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Thursday Open Thread

By Jeralyn, Section Blog Related
Posted on Thu Jul 06, 2006 at 10:13:19 AM EST
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I'm not seeing much news yet today, here's an open thread for you to chat away.

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    Thursday Open Thread | 42 comments (42 topical)
    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#1)
    by scribe on Thu Jul 06, 2006 at 10:35:05 AM EST
    Totally off topic: what did you do on July 4? For me, it was off to a u-pick-em orchard for this year's supply of sour cherries, then a visit to Dad for dinner (with cherries a part of dessert). On the drive home, I was flipping through stations and wound up listening to a sports-talk radio station. At one point, the host said to the callers: "You guys have made me out to be the voice of reason here, and I'm uncomfortable with that." Then he went to break. That, it seems to me, was one of the more trenchant (and brief) criticisms of the MSM ever spoken.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#2)
    by Edger on Thu Jul 06, 2006 at 10:36:02 AM EST
    Apparently an FBI Database was hacked, according to The Washington Post via RawStory.
    "A government consultant, using computer programs easily found on the Internet, managed to crack the FBI's classified computer system and gain the passwords of 38,000 employees, including that of FBI Director Robert S. Mueller III," Eric M. Weiss will report in Thursday editions of The Washington Post
    What goes around comes around?

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#3)
    by scribe on Thu Jul 06, 2006 at 10:43:02 AM EST
    There was a report on some of the Euro-news that someone in England found a major anti-terror plan, in a roadside ditch. The plan had all sorts of exigencies outlined, response plans, anticipated which buildings/facilities/events would be the likely targets, etc. Apparently, a British Army officer left it, with his gym clothes, in his car while he went into a supermarket, whereupon the car was broken into, the stuff stolen, and then dumped in a ditch. Here's a link.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#4)
    by Edger on Thu Jul 06, 2006 at 10:47:35 AM EST
    Scribe - Sounds like a Faulty Towers script for 'auntie' terrism. :-/

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#5)
    by oldtree on Thu Jul 06, 2006 at 11:50:10 AM EST
    My name is George W. Bush and this is my confession. I have decided it was time now that Kenny Boy is dead meat and I don't have the death threat he put on me with the mob if I talked. He found out about me and never really trusted me. It has been very hard for me to do what I feel I have had to do for these many years. I was given the opportunity to have a life of ease, and privilege. It is hard for me to describe how I feel about this. At first I thought it was fun, but I played the game and pretended to be what they wanted me to be. I realized I hated my family only later in life, as I had done what they said and did not speak my own feelings to anyone. I must do so today, for it is something for which I am deeply ashamed. My father and his father encouraged our family to do anything to get ahead. This involved conspiring with the Nazi's and many other governments that caused millions of deaths to maintain control over the countries that they dominated. He detailed his dealings with various members of the government and how he could control them, and taught us how to do this and how to take advantage of any situation. He has admitted to so many acts that sicken me that I can't go into it now, my disclosure is in the form of a manuscript that I have been compiling for a number of years. Other members of my family have done things that are so repugnant to me that I have documented them and the courts can decide the punishment. At this time I am going to name the people that have done acts of sedition and treason within my government, and other governments of past administrations that I have personal knowledge of. During the Reagan administration, my father worked with the entire administration to do numerous high crimes expressly prohibited by laws. There goal and mission was to work around any law, and change any one quietly that they could. They have documents relating to crimes against humanity, war crimes, individual murders for hire, and numerous financial crimes directing government employees to commit bribery and provide favors for numerous individuals and governments all over the world for profit. There was never a clear indication of the cause for promoting one despot over another. It was often a matter of whim and experiment to see an outcome in a region that was of no other interest. During my father's administration, there is virtually no statement by the government on any of the issues that faced them that were conveyed truthfully to the American public. This is how I learned to simply bypass the normal methods, and knew that the only important thing was to be elected for the second term so that the actions could continue unabated. This is the one thing that has caused my father to hate and attempt to destroy all the people involved with his downfall as president. The facts are in the documents, I will not go further into them now. During the Clinton administration, I know of selected facts that may fill in the holes that some investigations may require, but I am not privy to that much information, as my father has only become friendly with the Clinton's in recent years to diffuse their interests and monitor their actions for the GOP. I am telling you this, and the following information about my administration so that this country can go back to a democratic, republican form of government as it was intended, and as it basically progressed up until some presidents overtly acted outside the bounds of the laws. I have to at this time admit that my entire administration is involved in an ongoing conspiracy to commit various crimes. Some I will list now, others due to my overt, yet covert involvement are very painful to me. I have had to endure the criticism of so many, to accomplish what I have sought, and the facts will now become public record. My administration has been involved since 3 years before my first election in vote tampering throughout the United States and it's territories to insure the election of a majority for the GOP. Diebold and all the other voting companies have been on the payroll since my father's loss. They could not control the election of President Clinton, but did manage to make it look far closer than it actually was. We have had a unavoidable majority of democratic voters in each state for many years, but their votes have been negated by means of tampering that is really ingenious, but can now be stopped. My administration has not been the first to build a "pay to play" as the media describes it, but it has been the cornerstone of the day to day policies. The goal was to award contracts to those able to purchase the right to have said contracts. It is becoming more and more obvious each day that incompetence is predominantly affecting this, and I believe this whole scam would have become apparent very soon due to reasons expressed later in this confession. Mr. Abramoff is only one of many thousands of players bribing congress, the executive and the judicial branch. He is now working with prosecutors to save himself. I have to say that only some of the judicial branch have taken bribes from my party to act in accordance with the wishes of the sponsors. I will give those that have done so the right to retire now or I will expose them and insist on testifying at their trials of impeachment and treason. I do not wish to soil the Supreme Court any further than it has been all ready making decisions obvious to so many Americans that are not balanced, and do not have any basis in precedent. So many of our fine jurists have retired and expressed their outrage, that I ask the American people to re-instate these individuals and thank them for trying to do things in a legal manner. There are numerous justices outside the Supreme Court that have acted for us under some type of pressure and monetary reward. There are some that were coerced, and the situations I know of are listed in the document. I have had a private staff doing research to list the offenders. The profits made by various corporations and individuals as a result of insider trading are also listed. My staff has reports of profiteering on at least 35,000 occasions involved with Iraq alone. The crimes are many, and there are no companies that got no bid contracts that did not pay for that privilege. Many of these companies are actively controlled by members of my administration and congress persons directly. This is an illegal act in itself, but the actions of these people will still have the power to surprise many. the Iraq war was sponsored by nations in the mid east to raise awareness for their needs. They all receive funds and donations from countries all over the world, and the permanent bases that we are establishing to stabilize oil production. Plans have always been foremost to eliminate elements within the countries to discourage any change of government that might not agree and be a signatory to the conspiracy to maintain oil pricing at as high a level as the world economy will allow. I personally have made 4.6 billion dollars as incentives from various organizations that lobby to affect the outcome of all laws created, and enforcement actions, throughout the world. I do know that Mr. Cheney has mentioned making a figure described as around 8 billion on his control of various corporations, and his ability to procure their profit making capacity. The GOP is not alone in this, you will find that many others have done so, and we have a partial list, but will provide the insider trading information that has come from the NSA wiretaps of every citizen in this country and their activity. The current plans to attack Iran and other oil producing nations can be verified by the military personnel that are at this time working with teams to instigate actions in these countries. Military and CIA officials have the records and all will become public knowledge in the documents. I have done this because of the hatred I have for my family and the people they work with to undermine democracy all over the world. There is no concept of family as the media portrays it. I have been told what to do. I have been set up in accidents and drug arrests to assist in controlling me, via the threat of leaked information. I have been blackmailed by several people in the know of the facts, and they have had me work to do their bidding. My father made sure that everyone that he knew in Congress was able to use that against me if it was to promote their agenda, and I was warned by my staff to comply. My staff are employed by a company that will become obvious in the forthcoming documents. I have never understood how they could not figure out that I was not a willing participant. I only had to act greedy and I have to admit I was allowed to be as egotistical as any historical figure that I have ever seen described. I now believe that because this was a common denominator to these people, that they may not have been able to recognize a fellow member of their club as anything but. They are very single minded of purpose. A direct goal was to control the religious fanatics, as their leaders were part of the corruption that originally made me begin this process of compiling the information. The "religious right" are part of a few corporations that control what religion says, and how the government says it for them. I was encouraged to play religion in a way no one had before, as my "handlers" rightly figured that it would appeal to the religious factions, and those that they could frighten into compliance with almost anything after the designed destruction of the World Trade Center. I wish that I could have stopped this, but I found out when I was told that it was going to happen, and that it was necessary to prevent a larger event that was stopped. I was never told what the larger event was. I believe it was a ploy to gain my silence with a veiled threat. I believe it was the last test by the handlers to find out if I was truly on their side. The conspirators attempted to convince me that a few thousand in New York City were less important than what it would do for our party's control over the people of this country, and their desire to change the laws and the constitution for their purposes. I have done what I have done proudly. I apologize for what I have done to those that have been wronged. I hope that what I will accomplish will help to prevent it from happening again. The Republican party has been one only concerned with corruption and control of all aspects of American life since the Eisenhower era. It started with a few, and then became mandatory that anyone involved had to swear loyalty to this "alternate" government. It became more obvious with the Reagan years. There are many in the Democratic party that are deeply involved with these issues as well. Some are tools, some were very active participants. All are named below. I believe it is time to reveal those that are involved in this so that the law of this great country can be followed. I hope that the people will demand control over their future, and remove the corrupt members of the government that have betrayed them. My private staff has records that will shock everyone except for those involved. The entire White House staff is guilty, except for a few rare exceptions that have always expressed their belief that what was being done was illegal. Except for a few that quit, those that have been assisting the legal collection of data on crimes are listed and should be held in high esteem as the heroes they have become. They have risked their lives to infiltrate organizations actively working to subvert our government to a totalitarian regime, cloaked in the appearance of democracy. There are 385 people at this time in our Judicial, Legislative and Executive branch that will be brought up on charges by Mr. Patrick Fitzgerald and a legal staff of hundreds that have been working secretly to go into action to prevent them from destroying records or doing any further harm to our country. There are approximately 4300 more that are working for these elected officials that will also be brought up on charges. Assets have been frozen, currently 58 governments of sovereign nations have frozen assets totaling over 8 trillion dollars as of this writing. We are working on the sudden access to some 140 trillion dollars earned illegally by profiteering that goes back some 40 years. This is being done as I speak to you. The government will seize all of these assets immediately and the wealth will be redistributed to a vast number of people and institutions that have suffered from the actions of a few for over 60 years. Universal health care will be instituted immediately on my executive order. There will be no payments for any citizen of the United States or any alien resident residing in our country legally, or those working here for betterment of their families here and abroad. The military will be brought home to begin the process of rebuilding the region devastated by the hurricane. They will be supervising the employees of the various companies that have profited by the corrupt actions. The owners and directors of these companies will be working side by side with the laborers, but will not be paid, and will receive only food, medical care and shelter until the job of restitution is complete. I also hereby order the minimum wage for any rebuilding projects to go to $19 per hour to allow for a way of life that is compliant with the American dream. I am ordering all social services that have been rejected or terminated to be re instated immediately. The people of this country will no longer pay the rich to get richer while they suffer. The oil companies will be sharing the technology they have been hiding for more than 60 years about free and renewable resources that would have allowed both clean air and free energy to all the people of the world. They will be implementing this technology at their expense until all the world is working on clean technology that allows each to enjoy a quality of life equal to that of any other nation. In a move to insure that the corrupt governments of every other nation in this world will comply to the same policies immediately, I have put key personnel in charge of the nuclear arsenals that we control all over the world and they await my instructions to disable all nuclear facilities. Due to Microsoft's being willing to help, we have disabled the mechanism for communication in all the countries of the world at this time and only those that we choose will still function. No computer systems will function, as we have disabled all of them due to built in control that no one has ever been able to discover. All satellites have been under our control and those of you all over the world watching this with your translation can attest to what I am saying. I am taking this action to be sure that the human race has a future. I have been told that it has not, and it was my decision to be certain that such an outcome would not come to pass. I will jail the persons that would consider this type of action against innocent peace loving peoples. At this time we will go into a secret mode and in hiding until the many thousands of active criminals with the ability to do harm are arrested and jailed in the various locations developed for such a purpose. There are only 15 nations denying help for this project, and they have been neutralized for the duration of this crisis. Again, the documents are extensive, but they are as complete as could be without tipping the hand on the actions to free the people of the world from the oppression that would have likely continued until the destruction of the planet and people due to the actions of a few. I could not wait any longer for reasons you will soon find out.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#6)
    by Patrick on Thu Jul 06, 2006 at 12:07:27 PM EST
    Umm, question. Did anyone read the post above this one?

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#7)
    by desertswine on Thu Jul 06, 2006 at 12:11:22 PM EST
    That's way too long to read. Maybe if you printed it out and took it home...

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#8)
    by Edger on Thu Jul 06, 2006 at 12:11:46 PM EST
    Part of it, Patrick. The first paragraph would have been enough, with a link.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#9)
    by scribe on Thu Jul 06, 2006 at 12:17:28 PM EST
    More is emerging on the Iraqi rape-murder case. The LA Times has an extended article interviewing the neighbor/relative who was the first into the building after the accused left. A couple of things stand out: the number of shots "would have drawn the Americans", the people who did this were in the house for about two hours, the neighbors have described them as wearing dark shirts and military pants, the deceased also had two younger brothers, who were not present and survived, and the 15 y/o girl had her head smashed with either a concrete block or a piece of iron (in addition to being raped, murdered, and set afire).

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#10)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Jul 06, 2006 at 12:18:30 PM EST
    The first sentence was enough, Patrick.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#11)
    by scribe on Thu Jul 06, 2006 at 12:23:09 PM EST
    Welcome to New York!
    "A man grabbed two cordless power saws off a subway station workbench and went on a rampage Thursday, swinging the saws at riders and slicing open a man's chest before running away, police said.
    The suspect was wielding a saw in each hand, and carrying a teddy bear, too.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#12)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Jul 06, 2006 at 12:28:27 PM EST
    It appears that the recent activities of the NYT are not new. This from the AnericanFuture.
    Murdock quotes U.S. attorney Patrick Fitzgerald as having said this in a August 7, 2002 letter to the Times' legal department: "It has been conclusively established that Global Relief Foundation learned of the search from reporter Philip Shenon of The New York Times . . . [this tip-off] seriously compromised the integrity of the investigation and potentially endangered the safety of federal law-enforcement personnel."
    And then from the NRO Link we learn that our old friend Judith Miller
    called the Holy Land Foundation in fall 2001, soon after 9/11, to seek "comment" on an anticipated federal freeze on their bank accounts. Such "government action was imminent," federal prosecutors say Miller told the charity's leaders. The FBI searched the allegedly terror-tied foundation's offices the day after the Times ran Miller's article. Learning that the heat was on, who knows what evidence terror suspects spent hours destroying?
    Shenon is still employed by the NYT. Miller is gone. You have to wonder where these peoples' heads were at when they did this.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#13)
    by BigTex on Thu Jul 06, 2006 at 12:53:25 PM EST
    Patrick - Read the first 3 sentences. If it is still in place when I get back from class tonight, will read the whole thing... it looks like a mildly amusing piece fo satire. NY and GA high courts both upheld homosexual marriage bans today. GA is not a suprise but NY? Wow! source

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#14)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jul 06, 2006 at 12:56:03 PM EST
    TL wrote about this almost 2 years ago, PPJ, don't you have anything more up-to-date? I wish you would quit bringing up stuff that make the Bush Administration look bad, do you realize by bringing up the fact that nothing was done in this case only emboldens America's enemies?

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#15)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jul 06, 2006 at 01:19:28 PM EST
    Hi I'm a Canadian who regularly reads talk left but also regularily views the "sanitation of reality" in the mainstream US media. There's a disturbing trend emerging these days on one side of the political spectrum in the US that I thought we would never see. And I'm not talking about GWBco. The right wingers continually fog the debate with their ridiculousness, (Ann Coulter, Fox News & the ridiculous assult on the NY Times to name a few). But the thing that stands out the most is the LEFT's willingness to debate on these points. Coulter is continually mentioned in left wing blogs. There's a reason that for the past 4 weeks HannityInsanity Attack has opened with the headlines "COULTER CONTROVERSY" because they want you to get lost in a debate about duck woman. WHO IS THAT WOMAN, and why do you ppl concern yourselves with what she says, along with everything that the political right throws at you? I read in a recent blog that most american's have accepted the fact that "we're not in kansas anymore" refering to the fact that your basic rights and freedoms that make America what it is have been removed. Well how can you accept this view and at the same time continue to debate with the poliright on their terms? It's time to call these Jackals for what they are, mount a serious political revolt and live up to your reputation as the home of the brave, and start kicking some serious ass. If you're truly not in kansas anymore, last time I checked $8mil an hour killing poor ppl is a pretty good indication, then the rules of engagement with your government have changed. They're taking away your rights, you should take away their ability to govern. What amazing power structure does the US have that the citizens cannot shift the debate on their terms? The regime's of Iran, Lebanon, Cuba, Columbia, the list goes on and on and on, we're much more brutal than that of the US adminstration, and they couldn't hold the ppl down. So why can GWBco hold you down? (Seriously now, is a series of left wing blogs the best you can do?) peace btw. the level of "spin" knows no bounds. in the first stage of the attack on fallujah in 2004, American soldiers stormed FGH (Fallujah General Hospital) tied the patients hands behind their backs so they couldn't escape and proceeded to bring the building down citing the fact that "The hospital had been a considerable propaganda machine for the enemy, continually reporting civilian deaths" HA! Chomsky Rules!

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#16)
    by Patrick on Thu Jul 06, 2006 at 01:25:19 PM EST
    I read in a recent blog that most american's have accepted the fact that "we're not in kansas anymore" refering to the fact that your basic rights and freedoms that make America what it is have been removed.
    Take off eh. You hoser. They have not. Try drinking a beer on your front lawn if you live in Ontario. I can still do that.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#17)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Jul 06, 2006 at 01:29:52 PM EST
    Dark Avenger - Doesn't hurt to remind us just how screwed things are.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#18)
    by Slado on Thu Jul 06, 2006 at 02:21:37 PM EST
    Deepr13, As a non american I will give you the benifit of the doubt but save your worry for your own disfuntional counrty that has its own issues to deal with that I know nothing about since I don't live there and we'll worry about the "rights and freedoms" of our great country. BTW a late Happy Canada Day to you! (July 1st)

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#19)
    by Peaches on Thu Jul 06, 2006 at 02:37:09 PM EST
    Slado, nice advise to deep. Perhaps, we could have been as erudite before we preemptively invaded Iraq. We still could bring our troops home now and leave Iraq to Iraqis. Afterall, we don't live there either.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#20)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jul 06, 2006 at 02:45:10 PM EST
    PPJ, be honest, you're trying to blame Bush without mentioning his name, but it won't fly here :)

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#21)
    by Slado on Thu Jul 06, 2006 at 02:56:06 PM EST
    Touche Peaches. Being ignorant I looked up erudite... Erudite comes from the Latin adjective rudtus, "well-instructed, learned," Wouldn't an erudite leader be correct in invading Iraq? Meaning that we'd "learned" a lesson from 9/11 and invaded with a long term goal in mind of actually solving the middle east problem instead of with the short term goal of satisfying foreign and even Canadian critics? Wouldn't we be "well-instructed" by the orignal WTC attacks, the cobal tower bombings, the attack on the Cole and 9/11 that no appeasement is sufficient when it comes to Islamic faccism and a new course of establishing democracy in the middle east would be the best course?

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#22)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Jul 06, 2006 at 03:38:16 PM EST
    Dark Avenger - We have two journalists who have tipped of people who were about to be raided, and you think that is okay. Doesn't surprise me.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#23)
    by john horse on Thu Jul 06, 2006 at 03:56:41 PM EST
    There have been over 2500 American soldiers who have been killed in Iraq, and Bush has not attended a funeral of a single servicemember. Why? "Because which funeral do you go to? In my judgment, I think if I go to one I should go to all. How do you honor one person but not another?" Bush said. Past Presidents have attended funerals for those slain in the line of duty. They attended out of a sense of responsibility. Attending funerals made them realize that war isn't a game, something that should ever be undertaken for light and transient reasons. However, by Bush's line of reasoning, since they didn't attend every funeral of every soldier killed in the war, they were dishonoring those whose funeral they did not attend. I didn't think it was possible but Bush's bullsh*t has reached new levels. Poor George. In order to not honor one slain soldier more than another, he dishonors them all equally.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#24)
    by Edger on Thu Jul 06, 2006 at 04:22:55 PM EST
    deeper13:
    The right wingers continually fog the debate with their ridiculousness, (Ann Coulter, Fox News & the ridiculous assult on the NY Times to name a few).
    It doesn't matter if you're from the moon or mars or anywhere else, you are absolutely right. It is the content and message of your post, not the messenger or the messengers location, that should be debated. You are also, I think, right on the money with:
    the thing that stands out the most is the LEFT's willingness to debate on these points.
    I agree that those people and points are the achilles heel of the right, and that the left is too often sucked into debating things that deserve no consideration or discussion. Diversion, misdirection, attack, lies, and slandering the messenger are all the right has to offer since there is no logical intelligent basis for any of their views and arguments. Period.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#25)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jul 06, 2006 at 04:44:39 PM EST
    PPJ, it's not okay with me, or I wouldn't object to your obvious purpose in talking about it and therefore giving aid and comfort to our enemies abroad. If it hadn't have happened, no doubt you'd find something else to b**** and moan about the current folks in office, not the actions of a loyal American patriot, IMHO. TTFN.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#26)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Jul 06, 2006 at 05:37:22 PM EST
    Dark Avenger - It is obvious that you have had a relapse into your spelling disease... I mean, you. Condemning the NYT? Say it aint so, Joe.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#27)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Jul 06, 2006 at 07:23:47 PM EST
    You know, they say, follow the money.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#28)
    by jondee on Thu Jul 06, 2006 at 08:04:22 PM EST
    The Left uses MONEY ?!! And to think they had me fooled into thinking that they relied solely on the barter system, sustainable technology, and the power of faith and community to get their message out. Im truely appalled.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#29)
    by jondee on Thu Jul 06, 2006 at 08:14:59 PM EST
    Ah recommen' readin' Hiram Evans as an anti-dote ta that smart ass, agitatin', Neeew York Times.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#30)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jul 06, 2006 at 08:40:19 PM EST
    "Take off eh. You hoser. They have not. Try drinking a beer on your front lawn if you live in Ontario. I can still do that." Hey Patrick, I don't think you want to debate basic rights and freedoms with a Canadian, we might be passive, even weak in american eyes, but we can still drink your asses under the table (you call budwiser beer? that's what comes out of our kitchen taps, lol) And as for true rights and freedoms, we can still walk down the busiest street in downtown Toronto smoking a fat spliff of the finest BC bud you'll never know, without a police officer even batting an eyelash, try doing that in the GOOD OL US of A HA! SLIIIIP- PEACE "As a non american I will give you the benifit of the doubt but save your worry for your own disfuntional counrty that has its own issues to deal with that I know nothing about since I don't live there and we'll worry about the "rights and freedoms" of our great country. BTW a late Happy Canada Day to you! (July 1st)" Slado, See I agree completely with you, we should mind our own business. But when Grand OL US of A puts an illegal 27% tariff on our softwood lumber companies simply because WE REFUSED to fight in your ILLEGAL WAR and refuse to support your ridiculous first strike space weaponry, IT BECOMES OUR PROBLEM. Any Takers? And if you consider Canada dysfunctional, maybe you should ask the people of new orleans how functional FEMA really is? Or you could ask the people of New York how the current adminstration has decreased their chances of another terrorist attack? Or you could ask the people in jail locked up for 20 years for selling $100 worth of crack why jeffrey skilling will only get 5-10 years? *3 separate UNITED STATES NAFTA Courts have ruled that the US must pay over 6.3billion in back tarriffs to the canadian government. and they still impose it.*

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#31)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jul 06, 2006 at 08:53:51 PM EST
    We have two journalists who have tipped of people who were about to be raided, and you think that is okay.
    No, we have two journalists that Bush's minions say tipped off people. What became of those charges? Nothing!!! The allegations were denied:
    A Times lawyer, however, denies the allegation, and says the charity would have expected the raid anyway since other charities had been busted.
    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#32)
    by jondee on Thu Jul 06, 2006 at 09:00:54 PM EST
    deeper - Dont sweat it. These are the same chumps that go into conniptions every time they're reminded that they represent 35% of the country. They go to bed wrapped in in a flag and sucking their thumbs secure cuz-nobody's-better-'n-us.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#33)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jul 06, 2006 at 11:12:40 PM EST
    Didn't say anything about the NYT, PPJ, but at least you've quit scapegoating Bush for the evening, so that's progress.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#34)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Jul 07, 2006 at 08:11:51 AM EST
    Debbie - From your link:
    A Times lawyer, however, denies the allegation, and says the charity would have expected the raid anyway since other charities had been busted. All this stems from an investigation into who leaked sensitive information to the press just after the 9/11 attacks, and the Justice Department has subsequently requested post-9/11 phone records from Shenon and a co-worker. The Times is now suing to block the request.
    No, what you have is a denial, not a fact. Plus, we get the old, "Well, I didn't really hurt anything," defense. And the NYT is fighting the charge, rather than providing requested information that, if the NYT's attorney is correct, would have proven the JD wrong. That doesn't give me a warm and fuzzy feeling that it didn't happen. In fact, it makes me believe it did. BTW - Glad to see you have started watching FNC. Jondee - Thanks for bringing up one of my favorite President's. Hey folks! Jondee is speaking out his patut again. Read the article! You know, Jondee has generated more hits on the site in the past two months than it has had in two years. Thanks again, Jondee. We need folks like you. Deeper13 writes:
    and refuse to support your ridiculous first strike space weaponry, IT BECOMES OUR PROBLEM. Any Takers?
    Hmmmm. My memory says the issue is that we were going to be trying to hit INCOMING missiles aimed at the US and Canada over Canada's northern territories.... Now that is not "first strike." Oh well, when North Korea's missles hit Ontario, or Vancouver, you can at least quit worry about the evileee US and its tariff's. BTW - Don't bother with the CSM article. It's BS from start to finish and merely repeats the fact that Canadians are more comfortable believing North Korea than the US. I wonder how your fellow countrymen feel this morning.... Of course you do have a new PM.. ;-)

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#35)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jul 07, 2006 at 09:01:11 AM EST
    Hey Jimaka, Perhaps you should try taking the whole quote. I'm not even going to argue about the star wars crap, if you actually read any scholarly literature on the subject your opinion will be quickly converted. And you have nothing to say on the war eh? I thought so. Btw seriously I know GWBco likes to shift the threat to other countries, but what are the chances that if Mr. Il had a nuke he'd a) launch it at all, b) choose ontario as the destination. LOL you american right wingers are really out there. One more thing USgov goes around invading countries WITHOUT WMD's. What message does that send to countries that currently have disagreements with the US? GET WEAPONS OR BE BUSHBOMBED. That's what north korea's nuke program is about, not world annihalation. And since the US has not lived up to its end of the NPT, or for that matter most any other international treaty, what responsibility does any other government have to do the same?

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#36)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jul 07, 2006 at 09:07:11 AM EST
    How about this one Jimaka, USgov continues to impose an illegal embargo on Cuba, but that embargo only applies to OTHER COUNTRIES. The US continues to trade with Cuba and denies access to Canadian Companies. In fact, the US is one of the top 5 trading partners with Cuba, try finding that on FNC.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#37)
    by squeaky on Fri Jul 07, 2006 at 09:25:57 AM EST
    The NYT reports
    A decade after the Pentagon declared a zero-tolerance policy for racist hate groups, recruiting shortfalls caused by the war in Iraq have allowed "large numbers of neo-Nazis and skinhead extremists" to infiltrate the military, according to a watchdog organization.
    How do we know?
    "We've got Aryan Nations graffiti in Baghdad," the group quoted a Defense Department investigator as saying in a report to be posted today on its Web site."That's a problem."
    At least that will discredit the notion prevalent amongst Iraqis that all Americans are right wing Zionists.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#38)
    by jondee on Fri Jul 07, 2006 at 03:32:02 PM EST
    ppj - Mead writing about Jackson is like Ann Coulter writing about Nascar and "man's man Pat Tillman" or Bush brush clearin' for the cameras. The elite of the elite who've never gotten their hands dirty idealizing the joys of getting one's hands dirty. Who do you thinks buyin' it? I mean, other than you and the rest of the 35%?

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#39)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Jul 07, 2006 at 10:06:59 PM EST
    Jondee - The man wrote what he wrote, and I quoted it. If you care to address what he said, have at it. That you do not proves that you are incapable of an honest debate. Thanks for the complaints. The more people read, the better they will know Jondee. deeper13 - All I know is that we needed Canada to help out by agreeing that we could plan on hitting the incoming missiles over the northern terrorities... And you guys refused.. Now go hide under your bed. We know all about you... eh??

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#40)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Jul 08, 2006 at 01:19:06 AM EST
    That you do not proves that you are incapable of an honest debate. And PPJ knows more about the incapacity to engage in a honest debate than anybody else who posts here. All I know has been demonstrated to fit inside a fleas' navel with room left over for 2 caraway seeds, to paraphrase Fred Allen. Now go hide under your bed. PPJ will be under his shortly, now that the Left finally moved out from that venue, and, as with many other feats, PPJ is better at it than you are............

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#41)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Jul 08, 2006 at 09:06:29 AM EST
    Jimaka, ALL I KNOW is not an arguement, since clearly you know very little. If GWBco was truly interested in preventing a first strike, they would have scrambled jets to take down planes heading towards WTC. They clearly have no interest in that. What they want is protection from retaliation due to their own attacks against a country that may have more than a couple of missles, say china for example. You really think that GWBco is concerned if one N.Korean nuke hits the mainland? The US has enough nukes to annihalate the known world. That's detterent enough, again what they want is protection from reaction to their own aggression

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#42)
    by Edger on Sat Jul 08, 2006 at 09:13:34 AM EST
    Deeper13:
    what they want is protection from reaction to their own aggression
    Well said, Deeper. It goe farther, though - they want to characterize their own aggression as defense to justify it, and convince everyone to believe that their thru the looking glass logic makes sense.

    Thursday Open Thread | 42 comments (42 topical)