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Weekend Open Thread

By Jeralyn, Section Blog Related
Posted on Sat Aug 26, 2006 at 12:15:18 PM EST
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    Weekend Open Thread | 41 comments (41 topical)
    Re: Weekend Open Thread (none / 0) (#1)
    by profmarcus on Sat Aug 26, 2006 at 02:25:09 PM EST
    plausible deniability, my a*s...
    The U.S. government flatly denies it engages in torture. In December 2005, Secretary of State Condoleeza Rice stated, "The U.S. does not permit or condone torture...or transport detainees from one country to another for the purpose of torture." She added, "where appropriate, the U.S. seeks assurances that transferred persons will not be tortured." Mounting evidence, however, suggests the contrary. Indeed, in the "global war on terror," torture is very much on the table. Amnesty International, the Council of Europe and Human Rights Watch describe case after case of terror suspects held incommunicado in secret detention centers, tortured, and kept out of the reach of the International Red Cross, lawyers or human rights groups. The United Nations human rights panel is also convinced of the abuses and demanded in July that the U S. close its secret prisons.
    and we wonder why the rest of the world is turning its back on the u.s... does our government really believe that the citizens of other countries don't KNOW what's going on...? cuz if they do, they're sadly mistaken... most of those folks know more, sometimes quite a BIT more, than folks in the u.s...

    Re: Weekend Open Thread (none / 0) (#2)
    by Linkmeister on Sat Aug 26, 2006 at 02:52:51 PM EST
    Testing 1,2,3...

    Re: Weekend Open Thread (none / 0) (#3)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Aug 26, 2006 at 03:07:46 PM EST
    Prof - Yes, they are really well informed with fake news. Link

    Re: Weekend Open Thread (none / 0) (#4)
    by desertswine on Sat Aug 26, 2006 at 03:52:14 PM EST
    Lucky thing for the Lebanese that they had plenty of dead children with which to stage their photographs.

    Re: Weekend Open Thread (none / 0) (#5)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Aug 26, 2006 at 04:13:31 PM EST
    desertswine - Glad to know that you endorse propaganda and lies. It allows us to know where your head is at all times.

    Re: Weekend Open Thread (none / 0) (#6)
    by jondee on Sat Aug 26, 2006 at 04:29:18 PM EST
    "Us": Jim and the little guy that speaks to him through the hole in the wall.

    Re: Weekend Open Thread (none / 0) (#7)
    by Ernesto Del Mundo on Sat Aug 26, 2006 at 04:59:18 PM EST
    PPJ...as for propaganda and lies...see the first entry to this thread. You are more than eager to swallow that steaming pile of deniability hook line and sinker. So pull your head out before commenting on other people, please.

    Re: Weekend Open Thread (none / 0) (#9)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Aug 26, 2006 at 05:07:36 PM EST
    I couldn't resist. See a tongue-in-cheek visual of two of Florida's finest...Katherine Harris & Anita Bryant...here: www.thoughttheater.com

    Re: Weekend Open Thread (none / 0) (#10)
    by Sailor on Sat Aug 26, 2006 at 05:25:25 PM EST
    ppj posts to a blog as the 'truth', whatzamatta ppj, powerline didn't cover it? Sheesh, he has more conspiracy theories than the area 51 folks.

    Re: Weekend Open Thread (none / 0) (#11)
    by jondee on Sat Aug 26, 2006 at 05:45:55 PM EST
    Former Nuremberg chief prosecuter Benjamin Ferenccz believes a strong case can be made for Bush being tried for war crimes. Powerline and FrontPage couldnt be reached for comments.

    Re: Weekend Open Thread (none / 0) (#12)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Aug 26, 2006 at 05:48:27 PM EST
    TL--i was wondering what your take was on Hastert nullifying election results link

    Re: Weekend Open Thread (none / 0) (#13)
    by Johnny on Sat Aug 26, 2006 at 07:14:33 PM EST
    This shows a link between scaring people and converting them to wrong-wingers. Free registration required. Good read. In short, tell people they are going to die someday, and they act like wrong-wingers. Tell judges, and they hand out harsher sentences, etc, etc...

    Re: Weekend Open Thread (none / 0) (#14)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Aug 26, 2006 at 08:01:30 PM EST
    et al - I posted a link. You posted nothing in response, just attacks on me. Thanks for confirming that you are aware of what the media did in Lebanon. And thanks, by your silence, of demonstrating your approval.

    Re: Weekend Open Thread (none / 0) (#15)
    by Sailor on Sat Aug 26, 2006 at 08:21:06 PM EST
    ppj, you posted a link to a blog. It, like you, has zero credibility.

    Re: Weekend Open Thread (none / 0) (#16)
    by roy on Sat Aug 26, 2006 at 08:39:32 PM EST
    Jimaka, I, for one, am right p*ssed with the MSM's complicity in Hezbolla's propagandizing. That said, you "posted a link" to pretend that it countered the story prof linked, which it didn't. If you want others to deal with your arguments on their merits, awesome, but you have to do your part. Don't just put your preferred truth into others' mouths when you post crap and get crap in return.

    Re: Weekend Open Thread (none / 0) (#17)
    by Aaron on Sat Aug 26, 2006 at 08:50:56 PM EST
    Janitors Claim School Fired Them For Being Haitian Miami Country Day School which according to their web page was founded in 1938, also advertises "a diverse learning experience". This private school is well-known in my area as the prestigious preparatory school. "...a coeducational college-preparatory day school for grades JK-12 with 1,000 students, and offers top technology, unique award-winning programs, and an emphasis on preparing its students both for college and for life. Located on a beautiful 16-acre campus bordered by the Biscayne Canal and Miami Shores Country Club, the architectural design incorporates nature into the learning environment, including a greenhouse and an aviary. " Apparently some unnamed official would like to do away with some of that diversity mentioned on their homepage and mission statement. "Miami Country Day School values and celebrates the diversity of our community because we understand the way in which it increases the richness of the entire educational experience. " The as yet unnamed school official supposedly made this comment, ["I don't want to deal with these f---ing Haitians. It's time to leave. All of you are out on the 25th."] The school's lawyer counters these accusations of discrimination by saying that this was merely a decision to contract out to another janitorial service provider, after using this provider for the last 13 years. Whether these accusations are true or not, I can say from firsthand experience that the Haitian community in South Florida is perhaps one of the most ignored and denigrated communities you're liable to find in the United States. For decades now immigrants from Haiti have provided the backbone for the Miami Dade and Broward County economy. It can be literally stated that this reservoir of Haitian labor built this community specifically through construction which utilizes low-paid Haitians as day laborers and as skilled construction workers as well. Numerous service industries like restaurants, security contractors, laundry and textile companies, cab companies, janitorial services etc. all rely on immigrants from Haiti to provide most of the people who actually do the work. And all of these industries have histories of abusing these workers. Growing up in South Florida, I heard the jokes for years about Haitians, belittling and smearing them, coming from whites, Hispanics, and African-Americans. Newly arrived Haitians are treated much the way all new immigrants were put upon throughout US history. It's that special place that Blacks, the Irish, the Italians, the Jews, the Chinese etc. have all found themselves at one time or another. It's not a place you want to be in America, at the bottom of the socioeconomic ladder looking up at everyone else. This preparatory school claims to be an institution "which promotes the Judeo-Christian ethic in a learning environment that values and respects each individual member of the school community." If that's so, you would think they would be grateful for the cheap labor Haitians provide, people who perhaps hold some of the most deep-seated Judeo-Christian ethics of any people I've ever met in the Western Hemisphere. The majority of Haitians are Christian, the kind of Christians that are hard to find in America these days, you would perhaps have two go back to the 1930s in America to find the kind of genuine Christian fervor, and belief in the teachings of Christ, that's to be found in the people of Haiti, whose religious beliefs are such an integral part of their social foundations. "Miami Country Day School values and celebrates the diversity of our community because we understand the way in which it increases the richness of the entire educational experience." If these words in the schools mission statement are anything more than lip service, perhaps the parents of the children at the school and the people who run the school should consider showing a bit of Christian charity when it comes to the people who scrubbed the floors, clean their toilets, and tidy up after their children on a daily basis. Simply looking at this issue from a safety perspective, it's a good idea to have people with a solid moral foundation working around our children. As a parent, I would have far greater peace of mind knowing that the janitorial workers at my child's school were composed of Haitian mothers, as opposed to God knows what they'll be replaced with by the next contractor. I imagine that the people who made the decision to get rid of these workers won't appreciate how good they had it until these workers are gone.

    Re: Weekend Open Thread (none / 0) (#18)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Aug 26, 2006 at 08:55:49 PM EST
    roy - My statement was quite simple. Much of the news they are informed with is fake. Now, perhaps you are having an off night, but my previous opinion of you was that you are very capable of seeing that these "fake" pictures very much influence the opinions of the "rest of the world" the Prof writes of. And I repeat my point. No one has challenged my fact that much of what has passed for "news" has been faked. And outside of you, no one has criticized it.

    Re: Weekend Open Thread (none / 0) (#19)
    by Aaron on Sat Aug 26, 2006 at 08:59:03 PM EST
    More discrimination alive and well in America. A Louisiana bus driver making Black children sit at the back of the bus. Red River Parish parents upset with handling of bus incident [Iva Richmond's children, as well as neighbor Janice Williams' four children, were directed to the back of a school bus last week by a white bus driver. "It's not right for them to have to go to the back of the bus," Brevell said. "Those days are over." "My daughter came home the first day and said 'Momma, the bus driver made us get out of our seats and to let the white kids sit down.' I said she shouldn't have done that because the seats were not assigned at that time," Janice Williams said. "Davis called her to apologize." "Davis even made all of the black children get off of the bus so that the white children could be seated in their assigned seats first, Jarvonica Williams claims."]

    Re: Weekend Open Thread (none / 0) (#20)
    by Aaron on Sat Aug 26, 2006 at 09:13:02 PM EST
    Here's a look at what's happening in Lebanon from someone who's living it. Beirut live

    Re: Weekend Open Thread (none / 0) (#21)
    by Che's Lounge on Sat Aug 26, 2006 at 10:59:58 PM EST
    Jim, I agree that much of the news we get is biased. Your wholesale acceptance of the claims of FABRICATION in that link clearly shows your agenda. They concentrated on accusations of staging while they ignore the corpses lying about. Did the press get a prior notice that this dead body was going to be there at that time? The only staging was some guy directing the cameras to show a corpse. That's not staging. Who cares if the stretcher bearers left the camera view. You (and the article) haven't a clue what was happening there. Green Helmet was trying to get the message out that people were being bombed to pieces. Is that a new technique? No. You want to see some staging? Look inward to your own country. Stop insulting us by linking this fluff.

    Re: Weekend Open Thread (none / 0) (#22)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Aug 26, 2006 at 11:02:12 PM EST
    Scary. Check out the About us link.

    Re: Weekend Open Thread (none / 0) (#23)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Aug 26, 2006 at 11:15:44 PM EST
    I cannot but say, no child should have it's development impaired by this ghastly example of parental brainwashing.

    Re: Weekend Open Thread (none / 0) (#24)
    by Sumner on Sun Aug 27, 2006 at 12:51:28 AM EST
    I have been off working on weighing in with the Ninth Circuit re Booker. Tuning into them I have just learned, the Ninth Circuit has held that a civil parking violation provides reasonable suspicion under Whren v. US, 517 U.S. 806 (1996) for grounds for additional police investigation and criminal violations, (drugs, guns, etc.); (giving more impetus to feeding meters, generating badly needed revenue, and discouraging scofflaws). Back to my purview, and for those keeping up, while I stated before that to terminate the fight for "desire" would most surely demonstrate my position (but in a disastrous way), doesn't mean I'm willing to risk cataclysmic results simply to make such a point. So in response to a question posed by zaitzeff in his August 21, 2006 post that mentioned Lewis Carroll, this follow-up seemed more appropriate to an Open Thread. 'A knot!' said Alice, already to make herself useful, and looking anxiously about her. 'Oh, do let me help to undo it!' -- Alice's Adventures in Wonderland 'I engage with the Snark -- every night after dark -- In a dreamy delirious fight: I serve it with greens in those shadowy scenes, and I use it for striking a light.' -- The Hunting of the Snark Charles Lutwidge Dodgson aka Lewis Carroll (1832-1898) is probably best known for authoring the timeless children's book classics Alice in Wonderland and Through the Looking-Glass. Carroll preferred the company of little girls. His closest friendship was with Alice Liddell, "his confidante and muse" up until her arrival at puberty. 'Oh, please mind what you're doing!' cried Alice, jumping up and down in an agony of terror. 'Oh, there goes his precious nose!' as an unusually large saucepan flew close by it, and very nearly carried it off. 'If everybody minded their own business' the Duchess said, in a hoarse growl, 'the world would go round a deal faster than it does.' -- Alice's Adventures in Wonderland Carroll obtained his own new camera in order to assist his friend, Reginald Southey, to take photographs of the Christ Church Cathedral, Oxford. Alice was the daughter of Henry George Liddell, a philology professor and Dean at Christ Church College. On June 3, 1856, Carroll took what was to be the first of many photographs of Alice and other children. Sometimes photographs were taken of his young friends in states of little or no dress. Some of these nudes and partial nudes are compiled with many of his other Victorian photographs in Lewis Carroll - Reflections in the Mirror, by Morton N. Cohen. According to Cohen, the little girls loved it. Carroll's love for little girls - especially his friendship with Alice - inspired his lifelong works. In addition to books, poems and stories, Lewis Carroll authored numerous games and puzzles, all in order to better amuse his devoted little friends. Charles L. Dodgson's little girl nude photos (that I have seen) include of: Evelyn Maud Hatch, surviving nude photos from 1879; Beatrice Sheward Hatch, nude photo from 1873; nudes of Annie Henderson and Frances Henderson, from 1860. I have copies of hundreds of both simple and elaborate mathematical puzzles by Carroll. It would take an immense amount of time to solve them all (or even a few). I also have copies of his handwriting and it looks perfectly fine to me.

    Re: Weekend Open Thread (none / 0) (#25)
    by john horse on Sun Aug 27, 2006 at 05:46:07 AM EST
    GOP Congressman Chris Shays announced recently that he no longer supports Bush on Iraq and now favors a timetable. He joins a growing number of people who were supporters of the Iraq invasion and war but have since reevaluated their positions and now think the war was a mistake and/or support a timetable for withdrawal. Here is the Powell Doctrine's criteria for using military force: only as a last resort, with a well-defined national purpose, with strong public support, and once decided, should be executed with overwhelming force and have a clear exit strategy. Based on the criteria in the Powell Doctrine, the Iraq war is not sustainable.

    Re: Weekend Open Thread (none / 0) (#26)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Aug 27, 2006 at 07:22:22 AM EST
    John Horse - Well, we have his strategy, which ends in a strategy. The now famous exit strategy which caps, I guess, the completion of the other strategies that is part of the overall strategy. But wait! The strategy to exit can't be used because the second strategy is taking longer than estimated, so we need a strategy to stay longer. But wait! The strategy to leave actually wasn't a strategy, but a time table, so we didn't need the exit strategy to start with. When war starts the only strategy is to win.

    Re: Weekend Open Thread (none / 0) (#27)
    by roy on Sun Aug 27, 2006 at 08:41:31 AM EST
    Jim, You're so close to having a good point, but you're being slippery. You'll gladly cite the MSM when they run stories which support your side of an argument. But when prof takes a MSM-fueled swing at Bush & Friends, well, by gum, that MSM has no credibility. So they have credibility when they say things you like, and not when they don't. This is, IMHO, disconfirmation biase It's lousy arguing, and you shouldn't be surprised that it evokes lousy counter-arguments. If you don't think torture is as widespread as the MSM makes it seem, find us some evidence that they report a lot of fake torture stories. If you can't find that, maybe you're holding on to your beliefs a little too tightly.

    Re: Weekend Open Thread (none / 0) (#28)
    by Bill Arnett on Sun Aug 27, 2006 at 09:32:41 AM EST
    ppj- re: propaganda from Raw Story 2-13-06, found in google with: bush+propaganda+amount spent (since you clearly, from past comments, do not know how to use a search engine. The Administration spent $1.6 billion on contracts with advertising agencies ($1.4 billion), public relations firms ($197 million), and media organizations and individual members of the media ($15 million). The Department of Defense spent the most on media contracts, with contracts worth $1.1 billion. The Department of Health and Human Services spent more than $300 million on these contracts, the Department of Treasury spent $152 million, and the Department of Homeland Security spent $24 million during this period. --- So, ppj, you can easily see that, once again, when you accuse desertswine of believing propaganda, it simply shows that YOU have bought all the propaganda paid for by the U.S. Government. And you denigrate his opinion by linking to clearly biased and inaccurate, bigoted, homophobic, xenophobic, anti-gay, and "let's kill 'em all" sites? You can bet that Lebanon spent nowhere near $1.6-BILLION dollars for propaganda, as bush does every year. And get off the "links" trip. Many of us (me included) do not know how to enter a link, despite the efforts of fellow TLers (thanx anyway edger and Sailor) to educate as to how to do so. But again, when a person has stated the TRUTH, not having a citation makes it no less true; it just gives you a cheap, easy way to blow off someone's comments. Why don't YOU reprint the text that proves someone inaccurate or untrue instead of using this red herring to try and discredit people in the most ridiculous and lazy way possible? And try to cite reputable sources instead of rightwing nutjob sites for which you seem to have such a predilection.

    Re: Weekend Open Thread (none / 0) (#29)
    by Bill Arnett on Sun Aug 27, 2006 at 09:49:54 AM EST
    Jondee- One of the findings of the Nuremberg Trials that proves bush a war criminal:  "The Nuremberg Tribunal called the waging of aggressive war "essentially an evil thing ... to initiate a war of aggression ... is not only an international crime; it is the supreme international crime differing only from other war crimes in that it contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole." But, aw gee, I didn't include a cite, so ppj will tell you that this must be false, as a person can't possibly be telling the truth without a cite. Puh-le-e-e-e-z.

    Re: Weekend Open Thread (none / 0) (#30)
    by Che's Lounge on Sun Aug 27, 2006 at 10:05:58 AM EST
    Jim, No one has challenged my fact that much of what has passed for "news" has been faked. I challenged your link (at your cajoling) and you ran away. That's becomming your MO. Please acknowledge. I say your link is also propaganda.

    Re: Weekend Open Thread (none / 0) (#31)
    by dutchfox on Sun Aug 27, 2006 at 10:10:23 AM EST
    Liberal politics in a nutshell: I found a post card inserted in the current issue of The Nation magazine to mail back to the magazine as part of a gift subscription promo.
    DOs AND DON'Ts for GIVING THE NATION Don't give it to Neighbors with the new Hummer. Do give it to Neighbors with the new Prius.
    Precisely the opposite message that Jesus gave to St Paul: It's not what you do that makes you a good person, it's what you consume.

    Re: Weekend Open Thread (none / 0) (#32)
    by Bill Arnett on Sun Aug 27, 2006 at 10:12:39 AM EST
    Can anyone find a citation that proves that a person's silence regarding an issue must mean that the person AGREES WITH and ACCEPTS the premise offered? ppj: "Thanks for confirming that you are aware of what the media did in Lebanon. And thanks, by your silence, of demonstrating your approval." Oh, wait! I get it! Every-time someone anywhere, at any time, even without ppj's knowledge, makes a statement that he does not address, it means that PPJ IS IN COMPLETE AGREEMENT! WOW! What a concept!
    How, by your silence on 99.9999999999999999999% to the 50th or 60th power of expressed thoughts in the world, even those in foreign languages you may not understand, can you hold so many positions at once? Yeah, your silence is tacit agreement with any/all statements, all right, just as you accuse others of the same offense. Is it within you to understand that some "truths are self-evident" and do not require ratification from you or anyone else?

    Re: Weekend Open Thread (none / 0) (#33)
    by Sumner on Sun Aug 27, 2006 at 12:35:41 PM EST
    Ratification or reification? Nil terribile nisi ipse timor. Translation: Nothing is terrible except fear itself. -- Francis Bacon Ne peut-on pas remonter jusqu'à ces anciens scélérats, fondateurs illustres de la superstition et du fanatisme, qui, les premiers, ont pris le couteau sur l'autel pour faire des victimes de ceux qui refusaient d'etre leurs disciples? Translation: May we not return to those scoundrels of old, the illustrious founders of superstition and fanaticism, who first took the knife from the altar to make victims of those who refused to be their disciples? -- Voltaire "The basis of a democratic state is liberty." -- Aristotle "Liber" is another Latin name for Bacchus, God of Orgy, Wine and Merriment. Also, liber, the inner bark of a tree; thus, material on which to write. "ty", is the suffix of abstract nouns. Hence, liberty, free in pursuit of happiness and in thought or expression. As a police-state word: not in jail. Cf. Indulgence The greatest vicissitude of things amongst men is the vicissitude of sects and religions. [And I would add, Politics.] Of Vicissitude of Things -- Francis Bacon

    Re: Weekend Open Thread (none / 0) (#34)
    by Sumner on Sun Aug 27, 2006 at 02:46:54 PM EST
    Cf. Barger | today.

    Re: Weekend Open Thread (none / 0) (#35)
    by john horse on Sun Aug 27, 2006 at 03:49:11 PM EST
    Why are we in Iraq? Bush says that we are there because the Iraqi people want us to be there but that is just a lie. Currently in Iraq 91.7% of Iraqis do not support our presense. Even a majority of Kurds now oppose our presense. We have become an occupying army in a country that doesn't want us there. Yet there are still those who think that this war is winnable (whatever "winnable" means). To me it comes down to this. No matter what we think may occur in Iraq if we were to withdraw, it is still their country. Nobody knows the pros and cons of our presense better than they do. If they don't want us there, we should leave.

    Re: Weekend Open Thread (none / 0) (#36)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Aug 27, 2006 at 05:41:18 PM EST
    Bill - You seem a bit irrational today. My comment was really simple. The media used fake photos to pain a fake picture in Lebanon. If you think that is good then you have lost all touch with reality. Fake is fake, Bill. It is just that simple. roy - If you can show the MSM is faking it to Bush's advantage, let's see it. Che - Did I miss you? Bless'em heart, I know you crave attention. My heart felt apologies. It must have gotten tangled up with Sumner's appeal to the ninth or something.. See my reply to Bill.

    Re: Weekend Open Thread (none / 0) (#37)
    by soccerdad on Sun Aug 27, 2006 at 05:52:19 PM EST
    I am unaware of any fake pictures. there were 2 that were altered but not in a way that changed their message. The right wing has floated many theories but no proof that pictures were faked. This of course is all self-seving crap whose only purpose is to try any convince everyone that the Israelis didn't really inflict that much damaged. Only those OD on the kool aid are even remotely believing it. So as usual, ppj, you're made up crap isn't flying around here. But I suppose you are so busy planing your Muslim genocide party that you dont have time to think. You are one disgusting excuse for a semi-human being

    Re: Weekend Open Thread (none / 0) (#38)
    by Dadler on Sun Aug 27, 2006 at 06:44:17 PM EST
    My mother just returned from three weeks in Egypt -- wearing long sleeves in 115 degree heat to be "respectful" -- and reports that the Lebanese officials she had the opportunity to meet with were somber but assured in their refrain "Lebanon will rebuild, we will always rebuild, what else can we do?" Also, she was envious of the Presbyterian women who could wear short sleeves.

    Re: Weekend Open Thread (none / 0) (#39)
    by jondee on Sun Aug 27, 2006 at 07:06:24 PM EST
    Faking it to Bush's advantage.. I was going to say Mission Accomplished, but an unimpeachable source (that knows a fake when he see's one), has already confirmed that it refered merely to a successful ocean rendezvous.

    Re: Weekend Open Thread (none / 0) (#40)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Aug 27, 2006 at 09:10:59 PM EST
    Photo anyone?

    Re: Weekend Open Thread (none / 0) (#41)
    by Bill Arnett on Sun Aug 27, 2006 at 10:54:31 PM EST
    Me, irrational? Why, coming from you ppj, I'm flattered, and I graciously accept your compliment. Did everybody notice that ppj did not address the issue of proven U.S. Gov't propaganda? That's proof positive of ppj's agreement. By his silence and neglect to respond to ANY of the points of my comment, HE OBVIOUSLY AGREES WITH ME! So everyone here now knows where you stand on every issue you duck and dive on, for by your silence you exhibit agreement, making you even more transparent (and significantly less significant) then ever before. soccerdad nailed it: two pictures taken from a great distance to show the damage to Beirut were slightly altered. There have been allegations made - none taken seriously or ever proven - of staged photos showing dead women and children killed by Israeli bombs that EVEN THE ISRAELI'S ACKNOWLEDGE AS TRUE, but that's just not good enough for some people, eh, ppj? And although a fake is a fake, when the fakers faking faking admit that the fakes they are faking are not fakes, then your illogic falls flat and seems to be faked strictly for the sake of faking it. Clear now, ppj? There are advantages to being irrational you know. Without faking it.

    Re: Weekend Open Thread (none / 0) (#42)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Aug 28, 2006 at 06:46:24 AM EST
    PPJ demonstrates his 'rationality' here.

    Weekend Open Thread | 41 comments (41 topical)