Friday Open Thread

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    So my brother is back in the hospital... (5.00 / 3) (#1)
    by desertswine on Fri Jul 05, 2024 at 01:57:48 PM EST
    with covid.  It seems to be making a resurgence in places around the country.  Remember to get your booster shots and take common sense health precautions.  

    I've touched my face (none / 0) (#3)
    by jondee on Fri Jul 05, 2024 at 03:45:19 PM EST
    about 10,000,000 times since they said don't touch your face. It's one of those things like when they tell you not look fierce animals in eye.

    But yes, take all necessary precautions.


    I have a friend who got it (none / 0) (#5)
    by Jeralyn on Fri Jul 05, 2024 at 07:23:25 PM EST
    two weeks ago. The new strain that is very contagious. He tested early enough to take that drug they recommend to prevent really serious illness. He was pretty sick anyway. Really bad headaches and joint pain and respiratory issues. He is over it but still has really bad fatigue. Age is a problem so people over 70 really need to be careful.

    Don't forget the other viruses. (none / 0) (#44)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Jul 06, 2024 at 07:44:36 PM EST
    I was vaccinated against everything but respiratory syncytial virus (RSV), so of course I got infected and got sick. It kicked my butt. Months later, while I'm much better, I'm still dealing with its residual effects.

    When I was diagnosed, I was surprised because as an adult, you don't expect to catch RSV, which typically afflicts young children. But it can become a real problem in older adults like us, as I learned the hard way.

    So, if you're 60 and over, ask your doctor about getting vaccinated against RSV. Speaking from unnecessary experience, you really don't want this. I like breathing normally, and I'm sure you do, too.




    Glad to hear you are better (5.00 / 1) (#51)
    by Jeralyn on Sat Jul 06, 2024 at 11:53:14 PM EST
    I got the RSV vaccine when I got my flu shot last fall -- they can give them together. They told me to wait a week for the covid booster, which I did.

    I got the latest booster last week, even though it's probably not working against the latest strains, and the new covid booster that does work against it won't be out until fall.

    I still wear a mask in elevators and the grocery store. I don't want any of these viruses.

    I totally agree with Donald's advice.


    Paxlovid (none / 0) (#45)
    by leap2 on Sat Jul 06, 2024 at 07:57:32 PM EST

    yes that was the medicine (none / 0) (#52)
    by Jeralyn on Sat Jul 06, 2024 at 11:54:15 PM EST
    my friend took but it didn't help him.

    it seems like it is a double-edged sword (none / 0) (#56)
    by leap2 on Sun Jul 07, 2024 at 09:44:15 AM EST
    My brother and sister-in-law took Paxlovid after they each came down with COVID. It had unpleasant side-effects--including a terrible metallic taste that persisted for a while. They were pretty sick for a week or so, but did not have to go-to-the-hospital-sick. Then a month later they each had rebound COVID which was not fun. He said he's not sure he'd take that again. I told him that at least it kept him out of the hospital.

    Paxlovid worked very well for me. (none / 0) (#57)
    by fishcamp on Sun Jul 07, 2024 at 11:20:06 AM EST
    I kicked Covid in just a few days as did my roommate.  Unfortunately he has been left with no sense of smell.  Looking back I think I contacted the virus from a gas pump handle, but I don't really know that.  My doctor said if I get Covid again I can use Paxlovid for a second time.

    Paxlovid (none / 0) (#61)
    by Coral on Sun Jul 07, 2024 at 01:04:33 PM EST
    worked extremely well for my husband and me. We both got Covid at different times and managed not to infect each other.

    Paxlovid (none / 0) (#136)
    by Steve13209 on Fri Jul 12, 2024 at 10:49:04 AM EST
    I caught COVID last March at the end of a cruise (I know...but I thought it might be OK). The first couple of days were tough (headache, fatigue), so I got Paxlovid from my GP. It seemed to be just as bad as the COVID symptoms, and lasted over a week.
    But was it the COVID or was it the Paxlovid. I'd probably not get the Pax next time...but you have to decide BEFORE you get really sick!

    When you are lazy (5.00 / 3) (#2)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jul 05, 2024 at 03:12:49 PM EST
    Ha (5.00 / 2) (#4)
    by fishcamp on Fri Jul 05, 2024 at 05:35:31 PM EST
    I did the same thing. People down here go by boat to watch the local Islamorada fireworks.

    This week (5.00 / 4) (#6)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Jul 05, 2024 at 07:38:30 PM EST
    has just about done me in. I have been so stressed between following the nonsense regarding the debate and personal issues.

    Ditto. (5.00 / 3) (#7)
    by desertswine on Fri Jul 05, 2024 at 10:10:18 PM EST
    Same. (5.00 / 4) (#8)
    by Towanda on Fri Jul 05, 2024 at 10:51:53 PM EST
    Project 2025 (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Jul 06, 2024 at 07:15:00 AM EST
    is finally getting the attention it deserves. It seems to have conservatives shook but honestly this is what conservatives have wanted for decades. Maybe they are finally realizing that most Americans don't want a unitary executive.

    IMO a little late (5.00 / 2) (#10)
    by jmacWA on Sat Jul 06, 2024 at 08:47:57 AM EST
    BUT, just maybe if they give it blanket coverage enough conservatives and independents will become aware of the consequences of another Trump term.

    I (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by FlJoe on Sat Jul 06, 2024 at 11:42:35 AM EST
    agree, after much reflection I have come to the conclusion that Joe must go.

    Even if he is still mentally sharp, he walks and talks like a feeble old man. Americans don't want that in a president and the press are in an absolute feeding frenzy, maybe the worst I have ever seen, without a shred of bothsiderism.

    For better or worse it almost has to be Kamala.

    They Republicans and Media (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by KeysDan on Sat Jul 06, 2024 at 01:10:34 PM EST
    In 2016, took Hillary's stumble and pneumonia and turned it into a death watch.   Rather than being on the campaign trail, she should be home making out her will, was the refrain.  

    This is now a case of no bothsiderism.   Only Biden is old.  The NY Times tells us so.  The worst is the discussion in public by Democratic office holders.  We all want to know what five Democratic Congressman think.  And, they are not even in diners.


    I hate the feeding frenzy (none / 0) (#18)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jul 06, 2024 at 01:29:57 PM EST
    and I completely agree with you about craven opportunistic D a-holes

    But I can't lie to myself about what I'm seeing in Biden.

    I believe, and hope, he can right the ship.  But time is running out.

    It's now being reported Biden was given the answers to the radio interviews where he screwed up the answers.

    It looks like he either can not appreciate the seriousness of the situation or he really can't do anything about it.

    That's just the way it looks to me.


    Sorry I mean (none / 0) (#19)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jul 06, 2024 at 01:32:43 PM EST
    Biden was given the QUESTIONS to the radio interviews where he screwed up the answers.

    Joe has (none / 0) (#21)
    by KeysDan on Sat Jul 06, 2024 at 01:54:00 PM EST
    been in politics since elected to the US Senate at age 29.    He will know if the damage can be undone sufficiently so as to remain a viable candidate.  Of course, he will say he is in it to stay until he doesn't.  I agree that there is some time to evaluate the situation . But, not a whole lot.

    I'm not sure I'm still convinced (none / 0) (#22)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jul 06, 2024 at 02:19:05 PM EST
    he will.  Know.

    It feels like when you and most everyone else (none / 0) (#82)
    by vml68 on Mon Jul 08, 2024 at 11:37:33 AM EST
    can see it is time to take away the car keys from your parent or grandparent but they still insist they can drive just fine.

    I saw this clip a couple of days ago...
    Biden 'freezes' at White House concert

    Yes, Biden had a bad night at the debate. But, we can't pretend that there have not been signs showing that this was not a one off.
    How long are the 'bedwetters' going to be told to sit down, STFU and clap harder. To not believe their lying eyes.

    If the popular vote mattered, I would be fine with sticking with Biden. But, we all know what happened with Hillary Clinton. Those few votes in swing states are all that matter.


    I have made no secret of the fact that I (none / 0) (#83)
    by vml68 on Mon Jul 08, 2024 at 11:53:34 AM EST
    think it is time for Biden to step aside. Having said that, I was hoping that when asked about it during the interview, he would say that he would discuss it party leaders, his family, etc. and make a decision that would be best for the country.

    The minute he said he would wait for the 'Lord Almighty' to tell him to step aside, he lost me.
    The icing on the cake was the comment that he would be okay with losing as long as he gave it his best shot.

    Sorry, not good enough. If Democracy is on the line, as most of us who are paying attention can see, then we need better than that.


    It doesn't have to be (none / 0) (#14)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jul 06, 2024 at 12:15:32 PM EST
    There's Prtizker, Shapiro, Beshear.

    Donors Pledge $2 Million for `Mini-Primary'
    July 6, 2024 at 11:23 am EDT By Taegan Goddard 138 Comments

    Washington Post: "A Democratic donor says he and others are seeking presidential debates among potential nominees if President Biden decides to step aside

    Not sure that's wise but it might be coming.  And I do not think Kamala is the best candidate.  But I also think she could win.  Maybe.  


    The (5.00 / 2) (#20)
    by FlJoe on Sat Jul 06, 2024 at 01:50:21 PM EST
    optics of "pushing" a woman of color off the stage would not be good.

    Who would be the "best" candidate is pure conjecture at this time and Kamala is not without a few advantages.

    Whitmer might be an option, but I don't think some whitebread  semi obscure Male Governor is going to inspire a lot of the base.

    AKamala/Beshear may be the best we could get


    If kamala (5.00 / 2) (#24)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Jul 06, 2024 at 02:59:10 PM EST
    Is not chosen expect a walkout of black delegates

    Not only that (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jul 06, 2024 at 03:36:43 PM EST
    this is the year for a female candidate.  And she has already been out there on the question of reproductive rights. The right is going to try to destroy whoever it is.

    If Joe really thinks she is the best way he can always resign and make her an incumbent.

    I realize what that asking him to do but these are not normal times.


    My guess is (none / 0) (#27)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jul 06, 2024 at 03:41:18 PM EST
    unless he does that there is going to be massive pressure for some kind of 'mini primary' as Clyburn so artfully put it

    A bit about that (none / 0) (#28)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jul 06, 2024 at 03:44:58 PM EST
    the right has said they would make replacing the VP almost or literally impossible.

    That would make Mike Johnson second in line for the president and Kamala a big ole target for the gun nuts.


    That is why Biden (none / 0) (#32)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Jul 06, 2024 at 05:32:25 PM EST
    cannot step down as president in my opinion. There would be no VP and we all know the nuts in the house could care less and will burn the country down.

    I'm not sure (none / 0) (#36)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jul 06, 2024 at 05:48:05 PM EST
    Endorsing her is going to do it

    You lose (none / 0) (#39)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Jul 06, 2024 at 07:12:37 PM EST
    the incumbency key according to Alan Lichtman if he doesn't resign the presidency.

    I am so depressed that we are here. A lot of people were saying last year that we should have a primary. In hindsight they were right.


    I have to agree. (5.00 / 3) (#43)
    by Chuck0 on Sat Jul 06, 2024 at 07:33:51 PM EST
    As much as everyone won't like the optics, I don't think Kamala Harris is the best candidate going forward. Now is not the time for worry about optics. Now is the time to win.

    No one (none / 0) (#50)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Jul 06, 2024 at 10:06:56 PM EST
    Else can access the money. So it has to be her. No one else can raise enough money

    No one other than Biden--or Harris (5.00 / 2) (#66)
    by Coral on Sun Jul 07, 2024 at 03:18:23 PM EST
    (with a strong endorsement from Biden and other top Dem party officials)--can beat Trump.

    Any other option will lose a large faction of the base, including Black women who are historically the most loyal Democratic voters.

    Everything else is pie in the sky and a capitulation to the fascists who have a good foothold on power in the states as well as the federal government.

    I think the strongest possible candidates have 2028 in mind, and are not going to get into a mud wrestling match over a hopeless nomination this year, especially this late in the game.


    I agree (none / 0) (#73)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Jul 07, 2024 at 05:56:28 PM EST
    If Kamala is the nominee and beats Trump, she will have primary opposition in 2028 which could be a good thing to sharpen campaign skills.

    I thought (none / 0) (#78)
    by coast on Sun Jul 07, 2024 at 08:24:32 PM EST
    there was a thing against primarying an incumbent.  Isn't that the whole reason we are where we are?

    Yeah (none / 0) (#79)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Jul 08, 2024 at 04:57:43 AM EST
    rereading what I wrote it makes no sense.

    The thing about the money they have raised (none / 0) (#15)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jul 06, 2024 at 12:17:32 PM EST
    it's said it could all be given to a pac to support the nominee.

    It was being said (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jul 06, 2024 at 12:19:04 PM EST
    Only Kamala could legally spend the money they have raised.

    Apparently not.


    Says who? (5.00 / 2) (#48)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Jul 06, 2024 at 09:04:53 PM EST
    11 CFR § 103.4 Vice Presidential candidate campaign depositories. Any campaign depository designated by the principal campaign committee of a political party's candidate for President shall be the campaign depository for that political party's candidate for the office of Vice President.

    Federal campaign finance regulations state that a campaign committee designated by a presidential candidate can be used by the party's vice-presidential candidate. Kamala Harris' name is listed on FEC filings for both Biden's statement of candidacy and his campaign account's statement of organization, meaning she would likely be able to use the funds if she continues with the campaign, provided she is the nominee who replaces Joe Biden.

    However, if some other candidate replaces Biden and Harris remains the VP nominee, per federal law it's a different campaign organization, and those monies would likely not be available to the campaign. It would require FEC approval, and that's likely not forthcoming given the commission's present members.



    NBC (none / 0) (#53)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Jul 07, 2024 at 08:15:40 AM EST

    Rajan and Gross also noted that if Biden steps aside, the funds could be transferred to a charity or a super PAC, which would not be able to coordinate with the campaign. The funds could also be transferred to the national party.

    The HILL (none / 0) (#54)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Jul 07, 2024 at 08:23:24 AM EST

    Whether Harris is the nominee or not, the campaign's remaining cash on hand could also go to charity, the DNC or a super PAC, which can raise and spend unlimited sums of money so long as it does not coordinate with the candidate it is supporting or opposing.

    "The money can be used for `any legal purpose,' except personal use," Moore said.

    Yahoo news (none / 0) (#55)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Jul 07, 2024 at 08:27:40 AM EST

    Another option would be for the excess Biden campaign funds to go into a super-PAC, a committee that can raise and donate unlimited amounts of money to finance political expenditures. The super-PAC would not be allowed to directly coordinate with Democratic candidates, including whoever the new nominee is.

    "The way that the money could be used most effectively to influence the outcome of the presidential election is to convert it into an entity that does not have limits, such as a super-PAC," Gross said.

    A Matter of Necessity (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by KeysDan on Sat Jul 06, 2024 at 12:00:21 PM EST
    Defeating the twentieth century may require murder.

     Kevin Roberts (no relation to Roberts the King Maker), president of the Heritage Foundation,  proclaimed that "we are in the process of the second American Revolution.  A Revolution which will remain bloodless if the left allows it to be."  

    So, if  no resistance, violence can be avoided. Kevin is very encouraged by the Supreme Court presidential immunity ruling that found the Constitution to be unconstitutional. All part of institutionalizing Trumpism.

    Mark Robinson, Lt. Governor of North Carolina and Republican candidate for Governor, on June 30, 2024,at a Church in rural North Carolina, said "some folks need killing."  "It's time for someone to say it. It's not a matter of vengeance.  It's not a matter of being mean or spiteful. It's a matter of necessity."

    The pro-life Republican Candidate for Governor has a wide range of "folks" who need to be killed, "wicked people" all,  including socialists, communists and usual targets.

    A church is a counter-intuitive location to woo voters to your murder plans.  Maybe, Project 2025 shall call for laws mandating display of the Ten Commandments--in Churches, with a spotlight on the Fifth Commandment, Thou shall not kill (Catholic numbering).

    Promising violence in order to enact political goals is a text book definition of terrorism.  President Biden could  demonstrate his vigor by declaring the Heritage Foundation a terrorism organization and arrest those proposing violence. If you are president they let you do it--these days. I think it applies to Democratic presidents.

    What does this mean? (5.00 / 1) (#30)
    by jmacWA on Sat Jul 06, 2024 at 03:59:49 PM EST
    A Revolution which will remain bloodless if the left allows it to be.

    We should just lay down for this?  If the right starts a revolution, they should not expect it to be bloodless.  It almost sounds like they think no one on the left is willing to fight against tyranny.  Maybe I am just not getting what Roberts is saying, but if he thinks everyone will just lay down for this GOP bs he is wrong.


    Seems (5.00 / 2) (#31)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jul 06, 2024 at 04:09:16 PM EST
    pretty clear to me.  This will be a powerful weapon for democrats.  Him and Project 2025 or whatever it's called.

    It's a gift. Trump is trying to run from it.  But he can't.


    It will not be bloodless. (5.00 / 2) (#34)
    by Chuck0 on Sat Jul 06, 2024 at 05:45:40 PM EST
    The right thinks Democrats don't own guns. We just don't put them xmas cards. Or give them to kids.

    No one is going to force their version of their religion on me. That is something that will generate a second amendment reaction.


    Civil War (5.00 / 1) (#62)
    by Coral on Sun Jul 07, 2024 at 01:08:01 PM EST
    I don't want to go through a bloody civil war, and I desperately don't want my kids to have to live through something like that.

    November 2024 seems more and more terrifying to me.


    One aspect (5.00 / 1) (#84)
    by KeysDan on Mon Jul 08, 2024 at 05:56:17 PM EST
    of all this Project 2025  revolution that gets overlooked is the impact of civil unrest or war (that is promised if the  left resists)on personal finances.  During the Civil  War the confederate dollar steady declined and upon surrender it was worthless.   The Heritage  Foundation/Trump  Platform  is unlikely  to tell their MAGAts  that  they could find their  retirement savings to  be as valuable as Monopoly Money.

    I don't (none / 0) (#64)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Jul 07, 2024 at 01:50:47 PM EST
    want that either but I don't want my children and grandchild to grow up in a Russian autocracy. So I will fight to my death to prevent it from happening.

    The most worrisome thing to me is Trump ordering the military to kill Americans. Or even mass murder Hispanic migrants. I have seen this discussed by military officers on social media. Is it a legal order or not? If the president says to kill Americans do they obey or not? If Trump calls it his "official duty" then do they obey and murder Americans or do they disobey? It puts the military in a very bad spot. But Trump will only hire sycophants who will go along with his orders. So what is your average soldier to do?


    Religion is at the root (5.00 / 1) (#89)
    by jondee on Tue Jul 09, 2024 at 01:15:10 PM EST
    of 99.9% of the regressive, irrational B.S in this country, including providing the psychological template for whacked-out phenomena like QAnon and Alex Jones. It's absurd to keep dancing around that fact for fear of offending someone.

    If not for the religiously enthralled, The Heritage Foundation, Federalist Society, Hoover Institute etc would probably all crumble like a house of cards.

    People should be free to be as superstitious and medieval as they want to be as long as they keep it to themselves. The trouble is they don't.


    The Evangelicals (5.00 / 1) (#93)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Jul 10, 2024 at 04:50:48 AM EST
    have bought into the fundamentalist Islam model:
    1. Destroy all moderate Christians.
    2. Become the dominant form of Christianity.
    3. Inadvertedly make Christianity so toxic the numbers start declining.
    4. Since Christianity has now become toxic the state must enforce it because nobody is choosing it.

    Aligning religion with an unpopular political party has a tendency to have all this happen.

    All this talk (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Jul 06, 2024 at 03:31:59 PM EST
    About Biden quitting the race means Kampala as the nominee. There really are no other options. None of the other candidates have been on the national stage

    The scariest part is (none / 0) (#29)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jul 06, 2024 at 03:53:32 PM EST
    there are other options.  

    By the way.  In case anyone forgot. The democratic convention is in Chicago this year!


    I can't (none / 0) (#33)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Jul 06, 2024 at 05:34:39 PM EST
    see the other options really getting much traction, a lot of talk but no real traction.

    Let's hope it is organized and not a mess.


    Given the stakes (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jul 06, 2024 at 05:46:33 PM EST
    I'm sure democrats will join together and fall right in line.



    Well, sometimes (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Jul 06, 2024 at 07:14:01 PM EST
    there are benefits to not falling in line when you look at the GOP who is falling behind a rapist, fraudster and felon.

    And by most metrics (none / 0) (#42)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jul 06, 2024 at 07:30:41 PM EST
    They are winning

    Some good news (5.00 / 2) (#37)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jul 06, 2024 at 05:51:31 PM EST

    With no national support or attention, Arkansas women (and a few good men) did what everyone said couldn't be done. On July 5, organizers turned in enough signatures to qualify an amendment to restore access to abortion in Arkansas.  The amendment will restore access up to 18 weeks for any reason and thereafter has exceptions for rape, incest, fatal fetal anomaly, and life and health of the mother.  The amendment had no support from national groups like Planned Parenthood or the ACLU because it didn't allow for abortions up to the point of viability.  However, polling showed that anything over 18 weeks simply wouldn't pass in deep red Arkansas, and the amendment will cover 99% of abortions that do occur.  


    Do you (none / 0) (#38)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Jul 06, 2024 at 07:11:14 PM EST
    think it will pass? It seems they have done the research.

    Every state gets to vote on this except GA it seems. We have this idiotic clause in our constitution that says it has to be put forth by the legislature so citizen driven issues can't be put up to a vote.


    By no means is Georgia the only state (5.00 / 1) (#58)
    by Peter G on Sun Jul 07, 2024 at 11:27:14 AM EST
    that does not provide for citizen initiatives to amend the state constitution. Ballotpedia says it is in fact 24 states, including some large ones, that don't; almost half the country, that is.

    I won't say it can't pass (none / 0) (#41)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jul 06, 2024 at 07:29:38 PM EST
    because everyone said they couldn't get the signatures

    Like in places like Kansas (5.00 / 3) (#49)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Jul 06, 2024 at 10:00:36 PM EST
    I think there are a lot of silently very angry women

    It appears the majority (5.00 / 1) (#71)
    by KeysDan on Sun Jul 07, 2024 at 03:51:02 PM EST
    surpassed the understanding of the minority. Justice Sotomayor, in dissent, says "when he (the president) uses his official powers in any way, he now will be insulated from criminal prosecution.  Orders the Navy's Seal Team 6 to assassinate a political rival--immune, organizes a military coup to hold onto presidency--immune, takes a bribe for a pardon, immune...immune, immune."

    Roberts, writing for the majority, says distinguishing between official acts (immunity, cannot be prosecuted) and unofficial acts (can be prosecuted)can be difficult.  Going on to make it even more difficult--in dividing official and unofficial, courts may not inquire into the President's motives. To which Sotomayor responds--the dividing line between official and unofficial conduct narrows the unofficial almost to a nullity.  And, then there is the evidence restrictions in prosecuting an unofficial act, in  the unlikely event that such act can be clearly discerned.

    The pardon illustrates how indecipherable the opinion.. Certainly, pardons are a core constitutional power and, according to the opinion, the president is absolutely immune for core acts.  But, motive, which is off-limits, would be necessary to prosecution or not (e.g., cash bribe vs rectifying injustice).

    The difficult challenges to prosecuting a former president charged with crimes while in office  made almost impossible with this ruling suggests modifications or even reversal in the future. But this is likely a feature not a bug.  In my view, this opinion is for a specific individual, for specific crimes, for a specific time.  Bush v Gore offered a hand but said not to be a precedent; Trump v United States of America (aptly named), offers a hand, but takes a different tact

    The Alex Baldwin trial starts today (5.00 / 1) (#96)
    by McBain on Wed Jul 10, 2024 at 08:45:43 AM EST
    I didn't think this needed to be a criminal case. Same with armorer Hannah Gutierrez. A civil verdict or settlement would be enough.  I understand the legal argument for guilt, just don't think every lethal mistake needs to be punished with prison time.

    Dismissed. (none / 0) (#163)
    by Chuck0 on Fri Jul 12, 2024 at 06:37:35 PM EST
    With prejudice.

    President Biden is old, (5.00 / 1) (#97)
    by KeysDan on Wed Jul 10, 2024 at 11:56:46 AM EST
    The NY Times continues to remind us. Today's home page has four stories about his age plus another (x2) editorial urging him to withdraw.  Also, one article about Trump "moderating" Republicans on abortion.  Note: if you make it to the opinions page you will find columns urging withdrawal by Bret Stephen's and George Clooney, yes the actor guy.  

    No reporting about Trump's crazed rally in Florida where he claimed electric cars need to stop and recharge for 3 hours after every 45 minutes of driving.

    Now, how about that "moderation".  The GOP platform says it "believes" that the 14th Amendment guarantees that no person can be denied life or liberty without due process and the states are, therefore, free to pass laws protecting those rights. Republicans will oppose late term abortions while supporting policies that "advance" prenatal care, access to birth control, and IVF.

    So, for starters, a moderation in that that some women have rights, some do not, depending on the state of the union in which they live.  And, what about that "no person"---is that the woman seeking an abortion or is that a fetal person, a zygote personhood?  And, of course, the claim could be made that there is no need for a national ban on abortion since that is already covered under the due process clause of the 14th Amendment. What does advance prenatal care even mean?  Note, too, the use of "birth control" not contraceptives.  And, what about distribution of Mifepristone?  Easy to ban by executive order.

    The NY Times and other media have fallen for that "moderation".  Of course, none of it really matters, Trump can't be trusted on anything, anytime.  

    Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (NY 14) (5.00 / 1) (#98)
    by KeysDan on Wed Jul 10, 2024 at 05:19:06 PM EST
    has introduced articles of impeachment against Justices Alito and Thomas. The articles focus on  (a) failure, over the years, to disclose substantial gifts from individuals with business before the court, and (b) failure to recuse from matters/cases in which their benefactors and spouses are implicated.

    Senator Sheldon Whitehouse (D., RI) and Senator Ron Wyden (D., OR) have requested Attorney General Merrick Garland to appoint a Special Counsel to investigate Justice Thomas for undisclosed gifts and tax obligation compliance.

    If the Attorney General blows off the Senators' request , President Biden should direct him to do so.  The corruption of the Supreme Court is a valid subject to look into.  (And, Trump v USA finds absolute immunity for the president in contacts with the DOJ)
    although such direction by the president to address this SC crisis would seem appropriate in any event).

    These steps by AOC and Senators Whitehouse and Wyden seem more productive than Democrats publicly damaging President Biden and all down ticket, especially with no plausible alternative in view of the constraints.

    Pelosi says the President (5.00 / 1) (#99)
    by coast on Wed Jul 10, 2024 at 07:11:15 PM EST
    Needs to make a decision as to whether he is running or not.  Has she been living under a rock?  The President stated as much in his interview on ABC, and followed that with a letter to House members just 2 days ago.

    What decision is she talking about?  

    How much clearer can the President's statements be?

    Its all about (none / 0) (#100)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jul 10, 2024 at 08:27:20 PM EST

    He is doing an (none / 0) (#101)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jul 10, 2024 at 08:29:33 PM EST
    extended solo post NATO press conference

    President Biden (none / 0) (#102)
    by KeysDan on Wed Jul 10, 2024 at 08:55:32 PM EST
    has been intensely involved this week with the NATO Conference, including a celebratory dinner tonight at the White House.  This can be taxing even for a much younger person.  With a critically important press conference tomorrow, the president needs to be well-rested.  His staff needs to be sure he paces himself.

    The disastrous debate that put us in this pickle came after a week of overseas travel for D-Day celebrations, conferences and ceremonies' followed by a cross-country fund-raiser at Los Angeles.   Accommodations need to be made for the president, especially with his long-time stutter that may be exacerbated by tiredness.


    An impressive high pressure (5.00 / 1) (#130)
    by KeysDan on Thu Jul 11, 2024 at 08:10:10 PM EST
    press conference.   And, after a full and intense week hosting world leaders at the NATO Summit, including a White House dinner and other social events.  A rough schedule for even  someone much younger.

    Criticism's of  those few times, over an hour  or so,  of misspoken words make me think of the "good old days" of George W. Bush  such  as  "it's hard to put food on your families", or "OB/GYN  can't practice their  love on women".   Or going back in history, the famous response of President Eisenhower to a question about what his vice President, Richard Nixon, contributed to the country--give me a week and I will try to come up with something. Different from President Biden's  great response about his vice President, Kamala Harris.

    No one can tank a campaign (5.00 / 2) (#133)
    by Chuck0 on Fri Jul 12, 2024 at 09:40:01 AM EST
    like the US Democratic Party. I'm starting to believe they like to lose. Stop with the hand wringing. Just STFU. Keep your negative comments to yourself. You are NOT helping anyone (well maybe the GQP cult).

    I don't care if Biden can't finish a second term. Kamala Harris is more than able to do that. I would vote for a dead rat before letting Orange doofus back in the White House.

    Given Biden's age four years ago, and given (5.00 / 1) (#147)
    by Peter G on Fri Jul 12, 2024 at 01:24:25 PM EST
    the stresses of the Presidency (for those who take the job seriously, unlike the prior incumbent), I did not expect Biden to live this long when I voted for him. I fully expected Harris to be president by now ... which I also thought was probably the only way the U.S. would ever have a Black woman president. What worries me the most at this time, given how (inexplicably) close the race supposedly is, is that if even 3-4% of Democratic voters are (secretly or otherwise) unwilling to vote for a woman for President, and if a similar percentage (with some overlap) will not vote for someone who is not white, that could be the margin of defeat. I deeply believe that misogynistic percentage (even if single-digit) is what kept Hillary from winning.

    Absolutely (none / 0) (#152)
    by Steve13209 on Fri Jul 12, 2024 at 02:21:09 PM EST
    It's unfortunate, but real. Amongst even the most Dem-leaning constituencies.

    I agree it's a valid fear (none / 0) (#155)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jul 12, 2024 at 03:00:19 PM EST
    But I also think she can win against Trump.  The idea Joe has a better chance, now, is less convincing than it was in 2020.

    Energized (5.00 / 1) (#158)
    by FlJoe on Fri Jul 12, 2024 at 03:20:31 PM EST
    women of color is always one of the keys to victory for Democrats.

    That (5.00 / 1) (#159)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jul 12, 2024 at 03:22:59 PM EST
    Combined with the fallout if Dobbs makes it possible. IMO

    Georgia (none / 0) (#160)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Jul 12, 2024 at 04:09:21 PM EST
    definitely would be out of reach for her. The question really is not GA but the midwest and if she can pull enough votes there.

    Ironic (none / 0) (#137)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Jul 12, 2024 at 11:07:30 AM EST
    as to how the goalposts have been moved from "unable to feed himself" to "can't serve a complete term". Yeah, so what if he can't complete a full term? Nobody thought that about JFK and yet he was murdered. Anyone can have a stroke, heart attack etc.

    They said the same thing about Hillary-that she was at death's door because she freaking fainted one time. She's just as sharp as she ever was 8 years later.


    Age and age-related (5.00 / 3) (#145)
    by KeysDan on Fri Jul 12, 2024 at 01:12:02 PM EST
    conditions need to be looked at for both candidates. Both are elderly, Biden, 81/Trump, 78.  Both have physical limitations that we can observe, Biden slow gait (broken foot bone), Trump difficulty with ramp, overweight, took golf cart with world leaders instead of walking. Biden not overweight. Neither drink alcohol. Life expectancy for 81-year old male is 7.82 years; for a 78-year old male, 9.43 years.  Biden soft spoken but cogent; Trump boisterous but unhinged.

    And Roosevelt made that joke (none / 0) (#139)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jul 12, 2024 at 11:30:38 AM EST
    that got him reelected about his little dog from a wheelchair and was dead 6 months later.

    I don't think many Democrats are worried about Biden being president.

    The concern is he is not able to take the fight to Trump and win this election.
    That outburst last night about guns that was intended to show he can be vigorous just looked like more like tourettes.  

    I've been behind Joe.
    But he is slipping.  Watch a video from the 20 campaign or ever more recent.  Like one I saw from 2022.
    The decline is stark.  And something seems to have happened in the last year or so.  And I think it's accelerating.

    I'm not doctor.  But I am a political observer.  I would vote for him if he was in a coma.  But I afraid he is not up to a presidential campaign for the next 5 months.


    I thought some of the most hopeful stuff (5.00 / 2) (#141)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jul 12, 2024 at 11:40:14 AM EST
    from last night was that he spoke about possibly stepping aside.  He praised Kamala again and again.
    He said he would take neurological tests.  He said if polls said he could not win he would go.  And he is right, they do not say that now.  

    The debate did not change the polls.

    He seemed entirely mentally there last night.  He will do what's best.


    That said (none / 0) (#140)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jul 12, 2024 at 11:33:26 AM EST
    I think he is politically in a better position today than he was 24 hours ago.

    Yes, (none / 0) (#142)
    by KeysDan on Fri Jul 12, 2024 at 12:35:47 PM EST
    President Biden has been hit with Molotov cocktails for two weeks and now there is a worry that he is on fire.  However, the throwers need to be prepared to augment Biden's built-in sprinkler system with a lot of garden hoses.  

    I'd agree (none / 0) (#143)
    by coast on Fri Jul 12, 2024 at 12:59:54 PM EST
    I didn't watch the news conference, but heard enough to gauge that President Biden likely did enough to save himself...for now.

    A lot of my Republican friends are actually thankful that he did do well, as it puts Democrats in a difficult spot, especially for those who have already called for the President to step down.

    So long as there is continued discourse among the Democrats, Republicans need to just sit and keep quite.  The sooner Democrats can silence the naysayers the better off the party will be.


    Repubs sre not going to be quiet (5.00 / 2) (#149)
    by Towanda on Fri Jul 12, 2024 at 01:53:39 PM EST
    in the coming week. Protests planned in my Milwaukee.

    Four thousand cops coming from outside the city.

    And a temporary change in law to keep bars open until 4 a.m., at the request of the RNC.

    What could go wrong?


    MTG (none / 0) (#153)
    by FlJoe on Fri Jul 12, 2024 at 02:42:01 PM EST
    and Boebert fight at 4:15AM? Sarah Palin passed out at the bar getting groped by Matt Gaetz?

    You could argue (none / 0) (#144)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jul 12, 2024 at 01:07:25 PM EST
    it was the worst possible outcome for democrats.  Not bad enough to end it but not good enough to end the discussion.

    It insured the status Quo.


    The (5.00 / 1) (#146)
    by KeysDan on Fri Jul 12, 2024 at 01:22:35 PM EST
    Battle of the Somme.

    Well (none / 0) (#148)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Jul 12, 2024 at 01:41:02 PM EST
    not all Republicans have been quiet but they have hid Trump out at his golf course not letting him leave. Only rally was at his own course.

    Republicans seem to think there will be no repercussions to running an adjudicated rapist, fraudster and felon. Maybe there won't be.


    Repubs sre not going to be quiet (none / 0) (#150)
    by Towanda on Fri Jul 12, 2024 at 01:55:46 PM EST
    in the coming week. Protests planned in my Milwaukee.

    Four thousand cops coming from outside the city.

    And a temporary change in law to keep bars open until 4 a.m., at the request of the RNC.

    What could go wrong?


    Stand corrected (none / 0) (#151)
    by coast on Fri Jul 12, 2024 at 02:15:00 PM EST
    Completely forgot about the convention.  That could work in Biden's favor.

    Yes (5.00 / 1) (#154)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jul 12, 2024 at 02:57:04 PM EST
    a week of wall to wall coverage of Trump and MAGA will make things look different to many.

    Very much this! (none / 0) (#156)
    by vml68 on Fri Jul 12, 2024 at 03:01:00 PM EST
    I don't think many Democrats are worried about Biden being president.

    The concern is he is not able to take the fight to Trump and win this election.

    I think most of us would vote for Biden even if he were dead to stop Tr*mp. But, are there enough of us?

    I am worried about the youth vote and the "Independants". Can we convince them to vote for a Biden that is not "on" all the time.


    Here's some good news (5.00 / 2) (#157)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jul 12, 2024 at 03:12:42 PM EST

    Giuliani's Bankruptcy Dismissed
    July 12, 2024 at 3:46 pm EDT By Taegan Goddard 15 Comments

    A judge dismissed Rudy Giuliani's Chapter 11 bankruptcy, removing a shield that for six months froze two Georgia election workers' efforts to collect their $148 million defamation judgment, The Hill reports.

    Washington Post: "The decision by U.S. Bankruptcy Judge Sean Lane in the Southern District of New York comes nearly seven months after Giuliani sought bankruptcy protection after he was ordered to immediately pay millions in damages to Ruby Freeman and Shaye Moss, two Georgia women he falsely accused of helping to steal the 2020 presidential election."

    I have been a staunch defender of Joe (none / 0) (#11)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jul 06, 2024 at 10:55:15 AM EST
    But its getting harder.  

    Allowing that whole debate disaster to happen in the first place is almost unforgivable.

    That it took them a week to come back with any response is again baffling beyond belief.

    What they have done and are doing is not enough.  Not even close.

    That interview with George was only marginally better than the interview.
    I know Biden has always said dumb things but he simply can't do it anymore.

    They need to get control of this situation.  I don't know how they do that but if they don't Monday will the the beginning of the end when Congress gets back in town.

    The good news is there's a deep bench of people who could beat Trump.

    I am not sure Kamala is one of them.

    Out your big kid pants on with belt and suspenders.   It's going to get messy.

    The good news is it's July.

    The one (5.00 / 2) (#23)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Jul 06, 2024 at 02:57:31 PM EST
    Thing we don't need us an open convention where a fight breaks out

    Two things to keep in mind: (5.00 / 5) (#46)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Jul 06, 2024 at 08:39:21 PM EST
    • President Biden has already clinched the nomination. Delegates to the national convention in Chicago have already been selected at state party conventions this spring and are already pledged to him on the first ballot. (Disclosure: I'm one of them.) Thus, it's Joe Biden's exclusive call whether or not to continue and nobody else's, despite what some members of the Beltway / N.Y. punditariat are saying. He would have to formally release his delegates for us to consider another candidate. Any attempt to usurp the convention by Sen. Mark Warner, et al., and drive Biden off the ballot will face a lot of resistance from delegates like me.

    • Federal election campaign funds are not transferable between candidates. Further, state and local campaign funds are not transferable to a federal campaign should a governor, mayor or state legislator decide to run for federal office. Because VP Kamala Harris is already on the Biden-Harris ticket, she can access the monies that she and Biden already raised. But other presumptive candidates who don't have a federal campaign fund already set up, such as Gov. Gavin Newsom (D-CA), will need to start from scratch. The $200 million war chest Newsom raised for his gubernatorial campaigns will do him no good in a presidential race.

    Personally, I think an open convention three months out from Election Day is entirely problematic. Were Biden to drop out - and again, that's his call and not ours - there needs to already be consensus on who his replacement will be. From my vantage point, for reasons I cited above, I'll vote for VP Harris.

    As you noted, this entire episode was unfortunate. Now, Democrats need to turn their fury on Donald Trump and pound the living daylights out of him nonstop from now until November 5. He's the issue here, not Joe Biden. And for heaven's sake, let's please not listen to the bedwetter caucus, i.e., Mark Warner, Tim Ryan, Abigail Disney, Nate Silver, David Axelrod and the Obama podbros. They're trying to swiftboat Joe Biden, and that's the dumbest thing we can do right now.



    The bed-wetters you mention (5.00 / 1) (#67)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Jul 07, 2024 at 03:27:39 PM EST
    are not doing what they do because they are brave leaders.   Quite the opposite.  They are responding to their constituents.  I expect this to get worse after the democrats conference call this afternoon.  Adam Schiff was pretty blunt this morning.  Google it.  Things could happen quickly next week.  This weekl

    The problem as I see it is the media.  I'm not sure there is anything democrats can do to change the narrative.

    Democrats can't, as you say, turn their fury on Donald Trump when every question, every interview, ever interaction with anyone starts and ends with questions about Biden.

    Biden looks and sounds like an old man.  That's all anyone but the base is going to see.  That's all the media is going to talk about. I'm not sure Biden can change that.

    As far as Kamala, I think she is the most beautiful obvious choice.  Not the best choice.  I personally think going any other way is risky.  More risky than running her against Trump?  I don't know.

    But I can tell you there's going to be blood on the floor either way.  


    Update (none / 0) (#68)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Jul 07, 2024 at 03:31:28 PM EST

    Reps. Jerry Nadler, Mark Takano, Don Beyer, Joe Morelle, and Adam Smith said President Biden should step aside as the Democratic presidential nominee during a private House Democratic leadership call this afternoon, Punchbowl News reports.

    Most of the lawmakers said Vice President Kamala Harris should be the party's nominee.

    Susan Wild (none / 0) (#80)
    by jmacWA on Mon Jul 08, 2024 at 05:19:32 AM EST
    This monring, my congress critter has now said she no longer supports Biden.  Maybe the dam is starting to break

    It's not up to them. It's not their call. (none / 0) (#103)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Jul 11, 2024 at 01:05:40 AM EST
    The nomination of a president and vice president is strictly a party function, not a congressional one. They don't control this; we do. They will court a backlash and smackdown from delegates if they try to usurp that role for themselves. It's not 1968 anymore. The smoke-filled backroom wheeling and dealing at conventions is generally a thing of the past. The party's rank-and-file delegates are with Biden until he releases us.

    No idea how the word "beautiful" (none / 0) (#70)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Jul 07, 2024 at 03:46:05 PM EST
    Got into that comment.   Damn spell check

    It's not (none / 0) (#74)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Jul 07, 2024 at 05:58:38 PM EST
    really the narrative from the press. The problem is Biden is not doing what he needs to do to reassure people and in fact is not only not reassuring people he is alarming them.

    It is Depressing to Listen to Biden (none / 0) (#47)
    by RickyJim on Sat Jul 06, 2024 at 08:40:07 PM EST
    Trump makes me mad but Biden makes me sad.
    President Biden sought to steady his re-election campaign by talking with two Black radio hosts for interviews broadcast on Thursday, but he spoke haltingly at points during one interview and struggled to find the right phrase in the other, saying that he was proud to have been "the first Black woman to serve with a Black president."
    Some more cases of inability to articulate well here.

    Immunity Decision (none / 0) (#59)
    by RickyJim on Sun Jul 07, 2024 at 11:58:32 AM EST
    I've listened to several podcasts and read several articles about what the Supreme Court's July 1 decision means but haven't encountered a discussion of the following section the the US Constitution:
    Article I  
    Section 3 Senate
    Clause 7 Impeachment Judgments
    Judgment in Cases of Impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from Office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, Trust or Profit under the United States: but the Party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial, Judgment and Punishment, according to Law.
    It seems that a President can be impeached for "official acts" and then be put on trial for them.  In that case, is the recent SCOTUS decision abrogated entirely?  I hope somebody can point me to an explanation.  TIA

    Sorry, I Didn't Include This (none / 0) (#60)
    by RickyJim on Sun Jul 07, 2024 at 12:08:30 PM EST
    Article II  Executive Branch
    Section 4 Impeachment
    The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.

    Footnote 3 Seems to be the Key (none / 0) (#63)
    by RickyJim on Sun Jul 07, 2024 at 01:28:51 PM EST
    to understanding what the decision says about this matter but I can't understand it.  After all, I am older than Biden.  :-)

    Footnote 3 is an attempt to "explain" (5.00 / 1) (#65)
    by Peter G on Sun Jul 07, 2024 at 02:17:11 PM EST
    the part of the majority opinion that restricts the prosecutor's use of evidence probing an "official act," even in cases where an "official act" is not charged as having been the commission of the crime itself. It does not address the critical issue about the core immunity holding that arises under the (once thought to be) clear language of the Constitution itself. The opinion states,
    "The Clause both limits the consequences of an impeachment judgment and clarifies that notwithstanding such judgment, subsequent prosecution may proceed. By its own terms, the Clause does not address whether and on what conduct a President may be prosecuted if he was never impeached and convicted. ... [And] that Clause does not indicate whether a former President may, consistent with the separation of powers, be prosecuted for his official conduct in particular.
      ... The President enjoys no immunity for his unofficial acts, and not everything the President does is official. The President is not above the law. But Congress may not criminalize the President's conduct in carrying out the responsibilities of the Executive Branch under the Constitution. ... The President therefore may not be prosecuted for exercising his core constitutional powers, and he is entitled, at a minimum, to a presumptive immunity from prosecution for all his official acts."
    The reason (or at least one of the reasons) you cannot understand the majority's holding and the rationale for its opinion, particularly in light of those provisions of the Constitution, is that the decision makes no logical, principled, or textual sense.
       Footnote 3 seems to say, in particular, that a President can be prosecuted for soliciting or accepting a bribe in exchange for granting a pardon, for example, but cannot be prosecuted for granting a pardon in exchange for receiving a bribe. Nor can a former president, if prosecuted, nor any adviser, be asked whether receipt of a bribe affected the decision to grant a pardon, if one was granted (although the bare fact that the pardon was granted can be presented in evidence, they say). Any conviction for bribery requires proof of a "quid pro quo," yet the "pro," so to speak (that the act was done or to be done in exchange for the payment) is what cannot be inquired into. Yet the majority says, at the same time, that they are not barring a prosecution of a former president for bribery while in office. This all surpasses understanding, you might say.

    SCOTUS also gave bad actors a road map ... (5.00 / 2) (#104)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Jul 11, 2024 at 01:26:24 AM EST
    ... on how to properly buy influence with public officials by simply withholding their payoff until after they've done your requested bidding, and then it becomes a gratuity.

    The Roberts Court is the worst Supreme Court I've ever seen. They're just piling up one Dred Scott-level decision after another. Stare decisis has been run over several times by Clarence Thomas' luxury RV that Harlan Crowe purchased for him, and its body has tossed aside into a roadside drainage ditch.

    Scary to watch what's happening to our country, and it's all been self-inflicted. As Walt Kelly's Pogo once quipped, we have met the enemy and he is us.



    The gratuities decision was wrong (none / 0) (#131)
    by Peter G on Thu Jul 11, 2024 at 08:28:58 PM EST
    in my opinion, but it is being misrepresented. The Court only held that one particular federal law (18 USC 666) that penalizes corrupt payments to state and local officials in connection with larger federal contracts and programs reaches bribery but not gratuities. The decision did not legalize gratuities generally, and in particular has no bearing on the conduct of any federal official, and no bearing on any state's own laws.  It only interpreted this particular federal criminal statute (mistakenly, in my opinion) that applies to certain local officials, but nothing more than that.

    Is the dam about to break? (none / 0) (#69)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Jul 07, 2024 at 03:36:28 PM EST
    As a commenter at Political Wire I have so far been a member of a rapidly shrinking minority arguing for the president to stay.
    But I have to say there's nothing here I disagree with

    It Feels Like the Dam Is Ready to Burst on Biden
    July 7, 2024 at 4:20 pm EDT By Taegan Goddard Leave a Comment

    The first video clip released by ABC News of President Biden's interview with George Stephanopoulos on Friday night was his response to whether he had watched video of the presidential debate afterward.

    His response: "I don't think I did, no."

    That's not a great answer for someone being watched by millions for signs of cognitive decline. It's certainly something you think he would remember.

    But far worse was Biden's response when asked: "If you stay in and Trump is elected and everything you're warning about comes to pass, how will you feel in January?"

    Said Biden: "I'll feel as long as I gave it my all and I did the good as job as I know I can do, that's what this is about."

    Forget for a moment about the jumbled syntax -- though that was really not helpful either.

    Biden was essentially saying that as long as he tried his hardest, then he would be satisfied with the result.

    Giving it the old college try is hardly what Democrats wanted to hear.

    The only correct answer to this question was: "I'm going to beat Trump again. If I didn't think so, I wouldn't be in this race."

    You rarely get multiple chances in a political crisis like this.

    That's why another handful of Democrats are now saying Biden shouldn't be the party's nominee. And a White House aide said the same, though anonymously.

    It feels like the dam is breaking.

    adam Schiff (none / 0) (#72)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Jul 07, 2024 at 05:54:28 PM EST
    had the best statement of anybody on this. The last statement about giving it his best try alarmed him. It alarmed me too. He never fully got the problem with Trump and the GOP in 2020 and now seems less so.

    I watched (none / 0) (#75)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Jul 07, 2024 at 06:04:23 PM EST
    a podcast with Rick Wilson. It soothed me. He said focus on Trump, getting rid of Trump and making sure he never sees the white house again. Whomever the person is for that mission doesn't matter. I think it does matter BUT the focus on Trump and his criminal associates keeps me sane. So I keep pointing out all Trump's flaws and idiocy to stay focused on the mission at hand.

    Who really knows (none / 0) (#76)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Jul 07, 2024 at 06:57:18 PM EST

    Democratic Senators' Biden Huddle Called Off
    July 7, 2024 at 7:28 pm EDT By Taegan Goddard 63 Comments

    "Senate Democrats won't meet Monday to discuss their support for President Biden continuing his re-election bid, despite an effort by Sen. Mark Warner (D-VA) to organize such a meeting," Axios reports.

    "Warner's meeting had been seen as a potential watershed moment for Senate Democrats, who have remained largely silent on Biden's future amid calls for him to step aside."

    The media (none / 0) (#77)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Jul 07, 2024 at 07:17:29 PM EST
    apparently screwed the pooch on their reporting with Warner and Lieu. What else is new? It's like they are creating drama for the sake of drama.

    Joe took a page from Trump (none / 0) (#81)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jul 08, 2024 at 10:23:03 AM EST

    and called in live to Morning Joe

    I think it was smart.  He was feisty and on.  Late but more of this please.

    Also he's now running against "elites".  That usually is a good plan.

    Another finger in the dike (none / 0) (#85)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jul 09, 2024 at 10:41:29 AM EST
    so to speak

    Jerry Nadler Appears to Flip on Biden Support
    July 9, 2024 at 11:16 am EDT By Taegan Goddard 11 Comments

    Rep. Jerry Nadler (D-NY) expressed support for President Biden continuing his 2024 run despite reports Nadler previously said in a private meeting he wanted Biden to withdraw, CNN reports.

    Said Nadler: "Whether or not I have concerns is besides the point. He is going to be our nominee and we all have to support him

    I think this has (none / 0) (#86)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jul 09, 2024 at 10:42:55 AM EST
    turned back in Bidens favor.  For now.

    A stumble on Thursday at the press conference, and it's over.



    Yes, (none / 0) (#87)
    by KeysDan on Tue Jul 09, 2024 at 11:29:44 AM EST
    It seems that way to me, too.   The NATO conference offers a good opportunity for the president. ..  The press conferences need to have enforceable rules of conduct.  The press briefing yesterday, by Karine Jean-Pierre, was awful.  The jackals were like little kids who asked and got an answer, but did not like the answer and continued onward.

    Yes, (5.00 / 1) (#94)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Jul 10, 2024 at 04:52:23 AM EST
    the press conference is going to be a test that he must pass.

    This is a repeat of but her emails from 2016. There will never be an answer they like.


    It would be an opportunity (none / 0) (#88)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jul 09, 2024 at 12:09:13 PM EST
    to show some fight.  Let's cross our fingers he takes this one.

    So (none / 0) (#91)
    by FlJoe on Tue Jul 09, 2024 at 07:59:59 PM EST
    we have to hold our breath every he speaks in public for the next 4 months?

    Did you watch 'The Daily Show', yesterday? (5.00 / 1) (#92)
    by vml68 on Tue Jul 09, 2024 at 10:57:26 PM EST
    I thought most of Biden's gaffes happened while speaking extemporaneously.
    Stewart had a clip of Biden reading the instructions on the teleprompter as part of his speech, on three different occasions.
    Maybe all of this has already been on the news and I was not aware because I have only been paying attention to Tr*mp's criminal cases, but I was shocked when I saw the clips.

    I can sorta buy the "had a cold" excuse for being out of it at the debate but the teleprompter gaffes are frightening.

    I am not going to make it through four more months of this.


    Yeah, (5.00 / 1) (#95)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Jul 10, 2024 at 04:53:08 AM EST
    it is nerve wracking for sure. Unless he can somehow calm down everybody about all this everyone will worry.

    Trump kindred spirit. (none / 0) (#90)
    by KeysDan on Tue Jul 09, 2024 at 02:05:47 PM EST
    Judge Joshua Kindred(age 50),appointed to Federal District Court in Alaska, resigned July 8, after a sexual misconduct investigation showed he had sexualized relationships with his female law clerks. And lied about it. The sordid charges were brought to the attention of the Ninth Circuit Court in 2022.  Kindred assumed his judgeship in 2020, Senators Manchin and Sinema joined all Republican senators in confirmation.

    Prior to his judgeship, Kindred was  director for the Alaska region of the US Department of Interior, and prior to that Environmental Counsel to the Alaska Oil and Gas Association.

    "Who exactly is trying to push (none / 0) (#105)
    by leap2 on Thu Jul 11, 2024 at 12:44:23 PM EST
    Biden out? A lesson in where political power really lies in America"

    Robert Reich knows.

    The donors... (5.00 / 2) (#107)
    by kdog on Thu Jul 11, 2024 at 02:33:52 PM EST
    are just concerned about their ROI.

    I think good chunk of Brand D voters are genuinely concerned he can't win in the condition he is in, and/or is now unfit after having been fit.

    The other guy has never been fit for it, never will be fit for it, and is also way to f*cking old but no one is talking about that because his words never made sense even before old age and unhealthy living turned his brain into bigger mush.


    It's too bad that Reich didn't... (none / 0) (#106)
    by desertswine on Thu Jul 11, 2024 at 02:15:07 PM EST
    see fit to mention just who these "biggest donors" happen to be, other than George Clooney. that is.  The power of the billionaires and the American oligarchs over the political system must be broken.

    It looks like nobody wants Biden (none / 0) (#108)
    by desertswine on Thu Jul 11, 2024 at 03:15:40 PM EST
    to roll over and play dead more than MSNBC.  Its
    their sole topic of conversation.

    CNN (none / 0) (#109)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jul 11, 2024 at 04:02:21 PM EST
    Is worse.

    Yes (5.00 / 1) (#111)
    by FlJoe on Thu Jul 11, 2024 at 04:08:01 PM EST
    please make it stop, they are now making it sound like Biden has been a vegetable for the past year and somehow it has been hidden from us.

    I stopped my cable news viewing (none / 0) (#110)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jul 11, 2024 at 04:06:04 PM EST
    a few days ago.  I just cancelled my membership to Political Wire.  

    It's probably too late.  I think for the haters at this point it's just about winning.

    The argument.  Not the election.


    Biden (none / 0) (#113)
    by FlJoe on Thu Jul 11, 2024 at 04:17:40 PM EST
    is absolutely sub-optimal as a candidate and even as President for four more years.

    Did I mention sub-optimal NOT the apocalypse, come on people lighten up.

    Matter of fact, Democrat's putting themselves in sub-optimum positions seems to a time honored tradition.    


    I sense a slightly different tone (none / 0) (#161)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jul 12, 2024 at 06:23:37 PM EST
    on the talk shows today.  Lots of Biden boosting.

    If you can believe half of what is being reported (none / 0) (#112)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jul 11, 2024 at 04:10:13 PM EST
    there is a wave of democrats waiting until the presser is over to come out publicly

    Because, reportedly, Nancy and others advised them to do that.  And to wait until after NATO.

    we will see.
    I don't think there is any performance Biden could deliver that will shut them up.


    I think Trump will lose (none / 0) (#114)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jul 11, 2024 at 04:21:42 PM EST
    if Democrats are united.  I hope, and expect, if Biden is pushed out he will work to unite the party behind Kamala or whoever.

    My fear is if he stays it will never be united.  They will never stop.  They will never drop it.
    It will be 2016 all over again.

    It's probably going to be up to Joe.  I think he will come thru.


    Damn little of that these days. (none / 0) (#115)
    by Chuck0 on Thu Jul 11, 2024 at 05:18:57 PM EST
    I have turned off the news. Don't even watch Joe in the morning. It's been nothing but hand wringing about Biden. Day after day after day. Nothing about the Orange Moron and Epstein (something about a 13 year girl). Nothing about the stupid cr@p he says day after day after day.

    Democrats need to knock all this off and unite around Biden.


    I agree (5.00 / 1) (#132)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Jul 12, 2024 at 09:02:52 AM EST
    Biden showed he is an elderly man but with a sharp mind and completely in control of the facts. I would love to see Trump asked the same questions but I doubt the press ever will.

    There are rumors that Obama told Clooney to write that piece for the NYT. If true pretty disgusting.

    All the people that want to push Biden aside have never really said what their plan is other than a "mini primary". Who is said primary going to be before? Delegates only at this point?

    I have come full circle on this issue...replace Biden all the way back to rally behind Biden now.

    The real losers in all this is the press. They look like complete idiots basically saying Biden couldn't put 2 words together. Who will ever listen to their opinions again? Not me for sure.  


    I too think Joe Biden has a sharp mind. (5.00 / 2) (#134)
    by Chuck0 on Fri Jul 12, 2024 at 09:52:59 AM EST
    He knows his stuff, he knows what he wants to say, but it just doesn't translate from his mind to mouth.

    I'm only 65 and I have similar issues. Especially when I'm typing something. I know what I want to say but it doesn't always translate correctly from my brain to my fingers.

    I watch Jeopardy every night (thanks Joe for pre-empting last night). I don't have the recall that I used to have. Often, I know the answer to a question but I just can't seem to put it into words. Or I can visualize someone in my mind, but can't seem to find the name when I know who the answer. Doesn't mean I'm feeble or demented. I'm sharp as ever. I stayed with my job to work a special project that requires extensive programming. I write code to transform XML everyday. No one else in the company (a large company) has the skills to do what I do. So I know my brain is still working.


    Politico reported (5.00 / 1) (#135)
    by KeysDan on Fri Jul 12, 2024 at 09:58:39 AM EST
    that George Clooney "reached out to Obama to give him a heads-up".  that he would be publicly pressuring President Biden to drop out.  Certainly, Clooney has access to President Biden and could have expressed his opinion directly to him, rather than craft an article for publication in The NY Times--that was eagerly welcomed, no doubt.

    It is surprising to me that President Biden's poll numbers are not worse than they are what with relentless attacks for almost two-weeks by members of his own party and the Media (with just few exceptions).  


    Obama (5.00 / 1) (#138)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Jul 12, 2024 at 11:09:52 AM EST
    should have attempted to put the kibosh on that but maybe he did and maybe he gave him the go ahead. Maybe the Obama bros on the attack were encouraged by Obama. Only he can answer those questions. I was never a huge Obama fan and this doesn't help.

    Also some thoughts are that Biden has been more successful than Obama and Obama is green with envy. Obama could have done a lot more. Frankly of the last 3 D presidents I would rank Obama third.


    I (none / 0) (#116)
    by FlJoe on Thu Jul 11, 2024 at 05:51:57 PM EST
    have been watching these press "frensies" for years and this is possibly the broodiest I have ever seen.

    Shark Week indeed!


    Its going to be (none / 0) (#117)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jul 11, 2024 at 05:54:11 PM EST
    Wild I expect.

    Bloodiest (none / 0) (#118)
    by FlJoe on Thu Jul 11, 2024 at 05:55:38 PM EST
    that is, I guess broodiest could be used to describe the Democrats at this time.

    Like (none / 0) (#120)
    by FlJoe on Thu Jul 11, 2024 at 05:58:52 PM EST
     like we are in some modern day Shakespearian tragedy.

    It is a great opportunity (none / 0) (#119)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jul 11, 2024 at 05:57:15 PM EST
    If he can take it.  If he can take on the press zombies he could come out of this looking good.

    I think the press has done an excellent job of making Biden a sympathetic figure.  Especially to old people


    I've started to think (none / 0) (#121)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jul 11, 2024 at 06:22:38 PM EST
    he's going to announce he is stepping aside

    So far (none / 0) (#122)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jul 11, 2024 at 06:46:03 PM EST
    he is not making it easy for the haters

    Its not bad (none / 0) (#123)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jul 11, 2024 at 06:55:26 PM EST
    but I don't think it's changing anything.  So far

    A (none / 0) (#124)
    by FlJoe on Thu Jul 11, 2024 at 06:57:15 PM EST
    bit mumbly and rambling, but well tethered to reality, switches around every question around to answering with what a great job he is doing, which is exactly what he should he done in the debate.

    Probably won't change many minds anyway, Americans are deranged, not just the wing nuts, but all of them Katie.

    Make it stop.


    I dunno (none / 0) (#125)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jul 11, 2024 at 07:01:43 PM EST
    he is doing very well.  If he does this for a couple of hours I think it might change the conversation.

    Keeping (none / 0) (#126)
    by FlJoe on Thu Jul 11, 2024 at 07:16:00 PM EST
    up a strong performance, wonky and a bity wordy but sure seems to know what he is talking about and isn't wandering off subject much ay all. Kind of a lot of wandering within the subject though, it is Biden after all.

    Yeah (none / 0) (#127)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jul 11, 2024 at 07:18:29 PM EST
    he has done a good job of using stupid questions to talk about what he wants.

    all (none / 0) (#128)
    by FlJoe on Thu Jul 11, 2024 at 07:35:40 PM EST
    and all, a strong performance, the early pundits  take on CNN seem mixed at best

    Surprisingly positive (none / 0) (#129)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jul 11, 2024 at 07:37:56 PM EST
    on MSNBC

    Biden is speaking in Detroit (none / 0) (#162)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jul 12, 2024 at 06:32:37 PM EST
    He's doing well.  And he is not leaving.  

    That rally (none / 0) (#164)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Jul 12, 2024 at 07:03:22 PM EST
    is awesome! People screaming we got your back.

    The MSNBC worm (none / 0) (#165)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jul 12, 2024 at 07:08:06 PM EST
    has turned.  All afternoon they were very pro stay the course.  After that great speech they are all in.  They are giddy.

    So far.

    That's important.


    One interesting (none / 0) (#166)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Jul 12, 2024 at 07:14:43 PM EST
    tidbit the press seems to have missed or misinformed on is the GOP platform changing its stance on abortion. The press seems to think this is great but you should listen to the actual voters. There are voters where this is the SINGLE issue for them. They think "saving babies" is the most important work ever. So I started going around social media to see what people who I knew this was an issue for and boy are they ticked off. I was really surprised because I figured they would take it lying down like they do everything for Trump. They say they are out, are not voting. You can threaten them with Biden and they just don't care. I will have to follow up later and see if they get in line but I thought it was interesting that this issue largely has gone under the radar. They also are not all that happy with Amber Rose speaking at the GOP convention.