Continuing the discussion on Israel, Lebanon, Hezbollah and the U.S. from here and here.
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I got this from the CNI. I agree Please let Congress know that Israel's Total War on Lebanon (they hit the Saint Therese Hospital today) is unacceptable. Israel's attacks on innocent civilians and civilian infrastructure in Gaza and Lebanon are a violation of U.S. law, specifically the U.S. Arms Export Control Act and the U.S. Foreign Assistance Act. The U.S. Arms Export Control Act restricts the use of U.S. weapons to legitimate self-defense and internal policing; U.S. weapons cannot be used to attack civilians in offensive operations. The U.S. Foreign Assistance Act prohibits U.S. aid of any kind to a country with a pattern of gross human rights violations.
Israel's attacks on innocent civilians and civilian infrastructure in Gaza and Lebanon are a violation of U.S. law, specifically the U.S. Arms Export Control Act and the U.S. Foreign Assistance Act. The U.S. Arms Export Control Act restricts the use of U.S. weapons to legitimate self-defense and internal policing; U.S. weapons cannot be used to attack civilians in offensive operations. The U.S. Foreign Assistance Act prohibits U.S. aid of any kind to a country with a pattern of gross human rights violations.
The speech given by New York's Democratic Senator Hillary Clinton to a rally staged by Zionist organizations Monday across from the United Nations headquarters in Manhattan amounted to a celebration of massacres and war crimes. Her remarks left no doubt that a vote for Clinton in November is a vote not only to continue the US war in Iraq, but to expand and intensify the slaughter throughout the region.
On Tuesday, the seventh day of Israel's air war on Lebanon, with some 250 civilians killed and much of the country's infrastructure destroyed, President George Bush issued yet another threat against Syria.
Where is your condemnation of Hezbollah?
Bombing Dairy Farms, what the f*ck?
You can (and I do) support Israel and still think they've gone off the deep end.
Evacuation Is a Mouse-Click Away more than 23,000 -- are being told to sit tight as the Israeli bombing continues, wait by their phones for a call, and check the embassy Web site for more information. So says undersecretary of state Nicholas Burns: "We have an open line to all American citizens. We're in touch with them by Web site." Yes, Burns assured CNN, "[The evacuation is] very well thought out." Heckuva job, Condi?
My men don't surrender. I don't want to hear of any soldier under my command being captured unless he has been hit. Even if you are hit, you can still fight back.
But it's a tragedy of immense proportions, because it's also tearing apart a country. In the last 24 hours we found the Israelis have turned to attacking a milk factory, Liban Lait -- it's actually the producers of milk I drink every morning in my tea -- a paper box factory, for heaven's sakes, hardly a terrorist target... The Israelis today even attacked the factory which imports Procter & Gamble goods here. We've had an ambulance convoy, a convoy of new ambulances from the United Emirates, cross from Syria into Lebanon, got attacked from the air. It's an all-out war against the economy infrastructure of a country that was at last beginning to look modern again, after the 15 years of civil war, which cost 150,000 lives. And it's very sad to see.
I think the massacre of the innocents must obviously apply to both sides. The Israeli dead have an equal right to that claim. But the scale -- I mean, "disproportionate" is not the word for it -- the scale of the response is obscene.
Anyway, it is important to remember that the Hezbollah crossed that border against all international law. No one gave them a referendum or a vote to cross the border and kill Israelis and capture two Israelis and start off this war. But, you see, they relied upon -- they totally relied upon the cruelty of Israel's response. And Israel, as usual, obliged them. So no one will now criticize the Hezbollah in Lebanon. But it's a catastrophe, because here is a country that began to believe in itself again after the years of civil war, and now it's the same old story. The country is being vandalized and smashed up by a country which says it believes in purity of arms. And these civilian deaths, I don't believe that they're by chance. I don't believe it was a mistake when they hit that army barracks of logistic soldiers, who are trying to repair their own country, which they have every right to do.
No...speaking out against only Israel doing it while giving Hezbollah a pass gets you labeled as a terrorist supporter!
Their response is out of proportion because they have targeted civilians and the infrastructure necessary for a modern and civil society in Lebanon
The "World" keeps sustaining this conflict because they don't want to deal with the reality of militant Islam or the reality that most Arabs want every Jew in Isreal gone or dead. They teach hate to their children and propetuate this conflict. (Slado)
When involved in war you should use all force necessary to allow you to win. (PPJ)
Whatever chance there may have been for peace is gone now. We have to be realistic. The next generation of Muslims will despise us and everything we stand for. No capital or city will be safe. The US and Israel are sowing dragon's teeth throughout the Middle East and their bloody harvest will come in the decades ahead. Cheney was right, this war could last 50 years and not end in our lifetime. Lebanon was the last straw. It proves that everything Bin Laden said was true: "They have come to take your land and your resources; they have come to shame your women and disgrace your culture; they have come to humiliate you in front of your children and heap ignominy on your religion." Where was he wrong? Author and writer Pepe Escobar said it best: "The effect of the Israeli bombing barrage will be to draw newer, thicker waves of moderate Muslims toward political-and radical-Islam. The perception in the Arab street- as well as for most of the world's 1.4 billion Muslims-has been reinforced: the U.S./Israel axis seems to hold a license to kill Arabs with impunity." (Pepe Escobar, "Leviathan Run Amok" Asia Times)
But what is at stake here is not proportionality or the issue of self-defence, but symmetry and equivalence. Israel is staking a claim to the exclusive use of force as an instrument of policy and punishment, and is seeking to deny any opposing state or non-state actor a similar right. It is also largely succeeding in portraying its own "right to self-defence" as beyond question, while denying anyone else the same. And the international community is effectively endorsing Israel's stance on both counts. From an Arab point of view this cannot be right. There is no reason in the world why Israel should be able to enter Arab sovereign soil to occupy, destroy, kidnap and eliminate its perceived foes - repeatedly, with impunity and without restraint - while the Arab side cannot do the same. And if the Arab states are unable or unwilling to do so then the job should fall to those who can.
To politicize what is beyond doubt a personal family tragedy is despicable. You should be ashamed of your actions.
Actually they have been very restrained. They have had nukes for years and haven't used them.
You think Israel came up with all the precision targets in Lebanon in a matter of hours after the soldiers were kidnapped? Bogus.
Lets be clear about something. The Lebonese citizens are not innocent
... Whatever the full motivations of Hamas, and whether Syria and Iran are indirectly involved, the reality is that what is happening in Lebanon is beginning to evolve into a proxy war between the United States and Iran. ...
The IDF now claims to have demolished up to half of Hizbollah's paramilitary capabilities (which include a stockpile of perhaps 12,000 rockets). That is largely propaganda for domestic consumption and hardly meshes with Hizbollah's continuing ability to launch numerous missiles each day, amounting to nearly a thousand in the past week alone. Moreover, the group is proving itself capable of doing this in an operational environment where the Israelis have total air control, can use satellite and drone reconnaissance to observe southern Lebanon in detail, and can send in squads of special forces on lightning raids when required.
At a time like this, reports of the daily casualties, refugee flows and evacuations dominating the western news media tend to convey an underlying assumption that this is a dangerous crisis that will die down within a week or two. The very intensity of coverage implies that the dust will settle and things will return to a kind of normality. This is nonsense. What is happening is the escalation of a conflict that adds a further major war zone to Iraq and Afghanistan, with regional if not global consequences that will be felt for years to come.
In a week of vindictive bombardment, Israel has destroyed the infrastructure that Lebanon spent a decade building. Under the cover of misleading headlines, such as one that read "Israel Pounds Hezbollah Strongholds," Israel has in fact bombed towns and villages, provincial centers and Beirut.
Israel has killed Christians, Sunnis and Shiites, old and young, men and women, from the great Phoenician cities of Sidon and Tyre to more humble towns -- Chtoura and Juniyah, Damour and Naame, Jiye and Baalbek, Khiam and Batrun.
It has wrecked roads, bridges, a lighthouse, ports, tunnels, electrical pylons, water mains, fuel depots, gas stations, power plants, houses, shops, schools - and even a milk factory. It has repeatedly blasted the international airport that was the symbol of Lebanon's rebirth from 15 years of war.
Where, when or if Lebanon will ever get the funding to rebuild what Israel has smashed remain open questions. When Israel finally relents, it will leave Lebanon without a functioning infrastructure - and the lives of nearly 4 million people altered beyond recognition.
That, of course, is explicitly the point of this outrage. Israel's army chief bragged that he would set Lebanon back "20 years." That is what is happening - as a silent world watches.
Posted by JimakaPPJ July 19, 2006 08:09 PM Peaches writes: Their response is out of proportion because they have targeted civilians and the infrastructure necessary for a modern and civil society in Lebanon Of course they have. That's where the terrorist are hiding. How else do you propose they attack them? Of course they have. That's where the terrorist are hiding. How else do you propose they attack them?
Peaches writes: Their response is out of proportion because they have targeted civilians and the infrastructure necessary for a modern and civil society in Lebanon Of course they have. That's where the terrorist are hiding. How else do you propose they attack them?
But mostly, because I can't stand that bs that Israel is only killing civilains by accident. That Israel would not have to kill civilains if Hezbellah did not hide amongst them.
but for you a war means you must win at all costs and civilain casualties are a necessary part of winning the war.
Pressure by Lebenon, Europe, the US and other Western Nations could have been brought against Hezbellah, Syria, and Iran for this violation of international law.
On a more exact point, where have these people been for the last 6 years while Hezbellah took over Southern Lebanon?
Ohio Republican Sen. George Voinovich, a member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee who opposed Bolton's nomination a year ago, said on Thursday he would now support him for the job. "My observations are that while Bolton is not perfect, he has demonstrated his ability, especially in recent months, to work with others and follow the president's lead by working multilaterally," Voinovich said at a news conference. "Should the president choose to renominate him, I cannot imagine a worse message to send to the terrorists -- and to other nations deciding whether to engage in this effort -- than to drag out a possible renomination process or even replace the person our president has entrusted to lead our nation at the United Nations," Voinovich said.