Localone I believe asked if there was any other kind of rape besides "forcible," and yes, in PA anyway, nonconsensual sexual intercourse is a 2nd degree felony. No force necessary. Person says no. That's where the injuries come in. If the victim has an injury, you can say force was used and it's 1st degree rape. Without an injury (or a weapon) how are you going to prove force? So you go to 2nd degree rape.

fillin, how does Bunny Hole fit into all of that?

fillin, you are correct re Angel's. I just checked Shelton's report. So Bunny Hole just have contractual relations with Angel's too.

The three players that she positively identified were the fourth, fifth, and seventh pictures that she saw. These are the only three positive identifications that were made.

I think both reports are well written - maybe too well written. On my own, I probably would have had misspelled words.

Meanwhile, a lacrosse hearing previously scheduled for Monday has been pushed back to the week of July 17 at the request of defense lawyers.

[snip]

Thomas said Thursday that he and other lawyers wanted Monday's hearing postponed because it conflicted with travel plans some had made for the Fourth of July holiday.

"Mr. Nifong gave us only five working days' notice on that schedule," Thomas said. "We weren't consulted on the date, which was in the middle of what many consider to be a four-day holiday weekend."

The lawyers, Thomas Manning of Raleigh and Bob Ekstrand of Durham, representing lacrosse player Frederick Krom Jr., and Bill Thomas of Durham, representing Bruce Edward Thompson, asked a judge to quash two subpoenas issued by Nifong May 31.

the last time i checked, suborning perjury was a criminal offense.

the cell phone calls could have been made by anyone, not just the owner. in the absence of of witnesses who will swear that's who they talked to, it bears little weight.;

the atm records are, again, not conclusive, unless accompanied by time/date stamped photographs, showing the accused as the one using it.;

as the one the dorm entry records. again, not compelling in and of itself, unless accompanied by either time/date stamped photos, or eyewitnesses who can place the accused in the dorm at the time/date noted.

the most compelling, at least for the moment, is the cab driver's eyewitness testimony, as to the whereabouts of the accused, and his records should support this.

This is not defense "spin." And these facts strongly suggest that the accuser could well be lying - and thus that it might well be suborning perjury for the D.A. to put her on the stand.

to inmyhumbleopinion

You don't know if Wellington talked Reade after 12:14am.

Wellington could have talked to Reade before 12:14am.

Wellington could have been talking to Reade (that's how he found out that "we were both tired from playing golf") when Reade was redialing his g/f.

Its only after 12:14 that Reade told Wellington he called a cab

2. I was at the lacrosse party at 61 0 N. Buchanan Blvd. in Durham, NC on March 13 running over to March 14, 2006. After the two women danced for a few minutes in the main livingroom, they then left the main living room.

3. Shortly thereafter, I then left the residence through the back door and talked to Reade. As, I went out the back door, I did not see or hear anything unusual. Once outside, I saw Reade, who appeared normal in all respects. We were both tired from playing golf that afternoon, and we had practice the next day. In addition the dancers had stopped dancing and were obviously impaired when they left the main living room. Reade said he had just called a cab and asked if I wanted to leave with him.

If he was standing there with Reade discussing golf and practice and watching him dial his girlfriend's number, why did Reade have to tell him he just called a cab?

Perhaps Wellington could not hear because of the noise level generated by Seligmann's participation in a vicious and violent sexual assault in the bathroom.

He's totally innocent. It's totally not Collin, anybody that knows Collin, he's a very gentle boy and it's not within his character at all.

until she can explain how "a very gentle boy" was charged with assult in DC

It seems impossible that not a single juror, among twelve, would find the evidence to raise a reasonable doubt.

"It was an argument between two young guys who were sizing each other up," she said. "Both sides had an equal portion of discussion, so we felt it wasn't specifically a hate crime. So we waived the option there."

Finnerty's parents on NBC claim he was at a restaurant, have phone records, witnesses, and commercial receipt.

Do any of the attorneys have thoughts on why Stevens has done this for the players? When in court, he seemed to be siding with Nifong over other matters. Does lowering the bond send any message of the direction of this case?

According to police reports, Finnerty, Dagnes and Bonnano punched and beat Jeff Bloxsom and Scott Herndon early on Nov. 5 after showering them with anti-gay remarks.

Bloxsom, who is not gay, yelled back. The fight left Bloxsom with a bruised chin and busted lip.

The case was suspended after Finnerty agreed to pay Bloxsom's medical bills, perform community service and stay out of trouble for six months.

If convicted, Finnerty could be sentenced to up to six months in jail and a fine of up to $1,000.

Finnerty is "a very gentle boy" and Bloxsom is a "the loser."

Did Nifong raise any objections to the bail reductions?

I think the reduction in the bonds is an indication of Stevens' perception of the strength of Nifong's case, based on the documents he has seen thus far.

we were told there was force, and that the AV struggled and fought back. How much force, and the extent of the struggle, is unknown.

Republican lawyer fails to earn spot on ballot in Durham DA race

The parents of one of three Duke University men's lacrosse players charged with raping a woman at a team party said their son has evidence to prove his innocence and has passed a polygraph test indicating he didn't commit the crime. In an interview with NBC's "Today" that aired Friday, Kevin Finnerty would not reveal specifics of his son's alibi. But he mentioned the cell phone records of his son, Collin Finnerty, at the time in question and electronic records showing when his son returned to his dormitory that night.

Further, at this point I'm not sure what good it is doing to hold back on CF's alibi.

Thomas said Thursday that he and other lawyers wanted Monday's hearing postponed because it conflicted with travel plans some had made for the Fourth of July holiday.

The only reason I can think of for holding back is what T&T said re not getting in trouble with the DC court over alcohol.

Imho, your post of 6:52 am was fair and reasonable and useful. What has gotten into you?

and has his head buried up his you know what

He thinks she's telling the truth that she was raped. [snip] Nifong's obviously misguided and has his head buried up his you know what but to suggest that he would knowingly encourage false testimony is going a bit far.

Posted by Newport June 30, 2006 12:47 PM

Suborning perjury will never wash. Nifong's not going to tell her to lie on the stand. He thinks she's telling the truth that she was raped. She's a little mixed up on the details but that's just trauma etc. She can explain that away. Nifong's obviously misguided [and has his head buried up his you know what] but to suggest that he would knowingly encourage false testimony is going a bit far.

Newport, I hate to say this, but methinks you're being a little dopey, yourself, here. Are you medicating yourself to get an early start on the weekend, by any chance.

cpinva posted: the cell phone calls could have been made by anyone, not just the owner. in the absence of of witnesses who will swear that's who they talked to, it bears little weight.;

I agree. By the lengths of the calls and the number of redials, I doubt he spoke to anyone. He may have left messages.

Though he may have been a fair guy in the past, this case is a long way from traffic court.

But, all that being said, I do think he "believes" the FA despite all the reasons for not doing so.

Maybe the FA in person comes off as incredibly sincere. I don't know because I haven't seen her. Some patheological liars come off as sincere. They are good at lying.

Thus, I do not believe that he would be suborning perjury by the mere act of putting the FA on the stand. I further don't believe that he will tell her to lie. She can do that all by herself and doesn't need Nifong's encouragement.