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Wednesday Open Thread

Here's an open thread for you all (except Duke which will get it's own.)

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    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#1)
    by scribe on Wed Jun 21, 2006 at 12:01:47 PM EST
    Interesting way of dealing with extremist politicians: Catherine Deneuve was the guest of honor at the Woerthersee Festival, in Austria. She was at a press conference at the festival when the Carinthia (Austria) State Governor, Joerg Haider unexpectedly showed up. Haider, some might remember, was at one point a national politician in Austria and, more importantly, expressed (and represents a party with) a disturbing fondness for Nazism and associated ideologies. Deneuve walked out, saying of Haider "I want nothing to do with this person" and that she would not appear in public in the same place as Haider, let alone stand for a photo with him. She also noted she does the same for Jean-Marie Le Pen, the French right-winger. Would that more 'murcan artists and entertainers did likewise for our right-wingers....

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#2)
    by Dadler on Wed Jun 21, 2006 at 12:18:25 PM EST
    Remember when the commies were bad, and the muslims were good? Remember when for household skin burns they recommended putting butter on them? (Gravy anyone? A fork?) Remember wax paper straws? Or Henry Aaron? How about Champale? "The pleasure of champagne, the convenience of a can?" I once read about a lawsuit where someone was suing a mortuary for incomplete cremation services. That sounds messy. "Um, I don't mean to complain, but grampa's still a little pink inside. And are those giblets?" How can they charge you for shipping AND handling? Can you ship something WITHOUT handling it? Do they just levitate the sh*t onto the trucks? Alright, I have to go back to work. Remember to tip your waitresses. And try the brisket, it's wonderful.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#3)
    by squeaky on Wed Jun 21, 2006 at 12:32:09 PM EST
    'They all look the same to me' seems to be not only au courant in Iraq, but is here as well. When that mentality intersects with the patriot act injustice is almost guaranteed.
    On June 26, three Kurdish men in Harrisonburg, Virginia (Rasheed Qambari, Ahmed Abdullah, and Amir Rashid) will be sentenced for sending money to Iraqi Kurdistan without a license to their families and those of fellow members of their community via the traditional hawala system (a fourth man, Fadhil Noroly, will be tried on July 11). This is a felony offense under amendments to the Patriot Act introduced after 9/11. Prior to 1996 these men, and most of the 70 Kurdish families now living in Harrisonburg in the Shenandoah Valley, were involved with aiding US and UK aid organizations. In that year Saddam Hussein attempted to have them arrested and killed (he succeeded with many who did not get out). The US government airlifted about 6500 of them out to Turkey as part of Operation Pacific Haven. After extensive security vetting in Guam, many were allowed to immigrate as refugees into the US, with this group ending up in Harrisonburg. These people were anti-Saddam and anti-terrorism, literally dancing in the streets at his overthrow.
    Sad. link
    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#4)
    by jondee on Wed Jun 21, 2006 at 01:14:46 PM EST
    The con (as in neocon, we know about the other con) comes from their underlying, recalcitrant "the more things change, the more they stay the same" mentality/wish. Hence Davis, Boot and others constant litany about Thucydides, the campaigns of Alexander, Sparta, the beatified Winston Churchill. In the end it all amounts to PNAC, war party, "regime change" propagandizing by an elite Straussian philosopher class that clings to an endlessly cynical, endless-war (and endless oppurtunity to capitalize) view of history because the staus-quo has done well by them. Ruthless self-interest and animal cunning is the best that you can expect from these people. Darwin with the gloves off.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#5)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Jun 21, 2006 at 01:27:09 PM EST
    On another subect entirely, The Republicans have made "Cut and Run" their snappy slogan to portray the Dems as cowards. I have heard many descriptions of the Republican/Administration policy on the war as "sit and watch". Why don't we start to call them the Sit and Watch Party? Just as catchy IMO.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#6)
    by roy on Wed Jun 21, 2006 at 01:49:38 PM EST
    The Repubs aren't so much "watching" as "spinning"...

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#7)
    by kdog on Wed Jun 21, 2006 at 01:55:41 PM EST
    They are watchin', they are spinnin'...but most of all they are cashing in. The liquidation of America. And Dadler...I'm pretty sure the commies are still bad, but the Somali warlords are back in the "good guy" tent.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#8)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Jun 21, 2006 at 02:01:49 PM EST
    OK, Sit and Spin then.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#9)
    by Jlvngstn on Wed Jun 21, 2006 at 02:02:32 PM EST
    I like sit and spend better.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#10)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Jun 21, 2006 at 02:07:42 PM EST
    Personally I am quite surprised that tha conservatives are being so open about their firm grasp on tha reins of power. I wonder what tha rest of tha world will think when all of what has occurred since tha national election of 2000 and all of tha subsequent changes in American Foreign Policy by this executive are finally evaluated. Will we still be considered the beacon of Liberty and Democracy or will we be considered a Feudalistic theocracy that believes that our leaders have a Divine Right to Rule.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#11)
    by squeaky on Wed Jun 21, 2006 at 02:20:32 PM EST
    Spin & Spend

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#12)
    by Punchy on Wed Jun 21, 2006 at 02:29:25 PM EST
    Why don't we start to call them the Sit and Watch Party? I've heard "Lie and Die", and "Wait as Bait"...

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#13)
    by Jlvngstn on Wed Jun 21, 2006 at 02:36:13 PM EST
    I think you have it Squeaky.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#14)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Jun 21, 2006 at 02:59:34 PM EST
    Seeing as how nobody has commented on this (but me), and TL has totally ignored it...I'll bring it up again.. on an open thread: Anybody care (dare?) comment about the computer documents recently acquired when Zarqawi was killed? The documents from Zarqawi to his gang that basically said they are "losing" the war and need to get America involved somewhere else (Iran?) to take the pressure off them in Iraq? I'm sure most will (or have already) passed it off as GW propaganda? But let's just say for the sake of argument...it's true! That will sure put the hurt on how most of you lefties have perceived things won't it? So much for the liberal news & the liberal lefts 'spin' on the war huh?

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#15)
    by roy on Wed Jun 21, 2006 at 03:04:03 PM EST
    Spin & Spend
    Sort of a political See n' Say? "The electorate goes 'baaaah'"

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#16)
    by desertswine on Wed Jun 21, 2006 at 03:06:29 PM EST
    Bah!! Lie and Spy

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#17)
    by kdog on Wed Jun 21, 2006 at 03:42:37 PM EST
    Think BB. Could Zarq be pleading for more money, more weapons, more men? He was on the outs with a lot of the terror crowd. Besides, I'm more inclined to listen to the security adviser to the Iraqi PM, who said a withdrawal of troops would likely improve security and quell violence in Iraq, than the ravings of a madman. There's no victory brother.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#18)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Jun 21, 2006 at 03:45:08 PM EST
    But let's just say for the sake of argument...it's true! That will sure put the hurt on how most of you lefties have perceived things won't it?
    I'm glad I'm on holiday.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#20)
    by soccerdad on Wed Jun 21, 2006 at 04:16:42 PM EST
    Missile defense may be on, but there's nobody home from the arms control wonk
    In these particular circumstances, when we say that missile defense is "on," maybe it's that the troops at the deployment sites are on full alert. Maybe it's that we have ships in-theater monitoring the situation. Or maybe it's that, like with much of missile defense, we're relying on smoke, mirrors, and vaguely worded statements to mask what we can't do.


    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#21)
    by squeaky on Wed Jun 21, 2006 at 04:17:40 PM EST
    Digby is dirging about our lost souls in Iraq, and rightly so. S/he links to this tragic post by Arthur Silber. The context is the Amnesty 19, all Republicans, who think that those killing our troops should now be given a pass. She quotes a letter from a soldier:
    Instead of resolutions that honor those who are trying to kill us, these senators, these congressmen should devote their efforts, their words, their very lives to try and figure out how we can extricate ourselves from this war.
    I agree with Digby that talk of Amnesty is OK only after we withdraw, which should have been yesterday as far as I am concerned.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#22)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Jun 21, 2006 at 04:28:58 PM EST
    Suicide in the Trenches I knew a simple soldier boy Who grinned at life in empty joy, Slept soundly through the lonesome dark, And whistled early with the lark. In winter trenches, cowed and glum, With crumps and lice and lack of rum, He put a bullet through his brain. No one spoke of him again. You smug-faced crowds with kindling eye Who cheer when soldier lads march by, Sneak home and pray you'll never know The hell where youth and laughter go. Siegfried Sassoon. 1918

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#23)
    by squeaky on Wed Jun 21, 2006 at 04:57:20 PM EST
    Pedant? Please quit talking about Dark Avenger.
    Does this sound like a pedant to you?
    Todayy eye havve sum timee too kil, whil wating four mi bel pepppers too gett doone inn thee dehidrator. eyell' bee sendinng themm too mi cousin in Quinlin, Txs., shee tolded mi yesterrdayy thee pricce four them is outrageos, soo I doo watt eye cann too helpp hher outt inn thiss arrea. Gladd eye couldd gett u gigglingg againn, PPJay, u were awfullyy grumpyy yesterrday, didd sumeone putt meann pils inn ur Postumm orr sumthing?
    This on the other hand is quite pedantic:
    DA - That's quite a lisp you have developed there. Have you sought medical attention, or are you just trying to avoid being called on spelling, grammar and typing errors?
    link

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#24)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Jun 21, 2006 at 06:15:40 PM EST
    Squeaky - I dunno. The second sounds dumb and the first sounds dumber. BTW - Ready to debate Juan Cole, or have you chickened out?

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#25)
    by jimcee on Wed Jun 21, 2006 at 06:52:34 PM EST
    Jondee, do you mean Victor Davis Hanson? If you are going to trash someone you could at least get his name right when you do. Et al, Has anyone here ever heard anything about the 'mobbing behaviour' theory? I find that it is kind of interesting of late.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#26)
    by jondee on Wed Jun 21, 2006 at 07:25:25 PM EST
    jimcee - Yeah thats right. A bit of the dyslexia. Having doled out a few of late yourself, you should know that as far as "trashings" go, that was fairly mild. And maybe in Hansons case redundant.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#27)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Jun 21, 2006 at 07:28:46 PM EST
    "I hate to say this", said my attorney as we sat down at the Merry-Go-Round bar on the second balcony, "but this place is getting to me. I think I'm getting The Fear." "Nonsense," I said. "We came out here to find the American Dream, and now that were right in the vortex you want to quit." I grabbed his bicep and squeezed. "You must realize," I said, "that we've found the main nerve." "I know", he said. "Thats what gives me The Fear."
    HST Fear & Loathing In Las Vegas -a little escapism with an old favorite book is one of the most effective missile deterrent systems I know. better days.... Raoul Duke

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#28)
    by squeaky on Wed Jun 21, 2006 at 07:30:48 PM EST
    Maybe if Feingold and Obama go to the same finishing school that Bush went to in order to learn how to speak with a Texas accent and look like he just got off a horse, they could win in 08. That would bring back american prestige in the world. I can hear it now 'only in America.' WOW.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#29)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Jun 21, 2006 at 07:31:34 PM EST
    bugger the html

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#30)
    by squeaky on Wed Jun 21, 2006 at 07:39:54 PM EST
    Nice catch scribe. I have always loved Catherine Deneuve. I can almost taste "Belle du Jour", as I type.
    Deneuve walked out, saying of Haider "I want nothing to do with this person" and that she would not appear in public in the same place as Haider, let alone stand for a photo with him. She also noted she does the same for Jean-Marie Le Pen, the French right-winger.
    And Brigitte Bardot loves Le Pen and probably Haider. She is a PETA freak, would save a poodle before a Muslim or Jew . It is lucky when talent and humanity match up in the same person. A rare thing indeed.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#31)
    by squeaky on Wed Jun 21, 2006 at 08:24:22 PM EST
    This is not good, but also not totally unexpected. Roberts whittingly advanced the lie leading up to the war. He now has the power to cover it up. The war crimes panel will deal with him later.
    YES, PAT ROBERTS WILL INDEED SUCCEED IN DEEP-SIXING PROBE INTO MANIPULATION OF IRAQ WAR INTEL. A couple months back I wrote that Pat Roberts, the Republican chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, had failed to live up to a promise made in his own press release to deliver a draft of the controversial "public statements" part of the probe into prewar intel failures to other members of the committee by April 5.
    Greg Sargent

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#32)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Jun 21, 2006 at 08:43:35 PM EST
    Squeaky - What? No words of Juan Cole to debate? Guess you have withdrawn from the field of battle.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#33)
    by squeaky on Wed Jun 21, 2006 at 09:11:35 PM EST
    ppj- A Rove wannabe, always making with pathetic spin, The ball is in your court regarding Cole. Perhaps you have forgotten the last little discussion we had after you viciously smeared Cole without ever having read him as a primary source. Remember your lame defense for never reading Cole? Something about once being is some lit class where you only read secondary texts and not the primary one. Boy, that was a knee-slapper. Ball's in your court. Feel free to review our prior discussion before starting in on your homework.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#34)
    by jondee on Wed Jun 21, 2006 at 09:22:47 PM EST
    He must have some really juicy slime to pass on or he wouldnt be making such an issue out of it. Maybe he even read it this time.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#36)
    by squeaky on Wed Jun 21, 2006 at 09:40:26 PM EST
    Maybe he even read it this time.
    Unlikely Jondee. He just reads the latest likudian digest to get his talking points, then argues without having to read anything else. When he gets caught out he just shuts up fot a while. The bluff of a lazy man.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#37)
    by squeaky on Wed Jun 21, 2006 at 09:44:06 PM EST
    pendantic
    low hanging fruit.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#38)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jun 22, 2006 at 05:31:14 AM EST
    A comment in an open thread at TalkLeft reminded me of this poem by Siegfried Sassoon, who fought for Britain in World War I and was one of the most famous of the war poets:
    On this; Hillary Clinton,Bush, Iraq and Gitmo; more from Arthur Silber.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#39)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jun 22, 2006 at 06:34:32 AM EST
    "My children take up serpants and I worry because I'm a mother." For the past eighty years, believers living in the Appalachian hills of the south-eastern US have incorporated handling serpents and drinking strychnine (a "salvation cocktail") into their religious beliefs and practice. A fascinating social insight in this twenty minute audio.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#40)
    by squeaky on Thu Jun 22, 2006 at 08:19:40 AM EST
    Speaking of snakes (no not that one)
    Colbert takes a shot at some Republican nuts who draw on ridiculous analogies to attack gay marriage.
    Very funny. A nice compliment to OW's snake movie. C&L

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#41)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Jun 22, 2006 at 10:43:42 AM EST
    Dark Avenger - You're just so talented. Squeaky - Nice try at dodging, but I merely linked to the article. You are the one who got all in a tizzy about the article, so I would say you are the one to prove the article incorrect. Here is the article. Among its claims:
    The chairman and CEO of this imaginary Zionist cabal is Israeli premier and Likud leader Ariel Sharon, whom Cole despises--so much so that he cannot bring himself to refer to Sharon without resorting to the vilest invectives. He is the butcher of Beirut, a mafia don, war criminal, land grabber, starver of children, and so on. "Couldn't he shut his enormous pie hole[?]" Cole wonders of Sharon. "Apparently [Bush] has fallen for a line from the neo-cons in his administration that they can deliver the Jewish vote to him in 2004 if only he kisses Sharon's ass," he writes in another post. And all this comes from a historian priding himself on his dispassionate and evenhanded approach.
    Now, I became interested in this because of my belief that our involvement in the ME, outside of Israel, has not been negative enough towards the nation states in the region to cause their ignoring the formation of al-Qaida and other terrorist groups. Indeed, they have found themselves riding the back of a tiger. So, there must be something else, and that obviously has to be US support for Israel. Plainer. They were willing to risk the problems of terrorist groups as long as the terrorist hold Israel as a common enemy. Now, one of the claims of the article is that:
    Cole's discussion of U.S. foreign policy frequently veers toward conspiratorial anti-Semitism. This is hardly the "informed" commentary Cole claims it to be.
    The previous quote certainly appears to prove that is true. Your turn.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#42)
    by soccerdad on Thu Jun 22, 2006 at 10:54:17 AM EST
    Historians can have opinions. PPJ your approach is the old criticise Israel and you are and anti-semite. The fact is that many of the neocons of the Bush administration had direct ties with the Likud party. Perle even wrote the original paper which has laid out Sharon's strategy. As far as calling Sharon the buthcer of Beirut, my friend who was a tank commnader in the Israeli army also calls Sharon a butcher and many worse things than that. So as usual you take one quote put it in the context of quotes of other people who are out to smear Cole and we are supposed to take you seriously. You are such a transparent hack.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#43)
    by soccerdad on Thu Jun 22, 2006 at 11:03:24 AM EST
    BTW a link to A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm look who participated in this Richard Perle, James Colbert, Charles Fairbanks, Jr., Douglas Feith, Robert Loewenberg, David Wurmser, and Meyrav Wurmser gee its a who's who of the Bush administration

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#44)
    by squeaky on Thu Jun 22, 2006 at 11:15:59 AM EST
    but I merely linked to the article
    You did not merely link to an article you smeared someone who you know nothing about. That is a cowardly response, not a bit surprising. Odd that is exactly what the Catholic press did for the Nazis. They merely wrote about Jewish blood rites, they never supported the Nazis. Right. Your continual attempt to smear an academic that you have never read and than ask for others to debate your pals is also cowardly, dishonest and reprehensible. I have no interest in discussing your yellow journalism links. They are not worthy of any consideration. Once again you change the subject as a cover to hide your own inability to read and understand anything but smear digests intended to shut down debate. If you want to discuss Juan Cole's writing you have to read his writing. Anything less proves you to be nothing more than a dishonest hack intent to foster meaningless debate.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#45)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jun 22, 2006 at 11:19:09 AM EST
    I'm asking for opinions as to the accuracy of the information in the following statement, from 2003.
    Published: 09/10/2003 The USA Patriot Act and its Impact on Nonprofit Organizations The Department of Justice has dismissed concerns of librarians that this represents an affront to the Constitution. Mark Corallo, a DOJ spokesman, said -- in spite of facts to the contrary -- that, "This is limited only to foreign intelligence, and U.S. citizens cannot be investigated under this act," according to Florida Today (9/23/02). He also described librarians' opposition as "absurd," wrongly stating that the Patriot Act "doesn't apply to the average American." (Journal News, 4/13/03) To further downplay the matter, another DOJ official cited an "informal" survey of field offices, which found that "libraries have been contacted approximately 50 times, based on articulable suspicion or voluntary calls from librarians regarding suspicious activity." Of course, this was later contradicted by the Library Research Center.


    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#46)
    by squeaky on Thu Jun 22, 2006 at 11:22:55 AM EST
    Doesn't this sentence answer your question, rumi?
    Mark Corallo, a DOJ spokesman, said -


    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#47)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jun 22, 2006 at 11:38:19 AM EST
    Ava's latest video is up at C&L. What is the world comming to when it takes a fifteen year old kid to tell it like it is?

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#48)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jun 22, 2006 at 11:39:27 AM EST
    Squeaky- I know that name sounds familiar, but I can't seem to place it. I'm thinking I need to keep wandering around the 'ol memory hole....fascinating remarks from back then.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#49)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jun 22, 2006 at 12:32:14 PM EST
    Civil war, death squads, kidnaping, car bombs, rape, each and every day ... Iraq has become the most dangerous place on earth. American soldiers and private security companies regularly kill people and leave the bodies lying in the street; US-trained Iraqi military and police forces kill even more, as does the insurgency. An entire new generation is growing up on violence and sectarian ethics; this will poison the Iraqi psyche for many years to come.
    This taken from a far longer list described in this Counterpunch article. Nice one Dubya.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#50)
    by squeaky on Thu Jun 22, 2006 at 01:24:46 PM EST
    Thinking about Zarwaqi and Saddam can lead to a horrible but not implausible conclusion. We picked a young 22 year old thug off the streets of Baghdad in 1959 in order to oust the pro soviet regime of General Qassim. His name was Saddam Hussain. The creation of Zarwaqi also served American interests. After failing to justify attacking Iraq because of WMDs we claimed that Saddam was aligned with al-Qaida, the terror organization that allegedly killed close to 3000 people on 9/11. Zarwaqi was the proof. It did not matter that he has nothing to do with OBL and was, like Saddam, was just a minor street thug. The fictional beginning of al-Zarwaqi may have just as well ended in fiction as the US military are fully in charge of the implausibe finale. I wouldn't be surprised if the body produced to give its last dying breaths as a grand martyr, was not Zarwaqi at all. DNA tests?? Ha. The real Zarwaqi, if he actually existed at all, has been paid off by his US military producers, and is now living a life of luxury, much like a retired movie star, in Dubai or some other luxuriously cosy corner of the planet. Given that our Psyops program is the gold standard of all time by a longshot, this theory is entirely plausible.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#51)
    by jimcee on Thu Jun 22, 2006 at 01:34:18 PM EST
    I find the anti-Israel folks an odd bunch, first they really don't know much about the founding of Jewish Palestine and secondly never hold Jordan or Syria responsible for thier rejection of the Palestinians by keeping them out of thier countries and in the Palestian Territories. And the other thing I find strange is how many sycophants of Cole hate the idea of democracies in the ME. Why do they hate democracy? I guess if you think Juan Cole is not anti-Israel and not of questionable authority then it isn't that suprising. And yes Squeaky I have read Prof. Cole's screeds. Jondee, why yes I have done some trashing lately and I like to get the names spelled correctly when I do. Remember it is not what is printed about you that is important it is that they spell your name right when they do.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#52)
    by soccerdad on Thu Jun 22, 2006 at 01:56:08 PM EST
    And the other thing I find strange is how many sycophants of Cole hate the idea of democracies in the ME
    who? a link would be nice there are a lot of people who believe it is nearly impossible to just startup democracies in the ME. That it would take a long time. but thats different that hating Democracies. So who hates democracies? Or you just blowing smoke?

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#53)
    by squeaky on Thu Jun 22, 2006 at 01:59:17 PM EST
    OK jimcee
    And yes Squeaky I have read Prof. Cole's screeds.
    Gee wiz jimcee, what is it that you have read. Snippets, linked to from right wing smear machines? Or have you been following him for some time now on your own? Do you care to talk about which things you have read are so, er, dictator supporting anti semitic? Nice smear. Brushing up on casual innuendo these days, eh?

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#54)
    by desertswine on Thu Jun 22, 2006 at 02:59:06 PM EST
    As an aside, Veteran for Peace Kris Kristofferson turns 70 today. Time do fly. "So help me, Jesus, I know what I am."

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#55)
    by John Mann on Thu Jun 22, 2006 at 03:01:17 PM EST
    Link From the article:
    Fifty years after Hungary's revolt against communism, President Bush said Thursday that war-weary Iraqis can learn from this country's long and bloody struggle against tyranny. "Liberty can be delayed but it cannot be denied," the president said.
    I hope those insurgents aren't reading this - if they knew they had encouragement from "the Man" himself, there's no telling what they'd do.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#56)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jun 22, 2006 at 04:45:41 PM EST
    Israel as a country was suggested by a Brit PM, I think 20-30s. And tha Brits in an act of conscience established in 1947/8 tha country of Israel, just as they established tha country of Iraq. Kinda curious that is, that these geographical regions are tha cause of so much international upset. For yall's information, tha Israeli munitions industry is interwoven into our munitions industry, yall should look at a Defense Intelligence Agency roster someday. It's our agency, but we employ Israeli military attache's copiously. Just thought yall's Enquiring minds would like ta know.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#57)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Jun 22, 2006 at 04:46:31 PM EST
    Israel as a country was suggested by a Brit PM, I think 20-30s. And tha Brits in an act of conscience established in 1947/8 tha country of Israel, just as they established tha country of Iraq. Kinda curious that is, that these geographical regions are tha cause of so much international upset. For yall's information, tha Israeli munitions industry is interwoven into our munitions industry, yall should look at a Defense Intelligence Agency roster someday. It's our agency, but we employ Israeli military attache's copiously. Just thought yall's Enquiring minds would like ta know.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#58)
    by Edger on Thu Jun 22, 2006 at 07:04:54 PM EST
    Two interesting, and perhaps for some, eye opening articles today... Muslims and the West: Antipathy and mistrust International Herald Tribune, June 22, 2006
    Westerners and Muslims around the world have radically different views of world events, and each group tends to view the other as violent, intolerant, and lacking respect for women, according to a new international survey of more than 14,000 people in 13 nations. In what the Pew Global Attitudes Project called one of the survey's most striking findings, majorities in Egypt, Indonesia, Jordan, and Turkey - Muslims countries with fairly strong ties to the United States - said, for example, that they did not believe that Arabs carried out the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks on New York and Washington. ... "Whenever the Israelis strike the Palestinians, the international community and the UN turn a blind eye or keep quiet," said Saleh Bayeri, a politician and Muslim community leader in Jos, Nigeria. "But when the Palestinians launch a counterattack, it is condemned by America, the U.K. and other friends of Israel as a terror attack. That is the problem. It shows that the West is biased in dealing with Muslims." ... In the follow-up interviews, the U.S.- led war in Iraq, now in its fourth year, was cited by Muslims and Westerners alike as another primary cause of bad relations. Muslims, in comments reflecting historic tensions with Christianity, described Iraq and the Bush administration's war on terrorism as a "crusade" against Islam, while in the West people said that terrorist attacks by Muslims had undermined trust.
    Former Homeland chief Ridge says terror war will last decades:
    "We looked at security through three prisms, certainly security," Ridge said of his tenure as Homeland Security chief. "But you can't ignore the economic (impact) and you can't ignore the Constitution and he rule of law."


    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#59)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Jun 23, 2006 at 07:50:02 AM EST
    SD writes:
    Historians can have opinions.
    Yes, they certainly do. Squeaky writes:
    I have no interest in discussing your yellow journalism links. They are not worthy of any consideration.
    Shorter - I can't answer your question.
    Squeaky, it is interesting to watch you quiver and shake when someone even asks a question. Yellow journalism? Smear? Well, you did say:
    Posted by Squeaky at September 19, 2005 11:19 PM Rove never needed proof for his smear machine, why should I.


    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#60)
    by soccerdad on Fri Jun 23, 2006 at 07:53:55 AM EST
    And yet PPJ has still not discussed anything by Cole except qoutes from smears. pathetic and vacuous

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#61)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Jun 23, 2006 at 07:55:22 AM EST
    Squeaky writes:
    The real Zarwaqi, if he actually existed at all, has been paid off by his US military producers, and is now living a life of luxury, much like a retired movie star, in Dubai or some other luxuriously cosy corner of the planet.
    Gold standards? That little comment is the new standard. Are you serious? Do you really believe that? If I go back to college, can I interview you for a study??

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#62)
    by squeaky on Fri Jun 23, 2006 at 08:07:44 AM EST
    If I go back to college, can I interview you for a study??
    Don't you have to finish high school first?

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#64)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Jun 23, 2006 at 09:34:32 AM EST
    Squeaky - Nice one. But really, I can see my thesis now: "Rabid forms of Parnoia."

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#65)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Jun 23, 2006 at 09:38:16 AM EST
    Us'ns can't type..... ;-) "Rabid Forms of Paranoia" Dark Avenger - It would jelp.

    Re: Wednesday Open Thread (none / 0) (#66)
    by Edger on Fri Jun 23, 2006 at 09:41:01 AM EST
    DA? Jelp! I nede jelp! Serious jelp!