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Iraq Rape and Murders May Have Caused Soldiers' Kidnappings, Beheadings

By Jeralyn, Section War In Iraq
Posted on Wed Jul 05, 2006 at 04:56:51 AM EST
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The investigation into former soldier Steven Green, charged with raping a teenage Iraqi girl and murdering her family, is taking a new turn:

Military officials initially had believed that the three soldiers attacked in the town of Yousifiya were selected because they were in a vulnerable position when separated from the rest of their unit. But as information about the alleged rape-killing has emerged, so have new theories about the kidnapping-murders.

"Was it a target of opportunity or was it a warning: don't do this to our women?" said the military official.

Were the June kidnappings, murders and beheadings of U.S. soldiers in Yousifiya revenge for the March rape and killings in Mahmoudiya? It makes sense to me. The towns are very near each other. But what I don't understand is why only Green was charged. Another soldier, referred to as KP1, also allegedly raped the girl.

According to accounts provided to investigators by other soldiers, Green and took several other soldiers with him to a nearby house intending to rape the woman. Green, according to an affidavit submitted by FBI Special Agent Gregor J. Ahlers in support of the arrest warrant, killed the woman's parents and young sister, raped the woman along with another soldier, then shot her in the head and set her body on fire.

There were four soldiers who went to the residence, knowing that the plan was for the girl to be raped. They are referred to in the affidavit as SO12, SO13, Green and KP1. You can read the affidavit for Green's arrest here. Page 6 lays out the events and players.

Amid the more disgusting details, provided by S012 and SO13 who have cooperated with authorities: They go to the house, SO13 stays in front on guard, the other three go in the house. K1 smacks the girl down in the living room, Green goes in the bedroom, shoots and kills her three family members. SO13, hearing the shots, comes in the house. Green comes back out to the living room where Green and KP1 rape the girl, after which, Green shoots her and kills her. SO12 tells SO13 to get rid of the AK-47 Green used to kill them all.

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    Iraq Rape and Murders May Have Caused Soldiers' Kidnappings, Beheadings | 25 comments (25 topical)
    Re: Iraq Rape and Murders May Have Caused Soldiers (1.00 / 1) (#17)
    by squeaky on Wed Jul 05, 2006 at 05:32:58 PM EST
    There is NO WAY that Iraqi insurgents would have missed a chance to pass themselves off as "protectors of Iraqi women" if they knew they beheaded the soldiers for that reason.
    We have a specialist of Iraqi culture in our midsts. Perhaps s/he can go over there and help our troops to read the tea leaves. The insurgents are just like the Mafia, great point. You expertise is sorely wasted here. With you advising our troops we can win in a matter of weeks. Can't wait to hear more about the psychology of the insurgents direct from the field. See ya, and don't forget to write.

    Re: Iraq Rape and Murders May Have Caused Soldiers (none / 0) (#1)
    by Rick B on Wed Jul 05, 2006 at 02:04:00 AM EST
    Green had been in the Army eleven months by the time he was discharged for an unspecified personality disorder. The discharge occurred after the rape/murder. He was a problem for the command at platoon and company levels, and they got rid of him. Quietly, so as to not disturb the higher commanders. To discharge him it had to go through battalion S1 (Personnel.) The three soldiers at the traffic control point were set up. Someone attacked the group and ran. Part of the group left to chase them, leaving the three troops at the traffic control point. One was killed, two were captured, tortured, beheaded and left to be found. These three soldiers were ~in the same platoon~ as Green had been. For purposes of payback, being in the same platoon as the rapist/murderers is the same as being in the extended family, so they were responsible to the extended family four Green killed. The rape/murder very probably led to Green's discharge, and was almost certainly known to everyone in his platoon, his company commander and first sergeant, the battalion commander and XO, and the Battalion Personnel section. This is at a minimum. The hullabaloo caused by the capture of the two soldiers brought the entire U.S Army in the Iraq command out in force, and included - what was it? - some 6,000 soldiers searching for them over the weekend until the bodies were found? That tore to top off the cover up within the 502d bn. It was exposed in the debriefings after the deaths of the three soldiers. I can understand your genteel use of the term "~may have caused~ the soldier's kidnappings, beheadings." but for this to all happen in the same single platoon is just to unlikely to be a reasonable coincidence. Especially when connected to the discharge of the prime suspect for some unspecified "personality disorder" after he has only been in the Army for a total of eleven months. Gimme a break. Every bit of this stuff is connected. That discharge itself is very unlikely to have occurred to anyone. That it happened to the person identified as the prime suspect in a rape/murder shortly after the crime happened is too unreasonable to be a coincidence. By the way, notice that Green was a high school dropout with a GED. Prior to the invasion of Iraq, he would not even have been allowed into the Army. The standards had to be lowered a lot just to get him in, and look what happened as a result. High school graduates are a lot less likely to be this kind of discipline problem. But the Army wasn't making the enlistment quotas, remember? I'd really like to know Green's training and discipline record prior to March. This is what is meant when people say that our ground forces are "broken" but the repeated tours and lowered standards caused by the war in Irag. That rape/murder should be blamed directly on Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld for invading with too few troops and then for not expanding the troops available when they decided not to get out as Iraq got hotter. The primary blame will always be on Green, but the political leaders set the conditions up so that it had to happen somewhere - and probably has happened elsewhere. I would like to see Green recalled to active duty and court martialed under articles 118 (Murder) and 120 (Rape), both of which carry the death penalty, particularly if the crime was premeditated as these were. I would not be a good person to have on the Board, however. Looks like he will be tried as a civilian, though. I'm not sure why the civilian courts have jurisdiction.

    Re: Iraq Rape and Murders May Have Caused Soldiers (none / 0) (#3)
    by Punchy on Wed Jul 05, 2006 at 07:07:43 AM EST
    Looks like he will be tried as a civilian, though. I'm not sure why the civilian courts have jurisdiction. I would love to have a lawyer explain this to me. The crime was obviously committed while a solider. All the witnesses are military. All the evidence collected was by the military. So why is he tried in a civilian court? This all stinks of a huge coverup. Get him out of the military as fast as possible, so as not to taint the 502 when the truth comes out. Try him in civilian courts so as to distance themselves from the military...I've officially given up believing/trusting anything our active military leaders tell us anymore.

    Re: Iraq Rape and Murders May Have Caused Soldiers (none / 0) (#4)
    by cmpnwtr on Wed Jul 05, 2006 at 08:17:36 AM EST
    The story by AP this morning is he was diagnosed with anti-social personality disorder. That's short for "no conscience." As a mental health clinician it bothers me they would put a gun in a person's hands and a license to kill without checking first if they were of that diagnosis. The prisons are full of anti-social personality disorders. It's the usual diagnosis for serial killers.

    Re: Iraq Rape and Murders May Have Caused Soldiers (none / 0) (#5)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Jul 05, 2006 at 08:31:50 AM EST
    With this whole incident, the DOD and the U.S. Army seems to spin the media, including NPR and CBS. The DOD report wants to make the victim a woman of 25 years of age. But the neighbors say she was a school girl only 15. Who do I believe? The neighbors of course who knew the girl and her family. Rumsfeld and the Army brass want this to blow over, want to minimize the atrocity. The neighbors, according to the Washington Post, say that the victim confided in her mother that the American soldiers were harassing her at a check point each morning that she went to school. She was afraid that they would attack her, and they did in her own home. Yet Rumsfeld and the Army want to hush hush that she was only a child. This just goes to show what Bush has wrought with his preemptive war. He is the ultimate war criminal Roberto in Utah

    Re: Iraq Rape and Murders May Have Caused Soldiers (none / 0) (#6)
    by Che's Lounge on Wed Jul 05, 2006 at 08:35:41 AM EST
    The neighbors, according to the Washington Post, say that the victim confided in her mother that the American soldiers were harassing her at a check point each morning that she went to school Yeah but it was a freshly painted school. Why do you people always focus on the bad news?

    Re: Iraq Rape and Murders May Have Caused Soldiers (none / 0) (#7)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Jul 05, 2006 at 08:50:07 AM EST
    Seeing a couple of comments about the possibility of an initial cover-up of the horrible incident in Mahmoudiya, I would note the following issues seem to be raised by a careful reading of the FBI Affidavit supporting the warrant for Steven Green's arrest: (1) para. 13 of the Affidavit indicates that "fifteen crime scene photos" had been provided to the Affiant by the Army's CID, and further indicates that bodies appeared in the photos. (2) since the actual rape and murder occurred during the evening of March 11, 2006 (paras. 8, 9 and 12) bodies would clearly have been removed from the scene of the crime before the "combat stress debriefing" of "on/about 06/20/2006" when the crime was "discovered (para. 6). If the crime scene photos predate the 6/20/06 debriefing, why were they taken, and if as part of an investigation, what did it conclude? Is anyone following up with a FOIA Request to get all relevant CID files? (3) the references in the FBI Affidavit as to the initial US awareness of the incident are a little bit contradictory - - para. 5 states the incident was brought to the attention of US forces "about 1730, 03/12/2006" by "three unknown Iraqi males" while para. 12 indicates that notification was received from "an Iraqi National on 03/11/2006." If the incident indeed came to light on March 11, 2006, the very day of the alleged incident, what kind of follow-up was there? (3) since the FBI affidavit para. 5 reference to the three unknown Iraqi males, continues that the incident occurred "in their house," and since news accounts have mentioned that the girl who was raped had three brothers who were not at home when the incident occurred, was the initial report made by those three brothers? If so, what did they say, especially in light of news reports now indicating that the young girl's family had expressed fears for the safety of the girl because of advances by US troops?

    Re: Iraq Rape and Murders May Have Caused Soldiers (none / 0) (#8)
    by Edger on Wed Jul 05, 2006 at 09:51:40 AM EST
    roxstar: Our national reputation, and our position of world leadership which is based upon that reputation, is at grave risk. IN the eyes of the world the US national reputation is not at grave risk. It's gone. Evaporated. Squandered. Shredded. Pissed away by heartless deceitful greedy little conscienceless killers and turned into:
    We have become a Nazi monster in the eyes of the whole world-a nation of bullies and bastards who would rather kill than live peacefully. We are not just Whores for power and oil, but killer whores with hate and fear in our hearts. We are human scum, and that is how history will judge us... No redeeming social value. Just whores. Get out of our way, or we'll kill you. Hunter S. Thompson, Kingdom Of Fear


    Re: Iraq Rape and Murders May Have Caused Soldiers (none / 0) (#9)
    by soccerdad on Wed Jul 05, 2006 at 10:04:26 AM EST
    We are hated in latin America and the ME because of the history of our policies and actions there. England, or at least its current leader, stands by us only because they still harbor delusions of imperialistic grandeur.

    Re: Iraq Rape and Murders May Have Caused Soldiers (none / 0) (#10)
    by scribe on Wed Jul 05, 2006 at 10:05:08 AM EST
    re: prosecuting him as a civilian. While he had been technically discharged, he was subject to being recalled because the UCMJ provides for the military justice system to put a former soldier back in uniform to attend and be prosecuted in his court-martial for crimes allegedly committed while in service. To get to the point of putting this defendant back in uniform for a court-martial, first the federal courts have to acquire jurisdiction (by having him arrested), then the military will apply for a court order (in federal court) to have the military exercise jurisdiction through a court-martial. What's surprising (in the context of the current admin's behavior) is just how quick and easy it was to get this guy into the justice system. The documents look like, uhh, pre-printed forms all set up for just this sort of use - like someone had actually thought through how to get a former service member or person accompanying the US armed forces into the court system for alleged crimes committed while in or accompanying US forces overseas. Shocking then, that private security contractors accompanying US forces overseas somehow can't be haled into court to face charges for their atrocities. As to the commenter above about how personal the killings of the captured soldiers were, I said that Friday and again over the weekend. The locals knew exactly who did this and whom they would exact revenge upon. It was not a coincidence that all these soldiers were from the same platoon. As to the commenter above disturbed over the military's recruitment and retention of a person with an anti-social disorder, well, the easy answer is that when recruiting's tough, they'll take anyone. By way of example, remember that Jeffrey Dahmer served in the Army, back in the 70s. Realistically, a substantial-enough-to-make-it-matter portion of the soldiers in combat arms are borderline anti-social personality disorder, either before they come in or after they develop it going through basic. The Army has a soft spot for them; they're very aggressive (a good thing in the Army)and the key thing in dealing with them is keeping them pointed in the right direction. So long as they figure out that if they stay within the lines, they can shoot machineguns and brawl and get paid for it, the Army loves to keep them. And, if they become too much of a problem, they get to go home and stop shooting machineguns because the Army will get rid of them like they did with this guy.

    Re: Iraq Rape and Murders May Have Caused Soldiers (none / 0) (#11)
    by scribe on Wed Jul 05, 2006 at 10:37:09 AM EST
    On further review, I note that Steve Gillard has uncovered that Defendant Green was part of the Army's PR on how effective their programs in pacifying Iraq are. That's right: right up there on the Army News Service is PFC Green patrolling the streets near where he and his buddies would kill an underage woman after raping her and killing her whole family. (Hat tip to The General for linking) Two points. This heightens my suspicious re just how valid Green's chapter for mental disorder was, because I and officers I served with would never let one of the resident nut-jobs (and everyone knows who they are) anywhere near a reporter, from Army News Service or anywhere else. Second, it seems likely to me the other rapist has not been charged (to public knowledge) because he'll flip one way (uphill) if charged, and another (on Green) if not. I think the chain of command knew about this atrocity long before the press or the "combat stress debriefer" (that briefing discovering a guilty conscience is possible, but not likely to my eyes) did, and wanted nothing more than to make it go away. Indeed, it has struck me as absurdly curious that, in a time when recruiters are signing up the autistic to be cavalry scouts, and soldiers fourteen or more years discharged are getting recall orders to drive trucks, this PFC was discharged on a chapter while his unit was involved in combat operations. The last thing one would do is discharge the guy (unless he had turned into a drooling idiot and, even then, you'd try to keep him around as a waterboy or KP or CQ runner or something) because (A) someone would have to do all the scut details he could be put to work doing and (B) you're not likely to get replacements. And, I'd suspect the putative coverup goes well above company level, because chaptering a soldier out requires signatures from higher-level commanders, especially in a tight recruitment market. Most likely, to be fair, any more senior officer would just be told (assuming he questioned "why discharge this guy?") something to the effect of "he's a real nut case, his fellow soldiers are afraid of him, and "you really need to do this, sir", leaving out the details.

    Re: Iraq Rape and Murders May Have Caused Soldiers (none / 0) (#12)
    by Dadler on Wed Jul 05, 2006 at 10:42:20 AM EST
    I come old friend From hell tonight Across the rotting sea Nor the nails of the Cross Nor the blood of Christ Can bring you help this eve The dead have come to claim a debt from thee They stand outside your door Four score and three. The Pogues "Turkish Song of the Damned"

    Re: Iraq Rape and Murders May Have Caused Soldiers (none / 0) (#13)
    by Edger on Wed Jul 05, 2006 at 10:58:19 AM EST
    Scribe - You've been giving us some great dissection and reasoned analysis of what's going on here. Thanks.

    Re: Iraq Rape and Murders May Have Caused Soldiers (none / 0) (#14)
    by Punchy on Wed Jul 05, 2006 at 11:04:37 AM EST
    and since news accounts have mentioned that the girl who was raped had three brothers who were not at home when the incident occurred, was the initial report made by those three brothers?
    Feeding the Insurgency 101. Chapter 1; coming home to find your entire family slaughtered, sister raped, everyone burned, bullet holes in everyone, and the casing matching U.S. Army. Chapter 2; having it covered it up and ignored like it never happened.

    Re: Iraq Rape and Murders May Have Caused Soldiers (none / 0) (#15)
    by scribe on Wed Jul 05, 2006 at 11:39:23 AM EST
    Thanks, edger. I'm just trying to (a) help and (b) make sense of a bad situation. I digress; IMHO blogs are a way for societies to thrive, because they allow people from all sorts of backgrounds and millieus to meet on a level playing field - that of reason and good will. I recall (as likely do you) seeing too many media reports about this study or that, saying people listen to attractive people more than they do unattractive, and all the rest. In the blogosphere, no one gives a sh*t about whether you wear clothes from a designer or from Target, nor whether you've the looks of a model or, uh, not, nor whether you're an Ivy grad or a steelworker, nor whether you were captain of the football team or the wheelchair-bound guy. All that matters is parsing issues with a modicum of intelligence and respect for the others. If you're bogus or mean-spirited, you'll show that soon enough, and then no one will listen. Thus endeth the sermon.

    Re: Iraq Rape and Murders May Have Caused Soldiers (none / 0) (#16)
    by Edger on Wed Jul 05, 2006 at 04:46:15 PM EST
    "Was it a target of opportunity or was it a warning: don't do this to our women?" said the military official.
    Rogan - If it was a warning to troops on the ground there to "don't do this to our women" as official suggested it may have been, then it looks like the point has already been made, the message has been received, and they have no need to "announce to the world", as US military officials there are already considering that possibility.

    Re: Iraq Rape and Murders May Have Caused Soldiers (none / 0) (#18)
    by Sailor on Wed Jul 05, 2006 at 06:34:44 PM EST
    If soldiers didn't talk in PTSD treatment
    got a link there pal?
    There is NO WAY that Iraqi insurgents
    Exactly, they aren't insurgents, they are family member avenging their own ... because the US wouldn't have and the Iraqi couldn't due to 'immunity' that we forced them to sign at gunpoint. BTW, turn this around; If an occupying army raped your sister, killed her and the family, wouldn't you want revenge!?

    Re: Iraq Rape and Murders May Have Caused Soldiers (none / 0) (#19)
    by Rick B on Wed Jul 05, 2006 at 08:08:54 PM EST
    The above comments are very much what I was hoping for when I posted mine. Like Scribe, I am trying to make sense of this extremely nasty event. cmpnwtr I can't find the AP article you mention that says the personality disorder is "Antisocial Personality Disorder", though that is what I would expect. Can you provide a link to that AP article? And if you are a clinician, are there any indicators that would give a hint that this kid had that problem when he was being recruited? My experience with the Army is that one reason for requiring that recruits have an earned high school diploma rather than simply a GED. Last year the Army started accepting high school dropouts and arranging for them to get GEDs, then they lowered the quota and still didn't make the lowered one. Scribe, Thanks for explaining what had to be done to arrest him. I also read somewhere that since the news of the event had come out, the authorities decided there was a chance he would run, so they had to get him under control quickly. I always just thought a couple of MPs would deliver orders to active duty along with a set of handcuffs. But it may just look quick because they felt they had to move quick to be sure to get him. The black eye caused by first discharging him and then letting him escape would be a PR nightmare that is just as well avoided. As for letting lower quality people into the military, if the Bush administration were serious about fighting in Iraq and not just playing domestic politics with an unnecessary foreign war, there would have been a draft and an expanded Army rather than lowered recruiting standards. Lowered recruiting standards give you Pfc Green and Lindy Englund of Abu Ghraib fame. [Both cases also demonstrate shocking failures of command and control, also. That goes straight back to Rumsfeld and his hand-picked Generals.] As for how valid Green's psych discharge was, I suspect that the rape/murder was the evidence that told someone he had an antisocial personality disorder. Like my ex-wife with the undiagnosed (except by me - I kept a diary) Narcissistic Personality Disorder, the symptoms do not jump out at you in the clinical situation. You have to live around them. Anyone with a properly diagnosed ADHD child can tell you that. (Simply putting them on ritilan and saying they are ADHD if their behavior improves is not a proper diagnosis. You have to get the described behavior from parents, teachers, and others who observe over a period of time. That does not normally include physicians.) That's why I feel relatively certain that his discharge was part of a cover up effort. Otherwise they would have just framed him for being gay. They knew EXACTLY why they were getting rid of him. As for who knew what he had done, as I said above there was everyone in the platoon, the first sergeant, the company commander, someone in Bn Personnel who wrote the initial diagnosis, the Bn XO and probably the Bn Commander. They all knew exactly. And they all knew well before the kidnapping/torture/beheading of the two soldiers. The timing of the discharge and the reason for it are between them a dead giveaway. Discharging Green at eleven months would not have been done on a wink-and-a-nod and "I trust your word." But it's pretty clear that it didn't go much above that, because the whole flap when the two soldiers were kidnapped involved the entire Army apparatus in that region. Putting 4000 to 6000 troops into a highly publicized search for those guys says the higher-ups did NOT know the background of that platoon. rogan1313, I'd guess that the answer to your question of why the kidnappers didn't advertise the reasons for what they did was that it was a traditional family-to-family revenge operation. They knew who had done the rape/murder, and the members of the Airborne platoon knew exactly why the kidnappings occurred. It wasn't part of the war to the kidnappers. It was a revenge killing. And it was a well-deserved one, if you want my opinion. Keep in mind that the ground army is the only social institution in the world designed to take control of a large patch of ground which has no effective government. But that doesn't mean that there aren't traditional methods available to families that were used before armies existed, and as can be seen in this case, are still used. The invasion of Iraq and the idiotic NeoCon free market anti-government ideology espoused by Norquist and applied by Jerry Bremer and the Heritage Foundation ideologues of the CPA destroyed all local forms of justice administration. As blind ideologues, they didn't have any idea what they were destroying or what the results would be, but anyone with a lick of sense could predict this. Green's not the only sociopath with a rifle in Iraq, either. He's just one of the younger and more stupid ones. Gee. I guess the free market released from government controls can't do everything, can it? It couldn't stop Green's horrible crime, and it couldn't punish it in any civilized manner. And neither could the US Army Airborne.

    Re: Iraq Rape and Murders May Have Caused Soldiers (none / 0) (#20)
    by Edger on Wed Jul 05, 2006 at 08:39:32 PM EST

    Rick B,

    July 5, 2006, 10:02PM Ex-GI Accused in Iraq Rape Had Rocky Past

    A former Army private accused of raping an Iraqi woman and killing her and three family members was a high-school dropout from a broken home who enlisted to get some direction in his life, yet was sent home early because of an "anti-social personality disorder."
    Re: Iraq Rape and Murders May Have Caused Soldiers (none / 0) (#21)
    by Edger on Wed Jul 05, 2006 at 09:14:59 PM EST
    The AP article states:
    He was deployed to Iraq from September 2005 to April 2006 as an infantry soldier in B Company, 1st Battalion of the 502nd Infantry Regiment, which is part of the 101st Airborne Division, based at Fort Campbell, Ky. It was there that he was sent to patrol the so-called "Triangle of Death," an area southwest of Baghdad known for its frequent roadside bombings. Military officials say more than 40 percent of the nearly 1,000 soldiers in the region have been treated for mental or emotional anxiety. Green was apparently one of them.
    What's to be expected sending guys like Green, who has only his GED, and was only able to enlist because of the army's lowered recruitment standards, to an area like this? I wonder if his medical or even just social history shows anti-social personality disorder prior to his enlistment, and if the recruiters knew about it when they signed him. The article concludes with:
    "That may be something that a federal court, in punishing upon conviction, might consider extenuating," Silliman said. "But is it in any way a legal excuse for what he's been charged with? No."
    I would think that if the recruiters knew of his psychiatric problems when they signed him, that it also may, or should, be something considered extenuating. There are many uncomfortable questions. IMO Green is not solely responsible.

    Re: Iraq Rape and Murders May Have Caused Soldiers (none / 0) (#22)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Jul 05, 2006 at 10:02:51 PM EST
    scribe, the "guilty conscience" of the soldiers was over the mutilation deaths of two fellow soldiers, not the deaths in the Iraqi family. In other words, soldiers felt responsible for "blowback." At least, that was the import of some of the early reporting, that some of the soldiers themselves believed the killing of their two comrads was retaliation. The NYTimes later backed away from this angle and reported that there was "no evidence" that the killing of the two soldiers was retaliatory. Green will get the death penalty if military command is not implicated as an accessory after the fact. The United States would be thrilled to portray Green as a grotesque freelancing Capt. Kurz, because the public would be more likely to allow justice to be done, which the Iraqis want. The most interesting part of this story will be the reaction of the American public, which has insisted on carte blanche for any evil doer in uniform.

    Re: Iraq Rape and Murders May Have Caused Soldiers (none / 0) (#23)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jul 06, 2006 at 09:16:28 AM EST
    Hate to be the schoolmarm, but someone has to be, because words and their precise usage are important: combat soldiers are not "kidnapped." They are captured. They are taken as prisoners of war. They may become executed and/or beheaded prisoners of war, but the operative word is war. Killing and capturing prisoners is the whole point. Capturing them first, and then torturing, and killing, also seems to be quite common practice among the US military (it's been in a couple of papers). Every time someone uses the word "kidnapped" to refer to a captured American (or Israeli) soldier, it is loaded with the obvious intent to suggest a kind of innocent-victim status. Sorry, you're in a war; you're killing other people, sometimes capturing them, sometimes torturing, sometimes raping them, whatever. And there are those on the other side, whose job description is to kill or capture you. If you don't like it, don't play the game. Live by the sword... The most-oft misused word is "terrorist." Funny how the other guys are always the terrorists. But, when you are in their country, killing people, and then they kill you, how can they be terrorists? That would make George Washington a terrorist. Any rational person cannot agree. It's that other George who is the true terrorist - not the old English king, but the little Yalie boy who would be king.

    Re: Iraq Rape and Murders May Have Caused Soldiers (none / 0) (#24)
    by Edger on Thu Jul 06, 2006 at 10:29:33 AM EST
    There are many uncomfortable questions. IMO Green is not solely responsible. bumbaclatt -
    It's that other George who is the true terrorist - not the old English king, but the little Yalie boy who would be king.
    Yes. Exactly...

    Re: Iraq Rape and Murders May Have Caused Soldiers (none / 0) (#25)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jul 06, 2006 at 10:38:40 AM EST
    I just want to thank scribe and Rick B for their remarkably cogent analysis. In particular, Rick B's observation that elegantly brackets the scope of a possible coverup: Discharging Green at eleven months would not have been done on a wink-and-a-nod and "I trust your word." But it's pretty clear that it didn't go much above that, because the whole flap when the two soldiers were kidnapped involved the entire Army apparatus in that region. Putting 4000 to 6000 troops into a highly publicized search for those guys says the higher-ups did NOT know the background of that platoon. Very nice.

    Re: Iraq Rape and Murders May Have Caused Soldiers (none / 0) (#26)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Jul 10, 2006 at 05:30:32 PM EST
    deleted

    Iraq Rape and Murders May Have Caused Soldiers' Kidnappings, Beheadings | 25 comments (25 topical)