I got this from the CNI. I agree Please let Congress know that Israel's Total War on Lebanon (they hit the Saint Therese Hospital today) is unacceptable.

Israel's attacks on innocent civilians and civilian infrastructure in Gaza and Lebanon are a violation of U.S. law, specifically the U.S. Arms Export Control Act and the U.S. Foreign Assistance Act. The U.S. Arms Export Control Act restricts the use of U.S. weapons to legitimate self-defense and internal policing; U.S. weapons cannot be used to attack civilians in offensive operations. The U.S. Foreign Assistance Act prohibits U.S. aid of any kind to a country with a pattern of gross human rights violations.

The speech given by New York's Democratic Senator Hillary Clinton to a rally staged by Zionist organizations Monday across from the United Nations headquarters in Manhattan amounted to a celebration of massacres and war crimes. Her remarks left no doubt that a vote for Clinton in November is a vote not only to continue the US war in Iraq, but to expand and intensify the slaughter throughout the region.

On Tuesday, the seventh day of Israel's air war on Lebanon, with some 250 civilians killed and much of the country's infrastructure destroyed, President George Bush issued yet another threat against Syria.

Where is your condemnation of Hezbollah?

Bombing Dairy Farms, what the f*ck?

You can (and I do) support Israel and still think they've gone off the deep end.

Evacuation Is a Mouse-Click Away more than 23,000 -- are being told to sit tight as the Israeli bombing continues, wait by their phones for a call, and check the embassy Web site for more information. So says undersecretary of state Nicholas Burns: "We have an open line to all American citizens. We're in touch with them by Web site." Yes, Burns assured CNN, "[The evacuation is] very well thought out." Heckuva job, Condi?

My men don't surrender. I don't want to hear of any soldier under my command being captured unless he has been hit. Even if you are hit, you can still fight back.

But it's a tragedy of immense proportions, because it's also tearing apart a country. In the last 24 hours we found the Israelis have turned to attacking a milk factory, Liban Lait -- it's actually the producers of milk I drink every morning in my tea -- a paper box factory, for heaven's sakes, hardly a terrorist target... The Israelis today even attacked the factory which imports Procter & Gamble goods here. We've had an ambulance convoy, a convoy of new ambulances from the United Emirates, cross from Syria into Lebanon, got attacked from the air. It's an all-out war against the economy infrastructure of a country that was at last beginning to look modern again, after the 15 years of civil war, which cost 150,000 lives. And it's very sad to see.

I think the massacre of the innocents must obviously apply to both sides. The Israeli dead have an equal right to that claim. But the scale -- I mean, "disproportionate" is not the word for it -- the scale of the response is obscene.

Anyway, it is important to remember that the Hezbollah crossed that border against all international law. No one gave them a referendum or a vote to cross the border and kill Israelis and capture two Israelis and start off this war. But, you see, they relied upon -- they totally relied upon the cruelty of Israel's response. And Israel, as usual, obliged them. So no one will now criticize the Hezbollah in Lebanon. But it's a catastrophe, because here is a country that began to believe in itself again after the years of civil war, and now it's the same old story. The country is being vandalized and smashed up by a country which says it believes in purity of arms. And these civilian deaths, I don't believe that they're by chance. I don't believe it was a mistake when they hit that army barracks of logistic soldiers, who are trying to repair their own country, which they have every right to do.

No...speaking out against only Israel doing it while giving Hezbollah a pass gets you labeled as a terrorist supporter!

Their response is out of proportion because they have targeted civilians and the infrastructure necessary for a modern and civil society in Lebanon

The "World" keeps sustaining this conflict because they don't want to deal with the reality of militant Islam or the reality that most Arabs want every Jew in Isreal gone or dead. They teach hate to their children and propetuate this conflict. (Slado)

Whatever chance there may have been for peace is gone now. We have to be realistic. The next generation of Muslims will despise us and everything we stand for. No capital or city will be safe. The US and Israel are sowing dragon's teeth throughout the Middle East and their bloody harvest will come in the decades ahead. Cheney was right, this war could last 50 years and not end in our lifetime. Lebanon was the last straw. It proves that everything Bin Laden said was true: "They have come to take your land and your resources; they have come to shame your women and disgrace your culture; they have come to humiliate you in front of your children and heap ignominy on your religion." Where was he wrong? Author and writer Pepe Escobar said it best: "The effect of the Israeli bombing barrage will be to draw newer, thicker waves of moderate Muslims toward political-and radical-Islam. The perception in the Arab street- as well as for most of the world's 1.4 billion Muslims-has been reinforced: the U.S./Israel axis seems to hold a license to kill Arabs with impunity." (Pepe Escobar, "Leviathan Run Amok" Asia Times)

But what is at stake here is not proportionality or the issue of self-defence, but symmetry and equivalence. Israel is staking a claim to the exclusive use of force as an instrument of policy and punishment, and is seeking to deny any opposing state or non-state actor a similar right. It is also largely succeeding in portraying its own "right to self-defence" as beyond question, while denying anyone else the same. And the international community is effectively endorsing Israel's stance on both counts. From an Arab point of view this cannot be right. There is no reason in the world why Israel should be able to enter Arab sovereign soil to occupy, destroy, kidnap and eliminate its perceived foes - repeatedly, with impunity and without restraint - while the Arab side cannot do the same. And if the Arab states are unable or unwilling to do so then the job should fall to those who can.

To politicize what is beyond doubt a personal family tragedy is despicable. You should be ashamed of your actions.

Actually they have been very restrained. They have had nukes for years and haven't used them.

You think Israel came up with all the precision targets in Lebanon in a matter of hours after the soldiers were kidnapped? Bogus.

Lets be clear about something. The Lebonese citizens are not innocent

... Whatever the full motivations of Hamas, and whether Syria and Iran are indirectly involved, the reality is that what is happening in Lebanon is beginning to evolve into a proxy war between the United States and Iran. ...

The IDF now claims to have demolished up to half of Hizbollah's paramilitary capabilities (which include a stockpile of perhaps 12,000 rockets). That is largely propaganda for domestic consumption and hardly meshes with Hizbollah's continuing ability to launch numerous missiles each day, amounting to nearly a thousand in the past week alone. Moreover, the group is proving itself capable of doing this in an operational environment where the Israelis have total air control, can use satellite and drone reconnaissance to observe southern Lebanon in detail, and can send in squads of special forces on lightning raids when required.

At a time like this, reports of the daily casualties, refugee flows and evacuations dominating the western news media tend to convey an underlying assumption that this is a dangerous crisis that will die down within a week or two. The very intensity of coverage implies that the dust will settle and things will return to a kind of normality. This is nonsense. What is happening is the escalation of a conflict that adds a further major war zone to Iraq and Afghanistan, with regional if not global consequences that will be felt for years to come.

In a week of vindictive bombardment, Israel has destroyed the infrastructure that Lebanon spent a decade building. Under the cover of misleading headlines, such as one that read "Israel Pounds Hezbollah Strongholds," Israel has in fact bombed towns and villages, provincial centers and Beirut.

Israel has killed Christians, Sunnis and Shiites, old and young, men and women, from the great Phoenician cities of Sidon and Tyre to more humble towns -- Chtoura and Juniyah, Damour and Naame, Jiye and Baalbek, Khiam and Batrun.

It has wrecked roads, bridges, a lighthouse, ports, tunnels, electrical pylons, water mains, fuel depots, gas stations, power plants, houses, shops, schools - and even a milk factory. It has repeatedly blasted the international airport that was the symbol of Lebanon's rebirth from 15 years of war.

Where, when or if Lebanon will ever get the funding to rebuild what Israel has smashed remain open questions. When Israel finally relents, it will leave Lebanon without a functioning infrastructure - and the lives of nearly 4 million people altered beyond recognition.

That, of course, is explicitly the point of this outrage. Israel's army chief bragged that he would set Lebanon back "20 years." That is what is happening - as a silent world watches.

Posted by JimakaPPJ July 19, 2006 08:09 PM

Peaches writes: Their response is out of proportion because they have targeted civilians and the infrastructure necessary for a modern and civil society in Lebanon Of course they have. That's where the terrorist are hiding. How else do you propose they attack them?

Of course they have. That's where the terrorist are hiding. How else do you propose they attack them?

But mostly, because I can't stand that bs that Israel is only killing civilains by accident. That Israel would not have to kill civilains if Hezbellah did not hide amongst them.

but for you a war means you must win at all costs and civilain casualties are a necessary part of winning the war.

Pressure by Lebenon, Europe, the US and other Western Nations could have been brought against Hezbellah, Syria, and Iran for this violation of international law.

On a more exact point, where have these people been for the last 6 years while Hezbellah took over Southern Lebanon?

Ohio Republican Sen. George Voinovich, a member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee who opposed Bolton's nomination a year ago, said on Thursday he would now support him for the job. "My observations are that while Bolton is not perfect, he has demonstrated his ability, especially in recent months, to work with others and follow the president's lead by working multilaterally," Voinovich said at a news conference. "Should the president choose to renominate him, I cannot imagine a worse message to send to the terrorists -- and to other nations deciding whether to engage in this effort -- than to drag out a possible renomination process or even replace the person our president has entrusted to lead our nation at the United Nations," Voinovich said.

Pressure by Lebenon, Europe, the US and other Western Nations could have been brought against Hezbellah, Syria, and Iran for this violation of international law.

What if all the nations having their nationals held in Gitmo without excuse start bombing the s*** out of your house just because it happened you chose to live near a police station?

as to the fact of whether israel should have attacked, i dont like to try to answer those kinds of questions b/c in my former line of work, we just followed orders and it didnt matter what we thought. so that made it hard for us to ask ourselves if we were fighting the good fight. for that reason, i still dont like to get into that discussion

why dont you explain why double blind studies are the norm in research. Then you can explain why reaching the conclusion first is such a good idea.

It is my firm belief that only the simultaneous implementation of the different elements of this package will allow for the transformation of any cessation of hostilities into a durable ceasefire. When this is achieved, the international community will need to develop a framework for the final delineation of the borders of Lebanon and a decisive revival of the Middle East peace process. I urge the Council to take firm action towards ensuring peace and stability in the Middle East region, as mandated by the Charter of the United Nations.

And, I am basically saying the same thing PPJ is! What's up with that?

Then what is it? I think it's about leaving people alone and letting them live in peace. Another message that Hezbollah ..and the rest of the radical Muslim world isn't getting.

Of course everything is more complex than what people think, but the fact is that Lebanon did not ask for help in getting rid of the terrorists,

Israel, they now demand that Israel not protect itself.

At 9:05 AM local time (0605 GMT) on 12 July 2006[5] Hezbollah's military wing launched a barrage of rockets and mortars on Israeli military positions and northern Israeli village of Shelomi, apparently as a diversion, wounding five civilians in the process.[12] A force of infiltrators then attacked two armoured IDF Humvees patrolling along the Lebanese border road near the Israeli village of Zar'it with anti-tank rockets killing three soldiers, wounding three, and taking two in captivity to Lebanon's territory.[13] Hezbollah has named this operation "Truthful Promise."

Prime Minister of Israel Ehud Olmert declared the attack by Hezbollah's military wing an "act of war" and promised Lebanon a "very painful and far-reaching response."[16] Israeli Defense Minister Amir Peretz also said that "the State of Israel sees itself free to use all measures that it finds it needs, and the Israeli Forces have been given orders in that direction."[17] IDF Chief of Staff Dan Halutz said "If the soldiers are not returned we will turn Lebanon's clock back 20 years."[18

Early on 13 July 2006 Israel sent IDF jets to bomb Lebanon's international airport near Beirut, forcing its closure and diverting its arriving flights to Cyprus. Hezbollah retaliated by bombarding the Israeli towns of Nahariya and Safed, as well as villages nearby with rocket fire. The attacks killed two civilians and wounded 29 more.[21] Nahariya residents began leaving the city en masse in fear of further Katyusha attacks.[22] Israel is now imposing an air and sea blockade on Lebanon,[23][24] and has bombed the main Beirut-Damascus highway.[25]

Strikes on Lebanon's civilian infrastructure include Beirut airport, ports, grain silos, bridges, roads, factories, medical and relief trucks, and the country's largest dairy farm Liban Lait.[28] In one example characterized to be a breach of international law and the Geneva conventions,[29] families evacuating the village of Marwahin in South Lebanon were struck on an open road by an Israeli missile attack; 17 were killed, most of them women and children.[30][31] The organization Human Rights Watch called for an investigation into this incident: "The IDF needs to investigate this attack on a civilian convoy and provide more details about the circumstances ... Having warned civilians to evacuate their village, Israeli forces should have been aware that civilians would be using this road and should have taken great care to avoid harming them."[32]

After widespread attacks on Lebanon by Israeli forces, Nasrallah said "In the beginning, we started to act calmly, we focused on "Israel" (sic) military bases and we didn't attack any settlement, However, since the first day, the enemy attacked Lebanese towns and murdered civilians... Hizbullah militants had destroyed military bases, while the "Israelis" killed civilians and targeted Lebanon's infrastructure." He added that Hezbollah's arsenal had yet to take a direct hit "and so far we have used a small portion of our weaponry."[10] Artillery rockets by Hezbollah were fired at civilian targets throughout the conflict, landing in all major cities of northern Israel including Haifa, Nazareth, Tiberias, Nahariya and Safed.[citation needed]

Louise Arbour, United Nations high commissioner for human rights, expressed "grave concern over the continued killing and maiming of civilians in Lebanon, Israel and the occupied Palestinian territory". She called for Israel to obey a "principle of proportionality,". She also suggested that actions on both sides may be war crimes, telling the BBC that "indiscriminate shelling of cities constitutes a foreseeable and unacceptable targeting of civilians ... Similarly, the bombardment of sites with alleged military significance, but resulting invariably in the killing of innocent civilians, is unjustifiable," and also warning that, "This obligation is also expressed in international criminal law, which defines war crimes and crimes against humanity. ...The scale of the killings in the region, and their predictability, could engage the personal criminal responsibility of those involved, particularly those in a position of command and control."

Given time, Hezbellah's influence in Lebanon and the Middle East would have diminished.

What makes you think that? They would not ever let that happen and are always expanding their influence.

It was the means to regain their dimishing influence and for Sryia and Iran to continue to have a threatening presence that is hostile to Isreal near its border.

This statement says just about the opposite of the one before????

When Rafik Hariri, the former prime minister of Lebanon, was assassinated in Lebanon in 2005, mass demonstrations put pressure on Syria to withdraw its troops. President Bashar Assad of Syria announced a withdrawal and on April 26, 2005, after 29 years of military action in Lebanon, the last Syrian troops left. The dismantling of Lebanon's militias therefore is the last main part of Resolution 1559 that has not been implemented. [SOURCE: UN, news reports; Globe Staff/ Kathleen Hennrikus]

Do you wonder why people find it offensive?

QUESTION: Is the U.S. going to -- FOREIGN MINISTER GHEIT: Andrea, a ceasefire is imperative and we have to keep working to reach that objective. It is imperative. We have to bring it to an end as soon as possible. Thank you. QUESTION: Should there be a ceasefire now? SECRETARY RICE: We all agree that it should happen as soon as possible when conditions are conducive to do so. (Italics added.)

srael could not get rid of them in 13 years of occupation.

Nearly one third of all casualties in the Lebanon-Israel conflict have been children, according to the United Nations' emergency relief co-ordinator, Jan Egeland.

He said it appeared neither Hezbollah nor the Israelis seemed to care about civilian suffering.

Nearly a third of the dead or wounded were children and the wounded could not be helped because roads and bridges had been cut by Israeli air strikes.

Hezzbollah, Hamas, Iran, the Taliban etc... can only survive because of our need for peace.

who should the US support if not Isreal?

why does the u.s. have to support anyone?

i find it hard to understand why people are focusing more on the lebanese civilian casualties than on the israeli civilian casualties

My cabbages however...:) And my peas, and beans, and tomatoes and cucumbers. It is a cornacopia of vegetable surplus. My melons and squash are close to fruition and the sweet corn is days away from being put on my plate. I have plenty of dill for pickles to begin canning, and basil for Pesto and Brochetta and Cilantro for salso.

the short answer is: Oil

I feel for all the casualties who didn't pick up a gun and didn't ask for a fight

but I think in the minds of Hezbollah members the West and their proxy Israel started it in 1948.

perhaps bombs were not the best strategy, but ground troops may be even worse b/c of ensuing chaos.

For decades now Israel has established buffer zones, occupation zones, red lines, blue lines, green lines, interdiction zones, killing fields, surrogate army zones, and every other conceivable kind of zone between it and Arabs who fight its occupation and colonial policies - all without success.

Here is why: protecting Israelis while leaving Arabs to a fate of humiliation, occupation, degradation and subservient acquiescence to Israeli-American dictates only guarantees that those Arabs will regroup, plan a resistance strategy, and come back one day to fight for their land, their humanity, their dignity and the prospect that their children can have a normal life one day.

But all these problems of military strategy pale in comparison to the fundamental weakness of Israel's foreign policy. Israel may have a well-established military policy, but it does not have a peace policy. This is why Israel so often shoots before it thinks, and why Israeli leaders so often succumb to the military establishment each time a crisis arises. If the current conflict escalates to a confrontation with Syria and Iran, it will be largely because of Israel's tendency to substitute military strategy for diplomacy. Instead of searching for a policy that explores ways to stabilize the Middle East and offer concrete peace proposals to its enemies, Israeli leaders are busy preparing military plans for every conceivable contingency. These plans are the first to be pulled out of the drawer whenever a crisis erupts, and are often applied without proper political consideration. A military policy cannot be a permanent substitute for diplomacy. The continued subjugation of diplomacy to security considerations and the domination of the Israeli security establishment on matters of foreign policy are bound to result in the failure of both military policy and of foreign policy.

Israel will have a lot of military success over the next couple of weeks as they pound Hezbellah strongholds and send troops into Southern Lebanon. When they try and hold this territory by creating a buffer zone, it will suffer from they same problems it did before and that we are seeing in Iraq. Then it will be an occupation and Hezbellah will start to gain victories and power through suiced bombings, bombings, guerilla warfare, etc. They feel like they beat them before and gained enormous influence in the ME and they want to do it again. I think this is a fight Hezbellah wants.

I am angry at self-centered Hezbollah, which has done the inadmissible of taking a unilateral war decision without consulting the Lebanese government of which it is part, never giving a second thought to the hundreds (perhaps thousands) of Lebanese who will perish as a result of its selfish decision. I am angry that citizens of a nation like Israel, who have so suffered at the hands of others, would allow themselves such an out-of-proportion reaction, oh-so-far from the "eye-for-an-eye and tooth-for-a-tooth" principle that we might have forgiven them. I am just as angry at -- I have lost hope in -- the international community that is keeping silent and not even budging with an official condemnation of this senseless instinct of extermination. By both sides, I would be lynched for what I have just said, if they had the chance. But what have I got to lose anymore?

"Killing innocent civilians is NOT an act of self-defense. Destroying a sovereign nation is NOT a measured response."

Lebanese civilians have been under the constant attack of the state of Israel for several days. The State of Israel, in disregard to international law and the Geneva Convention, is launching a maritime and air siege targeting the entire population of the country. Innocent civilians are being collectively punished in Lebanon by the state of Israel in deliberate acts of terrorism as described in Article 33 of the Geneva Convention.

The Lebanese people feel left out by the world that is turning a blind eye on the savagery of the Israeli state. Israel does not seem to be capable of approaching any problem outside the realm of the military power bestowed on it by the government of the United States of America and other western governments. ...

Up until now more than 300 Lebanese civilians have been killed and thousands missing under the rubbles, thousands wounded, bridges and infrastructure destroyed, refugees are leaving Beirut in droves and worst of all the enforced siege might lead to a human catastrophe in the next few days. There must be an end to this cycle of violence and continuous violation of international laws and basic ethical behavior. ...

and by the way...did you see those marines on the news yesterday evacuating u.s. civilians from beirut. excuse me while my chest swells with pride.

Hezbollah are civilians. They don't belong to any army. I wouldn't be surprised if more than half the so called civilian casualties are actually Hezbollah.

Keep this in mind... Hezbollah are civilians. They don't belong to any army.

BTW- there is somewhat of a theme here. Every time that Israel withdraws, the same territory is used to attack them.

Hezbollah enters Israel and captures two Israeli soldiers on July 12. In response, Israel launches a major military attack, bombing the Lebanese airport and parts of southern Lebanon. Hezbollah retaliates by launching hundreds of rockets and missles--believed to have been supplied by Syria and Iran--into Israel.

I think that you also know that Israel had a peace plan, unilateral withdrawal with no conditions. The fact that the plan was flawed, and failed, is not the same as no plan at all.

Another thing that I assume you already know, is that it is highly unlikely that Israel plans to occupy any part of Lebanon.

It seems that you have sided with the stupid. Before, these places were run by the corrupt. The best answer would be for Lebanon, and the Palestinians, to get competant leadership in place.

The best answer would be for Lebanon, and the Palestinians, to get competant leadership in place.

Another thing that I assume you already know, is that it is highly unlikely that Israel plans to occupy any part of Lebanon.

They would much rather have Lebanese troops patrol the border, a group that could be held accountable, and attacked in the future if there are problems.

a lot of the guys/gals who did pick up a gun didnt ask for a fight

Roger, you are an Israel nationalist who believes that Israel can do what ever it wants, oppress who ever they want, bomb who ever they want and there should be no consequences.

Boy, you really dont like losing arguments, do you? First try reason, if that doesnt work, personal attacks?

Hezbolla is a politial party with 1.3m or so members. Hezbolla also is a milita, or army, with 5000 or so membebers

Lebanon has more things too worry about than Israel's security on its southern border.

Keep this in mind... Hezbollah are civilians. They don't belong to any army. I wouldn't be surprised if more than half the so called civilian casualties are actually Hezbollah.