper agencies were warned," we were told, but no representative of any pertinent agency has since stepped forward to acknowledge receipt of any warnings. In fact, the spokesman for Massport, the Massachusetts state agency responsible for security at Logan airport, stated bluntly in the pages of the Boston Globe that his agency never heard from the Federal government regarding any hijacking threat. The two aircraft that destroyed the World Trade Center towers and killed thousands of Americans went wheels-up at Logan. More...
    ---edger

    Re: Everything Didn't Change on 9/11 (none / 0) (#19)
    by Sailor on Tue Sep 12, 2006 at 10:53:23 AM EST
    sailor writes:
    Since ppj hasn't condemed the bombing of Christian churches and he endorses the bombing of other religions houses then he must endorse the bombing of all houses of worship.
    The above is absolute fiction brought to you by a member of the "I make things up club."
    Nope, just using your logic: You do endorse the war which has included attacking mosques. You haven't condemned (as far as the searchable TL archives go) bombing christian churches ergo, (in ppj logic) you are for bombing churches of all denominations ... just like you constantly accuse 'the left' of not being against something because we all didn't declare to be against it. Hoist on your own retard jim.

    Re: Everything Didn't Change on 9/11 (none / 0) (#20)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Sep 12, 2006 at 11:59:32 AM EST
    edger - Say what you will, but here is a direct quote:
    At the special meeting on July 5 were the FBI, Secret Service, FAA, Customs, Coast Guard, and Immigration. We told them that we thought a spectacular al Qaeda terrorist attack was coming in the near future." That had been had been George Tenet's language. "We asked that they take special measures to increase security and surveillance. Thus, the White House did ensure that domestic law enforcement including the FAA knew that the CSG believed that a major al Qaeda attack was coming, and it could be in the U.S., and did ask that special measures be taken."
    Now, if you want to claim the meeting never happened, please do so. But that claim will just make you look silly. Link If you want to argue over who told who what, fire away. That the FAA has been seriously screwed up for years, as was the FBI over "PC" issues and, of course, the infamaous "Chinese Firewall" memeo by Jameie Gorelick, you will receive no argument from me. That Bush's administration didn't fire these Clinton holdovers was a mistake. Keeping Tenet on board was a mistake. But you can't argue that Bush was responsible for these people's poor performance without noting that Clinton hired them. Wanna talk? RePack - As you surely know, freedom of speech is not absolute. Or maybe you don't. sailor - Your lack of logic and inability to make a comparsion point is so very limited. I say we should look at mosques and you have me bombing all churches. As Gump said, "Stupid is as stipid does."

    Re: Everything Didn't Change on 9/11 (none / 0) (#21)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Sep 12, 2006 at 12:24:13 PM EST
    Five Years On, 9/11 Truth Movement Reaches Critical Mass
    Movement News- Near Majority Support, Powerful New Tools, and Energized Activism Promise Endgame Soon September 11 Press Release from 911truth.org:
    Escalating mainstream mistrust of "official 9/11 story" driven by important new films, books and activist campaigns; promises new openings for insurgent candidacies and radical reform initiatives.
    September 11, 2006 (PRWEB) -- The year leading up to the fifth anniversary of the September 11 attacks has been marked by an unprecedented upsurge in public mistrust of the official story portrayed in the 9/11 Commission Report. Respected national polling firms Zogby and Scripps Howard have shown that less than half the public believes in the conclusions or integrity of the 9/11 Commission, and 36% of Americans now think the administration was actively complicit in the attacks to advance its preplanned Mideast war agenda. This outburst of popular skepticism has come in spite of five years of lockstep support for the official 9/11 narrative by the national press, broadcast media, and both major political parties.
    ---edger

    Re: Everything Didn't Change on 9/11 (none / 0) (#22)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Sep 12, 2006 at 12:45:52 PM EST
    this is soo true. It reminds me of the Rich in general. They don't care about the poor bastards theyt step all over on thier climb to the top. I read a great article about the Rich and taxation here It's a grear piece and a sad truuth about the Right in general. Can anyone say MENTQAL DISORDER?!

    Re: Everything Didn't Change on 9/11 (none / 0) (#23)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Sep 12, 2006 at 02:12:22 PM EST
    That Bush's administration didn't fire these Clinton holdovers was a mistake. Keeping Tenet on board was a mistake. But, but, but... bush doesn't make mistakes, Right? But you can't argue that Bush was responsible for these people's poor performance without noting that Clinton hired them. Sure I can. He should have fired anyone incompetent in his administration. Starting with himself. He's the president. He's the one with the authority. He's the one with the responsibility. Ummm.... well... uhhhh... hmmmm. Oh, sh*t.
    Not only did the Bush administration fail to act on warnings of imminent terrorist attacks and the need to provide systematic government responses to coordinate information and attempt to prevent and aggressively fight terrorism, but, shamefully, the Bush administration halted a series of attempts to fight the bin Laden network that had been begun by the Clinton administration. Earlier, a wave of revelations came out, ignored completely in the U.S. media, concerning how high-ranking officials in the Bush administration had completely neglected threats of terrorist attacks by the bin Laden network and even curtailed efforts to shut-down the terrorist organization that had been initiated by the Clinton administration. The Bush administration has repeatedly made warnings of imminent terror attacks, keeping the country jittery and justifying their unjustifiable foreign and domestic policies, but they have done little to make the country safer and have instead exploited the crisis to push through their hardright agenda. Bush administration responsibility for the September terrorism attacks
    ---edger

    Re: Everything Didn't Change on 9/11 (none / 0) (#24)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Sep 12, 2006 at 02:27:47 PM EST
    Then again, maybe it's not fair for me to be so critical of bush. He was probably too busy to live up to his responsibility. ---edger

    Re: Everything Didn't Change on 9/11 (none / 0) (#25)
    by Sailor on Tue Sep 12, 2006 at 03:51:43 PM EST
    Your lack of logic and inability to make a comparsion point is so very limited.
    ppj is right for a change, my lack of logic is very limited. As ppj says "Stupid is as stipid does." [sic] BTW, ppj, quoting condiliar on Faux news is still not a link to facts. e.g. Rice stands by claims of Al-Qaeda-Saddam links The 9/11 commission said it wasn't true, the senate committee dominated by repubs said it wasn't true and bush said it wasn't true. But trust ppj to promote a liar's self promoting lies as truth. for more condilies look here for a linked and sourced list of them.

    Re: Everything Didn't Change on 9/11 (none / 0) (#26)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Sep 12, 2006 at 04:09:23 PM EST
    Great link, Sailor! Here's one more condilie. Stanford my a$$. She'll probably run herself. Condi Reveals Her Post-Impeachment Plans ---edger

    Re: Everything Didn't Change on 9/11 (none / 0) (#27)
    by Repack Rider on Tue Sep 12, 2006 at 06:25:44 PM EST
    Repack: But then, I'm a patriot and the president is a deserter. Big difference. Chuckj:
    Repack, we're talking about Bush here, not Clinton.
    Yes, I am aware that Bill Clinton avoided the draft, and George W. Bush deserted his unit. Your point? PPJ:
    As you surely know, freedom of speech is not absolute.
    Correct. You can't yell "Fire!" in a crowded theater if there isn't one, and you can't lie on national TV about the historical actions of Bill Clinton. Wait.

    Re: Everything Didn't Change on 9/11 (none / 0) (#28)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 07:46:51 AM EST
    Sailor, the meeting either did, or did not happen. You offer no proof that it did not. In fact one of your links refer to the meeting.
    In July 2001, the Administration was also told that terrorists had explored using airplanes as missiles. [Source: NBC, 9/10/02; LA Times, 9/27/0
    So, the FAA was told, as was the FBI, etc. Now how about a rational question from you. Why didn't the FAA, who was at the meeting, take action? Terminal dumbness?? Why didn't the FBI open up the computer? Because the ruling was they didn't have reasonable cause, and couldn't get a warrant. Are you not capable of understanding the atmosphere of "PC" and "CYA" that had soaked through our law enforcement agencies? Are you incapable of understanding that the information on the computer could most likely have prevented 9/11? Do you think we could just admit this and get on with life? Do you not understand that the nitpicking, CYAing , etc. by all the factions in the Clinton admisitration, and later in the Bush administration, was a huge problem? And has been for the past 30 years?? edger - Your comment shows, again, that you don't care about solving problems. You are just a Bush Hater At work - BHAW. And I hold no love for Bush, or any politican for that matter, but the truth is the 7/5/01 meeting happened, the agencies were warned and they failed to react. That Bush didn't fire them in advance was a mistake but if you are going to blame Bush for not doing that, you have to blame Clinton for hiring them. That Bush didn't fire the whole bunch after 9/11 was a huge mistake, but if he had done so everyone would have claimed that he was passing the buck. And that would have, in a sense, been true. But managers fire people who fail in the tasks they were hired for. And sometimes the people couldn't have succeeded given what they had to work with, and other constratints, but that's the way it works. In either event he should have fired them. RePack - That old story re desertion has been disproven, except to the Moonbats. Which group shall I put you in? ;-) And there is no prior restraint on movies. If Clinton feels he has been slandered and libeled he should sue. He certainly has the resources and the right. The transcripts will make fascinating reading.

    Re: Everything Didn't Change on 9/11 (none / 0) (#30)
    by soccerdad on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 08:16:41 AM EST
    BB channels Malkin and her crap has been disproved see David Neiwert's blog for an in depth analysis BB is just a fascist wanna be who's perfectly willing to give up what ever freedoms the state demands.

    Re: Everything Didn't Change on 9/11 (none / 0) (#31)
    by Sailor on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 08:41:23 AM EST
    Sailor, the meeting either did, or did not happen.
    Not the point; taking condi's word for what was said in the meeting is the point. Now find a link for the minutes of the meeting.
    Why didn't the FAA, who was at the meeting, take action?
    That's not their mission; why didn't the WH listen and coordinate the agencies? You know, like clinton's WH did when the stopped the millenium plot.

    Re: Everything Didn't Change on 9/11 (none / 0) (#29)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 10:17:02 AM EST
    But then, I'm a patriot and the president is a deserter. Big difference.
    Repack, we're talking about Bush here, not Clinton
    Not that RepugliKKKans care one whit about truth, but Clinton had a valid deferment from Senator Fullbright's office - Bush was AWOL for over a year, could not copmplete his service and would not report for duty.

    Re: Everything Didn't Change on 9/11 (none / 0) (#17)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 10:32:55 AM EST
    Freedom of religion is not a franchise to praise terrorist killers and incire more killers.
    Jim I am with you one hundred percent on this one. But let it apply equally to the christers as well. What follows is something that I have held back for a short while. It was originally in reply to Squeakies response to my Waffa Sultan post It may loose me a friends but I cannot endorse what appears to be at times unconditional defense of Islam and it's cultures.
    She speaks of only religious extremists who are muslims. Not a peep about others killing in the name of religion.
    Squeaky. I know you are not niave, so I take this as rhetorical.
    There is no justification for any murderous acts in the name of the supernatural.
    Of that, you, I, and ninety nine percent of those that post here agree entirely. But it appears that justification is granted between the pages of a book written some thirteen centuries past.
    Iran: No more empty promises - no more child executions The Government of Iran has a history of stating that it does not execute child offenders, but the facts tell a different story. Amnesty International
    Currently, there is a stoning-to-death sentence on Zhila and Bakhtiyar Izadi from Iran. There is a Campaign going on to save themon this website: Link.
    What happens in Stoning? In stoning to death, the victims's hands are tied behind their backs and their bodies are put in a cloth sack. Then, this human "package" is buried in a hole, with only the victims heads showing above the ground. If its a woman, she is buried upto her shoulders. This is to give her an seemingly equal (but nonetheless impossible) chance to escape recognizing her lesser physical strength.
    Fortunately the video is low resolution, nontheless it's not for the faint hearted. Be warned. Yes, This Is About Islam By SALMAN RUSHDIE It's not a very nice world is it? And before the rightwingers jump on the bandwagon just pause awhile and think what your government has done in this sixty years past. To mention a few. It dropped two atomic weapons on civilians. It dropped fifteen million tons of munitions and napalm on civilians. It sprayed eighteen million gallons of dioxins not just on civilians, it sprayed it on MOTHER EARTH. Mankind is a bollocks.

    Re: Everything Didn't Change on 9/11 (none / 0) (#32)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 11:54:37 AM EST
    Soccerdad... BB is just a fascist wanna be who's perfectly willing to give up what ever freedoms the state demands SD is just a member of Hezzbolah and is committed to seeing the USA fall!

    Re: Everything Didn't Change on 9/11 (none / 0) (#33)
    by soccerdad on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 12:37:02 PM EST
    BB time for your nap.

    Re: Everything Didn't Change on 9/11 (none / 0) (#12)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 01:14:52 PM EST
    So true, what changed? We (America) became the worlds bully, out to secure and protect big oil interests around the world. 9-11 seems to be the battle cry of the Republic. Were told to learn lessons of history. Hollow words when we are asked to give up civil rights( there's a bill in Congress right now to legalize wire taps and more). Isn't it convent to have this Path to Lies at this juncture, a twofer for Rove, scare the congress like they did with the first Patriot act, while scaring the population for the election. Here we have the Bush Crime family, now joined by the Disney company and their pure partisan lie fest with it's disturbing camera direction, and hidden messages like freedom places you in danger, what's the loss of civil rights if you can be safer. Franklin once said that to give up liberty for safety gives you neither. ( I'm paraphrasing here. Well that's it, they try to swift boat the truth, then we don't go to their theme parks, ride on their cruise ships, buy their videos, or their toys. Say Bye Bye to the Disney Kingdom. They wouldn't distribute Michael Moore's movie because they SAID they didn't want to deal with controversial subjects. So 40 million dollars later, two months before an election they want to air this pack of lies commercial free. Gee Sinclair tried this trick once before. And to top it off, It's airing unedited in New Zealand right now. What's next, a rush Halloween release of the foreign release?!!!! I think this is a GOP campaign contribution. that's my latest rant, to see my rant in cartoon form go to my website www.whatnowtoons.com

    Re: Everything Didn't Change on 9/11 (none / 0) (#13)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 01:14:52 PM EST
    Repack, we're talking about Bush here, not Clinton.
    chuckj, when and from what branch of the service did clinton desert? a draft avoider i'll grant you, a deserter, no. of course, this puts him in good company with messrs. bush, cheney, et al, of the present administration. everything did change on 9/11, we slowly have become a police state.