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Terror Suspects Arraigned in London

By TChris, Section Terror Trials
Posted on Tue Aug 22, 2006 at 09:22:12 AM EST
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by TChris

Eleven individuals who were arrested for plotting to blow up airplanes were arraigned today in a British court. Eight are charged with conspiracy to commit murder and something called "preparing acts of terrorism." They will be held in custody until they appear at the Old Bailey, London's criminal court, on Sept. 4. Two of the three who face lesser charges will return to court on August 29, while the last defendant will return to court on September 19.

The fate of the remaining arrestees is less clear.

Of the 12 detainees who have not yet been charged, one, a woman who was not identified, is to be freed, authorities said. The rest are being held under British counterterrorism laws that allow up to 28 days of detention without charges, said Susan Hemming, a lawyer from the Crown Prosecution Service. ...

[Prosecutor] Hemming said the authorities had not decided whether to seek the further detention of any of the suspects still being held without charge. Under counterterrorism laws, the authorities must apply to a High Court judge by Wednesday to detain them for another seven days.

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    Terror Suspects Arraigned in London | 22 comments (22 topical)
    Re: Terror Suspects Arraigned in London (none / 0) (#1)
    by Steven Sanderson on Tue Aug 22, 2006 at 10:20:55 AM EST
    Eight are charged with conspiracy to commit murder and something called "preparing acts of terrorism."
    Both the Brits and the Yanks are getting adept at bolstering Blair and Bush's sagging tough-on-terror reputations through the use of make-it-up-as-you-go style prosecutions.

    Re: Terror Suspects Arraigned in London (none / 0) (#2)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Tue Aug 22, 2006 at 10:58:28 AM EST
    Both the Brits and the Yanks are getting adept at bolstering Blair and Bush's sagging tough-on-terror reputations through the use of make-it-up-as-you-go style prosecutions. Just like the made up attack on 9/11 that Bush cooked up with Haliburton no doubt.

    Re: Terror Suspects Arraigned in London (none / 0) (#3)
    by Edger on Tue Aug 22, 2006 at 11:06:40 AM EST
    The Reuters article states:
    Eight have been charged with conspiracy to murder and with plotting to detonate homemade explosives on planes after smuggling the components on board
    I have heard nor read any reports about them being on board planes. All reports I've heard have them arrested prior to getting on planes.

    Re: Terror Suspects Arraigned in London (none / 0) (#4)
    by roy on Tue Aug 22, 2006 at 11:52:05 AM EST
    edger, I don't read that as claiming they were ever on board. Only that they allegedly conspired to do such-and-such on board. The conspiracy precedes the act.

    Re: Terror Suspects Arraigned in London (none / 0) (#5)
    by Gabriel Malor on Tue Aug 22, 2006 at 11:53:14 AM EST
    Edger, the detonation was intended to occur after smuggling the components on board. It is possible, but incorrect, to read the sentence as saying that the "Eight have been charged... after smuggling the components on board.

    Re: Terror Suspects Arraigned in London (none / 0) (#6)
    by Edger on Tue Aug 22, 2006 at 12:18:03 PM EST
    Gabriel, I hope you're right, but I wonder how many will misinterpret it, and if misinterpretation is the intention. I haven't yet looked at articles from other sources.

    Re: Terror Suspects Arraigned in London (none / 0) (#8)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Aug 22, 2006 at 04:26:35 PM EST
    the references by british authorities to martyrdom videos include no explanation that it was the arrested persons who made the videos and that any of them were the featured martyrs-to-be. ejmurphy

    Re: Terror Suspects Arraigned in London (none / 0) (#9)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Aug 22, 2006 at 04:50:48 PM EST
    the references by british authorities to martyrdom videos include no explanation that it was the arrested persons who made the videos and that any of them were the featured martyrs-to-be. ejmurphy

    Re: Terror Suspects Arraigned in London (none / 0) (#10)
    by Gabriel Malor on Tue Aug 22, 2006 at 05:00:45 PM EST
    ejmurphy, Here's a report from MSNBC that seems to indicate that "some" of the martyr videos were created by "some" of the suspects. I quote,
    Meanwhile, several martyr videos were reportedly discovered on at least six laptops owned by some of those being questioned in the foiled plot.
    CNN has some more on it which can be found by searching their site for the headline "UK cops find martyr tapes". [I don't include the link for fear the moderation will eat my comment.] From that article:
    Several martyr videos were reportedly discovered on at least six laptops owned by some of the 23 suspects being questioned in the foiled terror plot to bomb as many as 10 jetliners bound for the United States.
    Just take a look around ejmurphy. It's out there.

    Re: Terror Suspects Arraigned in London (none / 0) (#11)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Aug 22, 2006 at 06:06:14 PM EST
    oldtree - It isn't the science, but the conspiracy, the planning, the attempt that counts.

    Re: Terror Suspects Arraigned in London (none / 0) (#12)
    by roy on Tue Aug 22, 2006 at 06:21:20 PM EST
    Jim, I'm all for punishing conspirators, but I'd rather not ban an entire phase of matter and lose another hour of my life getting through security every time I fly if the science says their clever plan just couldn't work. We've got to weigh costs and benefits. The cost of delaying each of the several zillion(*) airline passengers even a little bit each is pretty hefty. Making it harder for terrorists to attempt something at which it's nearly impossible to succeed isn't much of a benefit. (*)I couldn't find the real number. It might be 2 million per day.

    Re: Terror Suspects Arraigned in London (none / 0) (#13)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Aug 22, 2006 at 06:30:05 PM EST
    See the considered analysis below, linked to the following website, and posted on a znet blog comment recently: http://www.craigmurray.co.uk/archives/2006/08/the_uk_terror_p.html August 14, 2006 The UK Terror plot: what's really going on? I have been reading very carefully through all the Sunday newspapers to try and analyse the truth from all the scores of pages claiming to detail the so-called bomb plot. Unlike the great herd of so-called security experts doing the media analysis, I have the advantage of having had the very highest security clearances myself, having done a huge amount of professional intelligence analysis, and having been inside the spin machine. So this, I believe, is the true story. None of the alleged terrorists had made a bomb. None had bought a plane ticket. Many did not even have passports, which given the efficiency of the UK Passport Agency would mean they couldn't be a plane bomber for quite some time. In the absence of bombs and airline tickets, and in many cases passports, it could be pretty difficult to convince a jury beyond reasonable doubt that individuals intended to go through with suicide bombings, whatever rash stuff they may have bragged in internet chat rooms. What is more, many of those arrested had been under surveillance for over a year - like thousands of other British Muslims. And not just Muslims. Like me. Nothing from that surveillance had indicated the need for early arrests. Then an interrogation in Pakistan revealed the details of this amazing plot to blow up multiple planes - which, rather extraordinarily, had not turned up in a year of surveillance. Of course, the interrogators of the Pakistani dictator have their ways of making people sing like canaries. As I witnessed in Uzbekistan, you can get the most extraordinary information this way. Trouble is it always tends to give the interrogators all they might want, and more, in a desperate effort to stop or avert torture. What it doesn't give is the truth. The gentleman being "interrogated" had fled the UK after being wanted for questioning over the murder of his uncle some years ago. That might be felt to cast some doubt on his reliability. It might also be felt that factors other than political ones might be at play within these relationships. Much is also being made of large transfers of money outside the formal economy. Not in fact too unusual in the British Muslim community, but if this activity is criminal, there are many possibilities that have nothing to do with terrorism. We then have the extraordinary question of Bush and Blair discussing the possible arrests over the weekend. Why? I think the answer to that is plain. Both in desperate domestic political trouble, they longed for "Another 9/11". The intelligence from Pakistan, however dodgy, gave them a new 9/11 they could sell to the media. The media has bought, wholesale, all the rubbish they have been shovelled. We then have the appalling political propaganda of John Reid, Home Secretary, making a speech warning us all of the dreadful evil threatening us and complaining that "Some people don't get" the need to abandon all our traditional liberties. He then went on, according to his own propaganda machine, to stay up all night and minutely direct the arrests. There could be no clearer evidence that our Police are now just a political tool. Like all the best nasty regimes, the knock on the door came in the middle of the night, at 2.30am. Those arrested included a mother with a six week old baby. For those who don't know, it is worth introducing Reid. A hardened Stalinist with a long term reputation for personal violence, at Stirling Univeristy he was the Communist Party's "Enforcer", (in days when the Communist Party ran Stirling University Students' Union, which it should not be forgotten was a business with a very substantial cash turnover). Reid was sent to beat up those who deviated from the Party line. We will now never know if any of those arrested would have gone on to make a bomb or buy a plane ticket. Most of them do not fit the "Loner" profile you would expect - a tiny percentage of suicide bombers have happy marriages and young children. As they were all under surveillance, and certainly would have been on airport watch lists, there could have been little danger in letting them proceed closer to maturity - that is certainly what we would have done with the IRA. In all of this, the one thing of which I am certain is that the timing is deeply political. This is more propaganda than plot. Of the over one thousand British Muslims arrested under anti-terrorist legislation, only twelve per cent are ever charged with anything. That is simply harrassment of Muslims on an appalling scale. Of those charged, 80% are acquitted. Most of the very few - just over two per cent of arrests - who are convicted, are not convicted of anything to do terrorism, but of some minor offence the Police happened upon while trawling through the wreck of the lives they had shattered. Be sceptical. Be very, very sceptical."

    Re: Terror Suspects Arraigned in London (none / 0) (#14)
    by Edger on Tue Aug 22, 2006 at 06:55:27 PM EST
    oldtree - good points. All the conspiracy, planning, attempts and wishful thinking on the part of people looking for a justification, any justification, no matter how weak and deluded, add up to zero if what is claimed they were planning on doing is not possible.

    Re: Terror Suspects Arraigned in London (none / 0) (#15)
    by Edger on Tue Aug 22, 2006 at 06:57:08 PM EST
    War On Toiletries, indeed. And starting to look full of what toilets are usually full of.

    Re: Terror Suspects Arraigned in London (none / 0) (#16)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Aug 22, 2006 at 07:42:29 PM EST
    KevinYearWood writes:
    which given the efficiency of the UK Passport Agency would mean they couldn't be a plane bomber for quite some time.
    I guess it would be a "blow me up now, or blow me up later kind of thing." You write:
    Be sceptical. Be very, very sceptical."
    I am. Of you.

    Re: Terror Suspects Arraigned in London (none / 0) (#17)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Aug 22, 2006 at 07:49:13 PM EST
    roy - The price of delaying 2 million passengers, $4,000,000. Saving my scrawny behind from being blown through an aircraft bulkhead at 40,000 feet, priceless. roy, kidding aside, the issue isn't the science, but the attempt. If you let'em try long enough, something will work.

    Re: Terror Suspects Arraigned in London (none / 0) (#18)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Aug 22, 2006 at 07:51:12 PM EST
    kevinYearwood writes:
    I have the advantage of having had the very highest security clearances myself, having done a huge amount of professional intelligence analysis, and having been inside the spin machine.
    Really? Could you share some specifics?

    Re: Terror Suspects Arraigned in London (none / 0) (#19)
    by Sailor on Tue Aug 22, 2006 at 08:24:47 PM EST
    uhhh, bush cut money for detecting liquid explosives ... I guess he doesn't agree ppj's life is precious.

    Re: Terror Suspects Arraigned in London (none / 0) (#20)
    by roy on Tue Aug 22, 2006 at 08:28:01 PM EST
    The price of delaying 2 million passengers, $4,000,000.
    Prior to the liquid and gel ban, the TSA advised us to show up to the airport 2 hours early. Now they say three. So our reaction to a scientifically implausible threat is 2 million wasted hours per day. That's about 3 lifetimes per day. Not cheap.
    Saving my scrawny behind from being blown through an aircraft bulkhead at 40,000 feet, priceless.
    That kind of all-or-nothing comparison doesn't fit here. We're talking about reducing the chance of your behind being blown from "near zero" to "very slightly nearer zero". At a cost of over 1,000 lifetimes waiting in line per year.
    If you let'em try long enough, something will work.
    That's close enough to true that I won't nitpick. Not interesting. Heck, you could blow up an airplane with an eyelash if a few of its electrons happened to blip into existance at just the right place via electron tunneling. It'd work eventually. My point is that this War on Terror is supposed to be us against a major, organized theat, capable of launching 9-11 and 7-7 scale attacks. Treating bumbling doofuses as an extension of that major threat is misleading conflation. It confuses the issue. It makes us more afraid than it is rational to be. It drives us to make expensive sacrifices for little gain.

    Re: Terror Suspects Arraigned in London (none / 0) (#21)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Aug 23, 2006 at 02:09:17 AM EST
    Gabriel Malor:
    Here's a report from MSNBC that seems to indicate that "some" of the martyr videos were created by "some" of the suspects. I quote: "Meanwhile, several martyr videos were reportedly discovered on at least six laptops owned by some of those being questioned in the foiled plot".
    Come on! Do you know anything about how your computer works? Do you really think that if a copy of a video is found on your laptop, that is evidence you created it?! It doesn't work that way. The last time you went to the movies, did you start claiming you were Quentin Tarantino? No! Similarly, downloading and watching (browsing) something online and creating (authoring) content -- videos or anything else -- are not equivalent. Although everything you look at in your browser might be found on your computer later, that does not imply that you authored any of it yourself.

    Re: Terror Suspects Arraigned in London (none / 0) (#22)
    by Gabriel Malor on Wed Aug 23, 2006 at 09:35:38 AM EST
    Cymro, I'm going to assume that Scotland Yard is aware of the potential difficulties you raise with identifying the source of the videos. Incidentally, and without having actually seen the videos in question, I'm going to assume that if a particular suspect actually appears in a martyr video (that's usually what happens and usually why you refer to a video as particular to an individual terrorist) then they probably had a hand in creating it. Just a thought. As I said, I'm sure Scotland Yard has its investigative experts on the case.

    Re: Terror Suspects Arraigned in London (none / 0) (#25)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Aug 23, 2006 at 07:31:56 PM EST
    I can never tell if PPJ is sincere, or if he is merely using whatever topic is at hand as an excuse to b**** and moan about the "anti-war Left"

    Terror Suspects Arraigned in London | 22 comments (22 topical)